Guild Wars 2

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Yes it is actually recurring with me that I prefer choices in how I play to an MMO experience “on rails”.

And I also disagree that an MMO “is all about” things you must do to earn certain rewards. Imagine an MMO that allowed you to gain one type of currency with ANY gameplay you preferred. Say you could earn it by Open World PvE, various instanced PvE, WvW, PvP, crafting, fishing, gathering, trading, etc. Then you could trade this currency that you earned by doing what you like in the game for any reward that you chose.

I have played the majority of AAA western MMOs as well as several asian MMOs and have never seen as many different currencies as in GW2. It’s a bit ridiculous really.

Well, your idea is just wrong then. I have yet to play an MMO that doesn’t have the algorithm “Do this activity Get that thing” which means you MUST do something to get things.

I don’t get what currencies have to do this discussion at all. Even if there was ONE currency, this and every other game would still follow the “Do this activity Get that thing” algorithm.

I don’t get what player willingness has to do this discussion either. Achieving content that no player will dislike is an insurmountable task. They serve a market; if someone isn’t part of that market, then the player needs to make better choices about what games they play, not the company to try to placate that player with content they want.

My currency example is to show a method where you could allow players to play how they want and all have access to the same rewards. It’s really very simple.

Actually, you didn’t show anything. Having one currency does not give you a path to getting what you want by doing what you want to do. I’ve played lots of games where BiS loot can’t be purchased at all. In fact, come to think of it … I can’t recall the last time I could simply purchase BiS loot a common currency in any game.

I mean, I won’t debate with you that a game COULD let a player simply buy anything they wanted with a single currency, but then you have to ask yourself why that isn’t happening in any MMO on the market in the first place if it’s such a good idea. I don’t have an answer to that, but I bet it’s buried somewhere in the whole ‘online game theory’ textbook if one existed. Frankly, I don’t think a game that ties performance to gear would last very long if buying all gear with a single currency existed in it. This was already discussed ad infinitum for Legendaries because people didn’t think it was very ‘legendary’ to drop 2000G to get one on the market … I don’t think that’s a small fraction of players that think that way either.

Regardless, you seemed to ignore the whole point that MMO’s are built on the exact algorithm that you dislike. Perhaps you have a reason for ignoring that?

Ayrilana.1396:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Yes it is actually recurring with me that I prefer choices in how I play to an MMO experience “on rails”.

And I also disagree that an MMO “is all about” things you must do to earn certain rewards. Imagine an MMO that allowed you to gain one type of currency with ANY gameplay you preferred. Say you could earn it by Open World PvE, various instanced PvE, WvW, PvP, crafting, fishing, gathering, trading, etc. Then you could trade this currency that you earned by doing what you like in the game for any reward that you chose.

I have played the majority of AAA western MMOs as well as several asian MMOs and have never seen as many different currencies as in GW2. It’s a bit ridiculous really.

Well, your idea is just wrong then. I have yet to play an MMO that doesn’t have the algorithm “Do this activity Get that thing” which means you MUST do something to get things.

I don’t get what currencies have to do this discussion at all. Even if there was ONE currency, this and every other game would still follow the “Do this activity Get that thing” algorithm.

I don’t get what player willingness has to do this discussion either. Achieving content that no player will dislike is an insurmountable task. They serve a market; if someone isn’t part of that market, then the player needs to make better choices about what games they play, not the company to try to placate that player with content they want.

My currency example is to show a method where you could allow players to play how they want and all have access to the same rewards. It’s really very simple.

Except the point of the rewards tied to content is to actually do the content that the rewards are tied to.

And many people object to an “on rails” gaming experience (which is the point of this thread).

Then they don’t have to earn those specific rewards. I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t want to develop content that will get ignored because people banked up “currency” from elsewhere in the game.

True, many people could just give in and do what they don’t like, or could decide not to go for a reward that involves content they don’t like. Or the customers could provide feedback to the company who can then choose whether they want to do something about it. Perfectly valid option.

Which the company appears to have made their stance known based on how rewards have been tied to specific content. It’s a very key method to drive players to do specific content.

A stance which has changed over the game’s lifespan. Legendary weapons used to be only obtainable by buying a precursor or making it in the forge, have gotten legendary journeys, then what we have now.

Alongside rewards being solely available in a gamemode also reward tracks have been added in the last two years for WvW and PvP.

So, it’s not like rewards are ONLY tied to specific content, and it’s not that rewards are ONLY right if available in multiple avenues.
Though for legendary weapons it’s kind of strange to be nitpicky about what you need to do.

Precursors are not the same as they weren’t tied to specific content. You could get them as a drop anywhere of but them off the TP.

The only thing reward tracks provide that can be obtained elsewhere are dungeon skins. This is also different from being able to bank a currency to buy up future rewards.

I was pointing out that ArenaNets stance changed over time, not that the change then is the exact same change as requested here.

Also, reward tracks can also reward HoT map skins and meta achievement reward skins and to some extend anything buyable for all the LW3 currency/crafting items. For example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mordremoth_Cache or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Draconis_Mons_Cache

Obtena.7952:

I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.

…snip

Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.

Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ayrilana.1396:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Yes it is actually recurring with me that I prefer choices in how I play to an MMO experience “on rails”.

And I also disagree that an MMO “is all about” things you must do to earn certain rewards. Imagine an MMO that allowed you to gain one type of currency with ANY gameplay you preferred. Say you could earn it by Open World PvE, various instanced PvE, WvW, PvP, crafting, fishing, gathering, trading, etc. Then you could trade this currency that you earned by doing what you like in the game for any reward that you chose.

I have played the majority of AAA western MMOs as well as several asian MMOs and have never seen as many different currencies as in GW2. It’s a bit ridiculous really.

Well, your idea is just wrong then. I have yet to play an MMO that doesn’t have the algorithm “Do this activity Get that thing” which means you MUST do something to get things.

I don’t get what currencies have to do this discussion at all. Even if there was ONE currency, this and every other game would still follow the “Do this activity Get that thing” algorithm.

I don’t get what player willingness has to do this discussion either. Achieving content that no player will dislike is an insurmountable task. They serve a market; if someone isn’t part of that market, then the player needs to make better choices about what games they play, not the company to try to placate that player with content they want.

My currency example is to show a method where you could allow players to play how they want and all have access to the same rewards. It’s really very simple.

Except the point of the rewards tied to content is to actually do the content that the rewards are tied to.

And many people object to an “on rails” gaming experience (which is the point of this thread).

Then they don’t have to earn those specific rewards. I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t want to develop content that will get ignored because people banked up “currency” from elsewhere in the game.

True, many people could just give in and do what they don’t like, or could decide not to go for a reward that involves content they don’t like. Or the customers could provide feedback to the company who can then choose whether they want to do something about it. Perfectly valid option.

Which the company appears to have made their stance known based on how rewards have been tied to specific content. It’s a very key method to drive players to do specific content.

A stance which has changed over the game’s lifespan. Legendary weapons used to be only obtainable by buying a precursor or making it in the forge, have gotten legendary journeys, then what we have now.

Alongside rewards being solely available in a gamemode also reward tracks have been added in the last two years for WvW and PvP.

So, it’s not like rewards are ONLY tied to specific content, and it’s not that rewards are ONLY right if available in multiple avenues.
Though for legendary weapons it’s kind of strange to be nitpicky about what you need to do.

Precursors are not the same as they weren’t tied to specific content. You could get them as a drop anywhere of but them off the TP.

The only thing reward tracks provide that can be obtained elsewhere are dungeon skins. This is also different from being able to bank a currency to buy up future rewards.

I was pointing out that ArenaNets stance changed over time, not that the change then is the exact same change as requested here.

Also, reward tracks can also reward HoT map skins and meta achievement reward skins and to some extend anything buyable for all the LW3 currency/crafting items. For example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mordremoth_Cache or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Draconis_Mons_Cache

Which is different than the currency suggestion given.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.

…snip

Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.

Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.

I don’t get your association there. Doing a mini game to get ‘something’ that gets you towards a reward is exactly within the “Do that get this” algorithm that I have been talking about that all MMO’s are built upon. So what’s your point? I don’t think I CAN’T show you an MMO that isn’t build on that algorithm … or at least I’ve yet to play or hear of one.

In the most general terms, completing content gets you rewards tied to them; the content does not adjust to the player; MMO’s aren’t smart enough yet. Being specific about a particular activity/reward combination in GW2 and challenging that combination as unique or unfair or whatever doesn’t disprove this fact of MMO games.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.

…snip

Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.

Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.

Not that it’s an MMO, but there is Guild Wars 1 polymock.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Yes it is actually recurring with me that I prefer choices in how I play to an MMO experience “on rails”.

And I also disagree that an MMO “is all about” things you must do to earn certain rewards. Imagine an MMO that allowed you to gain one type of currency with ANY gameplay you preferred. Say you could earn it by Open World PvE, various instanced PvE, WvW, PvP, crafting, fishing, gathering, trading, etc. Then you could trade this currency that you earned by doing what you like in the game for any reward that you chose.

I have played the majority of AAA western MMOs as well as several asian MMOs and have never seen as many different currencies as in GW2. It’s a bit ridiculous really.

Well, your idea is just wrong then. I have yet to play an MMO that doesn’t have the algorithm “Do this activity Get that thing” which means you MUST do something to get things.

I don’t get what currencies have to do this discussion at all. Even if there was ONE currency, this and every other game would still follow the “Do this activity Get that thing” algorithm.

I don’t get what player willingness has to do this discussion either. Achieving content that no player will dislike is an insurmountable task. They serve a market; if someone isn’t part of that market, then the player needs to make better choices about what games they play, not the company to try to placate that player with content they want.

My currency example is to show a method where you could allow players to play how they want and all have access to the same rewards. It’s really very simple.

Actually, you didn’t show anything. Having one currency does not give you a path to getting what you want by doing what you want to do.

If there was only one currency reward for all activities, and all rewards were purchased with this one currency, then you could perform whatever activity you wanted and purchase any offered reward as a result of doing what you want.

Obtena.7952:

I’ve played lots of games where BiS loot can’t be purchased at all.

In GW2 you can purchase Ascended armor which was BiS before Legendary was just released.

Obtena.7952:

In fact, come to think of it … I can’t recall the last time I could simply purchase BiS loot a common currency in any game.

I mean, I won’t debate with you that a game COULD let a player simply buy anything they wanted with a single currency, but then you have to ask yourself why that isn’t happening in any MMO on the market in the first place if it’s such a good idea.

Is that a known fact? I’m not sure it is. I wonder whether many asian or maybe eastern european MMOs don’t have a base cash-purchased currency that you can use to purchase anything in the game. I would be surprised if that did not exist.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t have an answer to that, but I bet it’s buried somewhere in the whole ‘online game theory’ textbook if one existed. Frankly, I don’t think a game that ties performance to gear would last very long if buying all gear with a single currency existed in it.

What do you mean by “ties performance to gear”?

Obtena.7952:

This was already discussed ad infinitum for Legendaries because people didn’t think it was very ‘legendary’ to drop 2000G to get one on the market

Many people played the game in a variety of ways for a long time to make that 2k gold. Is their game-time less valuable than anyone else’s because they didn’t play the way another person preferred that they play?

Obtena.7952:

… I don’t think that’s a small fraction of players that think that way either.

Regardless, you seemed to ignore the whole point that MMO’s are built on the exact algorithm that you dislike. Perhaps you have a reason for ignoring that?

No, I’m ignoring false logic that “Do this activity Get that thing” means to do only 1 thing to get that thing. In GW2 there are plenty of examples of multiple means of getting the same reward already. I simply think there should be more.

I hate it too. And i hate being forced to do personal story to get enough tyria mastery points. I refuse to do personal story. It’s wack.

Djinn.9245:

If there was only one currency reward for all activities, and all rewards were purchased with this one currency, then you could perform whatever activity you wanted and purchase any offered reward as a result of doing what you want.

Yes, like I said, I’m aware it could be done. That’s not the relevant question … You aren’t asking yourself why it’s not being done. Is there Asian MMO’s that allow it? I dunno, but we aren’t talking about Asian MMO’s because that’s not a relevant comparison to GW2.

Besides … you think the game would be significantly improved to allow you to do what you want if you can simply buy whatever reward you want and those games exists? Ok, then why are you playing one that doesn’t do that? Why are you insistent this game should be something it won’t be? Are you under a serious belief that at some point, Anet will just allow you to buy everything with gold and abandon pretty much the whole rewards system they put in place after 5 years? That’s a really interesting point of view. And somehow you think that this would be an overall positive impact on the game, considering the cost? I don’t think you’ve given this much thought. Seems to me that the market has already given it’s general approval of how the game is run and developed. Not sure the effort to change that system warrants what amounts to be a risky experiment.

Even though you got the wall of text going and drawning into pedantic arguments, that still doesn’t change the fact that doing an activity that’s hardcoded to a reward is how MMO’s work. Ignoring that reality is not a compelling argument to change the game to suit individuals unwilling to doing the available activities for the rewards. Even in the case where there are multiple ways to get that same reward, you still have to take one of those paths; the game doesn’t adjust to the player.

I do find it funny that you aren’t recognizing that the addition of every new way to get the same reward has an increasing diminished return and how that ties into the limited resources Anet has to develop the game. I guess that’s working in your favour though. Of course they could add more … at what expense? You seem to want to ignore these practical considerations. I can assure you, they are real barriers to giving you what you think GW2 should be.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

If there was only one currency reward for all activities, and all rewards were purchased with this one currency, then you could perform whatever activity you wanted and purchase any offered reward as a result of doing what you want.

Yes, like I said, I’m aware it could be done. That’s not the relevant question … You aren’t asking yourself why it’s not being done. Is there Asian MMO’s that allow it? I dunno, but we aren’t talking about Asian MMO’s because that’s not a relevant comparison to GW2.

You said any MMO on the market.

Obtena.7952:

Besides … you think the game would be significantly improved to allow you to do what you want if you can simply buy whatever reward you want and those games exists? Ok, then why are you playing one that doesn’t do that? Why are you insistent this game should be something it won’t be?

GW2 used to be “play how you want”. Only just prior to HoT with the New Player Experience did Anet start to change GW2 to “play only how we say”.

Obtena.7952:

Are you under a serious belief that at some point, Anet will just allow you to buy everything with gold and abandon pretty much the whole rewards system they put in place after 5 years? That’s a really interesting point of view. And somehow you think that this would be an overall positive impact on the game, considering the cost? I don’t think you’ve given this much thought. Seems to me that the market has already given it’s general approval of how the game is run and developed. Not sure the effort to change that system warrants what amounts to be a risky experiment.

I never said that I expected this to be done in GW2. It was an example…. O.o

Obtena.7952:

Even though you got the wall of text going and drawning into pedantic arguments, that still doesn’t change the fact that doing an activity that’s hardcoded to a reward is how MMO’s work. Ignoring that reality is not a compelling argument to change the game to suit individuals unwilling to doing the available activities for the rewards. Even in the case where there are multiple ways to get that same reward, you still have to take one of those paths; the game doesn’t adjust to the player.

Games do adjust to the players all the time. Anet themselves have stated that they value player feedback and make decisions based on it at times.

Obtena.7952:

I do find it funny that you aren’t recognizing that the addition of every new way to get the same reward has an increasing diminished return and how that ties into the limited resources Anet has to develop the game. I guess that’s working in your favour though. Of course they could add more … at what expense? You seem to want to ignore these practical considerations. I can assure you, they are real barriers to giving you what you think GW2 should be.

I also find it funny that you want to put words in my mouth. But I never said anything of the kind. If you actually read my posts, I was making examples of how I think it could be done in a way to not force players into content they don’t prefer. I never said that Anet should change anything, just giving feedback.

So you understand the difference: “I don’t like pickles on my hamburger” vs. “I demand that you remove all pickles from all hamburgers”.

Obtena.7952:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.

…snip

Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.

Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.

I don’t get your association there. Doing a mini game to get ‘something’ that gets you towards a reward is exactly within the “Do that get this” algorithm that I have been talking about that all MMO’s are built upon. So what’s your point? I don’t think I CAN’T show you an MMO that isn’t build on that algorithm … or at least I’ve yet to play or hear of one.

In the most general terms, completing content gets you rewards tied to them; the content does not adjust to the player; MMO’s aren’t smart enough yet. Being specific about a particular activity/reward combination in GW2 and challenging that combination as unique or unfair or whatever doesn’t disprove this fact of MMO games.

I’m not complaining about the practice of specific rewards via specific content in the most general terms. My points were:

• I can see how people think the game has changed in that regard, because it has.
• Having an Elite Spec collection include mini game content in which you don’t actually get to play your character spec is counter-intuitive.

And you still haven’t named an MMO where mini-games (where you are essentially playing a different game) gate basic endgame rewards like BiS gear.

Djinn.9245:

So you understand the difference: “I don’t like pickles on my hamburger” vs. “I demand that you remove all pickles from all hamburgers”.

That’s a reasonable distinction.

However, I understood the OP to be saying, “I hate being forced to eat hamburgers or pickles,” which doesn’t seem to be an accurate assessment when it comes to having a meal, GW2 style.

(Be right back — I’m hungry now. Remind me to avoid threads with food metaphors in the future.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

So you understand the difference: “I don’t like pickles on my hamburger” vs. “I demand that you remove all pickles from all hamburgers”.

That’s a reasonable distinction.

However, I understood the OP to be saying, “I hate being forced to eat hamburgers or pickles,” which doesn’t seem to be an accurate assessment when it comes to having a meal, GW2 style.

(Be right back — I’m hungry now. Remind me to avoid threads with food metaphors in the future.)

I view the subject this way: There are only 1 class of Legendary weapons. I.e. there are no WvW Legendaries, or Raid Legendaries, etc. So if I want a Legendary weapon, I don’t really understand why I have to participate in any particular content in order to get one. Therefore if I must participate in particular content in order to attain something I want that is not definitively associated with that content, it feels like “forced” participation.

To return to the food analogy, it is like saying that if you want a hamburger you must have it with a full complement of “fixings” and may not customize your burger the way you prefer. If you want one, that’s just the way it is. Seems a bit “forced” to me. Sure, that used to be the way restaurants used to do it. “No changes” was the word of the day. But a modern restaurant would do poorly with that attitude.

We can only hope that the game we like to play follows the modern trend. Unfortunately, Anet seems to be taking GW2 backward in the “do it your way” regard.

But, Legendaries were that way at launch (barring just buying one, which one can still do). One had to complete Dungeons, participate in WvW, etc.

It seemed a sizable portion of the playerbase thought that just buying a Legendary wasn’t very legendary, and Gen2 Legendaries had journeys, and then they didn’t, but other than being able to buy one directly from the TP, just like with the originals, there is content required that not everyone enjoyed.

Thus, I’m not sure how much ‘play as you want’, or the lack thereof, has changed in regard to Legendaries.

Just making everything purchasable with gold will never happen. The problem is that gold can be bought with real money. And if the gem to gold exchange didn’t exist, we would have professional gold farmers/sellers. I won’t explain further why that would be a major problem.

If we could really trust that someone who has 2000 gold spent time and effort in the game to get it, then making everything purchasable might work. Such a system I would embrace, because it would be much closer to “play how you want” than anything we can find now. You would see someone with a legendary weapon and know that he’s not just a whale but did spend time and effort to get it.

What I would like to see is just more diversity. I have all items for Koutalophile except the Siege Commander’s Spoon. I never played WvW and have no plans on doing it in the near future, so I will not complete the collection. I don’t need the mastery point and the rewards are just a token, I would just like to finish this. All other spoons can be collected in the Open World and Fractals, and then they add this one that requires you to play a completely different game mode. Do they want to invite people to test out WvW that way? It’s not working, same as with the mini-games. I don’t try Microsoft’s Edge either because they set it as default browser after upgrading to Win10, and then ask you again if you really don’t want to try it after you already went to the option to change it. That’s not how you convince customers to test stuff out. If I went into WvW just for the spoon, it would probably give me a bad experience. I have nothing against WvW, will try it out on my own, when I think I want to do it, not because ArenaNet wants to force me into it.

@adventures aka mini-games: Being “forced” to do them is like ArenaNet asking you to play a console game to get something in GW2. Imagine they also created jump’n run games for browsers. Then, to promote them, they would tie GW2 stuff to their browser games, like “Please go to www.shootinggallery.com and get at least silver there. You will receive a code that you can enter at this console to unlock the Mastery Point/collection item.” I’ve played a browser game that gave you ingame currency if you tested out their other games that had nothing to do with the game you were actually playing. For me, this is the same as “Adventures”. I don’t want to play another game to get something in the game I want to play.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

But, Legendaries were that way at launch

Yea, that seems to be the answer for a lot of people to complaints on the forums. But things can and have changed because of player feedback so I will continue to provide it

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

(barring just buying one, which one can still do). One had to complete Dungeons, participate in WvW, etc.

It seemed a sizable portion of the playerbase thought that just buying a Legendary wasn’t very legendary, and Gen2 Legendaries had journeys, and then they didn’t, but other than being able to buy one directly from the TP, just like with the originals, there is content required that not everyone enjoyed.

This is an example of Anet introducing more the “play our way” with HoT. And I don’t really understand this concept that paying gold is not a valid way to get a Legendary. Many people only gain gold by playing – I have never purchased gold.

Faaris.8013:

Just making everything purchasable with gold will never happen.

Good thing I didn’t suggest that GW2 should do that. It was an answer to someone who stated that no such thing existed in MMOs. I didn’t even suggest that GW2 should have a single in-game currency that could purchase everything. What I did say was that this would be a way for everyone to be able to play their way and still get the same rewards.

GW2 unfortunately has gone in pretty much the opposite direction with huge numbers of currencies so that you have to play on rails to get a specific reward. This is what I’m complaining about. I know they won’t change 180 degrees. I’m just hoping they might start leaning a little bit more toward allowing players to have fun the way they prefer and still get the best rewards.

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

If I want Gold Fractal Skins, I go do Fractals.
If I want Ardent Glorious Skins, I PvP.
If I want a Legendary, I do the requirements
The skins are the optional content which does not prevent you from playing the game.

So tired of those phrases being tossed around like they’re law.

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

If I want Gold Fractal Skins, I go do Fractals.
If I want Ardent Glorious Skins, I PvP.
If I want a Legendary, I do the requirements
The skins are the optional content which does not prevent you from playing the game.

So tired of those phrases being tossed around like they’re law.

I agree. The play your way was never intended to guarantee every reward. It’s a quote bandied about out of context to try to make some kind of point. In the words of Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word…I don’t think it means what you think it means.”

If it did, then if my play style was standing in Lion’s Arch I should be able to get every reward by just doing that.

Djinn.9245:

Faaris.8013:

Just making everything purchasable with gold will never happen.

Good thing I didn’t suggest that GW2 should do that.

Well, good thing I wasn’t replying to your post with my statement.

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

Who is begging to get Legendary skins?

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

Who is begging to get Legendary skins?

The original post? “Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow?” Where have you been.

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

If I want Gold Fractal Skins, I go do Fractals.
If I want Ardent Glorious Skins, I PvP.
If I want a Legendary, I do the requirements
The skins are the optional content which does not prevent you from playing the game.

So tired of those phrases being tossed around like they’re law.

“Play your way” was used on the box in the context of choosing a profession, weapons, traits, gear stats, etc. to suit one’s play preferences. That’s consistent with all other mentions of PYW by ANet. I never saw any mention of “Play your way” connected to rewards, never mind any mention of all rewards being accessible despite restricting one’s content choices. Launch should have taught players that, as dungeon rewards were exclusive, and Legendary Weapons required both dungeon and WvW play.

That said, ANet has taken the lesson provided by the vocal and has taken to using rewards to lead the horse to water, as it were. As a result, a larger percentage of rewards have been gated behind specific content than was true earlier in the game’s history. This is a natural progression in all MMO’s. New content means new rewards.

My only objections to ANet doing so are:

1. Too much emphasis is placed on crafting.
2. Peripheral content like Adventures should not gate access to alternative means to get BiS stats.

I have to admit, I don’t understand the idea that:

Peripheral content like Adventures should not gate access to alternative means to get BiS stats.

When has an adventure gated access to different ways to get BiS gear? I mean, even if that’s true, you even admit it’s a different way … so there are other ways that you can choose to get the gear, even if one way is gated by an activity you don’t like. So … what’s the issue?

Haleydawn.3764:

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

Who is begging to get Legendary skins?

The original post? “Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow?” Where have you been.

I’ve been in the “I know what that sentence actually says” camp thanks. LOL

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

Who is begging to get Legendary skins?

The original post? “Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow?” Where have you been.

I’ve been in the “I know what that sentence actually says” camp thanks. LOL

The whole OP was asking for new MP’s so they don’t have to do the content required to obtain a legendary, even though there is an abundance of MP’s now.
Now we’re back to what is considered required to play (relevant gear earned in all game modes, real ‘play your way’), and added ‘extras’ which aren’t neccessary to play (skins). Let’s get that distinction. Is there any point to having unique rewards in each game mode? Yes, it draws players to it. That’s the point. That is the point of the new legendaries. Why PvP and WvW have unique Ascended/Exotic skins to earn only in their modes.
Plenty of games do this. It’s basic enticement, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Haleydawn.3764:

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

Djinn.9245:

Haleydawn.3764:

“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …

I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.

Who is begging to get Legendary skins?

The original post? “Why should I be forced to do a part of the game I don’t want to do to get my legendary short bow?” Where have you been.

I’ve been in the “I know what that sentence actually says” camp thanks. LOL

The whole OP was asking for new MP’s so they don’t have to do the content required to obtain a legendary, even though there is an abundance of MP’s now.
Now we’re back to what is considered required to play (relevant gear earned in all game modes, real ‘play your way’), and added ‘extras’ which aren’t neccessary to play (skins). Let’s get that distinction. Is there any point to having unique rewards in each game mode? Yes, it draws players to it. That’s the point. That is the point of the new legendaries. Why PvP and WvW have unique Ascended/Exotic skins to earn only in their modes.
Plenty of games do this. It’s basic enticement, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

“Begging for Legendary skins” means asking for them to simply be given to you. Now you’re saying that the OP asked for different MP to acquire so they could get their Legendary. Doing something different to get them is not the same as not doing anything to get them.

nottsgman.8206:

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy. for some, that is wvw, for others it is map completing zones, and for some it is achievements.

if Anet removed all the things that people may not like when it comes to making a legendary, there would be nothing to do and they’d just mail you one.

they are not really legendary if anyone can craft them now is it…..

sorudo.9054:

nottsgman.8206:

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy. for some, that is wvw, for others it is map completing zones, and for some it is achievements.

if Anet removed all the things that people may not like when it comes to making a legendary, there would be nothing to do and they’d just mail you one.

they are not really legendary if anyone can craft them now is it…..

Anyone CAN craft them…

Djinn.9245:

sorudo.9054:

nottsgman.8206:

if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy. for some, that is wvw, for others it is map completing zones, and for some it is achievements.

if Anet removed all the things that people may not like when it comes to making a legendary, there would be nothing to do and they’d just mail you one.

they are not really legendary if anyone can craft them now is it…..

Anyone CAN craft them…

yeah, that’s what makes it NOT legendary, maybe as stat but not what it is.

something legendary is forged or enchanted uniquely, it is something you can only get by hardship and mystery.
if ppl can just craft it it becomes just another weapon of power, nothing worth putting a legendary title on.

sorudo.9054:

something legendary is forged or enchanted uniquely, it is something you can only get by hardship and mystery.
if ppl can just craft it it becomes just another weapon of power, nothing worth putting a legendary title on.

So who do you think should be able to get legendary weapons and who not? Or is it just about semantics and you are arguing that they should not be called “legendary”?

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

and then even backed up from alot of mastery points being locked behind specific masteries [for example in verdant brink on launch you had quite a few mastery points locked behind itzel poison knowledge and nunoh lvl 4 mastery I think? – they have revamped most of them to be possible to complete with nothing more than basic gliding and bouncing mushrooms…. which were required to progress the storyline anyway]

PS. to that guy just below quoted post – mastery insights are achievements – they are listed in respective achievement tabs, and for all purposes and means are treated by a game engines as such – it ain’t rocket science really….

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

and then even backed up from alot of mastery points being locked behind specific masteries [for example in verdant brink on launch you had quite a few mastery points locked behind itzel poison knowledge and nunoh lvl 4 mastery I think? – they have revamped most of them to be possible to complete with nothing more than basic gliding and bouncing mushrooms…. which were required to progress the storyline anyway]

PS. to that guy just below quoted post – mastery insights are achievements – they are listed in respective achievement tabs, and for all purposes and means are treated by a game engines as such – it ain’t rocket science really….

Since you can’t tell there is a difference one is an achievement for getting the MP while the others is grind achievement and play it their way to obtain MP, but that just for HoT. You also assume everyone who plays must not life and can 24/7 playing and that they have been playing every day.

And again i’ll they already have a reward system but now they have a reward for a reward for reward. And as some else also stated it screws people who liked getting shards because now every thing is locked behind locked masteries so once again it’s right back to leveling for nothing.

Working on achievement was fun right up until it because forced to do them.

Zehnchu.4985:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

and then even backed up from alot of mastery points being locked behind specific masteries [for example in verdant brink on launch you had quite a few mastery points locked behind itzel poison knowledge and nunoh lvl 4 mastery I think? – they have revamped most of them to be possible to complete with nothing more than basic gliding and bouncing mushrooms…. which were required to progress the storyline anyway]

PS. to that guy just below quoted post – mastery insights are achievements – they are listed in respective achievement tabs, and for all purposes and means are treated by a game engines as such – it ain’t rocket science really….

Since you can’t tell there is a difference one is an achievement for getting the MP while the others is grind achievement and play it their way to obtain MP, but that just for HoT. You also assume everyone who plays must not life and can 24/7 playing and that they have been playing every day.

And again i’ll they already have a reward system but now they have a reward for a reward for reward. And as some else also stated it screws people who liked getting shards because now every thing is locked behind locked masteries so once again it’s right back to leveling for nothing.

Yep it’s called progression. Needing some masteries to get other masteries is part of the progression, much like a puzzle for those who like to figure that stuff out.

For those who don’t there are guides.

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

and then even backed up from alot of mastery points being locked behind specific masteries [for example in verdant brink on launch you had quite a few mastery points locked behind itzel poison knowledge and nunoh lvl 4 mastery I think? – they have revamped most of them to be possible to complete with nothing more than basic gliding and bouncing mushrooms…. which were required to progress the storyline anyway]

PS. to that guy just below quoted post – mastery insights are achievements – they are listed in respective achievement tabs, and for all purposes and means are treated by a game engines as such – it ain’t rocket science really….

Since you can’t tell there is a difference one is an achievement for getting the MP while the others is grind achievement and play it their way to obtain MP, but that just for HoT. You also assume everyone who plays must not life and can 24/7 playing and that they have been playing every day.

And again i’ll they already have a reward system but now they have a reward for a reward for reward. And as some else also stated it screws people who liked getting shards because now every thing is locked behind locked masteries so once again it’s right back to leveling for nothing.

Yep it’s called progression. Needing some masteries to get other masteries is part of the progression, much like a puzzle for those who like to figure that stuff out.

For those who don’t there are guides.

Attachments are not progressions it’s kitten… Getting HP points is progressions.

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Vayne.8563:

Zehnchu.4985:

Vayne.8563:

I maxed out all the masteries in HOT just from doing HOT anyway before the living story stuff even came out.

I am sure a lot of people did too when it was still shinny, yet it still doesn’t dismiss the fact that it is a flawed system.

The majority of mastery points in HoT and base game are gained from achievements only, how many mastery points gained by Mastery insights 36.

That doesn’t make it flawed. Even mastery insights are an achievement. So 100% of the mastery points are based on achievements. They put enough easy stuff in there (strong boxes and insights) to get all the basic ones. If you’re decent at arcade type stuff there’s far more you can get easily.

and then even backed up from alot of mastery points being locked behind specific masteries [for example in verdant brink on launch you had quite a few mastery points locked behind itzel poison knowledge and nunoh lvl 4 mastery I think? – they have revamped most of them to be possible to complete with nothing more than basic gliding and bouncing mushrooms…. which were required to progress the storyline anyway]

PS. to that guy just below quoted post – mastery insights are achievements – they are listed in respective achievement tabs, and for all purposes and means are treated by a game engines as such – it ain’t rocket science really….

Since you can’t tell there is a difference one is an achievement for getting the MP while the others is grind achievement and play it their way to obtain MP, but that just for HoT. You also assume everyone who plays must not life and can 24/7 playing and that they have been playing every day.

And again i’ll they already have a reward system but now they have a reward for a reward for reward. And as some else also stated it screws people who liked getting shards because now every thing is locked behind locked masteries so once again it’s right back to leveling for nothing.

Yep it’s called progression. Needing some masteries to get other masteries is part of the progression, much like a puzzle for those who like to figure that stuff out.

For those who don’t there are guides.

Attachments are not progressions it’s kitten… Getting HP points is progressions.

Having to do one thing before doing another is almost the definition of progression. If nothing else you’re progressing through a sequence. No idea what you mean by attachments.