Guild Wars 2

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

We are guild level 29, and running out of available upgrades. We will be forced to make the Tavern tier 2 soon…but this is not viable. This singular upgrade that grants absolutely nothing in itself costs a horrendous TWELVE THOUSAND flax seed piles if farmed.

This is seriously BS. Please, PLEASE. Fix the expensive upgrades! Find a way to flood the market with Flax and Flax fibers. SEAWEED AS WELL, it only has like 12 spots it spawns and it’s VERY irregular.

Well you will hit the bigger goals the further you go up.

Just buy a part each day and within a month you should be able to get past anything. I would definitely not farm all the seeds yourself.

It’s a big goal now but chipping away on it slowly but diligently works. I know how it feels standing before that big wall and thinking it impossible. Eventually my friend got to putting in a few kegs every day and before we knew it it was done, especially as it kept the goal actively progressing.

It’s definitely not fun though.

Lacuda.8543:

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

We are guild level 29, and running out of available upgrades. We will be forced to make the Tavern tier 2 soon…but this is not viable. This singular upgrade that grants absolutely nothing in itself costs a horrendous TWELVE THOUSAND flax seed piles if farmed.

This is seriously BS. Please, PLEASE. Fix the expensive upgrades! Find a way to flood the market with Flax and Flax fibers. SEAWEED AS WELL, it only has like 12 spots it spawns and it’s VERY irregular.

There are two “flax farm” spots in the game (although I didn’t find out about the TD spot until a few months later than the first). I don’t “actively” play every character I have every day but I do flax farm with them on the two spots. I have 10 characters and now I know where these two farm spots are I can get 250-300ish flax per day in about 30-40 minutes depending upon wyvern interference. If you want to know where these spots are either ask in VB and/or TD map chat or check Dulfy.
Occasionally I will then take one character around malchor’s leap farming elder wood and seaweed and between xx:40 and xx:00 I will try and find a t4+ dry top map to mine the crystals. Dry Top also makes me around 20-30g per week which apart from the initial 100g I spent to activate the capture mission is the only gold I spend on the guild hall.
Using this method I have solo upgraded a guild to level 48.
All it took was a little effort. Farming mats is a lot easier than soloing some of the guild missions.
Would I have liked it to be cheaper? Of course I would – however it has not been an impossible task it just required setting goals “OK I want to go for upgrade xxx next – what do I need”

Yes, Nidome, building up guildhall requires going on a massive farming spree. Isn’t that the very point OP brought up?

Lacuda.8543:

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

We are guild level 29, and running out of available upgrades. We will be forced to make the Tavern tier 2 soon…but this is not viable. This singular upgrade that grants absolutely nothing in itself costs a horrendous TWELVE THOUSAND flax seed piles if farmed.

This is seriously BS. Please, PLEASE. Fix the expensive upgrades! Find a way to flood the market with Flax and Flax fibers. SEAWEED AS WELL, it only has like 12 spots it spawns and it’s VERY irregular.

I agree.

Guild Halls are Guild Gold Sink Halls.

These are not places for freedom of creation, they are prefabricated areas that require gold and resources to build up. Decorations and trophies are the only things that can be added, but still at high costs.

You’d figure with Anet being so creative, they would give players the freedom to build a truly personal space and be excited to see the unique creations from the tools provided…

Perhaps we simply miss a guild tax system as those you can find in games where guilds need hudge amount of ressources to develop facilities.

It would be very useful because from HOT, construction of the hall and manufacture of guild consumables are expensive.

An adjustable tax from 0% to X% of all money received (quest) or droped by players representing a guild would be useful.

Each guild and players could agree on a % automatically charged to feed the guild wallet…
A choice of 0% means the absence of joint effort and therefore a choice not to enjoy the fruits of this collective effort.

This feature would allow players to manage guild Investments without forcing them to:
– Either hold tedious accounts about members’ participation, avoiding recovery.
– Either leave the bulk of the effort to weigh on part of the guild, while the other part only enjoy.

Incidentally it would avoid any tension between players about collective effort once the tax rate agreed.

Anvil.9230:

Perhaps we simply miss a guild tax system as those you can find in games where guilds need hudge amount of ressources to develop facilities.

It would be very useful because from HOT, construction of the hall and manufacture of guild consumables are expensive.

An adjustable tax from 0% to X% of all money received (quest) or droped by players representing a guild would be useful.

Each guild and players could agree on a % automatically charged to feed the guild wallet…
A choice of 0% means the absence of joint effort and therefore a choice not to enjoy the fruits of this collective effort.

This feature would allow players to manage guild Investments without forcing them to:
– Either hold tedious accounts about members’ participation, avoiding recovery.
– Either leave the bulk of the effort to weigh on part of the guild, while the other part only enjoy.

Incidentally it would avoid any tension between players about collective effort once the tax rate agreed.

That’s not a god idea…

I have a better one, how about the devs give us the tools to create unique spaces. Scribes can still create unique decorations requiring minor guild member support. The devs can release guild hall decoration packs on the gem store as well.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, Nidome, building up guildhall requires going on a massive farming spree. Isn’t that the very point OP brought up?

Actually the OP seem to say that they didn’t want to buy it from the TP at current prices so they wanted Anet to artificially reduce the TP price by flooding the market as the quantities of materials involved was too much to be farmed by 5 people.

My response is that it is farmable by one person without buying any from the TP and doesn’t take a huge amount of time each day.
My personal bugbear is charged quartz as you can only make one per day and so many upgrades require it to make (ley line tools, celestial insignias and inscriptions) with 5 people they can have that stuff made in no time, with me, not so quick – but then the entirety of this game does not have to be completed yesterday.

Swagger.1459:

Lacuda.8543:

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

We are guild level 29, and running out of available upgrades. We will be forced to make the Tavern tier 2 soon…but this is not viable. This singular upgrade that grants absolutely nothing in itself costs a horrendous TWELVE THOUSAND flax seed piles if farmed.

This is seriously BS. Please, PLEASE. Fix the expensive upgrades! Find a way to flood the market with Flax and Flax fibers. SEAWEED AS WELL, it only has like 12 spots it spawns and it’s VERY irregular.

I agree.

Guild Halls are Guild Gold Sink Halls.

These are not places for freedom of creation, they are prefabricated areas that require gold and resources to build up. Decorations and trophies are the only things that can be added, but still at high costs.

You’d figure with Anet being so creative, they would give players the freedom to build a truly personal space and be excited to see the unique creations from the tools provided…

As is with any goal in this game. Decorating your character is also a gold sink. That’s the whole premise of the game. Farm and get materials to achieve your goals.

The reason Guild Halls aren’t complete freedom of creation is because it’s also progression based.

If you put in a bit of effort every once in a while you can make quite a bit of stuff.

Nidome.1365:

My response is that it is farmable by one person without buying any from the TP and doesn’t take a huge amount of time each day.

And yet what you described was a massive farming spree.

Guild halls should be about fun and creative expression… Not gold sinks on rails…

Swagger.1459:

Guild halls should be about fun and creative expression… Not gold sinks on rails…

You’re wrong. People can be very creative with guild halls. Especially after the SAB update. Just because it also involves investment doesn’t mean it’s exclusively gold sink.

Just some examples (in random order):
The [nA] Guild
Reddit Thread
Their Guild Hall picture gallery
Their SAB floating island

The [HC] Guild
SAB picture gallery

The [ARR] Guild
Reddit Thread

And that’s not counting all the guild halls seen in Wooden Potatoes’ videos where they go even crazier.

Our guild hall currently looks like:

Some of the upgrade requirements are hillarious. It feels like the devs were brainstorming in a meeting, guessing about what could be used to get upgrades for guildhalls. The answer is always, more flax. I have a huge list of things I want to craft, but I cannot, because the guild eats linseed oil and kegs in stacks. Not to mention the scribing. We want to decorate the guildhall so we need to level a scriber, but guess what. To level up a scribe, you need certain (= useless) upgrades in the guildhall. Our guild is spread arround 20 servers or more, for what genius reason we had to build this stuipd WAR ROOM? Now we have to do WvWvW upgrades only to be able to get the scribers a few more levels up.

As if I want to buy a car in RL. And to get that car I have to get a house, a garage, a pair of ski, diving equip, soccer goals, an italian coffee-machine, learn russian, learn portugese, learn swedish, adopting a dog, adopting a cat, adopting a cow, milking 2,000 liters of milk out of the cow, opening a lemonade stall, finding a lucky clover, get a teddy bear, an ice bear, a swimming pool which however is not compatible with the diving equip from the beginning, one barrel of oil, one barrel of gasoline, 10,000 needles, a package of chewing gum, a pair of scissors made of wood, back-hair from a three-headed-monkey, a bungee-jumping-rope, a flight-license, a chinese restaurant, 5 aligators, 1 siberian tiger albino, a horse, a wallaby, a chimeny, a coffin, a package of screws and 10 white marbles. And once I’ve collected all this, I get my car TIER 1. Which I cannot drive, which does not look like a car and not even sounds like a car. It is just a photograph of how a car is made in a factory and ofcourse the list for TIER 2.

Lacuda.8543:

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

Very little of the game caters to mid-sized guilds and GHs are one of them. Decorations are set up so that the costs can be spread out over people and time and yet remain available for the lifetime of the game.

You do not have to join a large guild or use a credit card; you just have to be efficient about how you choose to spend your time.

I think it’s fine that it’s really hard for a sub-20 person guild to have the same perks as larger guilds. I’m not against ANet changing the balance, but I would prefer for them to spend their time on things that affect stuff outside the guild halls, including adding more guild missions.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

Some of the upgrade requirements are hillarious. It feels like the devs were brainstorming in a meeting, guessing about what could be used to get upgrades for guildhalls. The answer is always, more flax. I have a huge list of things I want to craft, but I cannot, because the guild eats linseed oil and kegs in stacks. Not to mention the scribing. We want to decorate the guildhall so we need to level a scriber, but guess what. To level up a scribe, you need certain (= useless) upgrades in the guildhall. Our guild is spread arround 20 servers or more, for what genius reason we had to build this stuipd WAR ROOM? Now we have to do WvWvW upgrades only to be able to get the scribers a few more levels up.

As if I want to buy a car in RL. And to get that car I have to get a house, a garage, a pair of ski, diving equip, soccer goals, an italian coffee-machine, learn russian, learn portugese, learn swedish, adopting a dog, adopting a cat, adopting a cow, milking 2,000 liters of milk out of the cow, opening a lemonade stall, finding a lucky clover, get a teddy bear, an ice bear, a swimming pool which however is not compatible with the diving equip from the beginning, one barrel of oil, one barrel of gasoline, 10,000 needles, a package of chewing gum, a pair of scissors made of wood, back-hair from a three-headed-monkey, a bungee-jumping-rope, a flight-license, a chinese restaurant, 5 aligators, 1 siberian tiger albino, a horse, a wallaby, a chimeny, a coffin, a package of screws and 10 white marbles. And once I’ve collected all this, I get my car TIER 1. Which I cannot drive, which does not look like a car and not even sounds like a car. It is just a photograph of how a car is made in a factory and ofcourse the list for TIER 2.

Well, arguably, you don’t “need” the WvW upgrades. Especially when planning to decorate your guild hall, going the slow way can pay out. And the free 6 finishing kits (well 3 scribing 3 finishing) each tier help out really nicely. Other than that, with the scribe rebalancing all the basic decorations are available once you get the workshop. So technically you “only” need guild level 3 to level up a scribe and start decorating.

Obviously basic decorations still are 50 silver each.

Also there’s also a way to not just level your guilds WarRoom and let your scribe ask to join other guilds who already have said WvW upgrades in order to level up your guild.

I definitely check every once in a while incase some scribe is on LFG in order to level up and use our guild hall stuff.

Edit: My guild is a medium sized guild btw.

Swagger.1459:

That’s not a god idea…

I have a better one, how about the devs give us the tools to create unique spaces. Scribes can still create unique decorations requiring minor guild member support. The devs can release guild hall decoration packs on the gem store as well.

I understand what you mean.

Perhaps should we consider that 2 kinds of feature are provided by the hall: Cosmetics one (decorations), and facilities which can impact the game play (WvW improvements, banners as the hero one, and so on).

Perhaps decorations and facilities should be consider separatly in term of cost mechanism.
My idea of a tax system comes from another game I play in which guilds build facilities that give them advantages in the game….That’s why they have a cost and represent a collective Investment guilds decided to do or not to do. In that game, a optional tax system is a tool they have to manage that Investment.

I agree decorations are something different because they have no impact on the gameplay itself.

Why Tier 2 tavern? My guild is L39 and still hasn’t upgraded the tavern because it’s hands down the least useful structure.

The only benefits it confers are minor guild waypoint and run speed buffs and the ability to scribe guild world boss starters. All of the banners can be purchased in a cheaper and more useful version with commendations from the vendor in the Guild Initiative HQ.

Do yourself a favor and skip the T2 bar. Buy cheaper upgrades from the arena/war room to get enough guild XP to unlock whatever additional non-bar upgrades you’re after.

T2 tavern gives the 15% waypoint discount though, which is why we bothered to upgrade the hall at all tbh lol

Very little of the game caters to mid-sized guilds and GHs are one of them. Decorations are set up so that the costs can be spread out over people and time and yet remain available for the lifetime of the game.

imo its an individual gold sink for the guild. Sure some things can be added to the inventory by everyone like trophies from events, but usually scribe mats are purchased by the scribe and if u have only a couple of scribes those people dump all their gold into crafting decorations for their guild. So if you are a scribe you better be rich in gold, otherwise don’t bother.

fishball.7204:

T2 tavern gives the 15% waypoint discount though, which is why we bothered to upgrade the hall at all tbh lol

A 15% discount on waypoint can’t justify the gold spent to obtain the discount.

One of the biggest problem is that people don’t view the game in terms of the in game world.

Your Guild Hall should reflect the wealth and Prestige of said Guild. Guild halls are both achievement based and wealth based. Having access to certain décor requires
that guild members have completed content. Having a Guild hall decorated to the hilt with some item require lots of gold.

This is fair. You are rewarded for wise us of your time. Ones Guild Hall is a reflection of the dedication of its members with time invested or cold hard cash.

Guilds who members’ show this type of dedication keep GW2 alive by keeping maps populated or by supporting Anet with funds. They are a big part of the community.

To say a small or solo guild needs to be rewarded in the same way is self serving and self centered.

What write Serraphin Storm.2369, is also a point of view that can be defend about decorations.

Finaly a guild tax system should be useful in any case as a tool to manage guild Investment in its hall and in consumables ^^

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

Guild halls should be about fun and creative expression… Not gold sinks on rails…

You’re wrong. People can be very creative with guild halls. Especially after the SAB update. Just because it also involves investment doesn’t mean it’s exclusively gold sink.

Just some examples (in random order):
The [nA] Guild
Reddit Thread
Their Guild Hall picture gallery
Their SAB floating island

The [HC] Guild
SAB picture gallery

The [ARR] Guild
Reddit Thread

And that’s not counting all the guild halls seen in Wooden Potatoes’ videos where they go even crazier.

Our guild hall currently looks like:

Here’s the thing, we have a prefabricated map that we can upgrade and put decorations in… That’s not creative.

I’m not going to post a bunch of videos from other games here, but there are games that provide much better building tools and more creative freedom.

The devs should have just focused on home instances and given players full creative control to build what they wanted. The home spaces could have served as guild meeting places and areas to show off true creations. Scribing and gold sinks could still exist and the devs could even sell builders packs on the gem store.

There were and are better ways to do this player space stuff.

Swagger.1459:

Here’s the thing, we have a prefabricated map that we can upgrade and put decorations in… That’s not creative.

I’m not going to post a bunch of videos from other games here, but there are games that provide much better building tools and more creative freedom.

Surely that doesn’t tell anyone that you can’t be creative with the Guild Wars 2 decoration system. Maybe you have more freedom and more tools and maybe better tools in other games and more decorations and whatever else. This all is not saying you cannot be creative with the Guild Wars 2 decoration system. In fact one might argue you need to be more creative with the limited tools we have in order to decorate a guild hall. That’s why I linked those pictures. Because there are people who can be creative with this system. And that was obviously my point.

There were and are better ways to do this player space stuff.

There’s always room for improvement. Yes. I don’t disagree with that there’s alot of things the decoration system needs to improve on.

I would like to see the costs of things go down, the need for charged quarts could be worked out of the equation completely and I would be glade for one thing. The need for so much eldar wood, mithril and linseed oil is excessive I think as well. The rest is really just pet peeves of mine about sPvP (which I don’t do, can’t get any desire to do either) and WvW is another big so what to me, but those are my own personal things and should not really be reflected in the halls as a whole.

Large amounts of material requirements are what fuel the economy. However, if you’re someone for whom the goal is what’s important, but the process of getting to the goal is …

FrizzFreston.5290:

… definitely not fun …

…then the whole thing is going to seem onerous and excessive. I’m not sure that’s a good idea for player retention — however, long-term goals are also important for player retention.

I’d normally have no problem with the idea that GH goals are long-term objectives, and that players should just relax and add to them when it’s convenient, rather than plugging away doggedly if that’s not their preferred way to play the game. However, since ANet thought it necessary to remove guild perks already earned by existing guilds, I’m going to side with the OP on this one, even if I’m benefiting by selling mats.

The old perks, earned via influence, were rewards that accrued via playing the game however one liked. The new system seems more inclined to shovel players into specific content (in this case whatever offers the best gold and/or mat return). This is not the first, nor is it likely to be the last, time that ANet has seen fit to shift from pushing fun to pushing specific things. Maybe it’s necessary to preserve the game. I’m not in a position to judge that. However, it has definitely been a step away from the game being fun, and apparently not just for me.

fishball.7204:

T2 tavern gives the 15% waypoint discount though, which is why we bothered to upgrade the hall at all tbh lol

15% of 4 silver is 60 copper.

That’s two mobs killed, and that’s the rare occasion that you’re actually waypointing all the way across the map.

It’s nice that it’s a passive upgrade, but when we polled our guild everyone decided it wasn’t work 16 THOUSAND flax plus elonian wine etc. etc.

Upgrading the workshop’s and its harvesting nodes will surpass the savings from the waypoint discount much more cheaply, as will upgrading the market and its guild trader, allowing your guild members to turn their commendations in to 1+ gold, and new players to save significant amounts of money on ascended recipies. if you have people that want to scribe, halving the cost of basic decorations seriously reduces their cost to level scribing. (Even though its no longer a strictly necessary upgrade)

The war room and arena, even if you don’t WvW are extremely cheap sources of guild XP to unlock further upgrades for the market/workshop.

Its your guild, but if your primary complain is cost of upgrades, I’d suggest you do a bit more work on getting the biggest bang for your buck. T1 everything for the guild mission slots, and buffs (each buff bought upgrades all of your buffs) then focus onthe market so you can turn spare commendations in to gold on the tradepost, then focus on the workshop to prove easy passive harvesting income during down time.

Hold off on mine upgrades until they’re actually required to raise your aetherium cap. Ignore the mining rate upgrades since they’re useless if you don’t consistantly have enough resources to do multiple upgrades at a time. Abuse the cheap costs in the Arena/War Room to farm XP for guild levels.

For the money you’re putting in to a T2 bar, you could be making more money, have better buffs, and generally be getting more benefit from the expense of the upgrades.

15% waypoint discount is just a bad value proposition if your problem is that you find thins too expensive.

I meant that was the only reason we ever did Tavern 2, was to get the 15% waypoint discount and that Tavern 2 is useless except for the potential to get the 15% waypoint discount upgrade. Poorly worded though cuz I was probably tired when posting it.

I think part of the problem we’re facing is that people have to make a choice every time they get their hands on some materials: use it for yourself, or the guild? From what I’ve seen from the guilds I’m in so far is that most people tend to pick themselves (or rather, their own wallets) over the guild’s stockpile.

An example? I’m in a small Charr roleplaying guild on Piken Square. We have 41 members, of which 3 actively donate, with another 2 occasionally donating. The rest just either doesn’t seem to play enough to actively collect materials or gold, or doesn’t care (enough).

I can only imagine this is a recurring problem with many guilds. Sure, if you have 500 players, with a fraction of 40-50 actively donating and working towards the guild, it gets easier. But in small guilds you’re done for.

What I’m trying to say is that I believe that the guild hall should either be funded solely on materials that are only useful to the guild hall and are automatically donated to the guild. Say for every 1 tree you chop down, you donate 1 invisible ‘guild log’ or whatever. It means people can work towards their guild hall without sacrificing their own pile. Of course, the droprate should more forgiving compared to say Lamp Finials, which are just stupid.

That or just scale the required materials needed depending on the amount of players in a guild. Would certainly make my life easier…

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

sorudo.9054:

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

Nothing in this thread is about getting the hall. Every single guild can get a hal easily. it gosts 100 gold an a really easy mission you can just LFG five people to complete.

Getting the hall is the easy part.

It’s about the cost of making the hall do anything useful. The Upgrades. That’s what people are complaining about.

It’s also the same system used in the first game. Guild Hall upgrading makes players choose between themselves and supporting the guild. Same as the first game. A hall doesn’t do anything useful (except to use it as a GvG map). Upgrading the hall unlocks NPCs and services.

It’s literally the exact same system as the first game, only easier. The Price of a hall in the first game was’nt a flat rate. Those seals came exclusively from player that won the HoH. The NPC that sold them, like all GW1 trade NPCs could only resell what another player sold in the first place. In GW2, nobody needs to “win” the right to get a hall via a worldwide pvp tournament. They just need to kill a couple easy mobs.

One of the guilds I’m in, a person made a ton (like 1000s I would say) of the SAB clouds and proceeded to make a jumping puzzle throughout the guild hall.

I would say that is pretty creative. Even has little purple arrows from the waypoint to the start of the puzzle to lead people in.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

We want to decorate the guildhall so we need to level a scriber, but guess what. To level up a scribe, you need certain (= useless) upgrades in the guildhall. Our guild is spread arround 20 servers or more, for what genius reason we had to build this stuipd WAR ROOM? Now we have to do WvWvW upgrades only to be able to get the scribers a few more levels up.

Your scribes (like everyone else who wants to level up a scribe and lacks acces to the WvW unlocks) are welcome to mail me in game and craft those WvW things in our hall so they can level up (totally free ofcourse). Be sure to use the gw2crafts.net scribe guide now since mine (the one hosted on dulfy.net)is outdated since the april patch.

We have been providing this service since i first posted the guide and we continue to do so…. i lost count on how many scribes have already visited us but its way over 100. I’m on daily so you should be accepted within 24 hours, make sure you have 1 free guild slot (you can join up to 5) so i can send the invite.

We are a casual relaxed guild (located in gilded hollow) and do not require anything for this service. While you are there you are welcome to give our guildhall jumping puzzles a try if you like and use all the other stuff like max crafting buf (i recommend to use it during scribe leveling!), nodes, guild armor/weapons sellers.. etc.

It works for both EU and US players, though the guild is EU so if you are US you can not see most of us except for other US visitors (but you can still use everything )

Just keep in mind that all the guild things that you craft (WvW things, banners, decorations) end up in our guildhall, so if your guild has the unlocks for some best craft those in your own hall.

I hope this helps those guilds who struggle with choosing between WvW upgrades just for scribes to level and other things that they really want to build.

Our guild is probably about medium size and we have already max’d our GH. Things that help:
1) Appoint one person as the scribe to make things and all other members pass resources to them.
2) Skip the kinds of upgrades your guild is not interested in (we did WvW last)
3) The higher GH tiers require lots of HoT related resources so keep running those metas.
4) Usually the mine for the ore time gated hitting the next tier.

Anvil.9230:

Perhaps we simply miss a guild tax system as those you can find in games where guilds need hudge amount of ressources to develop facilities.

It would be very useful because from HOT, construction of the hall and manufacture of guild consumables are expensive.

An adjustable tax from 0% to X% of all money received (quest) or droped by players representing a guild would be useful.

Each guild and players could agree on a % automatically charged to feed the guild wallet…
A choice of 0% means the absence of joint effort and therefore a choice not to enjoy the fruits of this collective effort.

This feature would allow players to manage guild Investments without forcing them to:
– Either hold tedious accounts about members’ participation, avoiding recovery.
– Either leave the bulk of the effort to weigh on part of the guild, while the other part only enjoy.

Incidentally it would avoid any tension between players about collective effort once the tax rate agreed.

This would be subject to abuse. World of Warcraft did the same thing and you started having guilds springing up bombarding the player base with guild invites, getting people in the guild, and then filling up what would become the guild master’s personal piggy bank.

A better system would be something like a ‘crediting’ system where if a guild does content together, they get credits that count towards a selected objective, like the ones where you need to come up with 250 seaweed or 50 elonian leather.

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

Nothing in this thread is about getting the hall. Every single guild can get a hal easily. it gosts 100 gold an a really easy mission you can just LFG five people to complete.

Getting the hall is the easy part.

It’s about the cost of making the hall do anything useful. The Upgrades. That’s what people are complaining about.

It’s also the same system used in the first game. Guild Hall upgrading makes players choose between themselves and supporting the guild. Same as the first game. A hall doesn’t do anything useful (except to use it as a GvG map). Upgrading the hall unlocks NPCs and services.

It’s literally the exact same system as the first game, only easier. The Price of a hall in the first game was’nt a flat rate. Those seals came exclusively from player that won the HoH. The NPC that sold them, like all GW1 trade NPCs could only resell what another player sold in the first place. In GW2, nobody needs to “win” the right to get a hall via a worldwide pvp tournament. They just need to kill a couple easy mobs.

100g is quite allot for me and it also needs some kind of guild coins that i have none of (150 to be exact).
last time the sigils were for sale they were 23k, that’s about 15 gold in GW2.
seriously, GH’s in GW1 were a cakewalk compared to GW2 GH’s, better yet, lately you can get a GH in GW1 by doing zaisen quests/missions/bounties. (takes just 3 gold zaisen coins and 100 gold, about 10 silver for GW2)

Just need to know what to do.

Plus 100gold is 50 days of dailies divided by the amount of members. And I wouldn’t call Dailies a huge amount of playtime. You’re very likely to get loads more.

I miss you passive influence system.

sorudo.9054:

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

Nothing in this thread is about getting the hall. Every single guild can get a hal easily. it gosts 100 gold an a really easy mission you can just LFG five people to complete.

Getting the hall is the easy part.

It’s about the cost of making the hall do anything useful. The Upgrades. That’s what people are complaining about.

It’s also the same system used in the first game. Guild Hall upgrading makes players choose between themselves and supporting the guild. Same as the first game. A hall doesn’t do anything useful (except to use it as a GvG map). Upgrading the hall unlocks NPCs and services.

It’s literally the exact same system as the first game, only easier. The Price of a hall in the first game was’nt a flat rate. Those seals came exclusively from player that won the HoH. The NPC that sold them, like all GW1 trade NPCs could only resell what another player sold in the first place. In GW2, nobody needs to “win” the right to get a hall via a worldwide pvp tournament. They just need to kill a couple easy mobs.

100g is quite allot for me and it also needs some kind of guild coins that i have none of (150 to be exact).
last time the sigils were for sale they were 23k, that’s about 15 gold in GW2.
seriously, GH’s in GW1 were a cakewalk compared to GW2 GH’s, better yet, lately you can get a GH in GW1 by doing zaisen quests/missions/bounties. (takes just 3 gold zaisen coins and 100 gold, about 10 silver for GW2)

This is also not GW1. The Halls in GW2 are leaps and bounds more functionally useful, and in terms of actual earned income roughtly equivalent in effort to acquire.

The reason halls became so cheap in GW1 was due to an economic imbalance of production versus consumption. Every round of the HoH rewards a sigil. Most of those sigils are sold. This results in a much larger number of avaliable sigils than people who want to buy them. Furthermore, the primary purpose of halls in GW1 was GvG, which is vastly different than the primary purpose of halls in GW2, scribing and guild buffs.

The entire point of GW2 halls is that they require effort versus the point of halls in GW1 is that you can get one easily to participate in GvG

You can’t tidily compare the two systems as they have vastly different design goals and uses.

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

Nothing in this thread is about getting the hall. Every single guild can get a hal easily. it gosts 100 gold an a really easy mission you can just LFG five people to complete.

Getting the hall is the easy part.

It’s about the cost of making the hall do anything useful. The Upgrades. That’s what people are complaining about.

It’s also the same system used in the first game. Guild Hall upgrading makes players choose between themselves and supporting the guild. Same as the first game. A hall doesn’t do anything useful (except to use it as a GvG map). Upgrading the hall unlocks NPCs and services.

It’s literally the exact same system as the first game, only easier. The Price of a hall in the first game was’nt a flat rate. Those seals came exclusively from player that won the HoH. The NPC that sold them, like all GW1 trade NPCs could only resell what another player sold in the first place. In GW2, nobody needs to “win” the right to get a hall via a worldwide pvp tournament. They just need to kill a couple easy mobs.

100g is quite allot for me and it also needs some kind of guild coins that i have none of (150 to be exact).
last time the sigils were for sale they were 23k, that’s about 15 gold in GW2.
seriously, GH’s in GW1 were a cakewalk compared to GW2 GH’s, better yet, lately you can get a GH in GW1 by doing zaisen quests/missions/bounties. (takes just 3 gold zaisen coins and 100 gold, about 10 silver for GW2)

This is also not GW1. The Halls in GW2 are leaps and bounds more functionally useful, and in terms of actual earned income roughtly equivalent in effort to acquire.

The reason halls became so cheap in GW1 was due to an economic imbalance of production versus consumption. Every round of the HoH rewards a sigil. Most of those sigils are sold. This results in a much larger number of avaliable sigils than people who want to buy them. Furthermore, the primary purpose of halls in GW1 was GvG, which is vastly different than the primary purpose of halls in GW2, scribing and guild buffs.

The entire point of GW2 halls is that they require effort versus the point of halls in GW1 is that you can get one easily to participate in GvG

You can’t tidily compare the two systems as they have vastly different design goals and uses.

actually i bought my GH because i can’t stand any kind of PvP, i use my GH for confinience reason and to gather my guild without cluttering the servers with our texts.
what you pretty much say is “you ether do a crazy grind or kitten off”, i rather have my GH and then spend the time building it.

sorudo.9054:

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

PopeUrban.2578:

sorudo.9054:

guild halls should be done like GW1, have a sigil that anymone can buy, keep it at a normal price (like 50 gold or so).
now every single guild is able to get a guild hall, now no one can act like they are more superior. (like some guilds love to do)

Nothing in this thread is about getting the hall. Every single guild can get a hal easily. it gosts 100 gold an a really easy mission you can just LFG five people to complete.

Getting the hall is the easy part.

It’s about the cost of making the hall do anything useful. The Upgrades. That’s what people are complaining about.

It’s also the same system used in the first game. Guild Hall upgrading makes players choose between themselves and supporting the guild. Same as the first game. A hall doesn’t do anything useful (except to use it as a GvG map). Upgrading the hall unlocks NPCs and services.

It’s literally the exact same system as the first game, only easier. The Price of a hall in the first game was’nt a flat rate. Those seals came exclusively from player that won the HoH. The NPC that sold them, like all GW1 trade NPCs could only resell what another player sold in the first place. In GW2, nobody needs to “win” the right to get a hall via a worldwide pvp tournament. They just need to kill a couple easy mobs.

100g is quite allot for me and it also needs some kind of guild coins that i have none of (150 to be exact).
last time the sigils were for sale they were 23k, that’s about 15 gold in GW2.
seriously, GH’s in GW1 were a cakewalk compared to GW2 GH’s, better yet, lately you can get a GH in GW1 by doing zaisen quests/missions/bounties. (takes just 3 gold zaisen coins and 100 gold, about 10 silver for GW2)

This is also not GW1. The Halls in GW2 are leaps and bounds more functionally useful, and in terms of actual earned income roughtly equivalent in effort to acquire.

The reason halls became so cheap in GW1 was due to an economic imbalance of production versus consumption. Every round of the HoH rewards a sigil. Most of those sigils are sold. This results in a much larger number of avaliable sigils than people who want to buy them. Furthermore, the primary purpose of halls in GW1 was GvG, which is vastly different than the primary purpose of halls in GW2, scribing and guild buffs.

The entire point of GW2 halls is that they require effort versus the point of halls in GW1 is that you can get one easily to participate in GvG

You can’t tidily compare the two systems as they have vastly different design goals and uses.

actually i bought my GH because i can’t stand any kind of PvP, i use my GH for confinience reason and to gather my guild without cluttering the servers with our texts.
what you pretty much say is “you ether do a crazy grind or kitten off”, i rather have my GH and then spend the time building it.

How you used it and what it was designed to do are not the same thing.

GW1 guild halls were GvG arenas first, and PvE convenience centers second. GW2 guild halls are PvE long term goals first, and providers of PvP rank buffs and WvW tactics second.

That doesn’t mean some people don’t get a hall specifically for an arena or rank buff, or, like you, some people didn’t get the GW1 hall just for PvE hangouts.

PopeUrban.2578:

How you used it and what it was designed to do are not the same thing.

GW1 guild halls were GvG arenas first, and PvE convenience centers second. GW2 guild halls are PvE long term goals first, and providers of PvP rank buffs and WvW tactics second.

Sure. Just like GW1 was a PvP game, with a pve serving as a lobby to teach new players the ropes. Which lasted about as long as it took for the first players to arrive.

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

How you used it and what it was designed to do are not the same thing.

GW1 guild halls were GvG arenas first, and PvE convenience centers second. GW2 guild halls are PvE long term goals first, and providers of PvP rank buffs and WvW tactics second.

Sure. Just like GW1 was a PvP game, with a pve serving as a lobby to teach new players the ropes. Which lasted about as long as it took for the first players to arrive.

What?

GW1 always had a very healthy PvP/PvE split community. The later changes were made to serve both communities so that neither depended on the other.

That said, the difference between the two guild hall models is undeniable. GW1 halls were feature-neutral. To get any of the basic services in the GW2 hall took easily as much or more effort because at the point of purchase the GW1 hall was (and still is) a blank, functionless slate unless you’re using it for GvG.

The overall effort for a basic hall with merchant, guild bank, and repair is acually cheaper and easier in the GW2 hall compared to “basic services” bank/merchant/ priest of a GW1 hall. The difference is that in the GW1 hall, you got the hall first and aded functionality. The GW2 hall you can buy the functionality ahead of time.

After multiple years of unchecked inflation, the GW1 hall is certainly cheaper, but that’s only due to GW1s largely unregulated economy. It’s cheaper because nobody patches out cheese farms any more, the game is on maintenance mode, and currency loses value at a constant rate and has lost value at a constant rate for quite some time.

This also doesn’t address the basic fact that GW2 halls are overall more useful and require more work for that very reason. Wheras GW1 halls were prestige things that conferred no real benefits you couldn’t find in any town for free.

Except for GvG matches.

PopeUrban.2578:

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

How you used it and what it was designed to do are not the same thing.

GW1 guild halls were GvG arenas first, and PvE convenience centers second. GW2 guild halls are PvE long term goals first, and providers of PvP rank buffs and WvW tactics second.

Sure. Just like GW1 was a PvP game, with a pve serving as a lobby to teach new players the ropes. Which lasted about as long as it took for the first players to arrive.

What?

GW1 always had a very healthy PvP/PvE split community.

Exactly. The original design lasted only until the first players arrived.

Though i agree that the GW1 guildhalls were really bland and lacked a lot of the features they should have had. Not that GW2 ones are much better in that regard, by the way – there’s not much more point in being in gw2 guildhall than it was to be in a GW1 one.

No, GW2 hall is not more useful. The upgrades are, but then we had them in the previous pre-HoT system without needing any guildhall for it. If anything, the current system on many points was a downgrade to guild usefulness.

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

How you used it and what it was designed to do are not the same thing.

GW1 guild halls were GvG arenas first, and PvE convenience centers second. GW2 guild halls are PvE long term goals first, and providers of PvP rank buffs and WvW tactics second.

Sure. Just like GW1 was a PvP game, with a pve serving as a lobby to teach new players the ropes. Which lasted about as long as it took for the first players to arrive.

What?

GW1 always had a very healthy PvP/PvE split community.

Exactly. The original design lasted only until the first players arrived.

Though i agree that the GW1 guildhalls were really bland and lacked a lot of the features they should have had. Not that GW2 ones are much better in that regard, by the way – there’s not much more point in being in gw2 guildhall than it was to be in a GW1 one.

No, GW2 hall is not more useful. The upgrades are, but then we had them in the previous pre-HoT system without needing any guildhall for it. If anything, the current system on many points was a downgrade to guild usefulness.

It wasn’t a downgrade, it was a shift from a system that was trivial for high activity guilds to a system that is universally equal in cost for all guilds.

In the old system, just having more people log in and play the game meant you got progress. If your guild was large enough, you spent absolutely nothing on influence and had enough of it to persistantly roll out banners, buffs, missions, and all the bells and whistles.

If you were in a small guild, however, to maintain and use your guild at the same efficiency you had to pay a large cost in gold to influence conversion, and had to do so in perpetuity.

In the new system, unlocks are one time costs, and banners require crafting resources. That means that the costs are equal for all guilds. A big zerg guild pays exactly as much for an upgrade or to scribe a banner as a solo guild rather than getting all of the upgrades for essentially free. Although it may be easier to convince members in a large guild to contribute to that cost, just having more people in your guild does not lower it. In the influence system, it did. Small guilds paid gold and were constantly starved on influence, the largest guilds paid literally nothing and had giant stacks of unused influence.

Whether those static costs are reasonable is a matter of personal opinion. For small guilds, upgrading and getting benefit from the guild is far far cheaper than endlessly converting gold to influence because of the permanent unlocks. The only ongoing costs are for consumables. For large guilds it is more expensive because there is no passive gain just for people logging in, and they can not generate consumables from the result of these passive gains and must in stead actively invest materials or commendations to generate them.

Further, the GW2 hall is immensely more useful by comparison. It affords access to unique vendors that can only be found there, can be used to teleport directly and for free to a number of core services and back again from anywhere in the world, houses permanent, stackable buffs, and is the only place scribing can take place.

The GW1 hall was just a really expensive town. The GW2 hall actually confers benefits and services towns do not.

PopeUrban.2578:

If you were in a small guild, however, to maintain and use your guild at the same efficiency you had to pay a large cost in gold to influence conversion, and had to do so in perpetuity.

You started to get positive on influence income very fast, assuming you had a small core of active players that did a bit more than just stand afking in LA. My guild at that time had around 5-10 people logging daily. We unlocked everything and managed to maintain buffs and banner supply without spending a dime on influence.

PopeUrban.2578:

In the new system, unlocks are one time costs, and banners require crafting resources. That means that the costs are equal for all guilds. A big zerg guild pays exactly as much for an upgrade or to scribe a banner as a solo guild rather than getting all of the upgrades for essentially free.

Exactly, a 500 man guild pays exactly the same for an upgrade as a 5 man one. That means, that every member of the smaller guild has to pay 100 times more for that upgrade as a member of the bigger one. It is exactly how it was before with influence, but now you don’t have a chance of getting it for free at all. And for small guilds the cost is currently really prohibitive.

PopeUrban.2578:

Whether those static costs are reasonable is a matter of personal opinion. For small guilds, upgrading and getting benefit from the guild is far far cheaper than endlessly converting gold to influence because of the permanent unlocks.

You must be joking. You only had trouble with influence if you tried to constantly have all the buffs up. Which, if you haven’t noticed, is not possible now – you can benefit only from one. And as for banners, cost of scribing them is bigger now than before (assuming you used only influence bought with gold, which you really didn’t need to do)

PopeUrban.2578:

The only ongoing costs are for consumables. For large guilds it is more expensive because there is no passive gain just for people logging in, and they can not generate consumables from the result of these passive gains and must in stead actively invest materials or commendations to generate them.

For smaller guilds it is more costly as well, compared to what was before.
And that’s just for consumables. The cost of upgrading the guild to even get to those is now so high, that guilds so small and so inactive that they couldn’t get enough influence before will find themselves now unable to progress at all.

PopeUrban.2578:

Further, the GW2 hall is immensely more useful by comparison. It affords access to unique vendors that can only be found there, can be used to teleport directly and for free to a number of core services and back again from anywhere in the world, houses permanent, stackable buffs, and is the only place scribing can take place.

All of which was accessible before without a guildhall, so can hardly be considered a guildhall feature. Well, all without a scribing, but that one is either useful for guildhall only, or is a downgrade compared to the previous ways of getting buffs/consumables.

i want to see new maps that are for home building mostly. So we can have our own personal designed house outside of guild permissions.

Lacuda.8543:

I have a guild that functions with roughly 5 active players at our peaks. We have been around for years and we do not wish to be forced to either join a larger guild or grab our credit cards just to get the BASIC upgrades.

We are guild level 29, and running out of available upgrades. We will be forced to make the Tavern tier 2 soon…but this is not viable. This singular upgrade that grants absolutely nothing in itself costs a horrendous TWELVE THOUSAND flax seed piles if farmed.

This is seriously BS. Please, PLEASE. Fix the expensive upgrades! Find a way to flood the market with Flax and Flax fibers. SEAWEED AS WELL, it only has like 12 spots it spawns and it’s VERY irregular.

You guys are doing way better than my guild which has around 60members but only around 6-10 active on a daily basis (at peaks about 15), we are level 21 and due to many of our members having personal legendary goals etc we are at this level needing the mine upgrade. Elder wood, elder wood, elder wood… oh wait, anyone got any elder wood? LOL

Also actually at this point I might add a couple of our loyal members can’t afford HoT and don’t necessarily want to give up their mats they’ve earned for nothing in return (who can blame them?)… – this in regard to guild buffs which used to be for everyone and now you can only have ONE running at a time and ONLY if you have HoT. #unfair