Guild Wars 2

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Do you mean, perhaps, Activities?

I believe there are an excess of Mastery Points to attain; more than enough to finish all Mastery Tracks, with several left over.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Do you mean, perhaps, Activities?

I believe there are an excess of Mastery Points to attain; more than enough to finish all Mastery Tracks, with several left over.

Since they are talking about a legendary short bow Im not sure but I guess its map completing?

Or they need to get more mastery points in core tyria to unlock legendary crafting maybe.

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy. for some, that is wvw, for others it is map completing zones, and for some it is achievements.

if Anet removed all the things that people may not like when it comes to making a legendary, there would be nothing to do and they’d just mail you one.

nottsgman.8206:

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy. for some, that is wvw, for others it is map completing zones, and for some it is achievements.

if Anet removed all the things that people may not like when it comes to making a legendary, there would be nothing to do and they’d just mail you one.

Well you CAN get the first gen ones with just gold.

Linken.6345:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Do you mean, perhaps, Activities?

I believe there are an excess of Mastery Points to attain; more than enough to finish all Mastery Tracks, with several left over.

Since they are talking about a legendary short bow Im not sure but I guess its map completing?

Or they need to get more mastery points in core tyria to unlock legendary crafting maybe.

In order to buy the 4 parts for Gift of Insights you need to fully learn Gliding, Itzel, Nuhoch and Exalted masteries.

If legendaries were easy to obtain , everyone would have them all. I personally don’t play and achievement hunt. But no mastery point was excessively difficult to obtain.

I am at 186 mastery and I have 13 central tyria left over and 31 HoT points….
There should be enough…

Not enough mp for the hot masteries? LUL come back when you have a real arguement.

I am at Mastery level 186 and I have no Mastery Points left…

In a year, I can probably say the same thing Pax says, that I have X surplus points. Simply because the longer you play, the more of those points you will eventually get. I never met any legendary in The Silverwastes, but by simply playing the game, I will eventually kill them all and that’s another 5 Tyria points. I might even get bored and collect the coins there for another one, or finish a collection.

Same in HoT, maybe one day I play in Tangled Depths someone calls out to do Regurgicidal or kill the Chak Driver and I join and get the Mastery Points.

Then, like Pax, I could post here how easy it was and that there should be enough.

My point is: there are enough points if you play long enough. It’s much more difficult when you start levelling the masteries. I had to explicitly go for Mastery Points to get to 186. After getting all the easy ones, communes and strongboxes, I spent time researching what I have to do to get more. I don’t think I would have maxed the Tyria line without LW Season 2 either. You cannot simply play in The Silverwastes for a few days and expect to get all the points there, the legendaries are basically time gated.

And I am not alone with that, I spoke with people who also struggled to get the last points. But of course, several months later, they have more than necessary. If you want to max your masteries within a reasonable time, it’s difficult and you need to plan what you are doing. If you just play for 3 or 4 years, you will eventually get more than enough and think it was easy. The hard part is to do it without having to play for 3 years.

It took me about 3½ months from the day I started with this game to get to 186. If those points were as abundant as the posters before me want to make us believe, we would see many more players with level 186.

nottsgman.8206:

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy.

Not sure why.

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

Pax.3548:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

How does “I don’t like this” = “you are lazy”? I don’t like to eat squash. If eating squash was a requirement to finish becoming a chef, the fact that I don’t really want to do it doesn’t mean I’m lazy or want it for free. That is completely illogical.

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

How does “I don’t like this” = “you are lazy”? I don’t like to eat squash. If eating squash was a requirement to finish becoming a chef, the fact that I don’t really want to do it doesn’t mean I’m lazy or want it for free. That is completely illogical.

Lazy as “I want to make something but want to do it with the less effort possible, including the stuff I don’t like” call it what you want, If you want to do something everyone must do if they want the same thing, you’ll have to accept doing everything needed to craft that legendary, if you need to complete archievements for it, then you’ll have to do it, simply as that, raging that you must do things you don’t like at the forum to craft stuff that is not obligatory is just whining about something you’re too lazy to do

Pax.3548:

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

How does “I don’t like this” = “you are lazy”? I don’t like to eat squash. If eating squash was a requirement to finish becoming a chef, the fact that I don’t really want to do it doesn’t mean I’m lazy or want it for free. That is completely illogical.

Lazy as “I want to make something but want to do it with the less effort possible, including the stuff I don’t like” call it what you want, If you want to do something everyone must do if they want the same thing, you’ll have to accept doing everything needed to craft that legendary, if you need to complete archievements for it, then you’ll have to do it, simply as that, raging that you must do things you don’t like at the forum to craft stuff that is not obligatory is just whining about something you’re too lazy to do

Complaining to a company about something you don’t like about their product is perfectly acceptable. No, you don’t have to accept doing what everyone else did. Map completion used to include WvW and now it doesn’t. Things change – often from player input which Anet themselves said.

And you can continue to say “lazy”, but since it is obviously the wrong word that’s on you lol.

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

How does “I don’t like this” = “you are lazy”? I don’t like to eat squash. If eating squash was a requirement to finish becoming a chef, the fact that I don’t really want to do it doesn’t mean I’m lazy or want it for free. That is completely illogical.

Lazy as “I want to make something but want to do it with the less effort possible, including the stuff I don’t like” call it what you want, If you want to do something everyone must do if they want the same thing, you’ll have to accept doing everything needed to craft that legendary, if you need to complete archievements for it, then you’ll have to do it, simply as that, raging that you must do things you don’t like at the forum to craft stuff that is not obligatory is just whining about something you’re too lazy to do

Complaining to a company about something you don’t like about their product is perfectly acceptable. No, you don’t have to accept doing what everyone else did. Map completion used to include WvW and now it doesn’t. Things change – often from player input which Anet themselves said.

And you can continue to say “lazy”, but since it is obviously the wrong word that’s on you lol.

I’m not so sure that WvW was changed due to player input. It’s just as likely it was changed due to the upcoming desert borderlands, which would have a strong affect on a side’s ability to complete the map, due to all the completion being bound to the alpine borderlands. Anet had to either make it so desert borderlands completion was a thing, or take it out of WvW altogether.

There are plenty of things people don’t like to do in a game to get option gear/achievements. I’m not sure anyone likes to get shield kills. Plenty of people don’t like running dungeons, but you need to to get a dungeon master title. Even if you like running dungeons, you might not like path 4 of Arah or the Aetherblade path.

Asking for those to be removed from the dungeon master title because you don’t like them makes no sense.

ALL mastery points are achievements. Everyone one of them, including the mastery insights you commune with. But if they were all communes as well as achievements, then no one would be complaining. It’s not that they’re achievements that’s the problem…it’s the nature of specific achievemements.

But then you have a problem of people who don’t like one specific set of achievements who want X removed and people who don’t like another set of achievements that want Y removed. If Anet removed everything that everyone didn’t like there would literally be nothing left to play to get your maseteries done.

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

But saying Anet should not have mastery points bound to achievements because you don’t like achievements generally isn’t likely to be helpful. It’s the core of the system and it’s not likely to change.

The adventures were one thing because they were so far out of the realm of what people expect in an MMO, but they’ve become less and less necessary as time has progressed.

The problem with making something so easy everyone can do it is that you then lose people from the other end of the spectrum.

There’s lots of stuff I don’t like to do in this game and there are rewards tied to all of it. But if they took out everything I didn’t like in this game the game would have far fewer players.

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Djinn.9245:

Pax.3548:

Dorothy Sapphire.4392:

Yes I really hate that A-Net is forcing me to do achievements that I care nothing about and don’t really want to do. Not including enough Mastery points on the HoT maps themselves to finish all the masteries is a bad decision on their part. In order to get the last 12 mastery points I need to finish the last mastery I have to do achievements, and I do not like doing achievements. Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow? A-Net please I know you can find challenging ways to add more mastery spots on the maps themselves so those of us who don’t like do the achievements don’t have to. It is like telling every play you must do raids or you must play wvw or pvp. Let us play our way.

Unbelievable, you want anet to mail you your wanted legendary too? there is a reason why those are called “legendaries” and crafting most of them will mean a lot of time, work, patience and sometimes doing things you don’t like. You don’t wanna do archievements? forget about your legendary weapon and there you go.

Seriously ppl are getting more and more lazy by the day, what good are legendaries if you can easily get them? where will the satisfaction of making something difficult go? sigh…

How does “I don’t like this” = “you are lazy”? I don’t like to eat squash. If eating squash was a requirement to finish becoming a chef, the fact that I don’t really want to do it doesn’t mean I’m lazy or want it for free. That is completely illogical.

Lazy as “I want to make something but want to do it with the less effort possible, including the stuff I don’t like” call it what you want, If you want to do something everyone must do if they want the same thing, you’ll have to accept doing everything needed to craft that legendary, if you need to complete archievements for it, then you’ll have to do it, simply as that, raging that you must do things you don’t like at the forum to craft stuff that is not obligatory is just whining about something you’re too lazy to do

Complaining to a company about something you don’t like about their product is perfectly acceptable. No, you don’t have to accept doing what everyone else did. Map completion used to include WvW and now it doesn’t. Things change – often from player input which Anet themselves said.

And you can continue to say “lazy”, but since it is obviously the wrong word that’s on you lol.

Not sure about that, as I’m pretty sure I’ve made my point (english isn’t even my native language), this post of yours though…

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

30 of 185 HoT Mastery Points are coming adventures. 53 are from Raids and LW S3. Not everybody purchases LW S3 and even less people can get the points from raids. For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries. You need 137 HoT Mastery Points to do that.

Even if you get gold in all Adventures, all communes/strongboxes and even do all collections and crazy JPs, you still have to either do raids or purchase an episode LW S3.

It is not easy to max out masteries, that’s why we see much more players with 140 to 170 or less MPs than with 186. On the other hand we see much more characters at level 80 than <80, because maxing your character level is indeed easy. The surplus points in the new zones are a step into the right direction, but 30 points from adventures is a lot.

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

30 of 185 HoT Mastery Points are coming adventures. 53 are from Raids and LW S3. Not everybody purchases LW S3 and even less people can get the points from raids. For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries. You need 137 HoT Mastery Points to do that.

Even if you get gold in all Adventures, all communes/strongboxes and even do all collections and crazy JPs, you still have to either do raids or purchase an episode LW S3.

It is not easy to max out masteries, that’s why we see much more players with 140 to 170 or less MPs than with 186. On the other hand we see much more characters at level 80 than <80, because maxing your character level is indeed easy. The surplus points in the new zones are a step into the right direction, but 30 points from adventures is a lot.

You really think the majority of players are from within the last week or so? Even that makes no sense, since Episode 5 would still be free, and not need to be purchased.

The only players that would need to purchase an Episode would be those buying the expansion after it launches, as every other player would receive at least one Episode of Season Three at no cost.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You really think the majority of players are from within the last week or so?

How do you come to that conclusion?

I wrote: “For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries.”

I didn’t say that because of LW S3, but mainly because of raids and MPs that come from collections or other challenges that take a long time or a lot of luck. But there is still some truth in adding LW S3 to the list of things many players cannot do. I’m not thinking about the people who joined within the last week, but those who join in the future. Everybody who starts GW2 now has an even mkore difficult time to max masteries if he doesn’t buy the S3 episodes. This adventure thing doesn’t only affect existing players, but more so those who will join the game. It affected me when I joined 4 months ago because I didn’t get the first 3 episodes for free.

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

30 of 185 HoT Mastery Points are coming adventures. 53 are from Raids and LW S3. Not everybody purchases LW S3 and even less people can get the points from raids. For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries. You need 137 HoT Mastery Points to do that.

Even if you get gold in all Adventures, all communes/strongboxes and even do all collections and crazy JPs, you still have to either do raids or purchase an episode LW S3.

It is not easy to max out masteries, that’s why we see much more players with 140 to 170 or less MPs than with 186. On the other hand we see much more characters at level 80 than <80, because maxing your character level is indeed easy. The surplus points in the new zones are a step into the right direction, but 30 points from adventures is a lot.

People who have been here all along and play even semi regularly have gotten LS 3 for free. I imagine that’s a substantial portion of the playerbase. Raid masteries are covered by raiding. If you don’t raid you simply don’t need raid masteries and if you do raid, there are enough masteries in raids to get them.

It doesn’t really matter if players have 186 ore 147, as long as they masteries allow them to do what they need to do in the game.

The ONLY real issue is the spirit shard issue. Does a person who’s not going for a hot legendary need every mastery? Nope, they don’t. And if they are going for a HoT mastery, the work is fine. It’s a legendary after all.

Faaris.8013:

Everybody who starts GW2 now has an even mkore difficult time to max masteries if he doesn’t buy the S3 episodes.

But that’s ignoring the fact that the additional masteries are only required for S3 maps. If you haven’t unlocked S3 why would you care about lava tubes and oakheart essences?

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t really matter if players have 186 ore 147, as long as they masteries allow them to do what they need to do in the game.

costepj.5120:

But that’s ignoring the fact that the additional masteries are only required for S3 maps. If you haven’t unlocked S3 why would you care about lava tubes and oakheart essences?

For me, that sounds weird, but sure, my idea of playing might be different from what most people consider fun. From a pragmatic point of view, you are both right. You don’t need fractal/raid/S3 masteries if you don’t play the content. But having a “186” at your name tag does make a difference in how others treat you and it feels “complete”. And it was so much fun when I saw that XP bar moving again when I hit 186. It’s not logical, because you only get a spirit shard each time you fill up the bar, but the feeling is nice. And we are not playing the game out of logical reasons, like in real life, we want things we don’t necessarily need.

Taking that to an extreme, which masteries are really needed? If you don’t plan on getting a legendary weapon, you don’t need the masteries. No fractals, raids or Season 3, no need for the masteries. Even if you bought LW S3 episode 5 but don’t like Draconis Mons much and only visit it to get an ascended trinket, the mastery doesn’t make much sense. To be honest, I rarely play there, and not always use the spiderman mastery.

If you follow that line of thinking to an extreme, we could probably say that most people actively use only maybe 20 mastery points playing the game. Everything in the Pact Commander line is useless to me except auto-loot. I basically never use anything Exalted Lore offers, and Auric Silver has no value. I could go on with that, but the truth for me is that I still wanted that 186, simply because completing things is fun.

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

30 of 185 HoT Mastery Points are coming adventures. 53 are from Raids and LW S3. Not everybody purchases LW S3 and even less people can get the points from raids. For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries. You need 137 HoT Mastery Points to do that.

Even if you get gold in all Adventures, all communes/strongboxes and even do all collections and crazy JPs, you still have to either do raids or purchase an episode LW S3.

It is not easy to max out masteries, that’s why we see much more players with 140 to 170 or less MPs than with 186. On the other hand we see much more characters at level 80 than <80, because maxing your character level is indeed easy. The surplus points in the new zones are a step into the right direction, but 30 points from adventures is a lot.

I want to point out that Raid and Ancient Magic masteries are NOT required for the Maguuma gift section of the weapon crafting. They are required to get the Spirtshard track for HOT zones after the fact.. which is irritating, but only requires you to do one thing each to open the tracks. The MPs in LS3/Raids gained also count toward the Magumma mastery pool, which can be put back toward the main HOT mastery tracks. Thats how I unlocked Leyline gliding, which in turn made getting the remaining MPs in HOT a hell of a lot easier.

The only real sticking point is the way Adventures work, with the very uneven difficulty distribution of the reward tiers between them. There are a couple where gold is trivial, but bronze is unforgiving, or a function of luck (I’m looking at you Masks of the Fallen). Adventures also integrate other mastery tracks….. leading to a whole situation where its not clear what you Masteries you need to get Silver/Gold, while also stagnating progress toward those tracks.

This is one of the few areas of the game where the level of intuitive design should be at its highest; yet relies more on outside factors then any other part of the game. If this type of design approach was used in Raids, players would had burned the servers on Wing 1 of Spirit Vale.

All that said…. Achievements are unavoidable for 1 simple reason…. its extremely cheap and easy to do. A side benefit is also forcing players to utilize more of the content. That is generally positive from a UX stand point, but the pacing has to be perfect for it to work. For example…. some of the VB and TD achievements look straight forward, but are really obtuse in practice. Locations are unclear, event states can keep them effectively locked out, many of the gliding related ones have really harsh failure set backs, and not enough of the level design signals Metroidvaina elements at the needed clarity to keep it consistent.

In fact, the Exp requirement for leveling them does a serious disservice to the MV aspect, as it outright disrupts exploration pacing in big way. When a person spots a thing, they’re initial instinct is to figure out how get up there. They try to reverse engineer the area using known mechanics- and if a player element is missing, it has to be immediately apparent what the bridging solution is, so that it stands out when the player unlocks the needed function later on in the game. But in an effort to make them easy to spot early on, they make the reward obvious, but not the bridging solutions….. especially with gliding, given how free form it is. The problem here is players getting too acclimated to the area from frequent transit, and eventually forgetting the puzzle is there. Tarir has this problem all over the place, as most of the puzzles are elevated, but the transit zones are gauntlets that pull the players attention almost constantly. May of the gliding puzzles wrap around areas, which disorients the player as they try to follow walls or path ways to figure out where the entry point is.

I’m almost positive that the level design and Mastery track layout were done completely separate from each other, leading to a very “check list” approach that results in very jarring breaks in pacing for players on an initial playthrough, if they reach an area too early in the track progress. I had dropped HOT masteries completely during the expansions height out of frustration, and only came back to them later after spare LS3 MPs allowed me to rapidly finish the mobility unlocks. That second run went a hell of a lot smoother, and was utterly shocked at how many obtuse dead ends there were when I realized the lack of level signaling.

You said a majority of the players must complete Adventures. I doubt a majority of the players have not been around for Living World Season 3, thus they have access to all those Mastery Points (and can skip Adventures). No reason for them to have to purchase Living World Season 3 Episodes. No current player would have to purchase a Living Story Episode (any current player would have access to, at least, one free Episode; actually, two free Episodes, as there is another one on its way).

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t really matter if players have 186 ore 147, as long as they masteries allow them to do what they need to do in the game.

costepj.5120:

But that’s ignoring the fact that the additional masteries are only required for S3 maps. If you haven’t unlocked S3 why would you care about lava tubes and oakheart essences?

For me, that sounds weird, but sure, my idea of playing might be different from what most people consider fun. From a pragmatic point of view, you are both right. You don’t need fractal/raid/S3 masteries if you don’t play the content. But having a “186” at your name tag does make a difference in how others treat you and it feels “complete”. And it was so much fun when I saw that XP bar moving again when I hit 186. It’s not logical, because you only get a spirit shard each time you fill up the bar, but the feeling is nice. And we are not playing the game out of logical reasons, like in real life, we want things we don’t necessarily need.

Taking that to an extreme, which masteries are really needed? If you don’t plan on getting a legendary weapon, you don’t need the masteries. No fractals, raids or Season 3, no need for the masteries. Even if you bought LW S3 episode 5 but don’t like Draconis Mons much and only visit it to get an ascended trinket, the mastery doesn’t make much sense. To be honest, I rarely play there, and not always use the spiderman mastery.

If you follow that line of thinking to an extreme, we could probably say that most people actively use only maybe 20 mastery points playing the game. Everything in the Pact Commander line is useless to me except auto-loot. I basically never use anything Exalted Lore offers, and Auric Silver has no value. I could go on with that, but the truth for me is that I still wanted that 186, simply because completing things is fun.

It makes no difference about how anyone I know treats anyone, considering many WvW players who are absolute pros haven’t done much with their masteries at all. Same with PvPers. This is a non-issue.

Anyone who cares about that number probably isn’t worth playing with anyway.

But having a “186” at your name tag does make a difference in how others treat you

I have never had anyone treat me differently because of my mastery level (which isn’t 186 and never will be because I have absolutely no interest in the raid instances), compared to people of higher mastery rank. I’ve never seen it happen to others either. maybe I’m just lucky.

that’s like saying people treat you differently because you have legendary rank in pvp by your name (or whatever it is). or they treat you differently because you have a world completion star.

really, I don’t think many people pay attention to it. I know I don’t.

and im here with 30~ spare mastery point and 8 core tyria ones and maxed mastery lvl.

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone the other route, adding more points in new zones than are needed to get the masteries in those zones. As time goes on you need to depend, for example, less and less on adventures, because there’s more masteries points to choose from.

30 of 185 HoT Mastery Points are coming adventures. 53 are from Raids and LW S3. Not everybody purchases LW S3 and even less people can get the points from raids. For a majority of players, there is no way to avoid Adventures if they want to max out the masteries. You need 137 HoT Mastery Points to do that.

Even if you get gold in all Adventures, all communes/strongboxes and even do all collections and crazy JPs, you still have to either do raids or purchase an episode LW S3.

It is not easy to max out masteries, that’s why we see much more players with 140 to 170 or less MPs than with 186. On the other hand we see much more characters at level 80 than <80, because maxing your character level is indeed easy. The surplus points in the new zones are a step into the right direction, but 30 points from adventures is a lot.

With 137 mastery points needed to max Maguuma masteries, that leaves an excess of 48 mastery points. This leaves a great deal of flexibility in what players can choose what to do or not to do.

Of the raid mastery points, one can be obtained in a completed instance (or one progressed enough) with another from any of the bosses or events which you’ll have to do anyway to unlock the raid mastery line. This means that a player will likely be earning at least two MP from raids when trying to max all of their masteries.

You have to purchase an episode to unlock the LS3 mastery line. You are correct that an LS3 episode or raids will be required to max out all masteries. Given the two from raids mentioned above, that leaves only 3 you need from an LS3 episode. Considering that you need to unlock an LS3 episode to access its mastery line, this argument is moot.

Of the 185 available Maguuma mastery points, only ~16% come from adventures. Hardly a lot when you only need ~74% of all of the mastery points to max out everything.

Requirements: 137 points total

• 112 mastery points will max the four PvE categories of HoT masteries,
• 8 points are needed for raids
• 17 points are needed for ancient magics, i.e. the LS3 line.

Availability: 185 points

• Unrestricted: 102 = HoT Maps: 61 + Mastery Insights: 83 + HoT Story: 19
• Adventures: 30
• Raids: 18
• LS3: 35 = 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 (from Crack, Shadows, Flames, Flashpoint, & Snake respectively)

There are any number of ways to max Heart of Maguuma masteries without adventures and even more ways if you only care about maxing the four HoT map masteries (with or without the LS3 lines).

If you want to fully max the entire set of Heart of Maguuma masteries, then you’re interested in overachieving, which means going outside one’s comfort zone. You will need to participate in a raid boss kill (to unlock the line) and own the LS3 stories (to unlock those mastery lines) and at that point, you still don’t need to do any adventures.

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

Djinn.9245:

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

So if came on here with my opinion that I didn’t like being “forced” to do anything in this game at all, and that everything should be handed to me anyway, I wouldn’t be lazy?

Being lazy, and expressing an opinion, are two different things.

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

This is a funny post because obviously, you were too lazy to read the posts in this thread, and instead relied on the impression you got from reading the title. And then you were too lazy to address any specific points people made. Your post could have been copied from some other, completely unrelated thread, and maybe you did just that. I was curious and checked for posts you made that just call people lazy, and there are quite a few. Most of your posts are one-liners anyway, and you almost never address any specifics. Maybe you are the lazy one here?

As for me, I got all the mastery points to get to 186, and so did others here who don’t like adventures. We are clearly not lazy, we just express our unhappiness about content that we think has nothing to do with MMO games but still contains a lot of mastery points.

ArenaNet will probably redo the system sooner than later. Just imagine what the future will be like if nothing changes. Do they really expect people to go back and get all the achievements from HoT years later? Think about how long it’d take to catchup as more expansions are released. They’re trying to avoid the issue by not reusing masteries, but I can’t imagine them doing that forever. They’re re-implementing gliding for example as a mount, but mounts are such a big deal (assuming they’re actually mounts) that I doubt they’ll be able to brush them aside with the next expansion. They could however do what everyone hates and make you relearn it every expansion.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they take the simplest route and just cut the mastery points. Since they can’t actually remove them however, the simplest option would be making them worth 100k XP or whatever, then adding that much to the XP requirements.

Most achievements that give mastery points are just ones you get done by normal play. Like completing a chain event or whacking up some champ/legendary bosses.

Offair.2563:

Most achievements that give mastery points are just ones you get done by normal play. Like completing a chain event or whacking up some champ/legendary bosses.

Yes, good example is Dragon’s Stand. The first time I participated in the meta, I got 7 Mastery Points, without leaving the meta event chain or doing something special. I knew that putting on that exalted armor gives a point though, would not have done that by chance. I disagree that this goes for most points though. Seeking an adventure or gliding a specific path, and hitting stealth at the right times, ore doing some JP is not something that happens simply by playing the game. I’m pretty sure nobody has ever reached 186 without specifically looking for MPs.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

So if came on here with my opinion that I didn’t like being “forced” to do anything in this game at all, and that everything should be handed to me anyway, I wouldn’t be lazy?

Being lazy, and expressing an opinion, are two different things.

Exactly. Expressing an opinion that you don’t like something is not being lazy. Stating explicitly that you would like everything handed to you is being lazy.

Djinn.9245:

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

PPl provided feedback aka itss fine to do things your wouldnt do for something things you get mmos are all about that.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

So if came on here with my opinion that I didn’t like being “forced” to do anything in this game at all, and that everything should be handed to me anyway, I wouldn’t be lazy?

Being lazy, and expressing an opinion, are two different things.

Exactly. Expressing an opinion that you don’t like something is not being lazy. Stating explicitly that you would like everything handed to you is being lazy.

So saying that “i dont like this this and this and i shouldnt have to do them” is diff from saying “remove this because i cant be kitten d to do it”

The mastery point system is fundamentally flawed the most notable is the majority of new players aren’t going to pay for content just so they can unlock a game mechanic. Linking to achievement system that already has a reward. All they managed to so was turn something personally rewarding in to a mundane task that must be completed in order to advance there is no other way around it. HoT is almost 2 years I don’t see the player base I used to see.

Zehnchu.4985:

The mastery point system is fundamentally flawed the most notable is the majority of new players aren’t going to pay for content just so they can unlock a game mechanic. Linking to achievement system that already has a reward. All they managed to so was turn something personally rewarding in to a mundane task that must be completed in order to advance there is no other way around it. HoT is almost 2 years I don’t see the player base I used to see.

Of course the player base is less for a two year old expansion than it is when an expansion launches. In what game doesn’t that happen.

That may or may not have anything to do with masteries at all. Not to put too find a point on it, but I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

For me, having to do the Fractals and the WvW reward track were the biggest hurdle for getting Astralaria. I am not comfortable in groups and I am not a great fan of PvP, so I guess we all have our dislikes/limitations.

In the end I am glad I did them though: the Fractals proved to be fun in themselves(still not a fan of grouping), and the WvW just meant tacking onto a zerg and prepare yourself for some mindnumbingly “back and forthing”.

I think Anet has been pretty generous in providing enough HoT Mastery Points: I found getting enough Tyria Mastery points much harder.

But even those were gotten over time. The Mastery Points that are hardest to get are the ones that are locked behind some serious Twitch play: some of the Gold medals for minigames in HoT, some of the Story achievements where you have to perfectly time your every move/dodge for the whole instance.

I feel that these points are only beholden for the Young who still have good reaction time, and/or the zest (or stupidity?) to repeat these so many times, that they finally succeed through sheer muscle memory. I am too old for that.

For instance, I know I will never manage that Halloween Jumping puzzel with the spinning tower.

Anyway, I think Anet did a good job of throwing up some hurdles without completely locking these behind impossible gates.

zealex.9410:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

azizul.8469:

people are just lazy and expect to be spoon fed and handed everything….. “i want this but i don’t want to do the requirement for it” kitten….

Expressing your opinion on something is not the same as being lazy. It is providing feedback. A truly lazy person would not even bother to provide feedback… O.o

So if came on here with my opinion that I didn’t like being “forced” to do anything in this game at all, and that everything should be handed to me anyway, I wouldn’t be lazy?

Being lazy, and expressing an opinion, are two different things.

Exactly. Expressing an opinion that you don’t like something is not being lazy. Stating explicitly that you would like everything handed to you is being lazy.

So saying that “i dont like this this and this and i shouldnt have to do them” is diff from saying “remove this because i cant be kitten d to do it”

Of course it’s different. Maybe someone doesn’t like to do a particular thing so you could have a choice to do a different thing. That’s not the same as saying they don’t want to do anything at all.

im not refering to anything im refering to 1 thing

If you want, y’all can continue to argue about the definition of “lazy” as if attacking a poster was a good reason for dismissing an argument in the first place.

The fact is that people don’t have to do adventures to play the game, including maxing the critical masteries. People who want to max all the masteries are interested in something more than just playing the game and I hope it’s understandable why that might include going outside one’s comfort zone.

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

I believe Mastery Insights are Achievements. Thus, all Mastery Points in HoT are Achievements?

And, if all Mastery Points are Achievements, then it’s a debate over which Achievements are considered easy, and which are not. Probably won’t get a consensus on that.

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

It’s not a flawed system because you don’t like achievements.

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

You can get many in Dragon Stand just by running the meta. The system isn’t flawed because you say it’s flawed.

At the beginning people were getting them because it was busy and new. Now they can further that goal in new zones as well.

Not sure what you find flawed about that.

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

You can get many in Dragon Stand just by running the meta. The system isn’t flawed because you say it’s flawed.

At the beginning people were getting them because it was busy and new. Now they can further that goal in new zones as well.

Not sure what you find flawed about that.

If you can’t see the difference between achievement and Mastery insights you have nothing further to add