Guild Wars 2

Hey guys

I suggest that Arena lower the base healing of all skills, and instead increase the scaling of healing power, right now you have no use of building support for dungeons because everyone already has enough.
Another thing could be to add a stat that controls the strength of other support skills like aegis, retaliation, swiftness, might and defence.

I feel like this game needs a little bit of a buff to support oriented players

Thanks for listening

Well, that’s kind of the point, though? You can heal yourself, so you don’t need a dedicated healer. Support here is more along the lines of buffs, anyway, and there are several options out there.

The “strength” of those boons can already be influenced, too – by stacking, mostly, which can influence intensity or duration, and I think that’s plenty. Besides, changes are coming already.

There’s a reason I (and many others) like GW2 so much: No trinity. Don’t want one, don’t need one. Any step toward a trinity-like scenario would be a step into the wrong direction for me.

He isn’t saying a trinity, simply make it so having cleric armor (for example) isn’t a completely useless thing to do. If you can self heal (as well as heal others) close to the same in zerk as you can in clerics something is very wrong.

I said trinity-like, not trinity. Fiddling with skills and stats so that support builds become something of a necessity would go against the “no special build needed to play this content” premise of the game.

The current issues are more related to the fact that healing doesn’t scale very well. If 400 healing power more or less don’t make a difference when they should, that’s more of a problem than having a good healing skill for everyone. That skill is necessary, especially on lower levels, making it any less useful would make some content very hard to play without other players (not that I mind playing with random strangers on the internet, wrong as that sounds…^^).

I think nerfing the #6 healing skill is the wrong way to go – fixing healing power would make much more of a difference, especially for the group content like Tequatl, where a few cleric elementalists then could possibly keep the melee zerg alive even with poison and half the turrets unmanned, for example. Large group content should benefit from support builds, but making a support role necessary for small group/“solo” content is… meh. Not exactly what I’d wish for in this game.

healing power and defensive gear is overpowered.

Elementalists, the most squishest class, don’t even use their healing skill to heal. What would that change?

rotten.9753:

Elementalists, the most squishest class, don’t even use their healing skill to heal. What would that change?

Wouldn’t change anything for meta groups that know how to dodge. Plenty of players don’t though. New content means people won’t know what to dodge on day 1 (although instincts and general gw2 skills are much more developed for some than others).

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

healing power and defensive gear is overpowered.

This ^ was before changes/additions of
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Monk
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Benevolence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Delicious_Rice_Ball
which adds an extra 32.5% bonus healing to allies.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQRBIhdu1JNi0Sj10g1NwhjJqFKorzAYGi6EouNOjCG-TBCBABat/wCHBgKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HC4kAAA-e
That is a “zerker necro” with 1 trait, rune, sigil and food changes from the pug meta. DS#1 heals allies for 585 health per auto attack.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQNAodWn0ISnNWaDG1ABdmoXomNI6B4CAq7iroeB-TxxDABMcCAIUJYlq/80+DXp8DP9BA8AAAA-e
That is a full “healer” with DS #1 healing 1500 per use among other heals such as regen that will pulse 461 health per second. Leaving deathsround, signet of vamp and dark field combos for more healing…

Kronos.2560:

If you can self heal (as well as heal others) close to the same in zerk as you can in clerics something is very wrong.

That is clearly not the case. The cleric necro I linked above is like giving your allies healing signet x 5. Most other classes (besides ranger/thief) can hit healing numbers like these. Healing power doesn’t need a buff and the changes the OP recommend would just screw over PvP balance.

That grandmaster trait scales well with healing power, though – 0.4 makes having some healing power quite effective.
But that’s kinda an exception to the rule – usually the scaling isn’t so good. Traits like elixir-infused bombs only have a 0.15 scaling, for example. Even the regen you mention scales only per 0.125 healing power. The vampiric mark should have a 0.2, but i may be wrong. Basically, the only significant scaling of a frequently used skill is the only one you’ve mentioned in detail.

And obviously, you must have all those ways to use healing power. Either you have some trait like the ones mentioned above and some utilities/weapons skills/mechanics that can heal, or you end up using it just with the healing skill and little else (making such a choice a waste of points).
In the end, the major issue of such a stat is that it is heavily limited in its application and effects as to avoid it ending up being necessary (and having to sacrifice a lot of dps for such limited effects makes it mostly useless in practice – even in the video above they used berserker jewelries to improve damage, as a full cleric wouldn’t have added much healing, but sure it would have hit like a wet noodle; anyway, they also fixed fiery rush, so such a run done now would end up even slower; and boring, i would add).

Imho, either they change how stats are distributed in equips (if it is supposed to be limited in application and not as effective as other stats, maybe they should review how equips give stats – make cleric give power,toughness, healing power and some boon duration for example, so that the scope of such an equip is enlarged) or they change the stat directly to add other effects on it, like increasing the effect of active defensive skills (and rename it something else, dunno, support power).
Or they could give additional effects on skills of some specialization dependant purely by healing power (or with very low base effect, unlike the skills we’ve got now). That would enlarge its scope of use, too.

DingoVad.1945:

right now you have no use of building support for dungeons because everyone already has enough.
…..

so….artificially make Healing Power needed? When everyone has enough healing now?

I typed enough, “LFG, need Healer” in GW1 when I would rather have been playing…..no thanks.

Brother Grimm.5176:

DingoVad.1945:

right now you have no use of building support for dungeons because everyone already has enough.
…..

so….artificially make Healing Power needed? When everyone has enough healing now?

I typed enough, “LFG, need Healer” in GW1 when I would rather have been playing…..no thanks.

I just wanna say…

…If we allocate our stats freely it wouldn’t matter, you can also equip a few trinkets with healing power on them even rune/sigil can’t you?. You need Power,Precision,Ferocity to have enough damage don’t you? #LFGzerkeronly

1 “argument” against zerker is how it’s “3 stats for dps” while all other aspects of the game are controlled by a single stat (even though that’s wrong). +% healing to allies is another “stat” if you really want to specialize in healing and a 32.5% buff to both the base portion of a healing skill as well as the HP scaling portion is still great. It also prevents uber tanks from dominating point capture in PvP. Zealots/keepers which is sadly very expensive for recipes (from marionette) also has a relatively minor dps loss compared to zerker.

If you want to talk about engineer healing builds:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdUQJAqOlUUpdr9ZxWrRULoQfjcEAQdBRLL3G-TxxDABEqEs4TAQlq/80+DXp8DP9AA8AACAcA8e3DgjP+4jP+4e/93f/93DA-e
Bomb build that heals about 548 per bomb for allies every 0.84 seconds for 653 healing per second. Super elixir: 1845 on initial pulse + pulses of 500 for 10 ticks on a 16 second CD. Regen/vigor/heals on healing turret and 2k heal blast finishers in water fields which this build has great amounts of on short CDs.

The necro healer can only do that in DS and it doesn’t stack well with other heals. For someone like an engi that can have super elixir, bomb heals and regen all at the same time, of course the scaling shouldn’t be as good. It still adds up to around 1500 sustained healing with great burst healing on water field blasts.

A guard
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVUQFAZl8ApdolBxTI8DNxDBlp5jdDCRGucABA-ThxDABEqEsS1fea/hrU+hnOAAeAAAA-e
An ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFUQFAWnMIS1D2yAONAdEGADwIvCeBfQRBgyzgbQPA-TxxDABMcBAIUJYlq/80+DXp8DPdAA8AACAcA8+7BgjP+4jP+4e/93f/93LFw3ysA-e
Water #1/Ice bow #1 auto attacks.

If you take the same amount of effort that zerker meta optimizers put into doing dps and apply it to healing builds, you can get about 1.5-2k healing per second with decent burst heals out of most classes. Scaling is fine. If anything, you should ask for more +% outgoing heals modifiers and those have been added into the game. Also ask for an alternative way to earn keeper/zealots gear again (Power/precision/healing power 14% less dps than zerker) or some variant of like HP/power/precision.

Edit: as others have said, a healer should never be required. With protection boon though, most 1 hit KO attacks are not actually 1 hit KO attacks. With healing like ^ it can actually make some encounters face roll easy to have a healer. The only way players that want healing to be required in some way, to get what they want is to have unavoidable damage that ignores toughness. That would be terrible for the game. As long as active defense possible/sufficient, decent players will end up going glass. Most players though… honestly could use a healer in pug groups. (I am a full zerker person even in pvp/wvw but I do like theorizing about healing)

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

rotten.9753:

Elementalists, the most squishest class, don’t even use their healing skill to heal. What would that change?

Wouldn’t change anything for meta groups that know how to dodge. Plenty of players don’t though. New content means people won’t know what to dodge on day 1 (although instincts and general gw2 skills are much more developed for some than others).

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

healing power and defensive gear is overpowered.

This ^ was before changes/additions of
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Monk
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Benevolence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Delicious_Rice_Ball
which adds an extra 32.5% bonus healing to allies.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQRBIhdu1JNi0Sj10g1NwhjJqFKorzAYGi6EouNOjCG-TBCBABat/wCHBgKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HC4kAAA-e
That is a “zerker necro” with 1 trait, rune, sigil and food changes from the pug meta. DS#1 heals allies for 585 health per auto attack.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQNAodWn0ISnNWaDG1ABdmoXomNI6B4CAq7iroeB-TxxDABMcCAIUJYlq/80+DXp8DP9BA8AAAA-e
That is a full “healer” with DS #1 healing 1500 per use among other heals such as regen that will pulse 461 health per second. Leaving deathsround, signet of vamp and dark field combos for more healing…

Kronos.2560:

If you can self heal (as well as heal others) close to the same in zerk as you can in clerics something is very wrong.

That is clearly not the case. The cleric necro I linked above is like giving your allies healing signet x 5. Most other classes (besides ranger/thief) can hit healing numbers like these. Healing power doesn’t need a buff and the changes the OP recommend would just screw over PvP balance.

Those healing life blasts are so unreliable to land, it’s a joke I’m not even sure why you’re pretending people are going to receive that healing when slight ground elevations and character size bugs have been documented with life blast not healing.

And the simple fact is, you will never have gear variety if you don’t design encouters that MANDATE different gearing.

That’s the whole point of raids in other games, everyone would be DPS if tanks and healers were not necessary.

So if you’re going to make a set of stats that is virtually worthless and only useful to “noobs”, that’s a monstrous waste of development assets. Might as well take those armors off the game.

Berzerker stats scale too well and the nerfs didn’t go far enough. Multihit attacks like meteor shower and frostbow also need the nerfbat against large hitbox opponents. Killing endgame level bosses in less than 1-2 minutes is obscene.

They should remove ferocity as a stat and simply make crit damage a 150% damage done fixed.

Merge power with condition damage into a single power stat so condition damage skills and power based skills can be more incorporated, and it makes the bunch of currently useless hybrid weapons better.

Zenith.7301:

They should remove ferocity as a stat and simply make crit damage a 150% damage done fixed.

Merge power with condition damage into a single power stat so condition damage skills and power based skills can be more incorporated, and it makes the bunch of currently useless hybrid weapons better.

This.

Who honestly thought Berserker was a good idea. It is perfectly itemized, giving a player every single damage stat they want. With Power/Precision/X, at least we get a basic choice between Healing Power, Vitality, or Toughness. Additionally, without Ferocity scaling Precision becomes weaker, even allowing Power/X/Y to be viable. The exponential curve is less steep without Ferocity on gear.

I’d be all for adding two more stats with the removal of Ferocity and Condi Damage. Condi Duration, Boon Duration (in relevant amounts) are probably first in line. We could also see a Profession specific stat that gives you a % bonus towards whatever your 6th trait lines happens to be. Call it Finesse, lets say.

A warrior’s Finesse stat would increase your CD reduction for adrenaline skills, thief would be steal CD, and so on. Either way, stats need a big overhaul.

Larynx.2453:

A warrior’s Finesse stat would increase your CD reduction for adrenaline skills, thief would be steal CD, and so on. Either way, stats need a big overhaul.

I wonder what the ranger will get, “improved pet AI” ? , if so i would go Finesse/Finesse/Finesse gear on both of mine.

Joke aside, the idea is not bad . There are some gear and combat issues that need to be addressed, either in HoT or sooner.

Larynx.2453:

This.

Who honestly thought Berserker was a good idea. It is perfectly itemized, giving a player every single damage stat they want. With Power/Precision/X, at least we get a basic choice between Healing Power, Vitality, or Toughness. Additionally, without Ferocity scaling Precision becomes weaker, even allowing Power/X/Y to be viable. The exponential curve is less steep without Ferocity on gear.

I’d be all for adding two more stats with the removal of Ferocity and Condi Damage. Condi Duration, Boon Duration (in relevant amounts) are probably first in line. We could also see a Profession specific stat that gives you a % bonus towards whatever your 6th trait lines happens to be. Call it Finesse, lets say.

If you merge power with condition damage then condition duration is counter-productive since it strengthens condition damage just like ferocity strengthens power (precision applies to both because of procs).

The thing is cleric gear isn’t useless. Got a couple of guildmate using it, use to have that as gear 2 years ago and it was fun. It’s just not optimal. If you increase the capability of cleric gear just a little it won’t change the situation at all. It would still be non optimal and ppl would still feel the same about it.

So we would still see some tread about decreasing the base healing of all skills, and increase the scaling of healing power.

Most skills have a low scaling coeficient for healing power. For most cases it is lower than 1. Dmg coeficients in the other hand are much higher than healing ones.

This makes the difference from having healing power or not very small.

In spvp for example take a look at healing signet:

Healing signet using zerker or any gear that has 0 healing power: 362 hp/s
Healing signet using clerics: 409hp/s

Now look at a dps skill. Long bow auto (dual shot) for example:

using amulet with no power: 236 dmg
using power main stat: 472dmg

While healing power gives you a small increase power will multiply your dmg by a lot. Not even considering the critical hits here. If you consider them the difference is even higher because you can’t do critical healing at gw2.

Another factors that make healing power bad:

-It does not scale with ressing speed.
-Blasting water field uses the healing power from the player that blasts the field, not the one from the player who placed the fiel
-In a few seconds after breaking combat hp goes to 100% in a couple seconds. So as long as you kill the boss in a couple seconds before you die it won’t matter if you ended the fight at 10% hp or 100%. It will go to 100% at the same speed having healing power or not.
-You can’t do a critical healing in this game.
-Etc…

My idea overall is that base healing should be reduced and healing coefficient should be raised. That will keep people that invest in healing power with the same healing output but would reduce the healing from players that invest nothing in healing power.

I don’t think all healing skills need to have their base reduced, however I believe all outgoing healing should have their base reduced and ratios ramped up to compensate.

The way I see it is there really isn’t a reason why someone running an offensive set should have a similar OUTGOING healing output as someone running clerics. For things like vigorous shouts or water blast finishers, I want to say regen but I feel like that would hurt peoples self sustain.

This change should allow for self sustain to remain unchanged while making it so that those whom are running an offensive set for some reason don’t have an outgoing healing output only slightly weaker than someone whom has healing power. Leaving the self sustain alone will prevent the “Need a healer” scenario from occurring as nothing changes except the outgoing healing output.

I am running sometimes dungeons with my cleric geared Engi… but only when I running with friend.
Still I stopped to use elixir gun, its dmg is not great, conditions never were problem, and using acidic blast (or how it is called) is wonky to say at least (after activation you have to change kit, but not too fast as it won’t activate, or you will fly away).

The main problem with healing power it scales way weaker than power (not to mention that power is amplified by precision and ferocity). Weak attack chains scales by 0.7 per hit, and some abilities scale more than 3.0, while I am not sure if there any healing that scales more than 0.4.

The best would be adding on top of healing to emphasize its “supportive role”, free buff duration and/or none damaging conditions duration and/or recharge on class mechanics (or even mix depending on equipment slot).

They also should do something with berserker gear (I wouldn’t mind removing it with free exchange for other gear). No to mention that gear with Power+Prec+defensive stat is almost unobtainable (zealots require large qualities of rare materials, and are there any other?).

Zenith.7301:

Those healing life blasts are so unreliable to land, it’s a joke I’m not even sure why you’re pretending people are going to receive that healing when slight ground elevations and character size bugs have been documented with life blast not healing.

1) If it’s so unreliable, then how is the OPs changes going to fix anything?
2) Huge monsters can cause problems with the life blast angle but the few times I tried it with unyielding blast, I found it able to hit allies fairly consistently as long as they were stacked in front of or flanking the boss.
3) What about the engineer, ele, and guard links I have in the 2nd post? Are those so unreliable at hitting allies? Is shout healing/compassionate banner too hard to hit allies with?

Zenith.7301:

And the simple fact is, you will never have gear variety if you don’t design encouters that MANDATE different gearing.

That’s the whole point of raids in other games, everyone would be DPS if tanks and healers were not necessary.

So if you’re going to make a set of stats that is virtually worthless and only useful to “noobs”, that’s a monstrous waste of development assets. Might as well take those armors off the game.

And the simple fact is that GW2 is about making sure there is NO MANDATE! So I could care less about other game’s raid trinity setup.

What’s wrong with having a noob set? How would removing the noob sets in a casual game be a good idea? And I don’t use noob as a derogatory term: I was a noob once when I started this game.

I’m in a play how you want guild. I run zerker 99% of the time and a lot of my guildies do as well. However, we do also have a few healers that do a good job. Like… full zerker ele and I won’t dodge a lot of the so called 1 hit Ko attacks. Just face tank and get healed. Is it optimal for speed runs? no, but I appreciate it and our runs take maybe 1 minute longer and it’s so much easier for me at least. If anything, my dps goes up cause I don’t waste time dodging/canceling channels. When I do pug, I often find myself being last one standing as I solo a boss in zerker gear. While not meta, an optimized healer would have been optimal in those pugs.

The bigger issue is that most phiw players don’t optimize. Like I had necro join a zerker group at fotm 12 and all he did was spam staff #2… When I asked him what he was doing he called himself a “clutch condi/healer.” That necro’s gear was the least of their problems. Just because something isn’t optimal in the meta doesn’t mean that there aren’t 2nd tier optimal/optimized builds.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/249pc7/effective_power_and_effective_health_of_all/

Just because something is not meta doesn’t automatically make it 100% useless for the common player. Even clerics has 60% of the effective power as zerker. Removing ferocity would make the ratio of offense/defense on tank sets too good that your recommended change would make glass cannons obsolete. That isn’t increasing diversity. It would also destroy PvP/WvW balance.

As I said in my second post, ask for more options/gear like zealots and +% outgoing healing.

Rehero.7821:

I don’t think all healing skills need to have their base reduced, however I believe all outgoing healing should have their base reduced and ratios ramped up to compensate.

The way I see it is there really isn’t a reason why someone running an offensive set should have a similar OUTGOING healing output as someone running clerics. For things like vigorous shouts or water blast finishers, I want to say regen but I feel like that would hurt peoples self sustain.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Monk
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Benevolence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Delicious_Rice_Ball
which adds an extra 32.5% bonus healing to allies.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQRBIhdu1JNi0Sj10g1NwhjJqFKorzAYGi6EouNOjCG-TBCBABat/wCHBgKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HC4kAAA-e
That is a “zerker necro” with 1 trait, rune, sigil and food changes from the pug meta. DS#1 heals allies for 585 health per auto attack.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQNAodWn0ISnNWaDG1ABdmoXomNI6B4CAq7iroeB-TxxDABMcCAIUJYlq/80+DXp8DP9BA8AAAA-e
That is a full “healer” with DS #1 healing 1500 per use.

Stop spreading misinformation. Healing power doesn’t need a buff and the changes the OP recommend would just screw over PvP balance. Embrace the +% outgoing healing stuff and ask for more.

I am in no way advocating NOT increasing the potential for increased Healing Power. I just question if it’s in anyway needed.

Altering the game to MAKE it needed is a selfish request that harms existing players and promotes the interest of another group that currently is unhappy about not being a wanted healer in the game. I get the desire, but asking the game to be so drastically altered to is not a “for the greater good”, issue …. at all.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Embrace the +% outgoing healing stuff and ask for more.

This. I don’t care much about healing myself, I just wanna heal my allies for tons. I’m really hoping for something like + %outgoing healing/+ healing power/+ boon duration gear or + %outgoing healing/+ healing power/+ power gear. I need more support. >_>

Kind of off-topic, but I also thought a stat which increased the power of outgoing boons on allies would be interesting.

Well/mark based healing/support necro.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRUQNAodWlk0olm10woGE0Nx1QJbAMAT3ARwFA3LC-TxBEABL8EAYS5Hn6D8U9HAOFAns/wWKBFFUGB-e

would be more healing based imho… as it gives you EASY perma regen, and the other dmgs are maybe not all applicable to all others but will keep you in the fight no matter what even when running a glass setup.

The wells are self healing (based on the standard vampiric track), the well of blood is a aoe heal with a aoe pulse heal, and aoe regen on cast. the dodges provide regen for party if in the field, staff 2 gives regen, focus 4 gives regen. All regens are buffed by 55%… duaration. and you actually get 1100 healing with riceballs. on a character which can get up to 2771 power and is able to crit with additional critical dmg….

or try 0/2/0/6/6 benevolence water ELE healer…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFUQFAWnMISLDW9AWOAdEGADwIHD6AfQRBgyDhbQPA-TxxDABNp8rTdAF/AA+U9nn2fAgLAAXKBFFUGB-e
heal on swap, on swap to water to water,on dodge, cleanse on swap, on dodge

add your rice ball and enjoy.
Both are very heal oriented builds , 1st more offensive, second more defensive.

rotten.9753:

Larynx.2453:

This.

Who honestly thought Berserker was a good idea. It is perfectly itemized, giving a player every single damage stat they want. With Power/Precision/X, at least we get a basic choice between Healing Power, Vitality, or Toughness. Additionally, without Ferocity scaling Precision becomes weaker, even allowing Power/X/Y to be viable. The exponential curve is less steep without Ferocity on gear.

I’d be all for adding two more stats with the removal of Ferocity and Condi Damage. Condi Duration, Boon Duration (in relevant amounts) are probably first in line. We could also see a Profession specific stat that gives you a % bonus towards whatever your 6th trait lines happens to be. Call it Finesse, lets say.

If you merge power with condition damage then condition duration is counter-productive since it strengthens condition damage just like ferocity strengthens power (precision applies to both because of procs).

Not really, condition duration could just be made useful for debuffs like chill and confusion and cripple and immobilize.

Then make AI and encounters that necessitate the use of these conditions. Make something like the Mordrem Lurcher in the labyrinth that can one shot you and ignores aegis/is immune to blinds, voila you actually need to control it.

Zenith.7301:

Then make AI and encounters that necessitate the use of these conditions. Make something like the Mordrem Lurcher in the labyrinth that can one shot you and ignores aegis/is immune to blinds, voila you actually need to control it.

Immune to stealth as well? Do you really think anet should reduce the number of choices in order to increase build diversity? Just like all those quotas…

It doesn’t matter

Only think actually able to defeat zerk is a functioning conditions system without the dumb cap @ 25 so we can add super toughness (~5000-6000 toughness), relatively low HP Dungeon-/ world- bosses, champions and other spawns which would -melt- under DOT so the meta would shift.

actually the necro builds combining conditions and healing power are an interesting niche as well… espcially with toughness as third stat

Why healing skill?

It should be ressing that should be nerfed and healing power affects it greatly.

rotten.9753:

Zenith.7301:

Then make AI and encounters that necessitate the use of these conditions. Make something like the Mordrem Lurcher in the labyrinth that can one shot you and ignores aegis/is immune to blinds, voila you actually need to control it.

Immune to stealth as well? Do you really think anet should reduce the number of choices in order to increase build diversity? Just like all those quotas…

Well, yeah. Maybe the mobs should just not attack at all so your choice is made easy and you just stack might and get your gold 1 minute after.

Since that seems to be what you people are after. Just stack on something and zerg it down with ice bow as some type of amazing, engaging play.

That’s great that healing works so well in PVP however it doesn’t work that well in PVE which is the argument people are posting about specifically when we’ve spoken out against the Zerker meta and for trinity like controls for the battlefield it’s always been in favor of PVE changes not PVP.

I find it very telling that people keep posting about PVP as an argument that PVE is functioning fine and is diverse and that there doesn’t need to be a large effort on the part of Anet to both buff Healing and Conditions due to their inherent problems they face right now.

Simply not related sorry.

Even the healing builds provided had basically to focus on piling as much bonuses (food, runes, sigils) and the few traits/skills that would make use of healing power to make such builds even minimally useful.
But that basically means that unless you use some very specific build, healing power isn’t worth of being used. Especially since you’re greatly diminishing your dps in doing so.
And mostly because unlike offensive stats, there are very few skills that use healing power to any avail. And, as noticed above, with low scaling factors.
I can agree when people say that making base healings low and scale H.Power higher would make such a stat basically required, and should be avoided (albeit, i would still see well some tweakings on that regard, and some healing skill revised for the specific purpose of making them work really well with healing power). The only other way to make it more useful, then, is to increase the ways healing power is used. Either giving bonus effects that scale purely with healing power (and thus with little to no base values) or giving it additional uses.
I would avoid making it work with either precision and/or ferocity, though, cause it would end in the same exponential issue that makes zerker so efficient compared to other stat combinations (and thus make those healings far too powerful).

A good way to make base stats more usefull is scaling spirit weapons with them. The shield’s hp and armor should scale with the user’s stats. Right now shield +wall makes +blocks make even zerker builds super tanky.

Zenith.7301:

rotten.9753:

Zenith.7301:

Then make AI and encounters that necessitate the use of these conditions. Make something like the Mordrem Lurcher in the labyrinth that can one shot you and ignores aegis/is immune to blinds, voila you actually need to control it.

Immune to stealth as well? Do you really think anet should reduce the number of choices in order to increase build diversity? Just like all those quotas…

Well, yeah. Maybe the mobs should just not attack at all so your choice is made easy and you just stack might and get your gold 1 minute after.

Since that seems to be what you people are after. Just stack on something and zerg it down with ice bow as some type of amazing, engaging play.

Make more 1 hit KO mechanics… because that will totally make healing power more useful which is the point of this thread. And that will definitely make tanky gear more useful too >_>

The thing is, chill, cripple and immobilize are useful, especially against some of the harder 1 hit KO fractal bosses. Sometimes, I cast glyph of storms in water/earth instead of air. Serious dps loss but perma chill/mass blinds is worth it. Sometimes my engi takes shorter CD on rifle/explosives instead of 10% more dmg with those because shorter CD on chill/immob (+ exploit weakness for cripple) is worth the dps loss. I still do that in zerker gear because it’s not like mossman or the legendary arch-diviner aren’t going to “1 hit KO” me anyways.

Manuhell.2759:

Even the healing builds provided had basically to focus on piling as much bonuses (food, runes, sigils) and the few traits/skills that would make use of healing power to make such builds even minimally useful.
But that basically means that unless you use some very specific build, healing power isn’t worth of being used. Especially since you’re greatly diminishing your dps in doing so.

You don’t equip zerker gear and suddenly do massive damage. You equip the right food, runes, sigils, traits/skills weapons etc that you mention. It’s all a sliding scale of more of increasing 1 thing means not increasing another. Keepers gear still has high power/low precision and is only a ~14% dps loss compared to zerker. Those rice balls are dirt cheap too compared to max dps food that can cost upwards of half a gold.

Again, those builds I posted were healing about 2k per second in an aoe. At what point will buffing healing power suddenly become useful? Will 10k healing per second make you happy? 30k per second? At the end of the day, experienced players that can use active defense (which includes support/CC) won’t need those heals no matter how high they are. As much as people think zerker just blow stuff up and don’t know how to dodge, how else do you think those same zerker players solo bosses like mai trin and lupi? I don’t go full tank/heals for those.

Let’s go the other way, what if you take like 1k "unavoidable damage per second?
Then you just get a 5 warrio zerker meta with 6/5/3/0/0 for healing signet, adrenaline health and life steal food to counter it. Is that any better than what we have now?

To clarify, I want more bosses like mai trin and lupi so don’t pull this kind of crap argument because I disagree with making healing mandatory.

Since that seems to be what you people are after. Just stack on something and zerg it down with ice bow as some type of amazing, engaging play.

Edit: Also can’t believe I forgot a trait I use to solo arah p2 with on my thief.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Precision
because face tank and healing for some bosses is better than 20% more dps <50%
Either Anet makes people start to take over 2k unavoidable damage per second and so optimal healers are required or healing stays something that helps imperfect play but still leaves room at the top for perfect play in zerker. If they make the 2k heal check required, they kitten everyone off. They kitten the people that don’t want the trinity obviously. They also kitten off all the PHIW because 2k heals per sec still requires a lot of optimization/specific class specs.

Cosmin.8306:

Larynx.2453:

A warrior’s Finesse stat would increase your CD reduction for adrenaline skills, thief would be steal CD, and so on. Either way, stats need a big overhaul.

I wonder what the ranger will get, “improved pet AI” ? , if so i would go Finesse/Finesse/Finesse gear on both of mine.

Joke aside, the idea is not bad . There are some gear and combat issues that need to be addressed, either in HoT or sooner.

Pet Attributes.

Manuhell.2759:

Even the healing builds provided had basically to focus on piling as much bonuses (food, runes, sigils) and the few traits/skills that would make use of healing power to make such builds even minimally useful.

Yeah well It I traited for full DPS it wouldn’t be a healing build now would it?

But that basically means that unless you use some very specific build, healing power isn’t worth of being used. Especially since you’re greatly diminishing your dps in doing so.

Shifting from zerker to zealot on armor and weapon loses you ~40% crit dmg, so you’ll end up with ~170% crit dmg vs ~210 , for full Zealot it would be 155 vs 210%
If you are running a normal build U shouldbe at 50% crit chance losing nothing for half the attacks and losing 20% dps on the other half for a 10% dps loss on normal fights, While under the efects of fury you’re losing noting on 30% and 20% on 70% of the attacks in the end leaving you with 14% less DPS for ~1000 healing power (on ele or on necro)
Of course shifting from zerker to zealot completely will lose you a bit more as zealot ascneded trinkts do not exist, and you will need to default to exotics…
If you are running a normal build U shouldbe at 50% crit chance losing nothing for half the attacks and losing 30% dps on the other half for a 15% dps loss on normal fights, While under the efects of fury you’re losing noting on 30% and 30% on 70% of the attacks in the end leaving you with 21% less DPS for ~1400 healing power (on ele oor on necro)

( Calculations not counting runes/ sigils/ food, which could add ~0-50% additional DPS depending on usage, when using a non bloodlust stacking sigil, or non dungeon specifics, non night non force and so on. optimim combo from runes and sigils would be 46.5%, healing build will do considerably less but will be vastly more utility based.)
And mostly because unlike offensive stats, there are very few skills that use healing power to any avail. And, as noticed above, with low scaling factors.

I can agree when people say that making base healings low and scale H.Power higher would make such a stat basically required, and should be avoided (albeit, i would still see well some tweakings on that regard, and some healing skill revised for the specific purpose of making them work really well with healing power). The only other way to make it more useful, then, is to increase the ways healing power is used. Either giving bonus effects that scale purely with healing power (and thus with little to no base values) or giving it additional uses.

Healing power affects water fields if you blast ’m yourself, affects regen, affects ressing, and affects healing skills and gear… and last of all vampiric traits/abilities. (life leach)

I would avoid making it work with either precision and/or ferocity, though, cause it would end in the same exponential issue that makes zerker so efficient compared to other stat combinations (and thus make those healings far too powerful).

Which would leave a lot of semi bunker options in the blue ad destroy uses for shaman, magi and aphothecary (are there uses for those anyways in the present game?) and clerics and nomads which are the main bunker heal runes atm…. Even sigil of water was modded to “on hit” to make it synergize with mace on clerics guardian….

Concluding :
zealot instead of zerk for a dps build would add decent healing losing 15% dps, but the need for a diferent trait setup, other runes, food and sigils destroys the DPS, or at least hampers i,. especially in a buffed speedrun party (50+% dps loss), but in normal dungeons and the open world where things are more free it will lose less then 20%…. leaving it very viable for open world, l80 and l80 EXP runs and carrying newbs/noobs.

For clerics or nomads.. Well clerics has a fringe use in open world / WVW (EotM) but you’ll need enough dps to tag. Nomads in open world dungeons is a pure troll build…. which has no other use then being part of a dedicated self sustain build in very hostile environments where DPS can be handed down to others. (WvW commanding)

DingoVad.1945:

Hey guys

I suggest that Arena lower the base healing of all skills, and instead increase the scaling of healing power, right now you have no use of building support for dungeons because everyone already has enough.
Another thing could be to add a stat that controls the strength of other support skills like aegis, retaliation, swiftness, might and defence.

I feel like this game needs a little bit of a buff to support oriented players

Thanks for listening

Another one of these…

Support is measured by the utility skills, weapon skills and traits you have equipped and it’s quite powerful in the game.

Support oriented players can Support just fine now. So you want to limit the gear choice of those Support players by making a new trait for boons and increasing Healing Power, so a Support oriented player won’t be able to Support with any gear he wants but will have to get Cleric gear (and use that specific trait) essentially limiting his gear choice a LOT.

What would this accomplish exactly other than limiting variety and choice for those exact players you want to help?

maddoctor.2738:

DingoVad.1945:

Hey guys

I suggest that Arena lower the base healing of all skills, and instead increase the scaling of healing power, right now you have no use of building support for dungeons because everyone already has enough.
Another thing could be to add a stat that controls the strength of other support skills like aegis, retaliation, swiftness, might and defence.

I feel like this game needs a little bit of a buff to support oriented players

Thanks for listening

Another one of these…

Support is measured by the utility skills, weapon skills and traits you have equipped and it’s quite powerful in the game.

Support oriented players can Support just fine now. So you want to limit the gear choice of those Support players by making a new trait for boons and increasing Healing Power, so a Support oriented player won’t be able to Support with any gear he wants but will have to get Cleric gear (and use that specific trait) essentially limiting his gear choice a LOT.

What would this accomplish exactly other than limiting variety and choice for those exact players you want to help?

He actually has a point scaling shoul be better. If we had damage scale like healing we’d all run zerk but would be hitting like wet soggy overcooked noodles in the rain…
Imagine HB GS dmg modifiers all be like 0.125 of power. with a power of 1400 max (175 bonus)….. instead of 0.66 with a power of 3750 max… (2500 bonus)

I also agree with above poster, if you manage well you do not havee ttake any damage to heal… -NONE- I’ve ran dungeons above 90% ALL of the time…..100% kohler in AC tends to be nasty but if you dodge well you should be good as well… Feel free to replace Kohler by Alpha.

Maybe Anet should swap out power and healing next April Fool’s…
We would be alive at world bosses but take an hour to kill them….
While they’re at it they could change precison for toughness and
condition dmg/ferocity for vitality… Wet noodle mayhem…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

You don’t equip zerker gear and suddenly do massive damage. You equip the right food, runes, sigils, traits/skills weapons etc that you mention. It’s all a sliding scale of more of increasing 1 thing means not increasing another. Keepers gear still has high power/low precision and is only a ~14% dps loss compared to zerker. Those rice balls are dirt cheap too compared to max dps food that can cost upwards of half a gold.

But zerker gear (or whatever gear, for that matter) doesn’t inherently depend on such food/runes/sigils/traits to be used. Or either skills, for that matter – the offensive ones are the large majority, anyway. Sure, they increase their effectiveness quite a bit, but they aren’t strictly needed just to use said stats.

On the other hand, healing power is either all or nothing. Any in-between is just a waste of points, as many of their applications – especially the prolonged ones – rely on master and grandmaster traits that could be used for better purposes. Same with runes, sigils and so on. Without those you don’t even have the means to use the aforemented stat. As very few skills use it (and, as we said above, they don’t even scale that well).
It ends up being a build tailored to use a single stat…leaving all the other ones in a vacuum. As you said yourself, you need all those things to increase damage…but you had to spend them just to being able to use healing power. So not only you end up lacking one (or more) of the offensive stats, but you also miss all the other means of increasing your damage, even if you still had one or more stats – depending on the stat combination used – that could have done good use of them.
In the end, the main issue is that while you can specialize heavily as a zerk – because those stats all work together toward a single purpose – you can’t do the same with healing power and whatever stat it is on such a gear. They inevitably end up working toward different purposes.

I should add that the rice you mentioned is dirt cheap because no one uses it. And for the same reasons i explained above.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Again, those builds I posted were healing about 2k per second in an aoe. At what point will buffing healing power suddenly become useful? Will 10k healing per second make you happy? 30k per second? At the end of the day, experienced players that can use active defense (which includes support/CC) won’t need those heals no matter how high they are. As much as people think zerker just blow stuff up and don’t know how to dodge, how else do you think those same zerker players solo bosses like mai trin and lupi? I don’t go full tank/heals for those.

Let’s go the other way, what if you take like 1k "unavoidable damage per second?
Then you just get a 5 warrio zerker meta with 6/5/3/0/0 for healing signet, adrenaline health and life steal food to counter it. Is that any better than what we have now?

To clarify, I want more bosses like mai trin and lupi so don’t pull this kind of crap argument because I disagree with making healing mandatory.

And indeed, in the post you quoted, i did say that a straight power-up wouldn’t be the solution. Healing power isn’t supposed to be a necessary stat, thus skills that use said stat end up scaling at most moderately with it, while having good base values overall. Any significant change in that regard would impact the overall balance of the game. Albeit, there could be done some tweakings and some healing skills could be tailored toward a better use of the stat (like having low base value, good scaling and some particular effect added in).
As i detailed above, rather, what is lacking are the means to use said stat. As now, you basically have to build specificatly just to use it, let alone optimizing its uses.
That could be changed. There could be more weapons that natively have uses for healing power – maybe even some skill tailored to scale well with it – but most of all, there could just be other uses introduced for said statistic, thus increasing its scope. An horizontal power-up of the stat rather than a vertical one, so to speak. It wouldn’t do a single thing drastically better – that’s what we want to avoid, for balance purposes – but rather, it would be used to do more things (and thus increasing variety).

Zenith.7301:

Well, yeah. Maybe the mobs should just not attack at all so your choice is made easy and you just stack might and get your gold 1 minute after.

Since that seems to be what you people are after. Just stack on something and zerg it down with ice bow as some type of amazing, engaging play.

This game is a virtual princess simulator, don’t expect engaging gameplay from it.

I actually have one cleric Guardian(I have 2 guards and wanted to try it out) and found one major problem with it. While beeing able to keep almost everyone alive in any kind of situation whatsoever, there are way to many scenarios where you need to kill something really quikly, and therefore need the dps rather then the heals(examples would be: having to kill flame legion assassins before they reach magg, killing bosses within their time limits, outdamaging the regeneration of some opponents).

There are just way to many situations where you have to kill something in a certain timelimit, thats the mainproblem I found while running a cleric build. the only time you can really get value out of a healbuild is when you are in a long fight where the opponent does lots of damage over time, because if the damage is to bursty and just downs people instantly, healing is just not valuable anymore But hey, maybe if we should really get 10 man raids in Hot, my Cleric-Guardian might get dungeonplaytime again

Seishiro.7468:

I actually have one cleric Guardian(I have 2 guards and wanted to try it out) and found one major problem with it. While beeing able to keep almost everyone alive in any kind of situation whatsoever, there are way to many scenarios where you need to kill something really quikly, and therefore need the dps rather then the heals(examples would be: having to kill flame legion assassins before they reach magg, killing bosses within their time limits, outdamaging the regeneration of some opponents).

There are just way to many situations where you have to kill something in a certain timelimit, thats the mainproblem I found while running a cleric build. the only time you can really get value out of a healbuild is when you are in a long fight where the opponent does lots of damage over time, because if the damage is to bursty and just downs people instantly, healing is just not valuable anymore But hey, maybe if we should really get 10 man raids in Hot, my Cleric-Guardian might get dungeonplaytime again

I found that I had to create a guardian in order to enjoy a healing role because it was the only one of the classes that seemed to have come close to having that role. Heals automatically with a trait, heals when you dodge, heals when you put down zones with certain weapons. And unlike the Engineer for example, you didn’t have to press 3 buttons for the big heals instead of just one like all of the other classes out there can do.

Yet isn’t it interesting how even with these options, it still didn’t scale properly as a healing spec. It didn’t didn’t get the full benefit of getting + healing across the board on every item I put on the character to boost this stat?! That’s part of the problem here. Certain classes get it extremely easy and there’s a problem with scaling. It needs a serious looking into.

Manuhell.2759:

But zerker gear (or whatever gear, for that matter) doesn’t inherently depend on such food/runes/sigils/traits to be used. Or either skills, for that matter – the offensive ones are the large majority, anyway. Sure, they increase their effectiveness quite a bit, but they aren’t strictly needed just to use said stats.

On the other hand, healing power is either all or nothing. Any in-between is just a waste of points, as many of their applications -

Wrong:
Food, runes, sigils and traits all have a lot of 10% modifiers for dps. They easily make up for 40% buff if not closer to 100% buff to the damage of a max zerker. The good thing about wanting to go healing builds is that they don’t take up all of these slots to start making a difference unless you really max things out. For food specifically, I notice that most tyrians in dungeons are always starving. A few copper for simple rice balls that even beggars can afford is a nice buff to team heals ^^. Only seaweed salad is a 10% buff to only a few classes/builds and the good stuff is expensive. My point was that it’s so cheap, why not use it when most ppl are not bothering with food.

I still want an answer for anyone that states that scaling is borked and needs to be improved. Again, how much of an increase in necessary? What is “GOOD” scaling?

Like if I go zealots on any class instead of zerker, it’s a 14% dps loss. With everything else held constant and kept to a zerker meta trait etc setup, that’s really not that bad. Healing power gained… 710 for every class.

So if I apply perma regen from… a meta reflect mesmer build. The bonus healing is 710*.125 per second or 89 health per second. It’s not “amazing” but that’s a passive trait while having just 1 phantasm alive. That takes no effort for a mesmer. So what is good scaling for this build. Like ACTUALLY GIVE ME A NUMBER! Is .5 good? Does 710*.5 = 335 bonus health per second from a passive minor trait with 14% dps loss gear sound balanaced? Is a scaling of 1 good? 710 health bonus health per second? Do you not realize how quickly broken regen would become as it increased in scaling? That’s also before any of the +% to outgoing healing kicks in or any other trait or heal.

Engineer specifically: Saying that regen and bomb heals and super elixir scaling all sucks is ignoring the fact that you can have all of these going off at the same time if you want. If you drop the bomb heals, you can basically go full meta engi with the 6/6/0/0/2 and still have super elixir and aoe regen. That alone is basically a 0.1 + 0.125 at the same time. Is .225 per second bad scaling? That’s before food or water blasts are factored in. Given that engineers dps is about 1/3 condi based even in zerker meta builds, zealots is closer to a 9% dps loss. Consider that they are amazing at vunerability and ok at might stacks and it’s not like that 9% even matters as far as the group dps. Like zealots engineer in otherwise full meta setup compared to full zerker engi is like… maybe a 2% loss in dps for the group. 710 HP with regen and super elixir scaling is 159 bonus per second for scaling. That’s half a healing signet for the group without even trying to be good at healing and again, a minuscule dps loss for the group.

Seriously give me a number. What is good scaling? Do you honestly expect your healing to somehow exceed that of the base healing of each class? Cause flame blasting a healing turret overchange every 15 seconds already surpasses healing signet even when wearing zerker gear. Add 710 HP and the super elixir/regen and a 2nd or 3rd blast finisher and you are healing a significant amount with minor dps loss in zealots gear. If there was a healing power main + precision/power food ~30% dps loss over zerker and even better healing. Add a +%outgoing healing bonus and it gets even better. So no, it doesn’t require full investment to start having decent healing.

If you expect a healing weapon with a scaling of 1 on auto attack then it has to be a class that has ZERO other healing abilities and even then, you will still get 2.3k heals on auto attacks just from scaling alone. Add the fact that there is always a base heal in there and you get a completely broken game.

Tldr:
Don’t just say there is a problem. GIVE ME A “GOOD” SCALING NUMBER! If you can’t, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

@duckduckboom

You are considering perma regen and that the mesmer would be the only source. What if there is already someone giving regen ? What if the guardian pop virtue of resolve? See your healing now is not even working that well.

Also if you start dropping water fields to be blaset or any other field to get extra healing you might end up covering a fire field and be a problem for the group.

You want a good scaling number? My 2 cents at 1.0 for skills (weapon/ traits/utilties) and 0.25 for regen combined with a reduction at the base healing from regen boon and all healing skills (excluding the self healing #6).

Another possibility would be keep the same coeficient for regen but make it stack in amount of stacks (like might and stability) and not in duration.

Still don’t think the numbers are the mainproblem, the mainproblem for healing is in the design of many dungeons, that many bosses or dungeonevents are easier or only doable when you can kill something really quik, it is not about the long, sustained battles.

that and the fact, most of the time the damage you take is very bursty, and once you are downed, you are not affected by many of the healskills anymore(pulsing sigils and wells still work I belive, but regeneration or the guardianvirtue won’t help you getting up faster, but I might be wrong there)

maybe healing should get the 926 base as well and scale on from that point onwards linearly.. like power…..

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

healing power and defensive gear is overpowered.

Do this with spider queen in AC without dodging or moving solo then I’ll also agree its overpowered.

@ Wexxes, this was before a bit of the AI change but here you go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo
While she doesn’t do her poison aoe in that video, I’m sure a group of 5 can survive with group healing. It’s not nearly as scary as lupis aoe barrage either. As for solo… I’m fairly certain a few classes in nomads gear could pull it off. I’ll have to mess with it later.

The perma regen mesmer was to show how easy it would be to quickly start to “exploit” healing power that scaled well. I’m aware of it not stacking well with teams but if someone tells a group, I got 1.5k healing power+32.5% outgoing heals for 500 healing per second, don’t use regen, I’m sure most ppl could hold back on regen spam.

Bomb heals stack, super elixir stacks, soothing mist stacks, guardian F2 mace 1/2 stacks, symbol heals stack, necro heals stack, water blasting stacks, mantra heals stack, sigils stack etc. etc. Regen is just 1 boon so I don’t really consider your counter argument as an actual counter argument given how many other sources can stack with it as we are talking about the usefulness of healing power in general not regen.

Stacking regen intensity sounds interesting and I could get behind that but I’m not sure anet wants more of that for the same reason that conditions are capped at 25 and weigh heavy on server performance. Good idea though.

3 second water field timed well when ppl need healing is not a problem. PS warriors also don’t care about fields for might.

Most of the changes you recommend would really mess with PvP which is why I prefer the +% outgoing heals as those don’t affect pvp balance nearly as much. Ideally there isn’t a split because I don’t think there should be a huge “healing difference shock” when going back and forth. Even if we ignore that though, let’s think about a mace guardian with symbols that heal. So what coefficient does that symbol heal get? What coefficient does that mace auto heal get? 1 as you say. Add regen and virtues to that and the +32.5% bonus, your coefficients would give a mace guardian about 2 coefficients per second… with 1k healing power that’s 2.6k healing per second to allies… with just mace 1/2 spam. Maxing it out a ~ 1.7k hp would give you 4.5k heals per second. So like… healing signet x12 to your allies. I have 11k to 15k health on my characters at lvl 80. The idea that someone can bring me from the brink of death to 100% with 2-3 auto attacks sounds fundamentally broken for gw2.

@ Seishiro, I disagree. If people like myself and others can solo dungeons in zerker gear, it’s not about fights not lasting long enough or not having sustain battles. Those solo fights are very much about sustain and not screwing up. Usually the sustain is in dodges/blocks etc but it still is very much about sustain. The dungeons are almost 3 years old, they’ve been figured out/solved. I can’t think of a single fight that becomes impossible if you don’t kill the enemy quick.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Tldr:
Don’t just say there is a problem. GIVE ME A “GOOD” SCALING NUMBER! If you can’t, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

What about actually reading my post and making a reply that actually makes sense in regard to whatever is written there?
Especially seeing as i’ve already written multiple times that a straight increase to scaling would be likely to cause balance issues. And both times that part has been ignored.
Even the part you quoted was completely unrelated with the reply you did, anyway.
I’ll repeat it here: as the majority of the skills are offensive in nature, you will always have ways to use the stats provided by zerker equips. You have the means to use said stats, and runes,sigils,traits,foods either empower them or give other means to use them. And this is true even if you aren’t doing a purely offensive build. Toughness and vitality work passively, anyway. And whatever amount of power, precision and ferocity you have, you’ll use them either way – as i already said, the majority of the skills are offensive in nature, thus scaling with those stats.
Healing power, on the other hand, mostly depends on runes,sigils,traits,food just to be used. Having high healing power means nothing if you have no means to use it.
And the few means givens by the skills are, usually, provided by utilities. Often that alone makes them mutually exclusive with whatever you would have used to improve your dps otherwise. Same applies with traits, food, sigils, runes, by the way. Instead of having a choice, you end up being forced to use all those together, cause mixing all up would end up being terribly underperforming.
Because then either you then lack the means to use it – thus you’ve mostly wasted those points of healing power – or you’re diminishing either the means to use or ways to empower your other stats – thus making the other offensive stats you may have got less useful.
And all of this matter, that i also explained in the post above, has nothing to do with whatever you replied to me.

I’ll repeat it again: what we need are the means to use said stat, not some high scaling that would just create balance issues.
For that purpose, we can have some healing skills that scale well with it – so to provide an alternative for people that increase said stat, while leaving the other healing skills to people who don’t want to improve it. And we can have main weapons and utilities that natively use such a stat. But then this may cause another issue – piling up healing effects would be similar as increasing the scaling. That’s why we need other ways to use healing power – ways that aren’t related to healing hp. Thus increasing the scope of the stat. As i said above, an horizontal power-up, rather than vertical. It would do more things, rather than doing just one really good. Cause in healing power’s case, “doing just one really good” means being an healer, and the game is balanced over not having an healer, thus we can’t have it.
I hope i won’t have to explain this another time.

As dmg coeficient is almost always equal or higher than 1.0 I think healing scaling with 1.0 would be balanced and fair.

My post was not only directed at you (Manuhell). There are multiple people giving different ideas of what’s wrong with HP that I disagree with and the common idea is that scaling is bad.

For you specifically:
So the whole part about a meta engi in zerker gear or even zealots having minimal dps loss while being able to utilize healing well is…. irellevant to your idea that we need more ways to use healing? A zerker necro changing a single trait and suddenly becoming an effective healer in death shroud is “too much of a sacrifice to heal a bit”?

Your argument sounds the same to me as someone saying I have max condition damage/dire gear but I don’t want to use a condition weapon and condition traits so conditions are broken. It’s ludicrous that all weapons should have healing built into them. So of course you need to spec into healing somewhat/choose the right weapons/traits etc. Why should someone NOT have to trait for healing to become better at it?

Healing isn’t a binary function that suddenly becomes good the second you have all healing stuff turned up to 11. Why else do you think celestial is great on engi or ele in the pvp meta? It’s not that they maxed out healing power. They have a lot of little sources of healing that add up really well. If you don’t believe it’s the encounter design of PvE or healing power scaling that is the problem, then PvP rules apply here as far as good sources of healing being completely viable at mid tiers of healing investment. Same for power/condition dmg with those classes/builds: zerker and rabid are better at each individually but being a hybrid and utilizing both at 60% efficiency is still great.

Guardian mace 1/2 and staff 2/4 and F2 have built in healing. Ele staff 1/3/5 and ice bow 1 have built in healing or just ele water attunement in general. Healing turret, well of blood, signet of vamp, healing springs, healing breeze are also all heals that affect your allies but (except healing turret) are all worst at personal healing than other selfish heals. Is that not what you just asked for?

At this point I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree because I don’t see a moderate investment in group healing as useless and some imaginary switch suddenly makes it viable. I also don’t agree with someone investing in healing should be able to make use of their dps stats as well as a full glass cannon and I disagree with the idea that someone investing in healing power suddenly does crap dps. There are many shades in between.

xDudisx.5914:

As dmg coeficient is almost always equal or higher than 1.0 I think healing scaling with 1.0 would be balanced and fair.

True story. While we’re at it, condition scaling is also unbalanced and unfair. They should have a coefficient of 1 so that my 25 bleed stacks does 51k damage >_>

For reference, gs warrior auto attacks are .7, .7 .9 with 100b being .53 × 8 with only the last hit being 1.1