Guild Wars 2

Agreed the expansion is way too grindy.

They really messed this up.

Heart of Thorns is easily the best part of Guild Wars 2 now (at least the first 2 areas.. tangled depths is terribly designed)…

Why would they make this content available to only level 80’s and make it a grinding experience. These areas and the music are amazing and the best I’ve ever seen in this game and to lock them behind walls that new players can’t experience is a massive mistake.

Requiring groups for Hero challenges is such a disappointment especially when playing on an empty server..

It’s obvious ANet has gone back and changed the formula to a pre megaserver method to allow players on their servers to play together more.. but this is terrible for servers that don’t have high activity.

In maybe 10 tries or so I have yet to see a successful Auric Basin megaevent. And why do you guys allow griefers to spoil this event with the trigger blossom mechanic?

A brilliant posting by a clearly educated individual.

I relate, office most of the day, traffic and family evenings.

I use the little game play at night, when the house go quite and sleep does not settle in, to run some WVW/EOTM.

Sadly the new content does not suit my time deprived schedule however, I respect that there are indeed individuals with all the time in the world that wanted this. Al I am saying is, provide multiple opportunities to obtain the mastery’s.

They could have perhaps even reduced the time obtaining mastery’s in WVW/EOTM by a great amount.

I would not have felt such MAYOR buyers remorse if running WVW/EOTM unlocked the mastery’s because I would have had great fun doing what I like AND unlock them, which I believe was Anet’s philosophy at some point.

Great post, sad you can only like once…

However i will point out that the design of the maps and the overall expansion was a gamble, either you like it or not but so far you have to admit that they put a lot of efforts in the animation, events, new enemy models which is great but it is lacking a bit on the cosmetic and new gear aesthetic side, i hope in time they will add more non gemstore stuff.

The masteries i have no problem with them at all, we knew for a very, very long time that they would have to be unlocked and would need them to progress in the jungle, no surprises here we knew that was coming.

The elites specs however are the MAJOR issues here. A small ammount of work to get them would have been fine, for instance if they actually cost the same 60hp like the other lines, would make it properly fair while allowing you do work on your alternative characters.
Elites specs being overpriced, with the hero challenges being locked behind masteries ( like that one in verdant brink with 3 vet frogs and requiring level 4 Itzal poison mastery to grab…), they locked a major selling element and core gameplay component from players behind that system.
For those who had the core map completed well it isnt so bad but working your way to the Herald from scratch will be a major pain since it will require every single hero challenges in HoT or taking it onto yourself to complete the core maps.

Really the only issue i have with the expansion is the ferocity with which Anet blocked them from us, having access to them wont break the game in any ways and would make it so much fun.

Andred.1087:

If you don’t like it, don’t play. It’s a kittening game after all. Maybe they’ll change it, but honestly I doubt it, and I think they’re totally justified if they don’t. It’s not the first time people have whined incessantly about something and ultimately got over it or quit. Game just hit 7 million players… they aren’t going to miss a few hundred who can’t be bothered to have a little patience.

Just hit 7 millions yes but i fear with the current state of the game they will lose a lot more than few hundreds, even if we say that only 20% of the player base is not satisfied, how much is 20% of 7 millions?
So out of these 1,4 millions players that leave the game, how much money would they lose of that?
Plus the bad reputation the game will get because of the leaving players, bad reputation do not encourage sells, no sells= no money, no money = less content and no content= less players and thats a vicious circle.

No point being stubborn here because sooner or later even you will suffer from these consequences because this situation can potentially kill the game completely.

I believe Anet will do something within these next 2 weeks, it’s very important imo that they do given November.

In one week the month of November is on us and after 2 we start to hit big releases. November will include such titles as: Need For Speed Underground 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 3, Fallout 4, Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void, Tomb Raider, Star Wars: Battlefront.

Something will most likely be done before games like these start turning heads.

Grind to get to next story -Check
Do story-check
Get hit with another grind spot to next story…. cry….

Gw2 at least had hearts and other MMO’s have quests yet in HOT all we have are event chains in which all you do is kill X mobs till the next part of the chain. They stated at the launch of GW2 that they were against those old kill X mob quests yet these event chains are indeed a form of kill X mobs. Heck first Heart humans run into in GW2 can be completed many different ways they could kill wurms, water plants, or complete an event that was in the area at the time like put out fires. All in the same heart and counted for completion these event chains are just nonstop mobs and nonstop killing kill X mobs till the next event chain.

I wasn’t the only one feeling that way…

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

3 days.
Everyone had tried all their toons into the new maps. Tried all the content. Gotten all the rewards. Crafted all the new stuff. Beaten and done everything in 3 days.

Really?

And you call it a grind? Seems that it wasn’t difficult enough.

Did you play non-stop for 3 days? I played for 6 hours and didn’t uncover all the zones because I got caught up in events I saw happening or trying to get to a new cliff, tree or ledge to see what I could see.

3 days…

wow

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. Last night I tried farming some events but was forced to give up on all of them because no one else was doing them. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

The way the game was advertised to begin with?
From the FAQ when gw2 came out:

Will Guild Wars 2 be solo-able?
Yes. You will be able to advance your character to the maximum level without ever joining a group, if you so desire. Most content will be designed in a solo-friendly way, though often with mechanisms for scaling up in difficulty when more players are involved. This will give players the option to experience the game however they prefer.

It’s always been a grind. Getting all those non-soloable achievements points took forever.

Generally I like the expansion, personally I don’t mind the grind, but…. besides that anyone who thinks this is a big grind obviously hasn’t played many MMO’s.

The “grind” as an complaint really doesn’t work.
What does work is that so much is not soloable, that decision will come back and bite them, and…
…Not a fan of some been able to scoot to massive mastery numbers, that destroyed the level playing field in the same way the heavy nerf of achievement point rewards back a bit did. Never understand why companies undermine the competitive integrity of their own game like that. shrug.

But otherwise, generally great expansion.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

Thats not how progress and new things work, the game moved forward – it will require some adjustment but if you can take the step I think you’ll find it rewarding.

Thangore.2935:

. Main selling point of the expac, only available after grindfest 2015. Making PvE essential for WvW, insane. And that mastery to jump on mushrooms, maybe there is a hidden message there…

bolded and italicized for emphasis. i did not buy this game to be stuck in pve for an unforeseeable amount of weeks.

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

Thats not how progress and new things work, the game moved forward – it will require some adjustment but if you can take the step I think you’ll find it rewarding.

see, there’s been a crowd of ‘why should i go into wvw for map completion’ for years now. you are using the reverse argument now. upon quoting the design philosophy for guild wars 2, as well as heart of thorns, you might want to rethink making that argument.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

The way the game was advertised to begin with?
From the FAQ when gw2 came out:

Will Guild Wars 2 be solo-able?
Yes. You will be able to advance your character to the maximum level without ever joining a group, if you so desire. Most content will be designed in a solo-friendly way, though often with mechanisms for scaling up in difficulty when more players are involved. This will give players the option to experience the game however they prefer.

Unless I missed something, that question about solo Guild Wars 2 was about when IT came out, not when HoT comes out.

Two completely different things.
Can you solo PvP?
Can you solo WvW?
Can you solo World Bosses? Teq? Shat? Shadow Behemoth?
Those are all Guild Wars 2 core game items that you CANNOT solo. Well, you can, but you will fail.

Join a guild, make some friends…

Now we know why Rytlock was gone for so long; he was grinding hero points in the Mist! LOL.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

Now we know why Rytlock was gone for so long; he was grinding hero points in the Mist! LOL.

Must be lol

So SW grinding for gold is fine, but when they give you a reason to play and actually unlock things you complain? I love going back to my characters again and leveling to discover new traits. Sorry to hear that so many players want free stuff but instant gratification is not why I play games. Also, I hear many players talking about how much time they have as if Anet should make things easier because you have a job. I run a business and work on the side. I may not have kids, but I can make time here and there. This is not the place to moan about being an adult and not being able to play for 6-8 hours a day.

not sure what is more pathetic, the game being dead 3 days after expansion release or ANet defence force shilling on forums in their free time, doing it for free

MHCerberus.1385:

So optional grinding is fine, but when they give you mandatory grind and story gating you complain?

Adjusted to fit the current situation more accurately.

Another important difference is that the SW grind is repeatable, it stays rewarding forever. Not so much with mastery/hero points. No one is going to farm a hero point. Once most people are done with the new maps new players are going to be screwed.

Lightsbane.9012:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

Thats not how progress and new things work, the game moved forward – it will require some adjustment but if you can take the step I think you’ll find it rewarding.

see, there’s been a crowd of ‘why should i go into wvw for map completion’ for years now. you are using the reverse argument now. upon quoting the design philosophy for guild wars 2, as well as heart of thorns, you might want to rethink making that argument.

I never agreed with that argument or that crowd.. Might not want to put me into a box when you do not know me.

Andred.1087:

If you don’t like it, don’t play. It’s a kittening game after all. Maybe they’ll change it, but honestly I doubt it, and I think they’re totally justified if they don’t. It’s not the first time people have whined incessantly about something and ultimately got over it or quit. Game just hit 7 million players… they aren’t going to miss a few hundred who can’t be bothered to have a little patience.

the 7million is total not active so that’s a huge misrepresentation, there would only be a small fraction of that which is active. Majority of people I’ve spoken to think this expansion is unfun and I personally will no longer recommend this game to Anyone.

I don’t mind the new world mastery system too much, yet, as I am in no rush. But having to redo old world tyria (xp) to farm up unlocks for mastery points I have waiting is a bit much for someone who has played since bwe2.

Just wanted to say… Another game having an even worse grind does not make this one any better… I don’t purchase a product for it to be “less terrible” in certain areas, such as grinding. I buy it because I want it to be better than what its competitors can offer.

Also, you have people literally going afk in CoF with the mouse button tapped down. You lock so much important stuff behind masteries and a lot of people feel like doing stuff like fractals, etc, is pointless without having all the bonuses and collections linked to it.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

Now we know why Rytlock was gone for so long; he was grinding hero points in the Mist! LOL.

Ok, I’ll admit it… this one made me laugh.

Coulter.2315:

Guys you literally CANNOT grind for Hero Points; they are unique, in different locations and cannot be repeated. Elite Specs cannot be achieved with grind (why do people keep saying they are grinding for Hero Points?).

Except: Many of the HP’s are hard locked behind Masteries, therefore… grind out that XP to get the mastery to get the HP. Or, take all your alts on an HP tour of central tyria. This to me is a grind, as it is not a fun use of time though will be a requirement to get the new spec as soon as one can to actually use it in the new content.

For the past 3 years, GW2 has been VERY alt friendly through its design. The HoT expansion turns that on its head. It is a needless time gate for what is one of the premiere reasons people paid money for the expansion to begin with. There are already enough goals and things to do in GW2 to absorb one’s time, we don’t need an arbitrary one just to get to the fun.

Bhima.9518:

Coulter.2315:

Guys you literally CANNOT grind for Hero Points; they are unique, in different locations and cannot be repeated. Elite Specs cannot be achieved with grind (why do people keep saying they are grinding for Hero Points?).

Except: Many of the HP’s are hard locked behind Masteries, therefore… grind out that XP to get the mastery to get the HP.

And you can unlock the full spec with access to Gliding, Updraft and Bouncing Mushrooms – this does not take long and you can get the experience from brand new event chains repeating nothing for a grindless Elite Spec.

Anyone telling you that you need to grind is lying or forcing themselves to do something silly.

Coulter.2315:

Bhima.9518:

Coulter.2315:

Guys you literally CANNOT grind for Hero Points; they are unique, in different locations and cannot be repeated. Elite Specs cannot be achieved with grind (why do people keep saying they are grinding for Hero Points?).

Except: Many of the HP’s are hard locked behind Masteries, therefore… grind out that XP to get the mastery to get the HP.

And you can unlock the full spec with access to Gliding, Updraft and Bouncing Mushrooms – this does not take long and you can get the experience from brand new event chains repeating nothing for a grindless Elite Spec.

Anyone telling you that you need to grind is lying or forcing themselves to do something silly.

If you need a group at any of the HPs, then it is still fail. Open World is supposed to be the Soloer’s playground. Group content should stay relegated to world bosses, epic event chains (where as the map will naturally be funneled to the conclusion of anyway), dungeons, fractals, and now raids. Needing groups for a hero challenge (emphasis on hero…not heroes) is rather dumb design, as is gating them behind masteries.

Coulter.2315:

Bhima.9518:

Coulter.2315:

Guys you literally CANNOT grind for Hero Points; they are unique, in different locations and cannot be repeated. Elite Specs cannot be achieved with grind (why do people keep saying they are grinding for Hero Points?).

Except: Many of the HP’s are hard locked behind Masteries, therefore… grind out that XP to get the mastery to get the HP.

And you can unlock the full spec with access to Gliding, Updraft and Bouncing Mushrooms – this does not take long and you can get the experience from brand new event chains repeating nothing for a grindless Elite Spec.

Anyone telling you that you need to grind is lying or forcing themselves to do something silly.

That is true on the characters that you have full core map completion on, but any of your other characters… you’ll be left with either grinding out masteries to get the extra HP in Maguuma, or going back into central tyria to grab the HP’s you’ve already gotten on a plethora of other characters before. It feels like preparing to have fun which is exactly what a grind is to me, and it is one of the things GW2 originally did a good job in its game design to diminish. Again, I don’t mind the mastery system (though I agree with the OP that you should just get basic gliding right when you enter Maguuma), but gating the new specializations with 400HP is a needless contrivance that just wastes time and diminishes the alt-friendly nature of the game.

I don’t think HoT is that much more grindy than the base game. The difference is that you have a huge world to explore in the base game, with lots of different things to do to keep you occupied. The variety helps to keep the base game interesting, without feeling so repetitive.

HoT, on the other hand, is a much smaller world. There’s only a handful of maps, and some are inaccessible at first. There’s a smaller variety of things to do. Level 80 has become a new starting point, because we now have to earn Masteries (effectively, new levels). And people who didn’t have a bunch of Skill/Hero Points saved up now have to work for more if they want to train up their Specializations.

In some ways it’s not all that different than when the game first launched 3 years ago. People wanted to rush though things, they wanted to reach the end quickly. Even today, it still takes some time to work a character up to 80 (without Tomes).

Yeah, I’d like to be able to progress through HoT faster. But at the same time, I didn’t expect it to be easy. This is GW2’s first expansion, and some things are bound to be problematic. But if there’s any reason I could lose interest in HoT, it’s not because of the grind, it’s because of the lack of variety. There’s only so many times I can run around the same map, doing the same events… especially when there is very little variety in the events.

But I’ll see how it feels in a couple weeks. Maybe once I got access to more of the maps, and more Masteries (which, thankfully, are account wide), HoT won’t seem so grindy.