Guild Wars 2

I am concerned about some of the information given in the latest Heart of Thorns blog post, seen here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/journey-into-the-heart-of-maguuma-in-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

Everything mentioned within that post sounds fantastic, however i am concerned with two key points that i would like some clarification on.

1. There is still no mention on the number of new maps we will receive in HoT. We know there will be more then one, but ArenaNet are deliberately going out of their way to stress the number of new maps we will receive in HoT will be significantly less then what ArenaNet have traditionally given us in the past. This scares me. While i strongly agree with quality > quantity, the fewer maps the quicker people will be asking for another expansion/more content. Dry Top and The Silverwastes are already becoming dead maps because the area is so small with the same repeatable content.

2. While ‘The Silverwastes’ and ‘Dry Top’ are fun end-game maps filled with content, there is far to much happening in such a tiny space. The maps are microscopic in size, it is overwhelming! The only reason these two maps currently work so well is because at the end of the day we get to leave them. We get to return to Lions Arch and relax, or go to Lornar’s Pass and take-in the stunning scenery. We have other options to remove us from the chaos, Living Story did a great job at sending us away from The Silverwastes and Dry Top, it was a nice break from the compact zerg-grind-fest.

Look at the large maps currently in game, still too this very day veteran players are only now discovering events, locations, npc, dialogue that have been there since day one. I have 100% world completion and yet every single map i enter is still exciting and new to me, there is always something new for me to find… Dry Top and The Silverwastes fail this significantly. There is nothing new to discover in these maps, they are filled with content yet at the same time i have seen, done, experienced, every single thing within those maps i have become repulsed by them. They have become nothing more then the current hip cool zerg-grind-fest that will be completely abandoned once HoT Launches, these maps will be dead, no one will ever step foot in those maps for the remaining for GW2 lifespan, just like Southsun Cove.

Please learn from the mistakes of Southsun Cove, Dry Top, and The Silverwastes.

1 Does number matter? As long as the maps are big and has lots of replayability. Does it really matter?
2 That’s like your OP bro.

I disagree with Silverwastes being small. It has the perfect size for such a meta event.
However, I am worrying about afk players in those maps and portals at jumping puzzles.

As @warbignime said, quality > quantity. The number of maps shouldnt be the most important part.

From the video that showed the new region, it looked anything but small.

And on the sivlerwastes/drytop maps, thats subkective, i very much liked them.

Arnath.2319:

If every map within the Maguuma jungle is a small compact zerg-fest i am going to be extremely disappointed and become sick of the place quickly. Todays blog post made it sound just like that.

Did you watch the movie? It gives some hints on the scale of those maps, and holy kitten, they look huge.

Why are there so many threads about the same topic, when this discussion has been beaten to death already. We can discuss this when we know more, but for now, did you see the trailer? Those maps are at least 3x the size of silverwastes, and if they are jam packed with content like silverwastes, then i’m happy.

Arnath.2319:

I really hope that the Heart of Maguuma has learnt from the massive design flaws that Dry Top and The Silverwastes suffered from. Otherwise players will grow bored of these maps very quickly.

What exactly are these massive design flaws? I have had nothing but fun in those maps.

I think variety in scenery is a big deal. I remember playing a pirate themed mmo and it was super fun for a short period of time and quickly got grating. It was grating because it was the same environment all the time. Fantasy MMOs work thanks in part to varied environments.

Also, unless they plan on making the maps we have now as chock full of content as the new maps, ArenaNet run the risk of still stumbling into what they were hoping to avoid in the first place. Why would any of us want to go back to events we have done for almost 3 years in old maps if the new ones are so full of things to do? Why would having more maps mean less content?

I think if new maps were designed like older ones it would be fine. I would gladly take varied environments that I could explore over a small handful of big maps with the same ecosystem.

My initial concerns are a bit closer to being justified. It sounds like these maps will be pretty close to Dry Top/Sivlerwaste in that we’re all going to repeat large DEs to progress to boss fights and/or grind out loot/rep/tokens, and we’re going to do until our eyes bleed or the next new lucrative area is added to the game. When that happens, these maps will be abandoned and those who haven’t explored the content or ground out the unlocks are going to be left behind.

I see SW and Drytop full all the time. I don’t see where the deadzones are coming in, and also I think they’re brilliant design for players to keep coming back to them.

We will get new maps not many, but they will be divided to phases. Maybe it will give some time-flowing feeling.

Instead of map where we only have arguing and fire. Second map where we see unite of Pale Reavers. And third with other.

Instead of time gated maps we get maps with ‘visible’ time changes in phases. If phases will repeat it will limit words: I would like to see it but now it changed and I can’t.

Or I mess something?

So reading through the blog, I saw the word “maps” used twice which means at least two maps with HoT. I personally believe that there will be more than two and each map will have multiple levels as shown in videos and in the game design of the Silverwastes map that we currently have.

Will we get as many maps as EotN for GW1? No. I’m not expecting anything close to that. Truthfully though, those areas were large but sparse in content and created for a different game design. GW1 didn’t have open world content so map design really can’t match.

When looking at the Silverwastes as an example of what we will be getting in HoT, then I am happy with the design scheme for the most part. I do think that the Silverwastes are a bit small for all that is going on, but hopefully HoT will address that.

Really my biggest concern is price, not number of areas, as we KNOW HoT will not have the same amount of content that GW2 came with…so hopefully the price will be comparable.

There are people on the forums talking about $50 as a good price point and I think that they either have far too much disposable income or are just NCSoft investors. Paying over $25 for what they have announced is unreasonable in today’s market.

MokahTGS.7850:

So reading through the blog, I saw the word “maps” used twice which means at least two maps with HoT. I personally believe that there will be more than two and each map will have multiple levels as shown in videos and in the game design of the Silverwastes map that we currently have.

Will we get as many maps as EotN for GW1? No. I’m not expecting anything close to that. Truthfully though, those areas were large but sparse in content and created for a different game design. GW1 didn’t have open world content so map design really can’t match.

When looking at the Silverwastes as an example of what we will be getting in HoT, then I am happy with the design scheme for the most part. I do think that the Silverwastes are a bit small for all that is going on, but hopefully HoT will address that.

Really my biggest concern is price, not number of areas, as we KNOW HoT will not have the same amount of content that GW2 came with…so hopefully the price will be comparable.

There are people on the forums talking about $50 as a good price point and I think that they either have far too much disposable income or are just NCSoft investors. Paying over $25 for what they have announced is unreasonable in today’s market.

20/25 – why? becouse It isn’t campaing, it need original game firstly that is why.
Secondary many of players will never buy it, but they will be able to get most of things from others via Trading Post. If they announce too high price, just less people will buy it and more people will laugh at those who bought, cuz they have nearly the same w/o adventure into heart of jungle (they can see streams, movies etc or read). Probably too high price = more negative feelings ing in future. 50-.- I agree with u, not really with others.

Did you watch the movie? It gives some hints on the scale of those maps, and holy kitten, they look huge.

That video does not show us how big or small the new maps are. We still haven’t received any information on there size. That video only shows some of the verticality that we will receive, not overall map size.

What exactly are these massive design flaws? I have had nothing but fun in those maps.

I had fun too. HAD fun. Just like we all HAD fun in Southsun Cove… look how that turned out. Dry Top and The Silverwastes are good temporary end game maps, but they will be dead, just like Southsun Cove, once Heart of Thorns launches.

I would much rather see large maps that even after two plus years people still discover fun and interesting things. ArenaNet are setting themselves up for temporary gain, long term pain.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Arnath.2319:

I really hope that the Heart of Maguuma has learnt from the massive design flaws that Dry Top and The Silverwastes suffered from. Otherwise players will grow bored of these maps very quickly.

What exactly are these massive design flaws? I have had nothing but fun in those maps.

To be honest I find Orr and Frostgorge way more enjoyable. Dry Top and the Silverwastes are very repetitive.

It could be a fun expansion if it’s cheap enough though.

Worst case to me is it more than $30 just a get something that’s sort of Super LS Season 3… that is maybe more detail than usual but still a series just struggling like crazy to impress people on the gameplay level again.

I like the idea of the new map being vertically integrated, and of being much more content rich, buuuuut… I do admit that I would like to see more maps simply out of a sense of having more “land” to explore. New terrains, new vistas (not the in-game sense), new horizons.

Something that bothers me about the new maps (Dry Top and Silverwaste), aside from their tiny size and repetitive nature, is that they’re too busy. With so many group events running so close to each other, there’s not much time or room to just take it all in and enjoy the environment. It’s all destination and no journey. I fear that’s going to also be the case with these new maps.

Yes, that’s exactly what I mean, darkace. With the original maps, there was very much a more relaxed pace, where you could just stroll along, take in the sights, and occasionally finding a small, out of the way location that turned out to have interesting information regarding lore or world building.

In the new maps like Dry Top or Silverwastes, it seems like there’s an event going on EVERYWHERE. There’s no place to really just sit back and enjoy the view.

All i am personally worried about is the overall performance of the game. The new maps have a ton of stuff going on and on top of that it expands vertically. Considering the state of today’s GW2 performance i am worried.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

If they announce too high price, just less people will buy it and more people will laugh at those who bought, cuz they have nearly the same w/o adventure into heart of jungle (they can see streams, movies etc or read). Probably too high price = more negative feelings ing in future. 50-.- I agree with u, not really with others.

I can’t see how ppl hat will not buy expac will get masteries and revy throught the trading post….

I would add to the first post that dry top and SW it also demand time to play at it. It is not a casual event were you go, have fun and leave.
No, on those maps you have to work, for an hour or for an specific time, to achieve the reward. At the beginnig is good, of course, cause it is new, and you are discobering it, and managing it. But after 20 times, it is just too long, too demanding, and with not enough reward to want to repeat it again.
Im sacared about the new expansion, cause i believe for what I saw yesterday, that it is going to be just 2-3 maps in a SW or dry top way. Content repeateble for a long time until you get bored and tired of it. And with 2-3 maps, that “boring line” can get faster than you think… And paying for that? cmon..

My concern beside the actual map number is what the maps do contain. I mean, they look absolutely great in the trailers and sure will in the actual game – but: if they just give us a massive amount of events, it will be super boring after a couple of hours.
Consider SW and DT, whoever still is doing these events does it only for the crests and geodes. Noone would do them without the grind element in it. Those maps would be completely dead.

It’s inevitable: To tie the playerbase to the new maps, you have to give them something to do that lasts more than just 2 hours. The easiest way to achieve that is grinding elements. Maybe the new outpost thing can handle the boredom a bit better, but i doubt that it can handle it forever. It’s all about what you get in return for doing events. Karma is nice, but nothing new. New sort of loot can be a turn on, but only until you have no need for it anymore…

I really hope HoT maps will have some huge amount of gameplay variety and lore. Otherwise i can asure you it’s going to be a fail.