Guild Wars 2

I think the decision to gate the acquisition of Guild Halls requiring multi-player actions is not very fair or well thought out. There are many player in very small guilds or have personal guilds that will make it very difficult to have their own Guild Hall or down right impossible for many. That is a major feature that many players simply will not be able to enjoy which is silly. Especially after paying between $50-100 to get new content that they paid for. I understand having to limit the Guild Halls in the HOT region but it should not be exclusive or force you to join larger guilds instead of remaining in the guild that you earned and built with upgrades to enjoy the new feature in an expansion that you paid good money for. Please Arenanet developers reconsider the way Guild Halls are acquired. Make it simple so all the HOT paying player base can enjoy the new feature. Guild Hall should be fun and simple to have like most other MMOs housing. Not a gated, difficult, and limiting feature that locks out many.

Devs specifically said that to acquire the Hall you need to do a group event, but that group isn’t restricted to guild members, you can just shout out or use the LFG tool to get help, after that you can keep your solo/small group adventure into your HALL.

or just merge ur guild w/ my guild (5ish) an den we’ll be like 2/3 tha way to being a small guild.

small guild = 15ish members according to anet. less thn that don’t count i think

This matters to me as well. We have a small guild populated by close friends and family. We value our guild, and the exclusive membership. We’ve been really excited by the idea that we could win our way into a place to call our own, but more recently I’ve been worried precisely that this content will not be for us, but only for guilds with large memberships.

If that is indeed the case, I don’t really understand the rationale. So I’m hoping that I’m wrong about those impressions.

That is my point, why does it have to be a group event in the first place? It is only a “housing” feature that if easily offered in most MMOs. Why could they not let you buy it with influence(perhaps different tier Hall structures), money, pay rent, etc. ? I know you can shout out in LFG or chat but why make it so gated and restricted for small/solo guilds. I know many enjoy small/solo guilds only. It is like penalizing and discriminating certain players for a feature they fairly paid for.

Probably the event to claim the Guild Hall won’t be so hard that 10~15 players won’t be able to handle it, so if you have less than that, just look for a few more players and done.

EDIT: Are you really asking why a Guild Hall event needs to be a group event? Why do you even have a guild if you don’t want to be in a group? Small guilds will be very likely to handle the event by their own.

genotec.4308:

That is my point, why does it have to be a group event in the first place? It is only a “housing” feature that if easily offered in most MMOs.

Except it’s not just a housing feature. It contain features aimed at groups of people (dueling arena, Guild Missions, WvW structures etc) as well.

genotec.4308:

It is like penalizing and discriminating certain players for a feature they fairly paid for.

In that case then they shouldn’t add any group content, because that’s penalizing players who want to play alone and who have fairly paid for it.

Belzebu, thanks for your input. I am not questioning the logic of guild events requiring a group, such as puzzles. My concern is the actual initial acquisition of the Guild Hall requiring a larger group(10-15). We have very little details on the exact amount needed or mechanics of the event. Speculation out there is that small/solo guilds will need help. I simply requested to make a housing feature that is paid for in the first place be easier to get instead of a “group event”. Many people have small/solo guilds that do not enjoy being in large groups(guilds). The only player housing available in this game should not be restricting or discriminating to some because our play style is different. Just make it fair for all the guilds to get with equal difficulty.

By the lore set forth in the kitten game, groups as [small] as five people can be considered to be a guild. Otherwise the “famous adventuring guild” Destiny’s Edge is in fact not a guild, which kittens up their own lore. They should really keep that in mind when setting arbitrary number “requirements” for these types of things.

Edit: Stupid fracking filter.

Well, they are planing on doing Guild Hall first, if that system works well, I think that an actual housing may be implemented later.
You can’t expect that they make a guild hall system that also apply to solo or very small guild.
People don’t actually complain about guild missions not being friendly to solo/small guild, because it makes no sense to have “soloable” guild missions, just like it makes no sense to have “solo” guild halls, but in both cases there are workarounds that doesn’t take much effort.

genotec.4308:

That is my point, why does it have to be a group event in the first place? It is only a “housing” feature that if easily offered in most MMOs.

Except it’s not just a housing feature. It contain features aimed at groups of people (dueling arena, Guild Missions, WvW structures etc) as well.

genotec.4308:

It is like penalizing and discriminating certain players for a feature they fairly paid for.

In that case then they shouldn’t add any group content, because that’s penalizing players who want to play alone and who have fairly paid for it

Last time I checked, solo/small guilds were allowed as well as solo gameplay. If that was not the case then guilds would need a certain amount to form or keep active. I have no issues with the guild’s having group content. Gating housing is not fair for everyone. Yes, there are more people that have solo/small guilds than you think. But we think and play differently than what others think. All MMOs and housing should have groups and nothing solo. Sounds good to me.

You can’t expect that they make a guild hall system that also apply to solo or very small guild.

Why not. Almost every MMO out there does.

They are most likely not going to mechanically gate anything. It will simply be made so hard so that most solo players won’t be able to do it.
There is nothing (as far as we know) that STOPS you from doing it, other than your own skill.

If they had made it so it required X amount of people to even try it, I would have agreed, but as far as we know there is no such thing happening.

I think plenty of people will be out there offering to help with guild hall getting. I know I will. Unless the fight is hours long, I can well imagine a rotation with people taking turns helping the fights for small and solo guilds.

There may be some mercenaries involved, but I won’t charge a copper for my help (though I will likely secure my own hall(s) first).

We don’t have much information about the group event, maybe that event scale down and might be easily done by 5 people

genotec.4308:

Last time I checked, solo/small guilds were allowed as well as solo gameplay. If that was not the case then guilds would need a certain amount to form or keep active. I have no issues with the guild’s having group content. Gating housing is not fair for everyone. Yes, there are more people that have solo/small guilds than you think. But we think and play differently than what others think. All MMOs and housing should have groups and nothing solo. Sounds good to me.

At no point did I say that there shouldn’t be anything for solo players or that solo players are excluded. i was making a point that you can’t cater to every player’s preferences in every bit of content.

These are Guild Halls, not Player Housing. The content they provide – which would be content for groups, since that’s what a Guild is – shouldn’t be balanced around solo players since a person on their own isn’t a guild in the literal sense.

At no point did I say that there shouldn’t be anything solo. However, these are Guild Halls, not Player Housing. The content they provide – which would be content for Guilds – shouldn’t be balanced around solo players since a person on their own isn’t a guild in the literal sense.

Yes I understand what you are saying and my apology for any misunderstanding. Then why did they allow solo/small guilds to form and continue to operate in the first place? You initially pay to form and upgrade it with time and money. Then when the best feature will be available to actually have a Guild Hall(even a small sized one for solo/smaller guilds) will not be as balanced for those players. In my opinion, that is a way that alienates players from a game.

I agree that even solo guilds should be able to own a guild hall, but in the case where a guild hall may require a larger number of members to capture it there should be a mechanism where by a cross-guild party can capture a hall for a given guild.

If all of the guilds participating want the same hall then perhaps they have to do multiple runs on the same “dungeon” for want of a better term OR there is something like a “chest” that allows them all to claim an instance of it from a single run.

I have had my own one man guild since release and tbh I’m not worried about the process of obtaining a guild hall because you can be sure there will be groups of people selling them in LFG, just as dungeon runners sell paths, selling guild halls will become a thing.

genotec.4308:

That is my point, why does it have to be a group event in the first place? It is only a “housing” feature that if easily offered in most MMOs. Why could they not let you buy it with influence(perhaps different tier Hall structures), money, pay rent, etc. ? I know you can shout out in LFG or chat but why make it so gated and restricted for small/solo guilds. I know many enjoy small/solo guilds only. It is like penalizing and discriminating certain players for a feature they fairly paid for.

I don’t know what game gave you the idea that Guild halls are housing, when every game I’ve played, seen, or heard of, uses them as a community Hub. An exclusivity element is usually added via vendor leases for both common and unique merchants, crafting facilities (if the game has it), group storage, and event hosting. They typically offer all the services of a major city hub, along with several things that can only be done as an instance (like GvG matches in GW1).

But the reasoning behind Guild hall requiring a group is simple….. Guilds, by definition, are groups. The game is in need of stronger group oriented combat. And the only type of players that would effectively utilize them ARE large groups that can afford the upkeep costs.

I can’t find any references to it, but I could had sworn GW2 had influence decay at 10% per day. I’ve known other games to have upkeep costs for guild services paid weekly or monthly using gold or points. Big guilds could keep them up constantly, while most small guilds rotate or pick them up on special occasions.

I STRONGLY disagree that Guild Halls should be big guild exclusive, it may be that some of the features will require a larger number of players to acquire and perhaps maintain them but smaller guilds should be able to work co-operatively to achieve the same rewards.

GW2 does not have any influence decay now, it may have done at release though and IMO it is right that they canned that feature (if it was present in the first place).

I know there are mechanical advantages to having a solo guild, but isn’t that technically a oxymoron? Not sure if ANet should cater to solo guilds. Really why do people have solo guilds, for some extra bank space? Because they like the name? No seriously, give me a good reason, I might honestly agree with you. But at present all I see solo guilds as is a way to get extra storage space without having to pay gems.
Besides your argument is: I want housing, so give me a guild hall. Well I can respect your desire for housing, and I full understand how someone with a solo-guild would be of such a mindset (given the nature of solo guilds) but how about rather asking ANet to give us proper housing?
However small guilds is something to consider.

genotec.4308:

That is my point, why does it have to be a group event in the first place? It is only a “housing” feature that if easily offered in most MMOs.

Because a game that just gives you everything is not fun. The appeal of a MMO is this sense of working towards something.

genotec.4308:

We have very little details on the exact amount needed or mechanics of the event. Speculation out there is that small/solo guilds will need help.

Yes but we don’t know this. You’re speaking as though this is a fact.

genotec.4308:

It is like penalizing and discriminating certain players for a feature they fairly paid for.

That’s like saying all dungeons and world bosses should be solo-able. Your logic is flawed. Some aspects of a MMO will obviously require multiplayer, as the name suggests.
Besides guilds are an inherently group thing, if you want to we could even play the definition game but I think we all can agree that guilds do not invoke a imagine of a singular person. It is not unfair to expect groups to perform group content.

Donari.5237:

I think plenty of people will be out there offering to help with guild hall getting. I know I will. Unless the fight is hours long, I can well imagine a rotation with people taking turns helping the fights for small and solo guilds.

There may be some mercenaries involved, but I won’t charge a copper for my help (though I will likely secure my own hall(s) first).

So there’s all sorts of ways to game-the-game.

Whether we are talking small or solo guilds the basic mechanics to support them should essentially be the same. A solo/tiny guild could just be a fledgling guild that is trying to build itself up to (at least) official small guild status.

However, there are most likely cases were multiple solo/tiny-guilds want to band together for mutual benefit on occasion but not be officially members of each other’s guild for one reason or another (The reasons are irrelevant).

^ And there is nothing at all that stops people from doing that. Heck, it is even mentioned by ArenaNet themselves when they talked about it as far as I remember.

GW1 supported Guild Halls for Solo guilds, it was not necessarily an easy task to accomplish but those of us that bought into GW2 from the beginning were expecting Guild Halls as part of the course and were not expecting them to be conditional on buying an expansion.

It is a shame that HoT became a pre-requisite to get them since A-Net seemed to indicate at the time that they would be part of the core game. Nothing we can do about it now though <shrug>

ArenaNet have never in any way or form even hinted at Guild Halls being part of the core game actually.
In fact they were rather clear that Guild Halls would NOT be in the game with the release version.

They did say in the early days that Guild Halls would be part of the game in the future, but they did not explicitly indicate they would be conditional on an expansion thus the natural assumption is that they would be delivered either for free (i.e. as part of an update but acquired via in-game gold – c/f GW1) or perhaps sold via the Gem store (I do remember some of the speculation about this at the time).

Either way it is moot now, A-Net are unlikely to change their stance on it.

Caligari.2641:

This matters to me as well. We have a small guild populated by close friends and family. We value our guild, and the exclusive membership. We’ve been really excited by the idea that we could win our way into a place to call our own, but more recently I’ve been worried precisely that this content will not be for us, but only for guilds with large memberships.

If that is indeed the case, I don’t really understand the rationale. So I’m hoping that I’m wrong about those impressions.

I share the exact same concerns.

What you seem to be asking for is player housing – which we have already, even though it could be (and should be) improved upon.

There has to be a minimal size for a guild (5 or 8 seems like a good number to me) or else what is the point of a guild to begin with.

There should be no minimum guild membership requirement for getting a guild hall, there should perhaps be a minimum guild membership for some upgrades that are perhaps meant for larger guilds (or perhaps a pro-rata influence cost for maintaining them).

Either way, I see no reason for anyone to object to even solo/tiny-guilds owning their own halls and gaining some perhaps arbitrary benefit from them. Campaigning for imposing a minimum membership count on their ownership is just another form of elitism and showing unreasonable prejudice against smaller guilds in general.

Solo/small guilds CAN have Guild Halls, the only thing that will be needed is help to do the 1 time only event to conquer the GH area, nothing else.

What is the big deal letting all guilds, whether large,small, or solo, get a Guild Hall easily for all to enjoy without all the requirements? If you have a guild you should be able to easily have a Hall to call home. I could understand restricting the activities and functions for larger groups but the actual structure should not be exclusive to mostly large guilds. Especially when Guild Halls are one of the best features of a paid expansion. It is not such a game changing thing that will take anything away from anyone if we can all enjoy the Guild Halls acquisition easily. Think of all the money and support Arenanet will make for the game in the store for possible Guild Halls items including all the small/solo guilds.

GW1 gives you the option to make a guild and have a GH on your own, it’s BS to force group guilding and BS to exclude solo guilds from GH’s.
if they do, they will show how much they let a part of their own 10+ years fans drop like a brick, how little they care for them and how low they have sunk.

GW2 will also give you the option to make a guild and have a Guild Hall on your own.
You might need help to claim your guild hall, but nothing stops you from getting friends to help you with it. Heck, you probably don’t even need to be there yourself if you just give leadership to one of the friends while they clear the Hall.

well i am in a guild that mostly solo an has about 47 members. but most have not been around or are in other guilds. plus most of our members have not played in a year or so. getting a guild hall sounds easy but with only 3 members that i know of that are active it be tough to get our guild hall for hot i am thinking. as for the missions that a guild has to do how can u know when members are available? i seem to be the only active at times rest are either in wvw, pvp or out solo exploring. i know my question seems silly in some ways. but i do not lfg much for help. an how can u know when its your guilds day for a bounty, trek or challanges? these are all going to be interesting to me if i ever get to try an get a bounty reward done in my guild

Sonja Teh Trapper.7012:

well i am in a guild that mostly solo an has about 47 members. but most have not been around or are in other guilds. plus most of our members have not played in a year or so. getting a guild hall sounds easy but with only 3 members that i know of that are active it be tough to get our guild hall for hot i am thinking. as for the missions that a guild has to do how can u know when members are available? i seem to be the only active at times rest are either in wvw, pvp or out solo exploring. i know my question seems silly in some ways. but i do not lfg much for help. an how can u know when its your guilds day for a bounty, trek or challanges? these are all going to be interesting to me if i ever get to try an get a bounty reward done in my guild

Usually guilds have a guildsite where they post the times/dates for upcoming events (guildmissions etc) or even use the guild panel to announce stuff (you can leave a message to the guild.

Some guilds even have a kind of poll to ask the players what time/date is preffered by its members. It’s really all in the hands of the guild to decide how they communicate with eachother and let others know of whats going on.

ty for the tip dsslive. but no really pays attention to my guild message board or posting of the messages. as for pols to doing guild bounties or mission no one pays attention! as for a guild site do u mean one for the guild? we have upgrades in bounty an the only 1 member that can active them is the main person that made the guild. an he is on every so often. an yes i am one 4 leaders that mostly on all the time in my guild lol

lordkrall.7241:

GW2 will also give you the option to make a guild and have a Guild Hall on your own.
You might need help to claim your guild hall, but nothing stops you from getting friends to help you with it. Heck, you probably don’t even need to be there yourself if you just give leadership to one of the friends while they clear the Hall.

i should never have to defend my GH just to keep it, that’s why GW1 is superior in this for miles on end.
you can play GvG but it doesn’t cost you your GH, it’s just a loss like every other TDM game.

sorudo.9054:

i should never have to defend my GH just to keep it, that’s why GW1 is superior in this for miles on end.
you can play GvG but it doesn’t cost you your GH, it’s just a loss like every other TDM game.

We have no information about how these supposed defend events will work.

It is of course also worth pointing out that the game is an MMO (as opposed to GW1). There is no reason why everything in the whole game should be catered to solo-players.

About the “defend events:” My impression is that you don’t have to defend the guild hall to keep it. It’s a lore comment, not a game play mechanic, that the halls are offered to those willing to keep fighting for them. They did after all say that after you unlock the hall it’s yours forever, or until you capture a new hall.

Maybe there are defend events you can trigger on purpose for fun? Though that begs the question of what happens if the event fails.

It could just be wishful thinking on my part. I was one of the stronger proponents of and lobbyers in the Guild Halls CDI for not having ownership decay, and I’ve been seizing on bits and pieces of blogs and commentaries to support my hope that they listened.

At some point, the game has to introduce awesome stuff to do with your guild (“your guild”, in this instance, meaning the generally accepted definition of ‘group of allied people’, rather than the mechanical thing-that-carries-your-tag).

If they can’t introduce group-oriented content through Guild Halls, which seems to be what this thread is aiming to accomplish…then where in the bloody blazes can they introduce it?

Remember: the Halls are Queensdale-sized personal maps, not singular buildings. One man isn’t supposed to be able to hold a Queensdale-sized map by himself. Furthermore, the various guild-related functions a Hall gives you are also available in the Guild Initiative building in Lion’s Arch, so you’re not losing out there.

Guild Halls are not player housing, that “freely and easily available thing” other MMOs use. Guild Halls are entire fraggin’ fortresses, complete with grounds, that are supposed to come with serious obligations, lore-wise. If I’m a nasty small-hearted Grinch who hates children, kicks puppies, and Ruins Fun because I would like the guild content in GW2 to actually involve doing things with one’s guild rather sabotaging/cutting the group-oriented content so one man and his bank guild can get a particularly shiny and impressive bank and thus continue to dodge the need to just buy bank slots proper, then oh well.

Bah I say, and quite possibly humbug.

lordkrall.7241:

sorudo.9054:

i should never have to defend my GH just to keep it, that’s why GW1 is superior in this for miles on end.
you can play GvG but it doesn’t cost you your GH, it’s just a loss like every other TDM game.

We have no information about how these supposed defend events will work.

It is of course also worth pointing out that the game is an MMO (as opposed to GW1). There is no reason why everything in the whole game should be catered to solo-players.

GW1 is an MMO just like GW2, it’s a different form but an MMO nonetheless.
also, there is no reason to make everything for groups while screwing over solo players, just like they do with pretty much everything.

sorudo.9054:

GW1 is an MMO just like GW2, it’s a different form but an MMO nonetheless.
also, there is no reason to make everything for groups while screwing over solo players, just like they do with pretty much everything.

No, GW1 is a COORPG not an MMORPG.

Pretty much everything screwing over solo players? Really?

The vast majority of the game can be done without ever grouping up.

Found this info from Pax South 2015 via Wiki regarding smaller guilds and Guild Halls:

We pressed ArenaNet for more information on guild halls — especially on how small guilds will fare compared to massive ones — but the studio didn’t spill. Smaller guilds are in the discussion, however. Johanson elaborated, “It is important to us that our guilds feel like they are all important in our world, and we’ll make sure they are treated respectfully.” If you’re panicked about whether your guild will have a chance, hopefully that helps stop your hyperventilating.

Further Wiki info of interest for small/solo guilds:

Guild missions — will be available to all guilds and will not require upgrades to unlock. Each guild will have a limited amount of missions available and additional missions can be unlocked by upgrading the guild. Missions are free to activate and guilds are able to retry each if the mission is failed. Only one mission can be active at a time. Guild Challenges and Guild Puzzles will become instanced
Guild Portal in the guild hall will allow players to travel to waypoints near each mission’s starting location

Regarding the Guild Portal in the Guild Hall- It seems that missions will be a basic function for “all” guilds moving forward. Guild Portals will be a part of that mechanic. So even smaller/solo guilds will have some sort of Guild Hall. It will not just be exclusive to only “larger group content”.

lordkrall.7241:

sorudo.9054:

GW1 is an MMO just like GW2, it’s a different form but an MMO nonetheless.
also, there is no reason to make everything for groups while screwing over solo players, just like they do with pretty much everything.

No, GW1 is a COORPG not an MMORPG.

Pretty much everything screwing over solo players? Really?

The vast majority of the game can be done without ever grouping up.

so dungeons, fractals, champions, sPvP, legendaries, etc… are made for solo players….
seriously, the fast majority is made for grouping, only the exploring part and specific instances are made for solo players and that’s it.

sorudo.9054:

so dungeons, fractals, champions, sPvP, legendaries, etc… are made for solo players….
seriously, the fast majority is made for grouping, only the exploring part and specific instances are made for solo players and that’s it.

Dungeons and Fractals are only the only part on that list that is not solo-player things. And even then solo players can complete rather many of them. Champions can be soloed, and even if they can’t you don’t have to group up in order to complete them since they are open world there are usually people around after all.

sPvP can easily be joined solo and the only part of legendaries that have anything that requires grouping in the slightest would be dungeons, and those tokens can be gotten via sPvP, which can be done solo.

lordkrall.7241:

sorudo.9054:

so dungeons, fractals, champions, sPvP, legendaries, etc… are made for solo players….
seriously, the fast majority is made for grouping, only the exploring part and specific instances are made for solo players and that’s it.

Dungeons and Fractals are only the only part on that list that is not solo-player things. And even then solo players can complete rather many of them. Champions can be soloed, and even if they can’t you don’t have to group up in order to complete them since they are open world there are usually people around after all.

sPvP can easily be joined solo and the only part of legendaries that have anything that requires grouping in the slightest would be dungeons, and those tokens can be gotten via sPvP, which can be done solo.

now you’re searching an excuse, they CAN be soloed but it’s not MADE to solo.
just because ppl go out of their ways to solo group oriented things doesn’t make it a solo thing, it’s group oriented regardless how you look at it.

But the fact remain that you don’t have to group for the vast majority of the content in the game.

I think it’s safe to assume you won’t be able to do it solo, since guilds are by definition a group of people any guild content will be designed for groups.

But they have said smaller guilds will be able to get halls and haven’t said what the actual group size is. It might be 15, or 10, or 5 or 3. It might scale to however many people go in. We don’t know.

Worst case scenario those of us in guilds which can’t muster enough people on our own will have to group up with other people to complete the hall claiming, then go our separate ways again.