Guild Wars 2

eisberg.2379:

fellyn.5083:

Fenom.9457:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if it’s unfinished or not but it’s blatantly obvious the grind for elites (when the cost was 400 hp) was padding the content and that’s it.

I’ll never buy kitten expansion from Anet again. Not unless it’s the size of at least Nightfall. We got $25-30 worth of content at best.

Now I’m not saying I hate HoTs, I love playing the revenant, it’s breathed some new life back into the game for me but that doesn’t excuse how little content there actually is in the expansion.

h

They said up front for a long time this would be their smallest expansion ever as they’re setting up new features to expand on later. It’s not so much a flat content thing as feature rich. After this xpac, all the major features of the game (except maybe on or two sometimes for a real change idk Mounts cough) xpacs later will haz moar. So that should at least make you feel better about map size.

So what you’re saying is we paid more for less now? It’s all well and good if they want to set up for things they’re doing in the future but don’t charge the price of a full game for it.

I don’t have enough faith in Anet at this point to keep any of the promises they make as far as future content goes. I still remember how they first told us we’d get precursor crafting in September of 2012 and then again in the infamous “Second Half of 2013” blog post. And here it is 2 years later and we had to pay to get access to it.

Disagree, the $50 for the expansion is for all the current HoT content and for all the content related to the expansion in the future. Just like the base game of Guild Wars 2 was for everything it released with and for all the content they added prior to the expansion.

Well that is just not true. You have to buy all the living story season 2 episodes if you weren’t around for them when they first came out.

Came out after release and before expansion and also not free. It doesn’t matter that we got it for free at one point in time it only matters that it’s not free now.

So that kind of pokes holes in that little argument.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

fellyn.5083:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Apparently you never played any of the GW1 expansions. Nightfall and Factions were easily as big as, if not bigger than Prophecies.

We do have that standard to compare Anets work to.

Nightfall and Factions were standalone campaigns. Not expansions. They were separate games from Guild Wars.

The only expansion for GW1, was Eye of the North. So if you want to compare HoT to something, compare it to Eye of the North.

For people who purchased Prophecies first, Nightfall and Factions function as xpacs for them, even though they are labeled as standalone. Very few people intentionally keep their Prophecies and Nightfall accounts separate. Therefore, yes, we can compare HOT to Nightfall and Factions.

Legacy of the Void is going to be standalone, but people still consider it as an xpac to sc ii.

Eye of the North has less content than Factions and Nightfall, but its launch price is lower as well, so it was all right.

Next Expansion: Full Underwater maps fighting the Deep Sea Dragon.
Have some land somewhere to include gliding.
Largos new playable race.
New elite specs with new underwater weapons.
Couple of underwater PvP maps.
New guild hall for an underwater arena.
And just for some eye candy to draw people in, there will nautical combat as well, I.e players will be able to make ships to fight stuff.
Done.

MyriadStars.5679:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

fellyn.5083:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Apparently you never played any of the GW1 expansions. Nightfall and Factions were easily as big as, if not bigger than Prophecies.

We do have that standard to compare Anets work to.

Nightfall and Factions were standalone campaigns. Not expansions. They were separate games from Guild Wars.

The only expansion for GW1, was Eye of the North. So if you want to compare HoT to something, compare it to Eye of the North.

For people who purchased Prophecies first, Nightfall and Factions function as xpacs for them, even though they are labeled as standalone. Very few people intentionally keep their Prophecies and Nightfall accounts separate. Therefore, yes, we can compare HOT to Nightfall and Factions.

Legacy of the Void is going to be standalone, but people still consider it as an xpac to sc ii.

Eye of the North has less content than Factions and Nightfall, but its launch price is lower as well, so it was all right.

Doesn’t matter what the players consider them as, they were still standalone games. You weren’t required to have Prophecies to play Factions or Nightfall. So either way you look at it, they are still standalone campaigns.

If you treated them as expansions, that’s your personal opinion. But fact is, they weren’t expansions, they were standalone games that didn’t require the original to play.

HoT requires GW2 to play it, thus making it an expansion. Just like Eye of the North required Prophecies to play it. It was an expansion. If HoT was standalone and didn’t require GW2 to play, then you could compare it to Factions or Nightfall as they are also standalone games. But since it requires GW2, it is considered an expansion. Not standalone.

Draeyon.4392:

Next Expansion: Full Underwater maps fighting the Deep Sea Dragon.
Have some land somewhere to include gliding.
Largos new playable race.
New elite specs with new underwater weapons.
Couple of underwater PvP maps.
New guild hall for an underwater arena.
And just for some eye candy to draw people in, there will nautical combat as well, I.e players will be able to make ships to fight stuff.
Done.

Don’t forget the new armors. Speedos and Bikinis, along with a Scuba Outfit and Deep Sea Diver Outfit in the Gem Store.

Oh and we’ll finally get mounts in the form of Seahorses.

fellyn.5083:

Fenom.9457:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if it’s unfinished or not but it’s blatantly obvious the grind for elites (when the cost was 400 hp) was padding the content and that’s it.

I’ll never buy kitten expansion from Anet again. Not unless it’s the size of at least Nightfall. We got $25-30 worth of content at best.

Now I’m not saying I hate HoTs, I love playing the revenant, it’s breathed some new life back into the game for me but that doesn’t excuse how little content there actually is in the expansion.

h

They said up front for a long time this would be their smallest expansion ever as they’re setting up new features to expand on later. It’s not so much a flat content thing as feature rich. After this xpac, all the major features of the game (except maybe on or two sometimes for a real change idk Mounts cough) xpacs later will haz moar. So that should at least make you feel better about map size.

So what you’re saying is we paid more for less now? It’s all well and good if they want to set up for things they’re doing in the future but don’t charge the price of a full game for it.

I don’t have enough faith in Anet at this point to keep any of the promises they make as far as future content goes. I still remember how they first told us we’d get precursor crafting in September of 2012 and then again in the infamous “Second Half of 2013” blog post. And here it is 2 years later and we had to pay to get access to it.

Please go back to the “Second Half of 2013” and look for where any promises were made. You won’t find any. They didn’t promise one thing in that blog post. You seem to be making stuff up of the top of your head. You’re not helping yourself here.

It will be interesting to see what price tag they put on the LS3 dlc they release. F2P brave new world an all that.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

MyriadStars.5679:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

fellyn.5083:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Apparently you never played any of the GW1 expansions. Nightfall and Factions were easily as big as, if not bigger than Prophecies.

We do have that standard to compare Anets work to.

Nightfall and Factions were standalone campaigns. Not expansions. They were separate games from Guild Wars.

The only expansion for GW1, was Eye of the North. So if you want to compare HoT to something, compare it to Eye of the North.

For people who purchased Prophecies first, Nightfall and Factions function as xpacs for them, even though they are labeled as standalone. Very few people intentionally keep their Prophecies and Nightfall accounts separate. Therefore, yes, we can compare HOT to Nightfall and Factions.

Legacy of the Void is going to be standalone, but people still consider it as an xpac to sc ii.

Eye of the North has less content than Factions and Nightfall, but its launch price is lower as well, so it was all right.

Doesn’t matter what the players consider them as, they were still standalone games. You weren’t required to have Prophecies to play Factions or Nightfall. So either way you look at it, they are still standalone campaigns.

If you treated them as expansions, that’s your personal opinion. But fact is, they weren’t expansions, they were standalone games that didn’t require the original to play.

HoT requires GW2 to play it, thus making it an expansion. Just like Eye of the North required Prophecies to play it. It was an expansion. If HoT was standalone and didn’t require GW2 to play, then you could compare it to Factions or Nightfall as they are also standalone games. But since it requires GW2, it is considered an expansion. Not standalone.

Why does it matter what they are? They were games that Anet made on a scale as big as or bigger than the original and in a much shorter time frame. That’s the point.

You’re basically arguing semantics.

DarcShriek.5829:

fellyn.5083:

Fenom.9457:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if it’s unfinished or not but it’s blatantly obvious the grind for elites (when the cost was 400 hp) was padding the content and that’s it.

I’ll never buy kitten expansion from Anet again. Not unless it’s the size of at least Nightfall. We got $25-30 worth of content at best.

Now I’m not saying I hate HoTs, I love playing the revenant, it’s breathed some new life back into the game for me but that doesn’t excuse how little content there actually is in the expansion.

h

They said up front for a long time this would be their smallest expansion ever as they’re setting up new features to expand on later. It’s not so much a flat content thing as feature rich. After this xpac, all the major features of the game (except maybe on or two sometimes for a real change idk Mounts cough) xpacs later will haz moar. So that should at least make you feel better about map size.

So what you’re saying is we paid more for less now? It’s all well and good if they want to set up for things they’re doing in the future but don’t charge the price of a full game for it.

I don’t have enough faith in Anet at this point to keep any of the promises they make as far as future content goes. I still remember how they first told us we’d get precursor crafting in September of 2012 and then again in the infamous “Second Half of 2013” blog post. And here it is 2 years later and we had to pay to get access to it.

Please go back to the “Second Half of 2013” and look for where any promises were made. You won’t find any. They didn’t promise one thing in that blog post. You seem to be making stuff up of the top of your head. You’re not helping yourself here.

I’m not making anything up and I’m well aware they didn’t actually “promise” anything in that blog post. Oh no. They left themselves room to wiggle out of their commitments.

They did say those were things they were working on in 2012 though.

In any case I wasn’t aware I was trying to help myself and HoTs speaks for itself. The game has never been more broken than it is right now and all the further you need to look is at the Revenant and the constant complaints of crashes and lag in the new areas.

I love the class, it’s quickly become my favorite but it can only use 1 under water weapon and only 2 of it’s 5 skill sets actually work under water. In comparison to every other class in the game that’s just disgraceful at best and extremely lazy at worst.

Don’t get me wrong I’m enjoying GW2 for the time being again but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to it’s fault like some apparently are.

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Why should it not be just as big? After all it cost the same.

Future content is not part of our purchase, people that are free to play get it also. Anyway, updates and free content is commonplace in MMO’s these days, it keeps customers playing and buying store items.

Your argument would have held weight if the expansion cost half the price.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Doesn’t matter what the players consider them as, they were still standalone games. You weren’t required to have Prophecies to play Factions or Nightfall. So either way you look at it, they are still standalone campaigns.

If you treated them as expansions, that’s your personal opinion. But fact is, they weren’t expansions, they were standalone games that didn’t require the original to play.

HoT requires GW2 to play it, thus making it an expansion. Just like Eye of the North required Prophecies to play it. It was an expansion. If HoT was standalone and didn’t require GW2 to play, then you could compare it to Factions or Nightfall as they are also standalone games. But since it requires GW2, it is considered an expansion. Not standalone.

Sounds like a game of semantics. So Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall are all campaigns as they can be played separately but they can also interface with each other so that you can port a character between Campaigns, just like an Expansion.

Now that the distinction has been made, what exactly is the argument? That Heart of Thorns could have had more content if Anet treated it more like a Campaign than an Expansion. That if players want more then we should be asking for Campaigns that can also act like Expansions rather than just Expansions?

Of course not, because an Expansion or a Campaign by itself doesn’t mean anything more than just a slightly different distribution model. They can be as big or as small as the scope of development allows.

The real question should be what do we want from future content? Do we want new systems that set the stage for future stuff or do we want systems to stay relatively the same but just more lore and more areas included with each expansion. It’s clear that HoT heavily invested development into building the internal architecture for the future but does that really mean that the next Expansion will instead swing the other way and deliver double, maybe triple the lore/new regions that HoT did? Is there even a consensus of what the community wants from an expansion?

Maybe HoT got the balance wrong? Maybe they could have delayed a system or two for a future expansion while shifting those resources to more regions or more lore? Or Maybe LS3 will complete HoT by expanding the map further like LS2 did, hope it comes within 6 months if that is the case.

I worry what the OP has said is true. I really haven’t played that much yet, so I’m a bit reserved in my comments, but Liewec made the most clear statement here.

When I bought Burning Crusade there was a HUGE amount of content that came with it. 7 new maps, a ton of attention to deal with the lore for every single quest, a huge amount of armors, weapons, abilities, and talents. On top of all that each zone on the map had at least one dungeon and it’s gear drops. You could actually reliably farm different creatures and things too. I remember my Mage was an engineer. I spent so much time saving up the gold for my Hula-dancer for the dashboard of my silly Gnomish flying machine. After that expansion WoW took a hard nose-dive and never recovered, but in each expansion there really was a huge content dump in both explorable open world content and in new armors. This… I got Leyline armor tonight from the Dragon’s Stand. Yay? We went from Steel to Coral… Then when I went to buy from the merchant after it was some mono-chrome (but chrome) grey weapons.

The Exalted City is the same. Big open space with nothing going on. The one glaring problem with HoT is that most of the maps are meant for HUGE events. In a few months maybe people will be really good at them and the crashes will stop… but in a few months maybe people will be utterly fed up with the grind to find out if there’s anything at the end of all this grind.. and if there isn’t?

Does the amount of content in HoT seem a bit limited?

I would say yes, but with a few notes.

Only four zones? Yes, and no. They are larger and more complex than the original, so in a sense amount to ~8 zones from Tyria.
But even then, what would adding 20 zones do? Look at the current spread of zones in Tyria and they population density. Notice anything?
Adding more zones does not make the quality of the content better, it just repeats more of the same Dynamic events and Hearts (how many variations of ‘defend village’ can you make?). So 4 zones seems lackluster, it actually can be an improvement because they make the content that is there better, because more people will use it.
Exploring is nice, but after you done it once the novelty is gone and you are just repeating the same empty content. yeeuh…

Elite specs locked behind grind.
I can see that as an issue, and the the 400point limit was daunting for me on my alts. They brought it down after live testing with a disgrunted player base. 250 is still high, but a lot more manageable with alts. My initial frustration has been taken away by this.

Lack of armour skins
Yes, something that is bugging me. GW2 had quite a lot, but I never really liked them much. Then again, I was spoiled by the wonderfull GW1 armours on my Mesmer.
Still, I was hoping to have seen more than just a few new skins.
On this it seems A-net simply ran out of time before launch and had to focus on more important stuff (like a playable game etc). Given the history of adding armours to the game, I’m confident A-Net will release more in the coming months.

Story.
Well, I have only just started Act 2, but it does seem that the story is rather short (somewhat longer than LW2). THen again, the original Zaithan story is also rather long (meant to pace the leveling, I know), so a bit shorter is fine.
Its more the quality that concerns me, and I hope it can create more depth or hint towards side stories to explore.

All in all, HoT is a bit incomplete. However, as A-net has done over the last couple of years, adding content in the coming months will add to the overall quality of the game.
I’m taking my time exploring and leveling characters, so I’m happy where it is at right now.

fellyn.5083:

DarcShriek.5829:

fellyn.5083:

Fenom.9457:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t know if it’s unfinished or not but it’s blatantly obvious the grind for elites (when the cost was 400 hp) was padding the content and that’s it.

I’ll never buy kitten expansion from Anet again. Not unless it’s the size of at least Nightfall. We got $25-30 worth of content at best.

Now I’m not saying I hate HoTs, I love playing the revenant, it’s breathed some new life back into the game for me but that doesn’t excuse how little content there actually is in the expansion.

h

They said up front for a long time this would be their smallest expansion ever as they’re setting up new features to expand on later. It’s not so much a flat content thing as feature rich. After this xpac, all the major features of the game (except maybe on or two sometimes for a real change idk Mounts cough) xpacs later will haz moar. So that should at least make you feel better about map size.

So what you’re saying is we paid more for less now? It’s all well and good if they want to set up for things they’re doing in the future but don’t charge the price of a full game for it.

I don’t have enough faith in Anet at this point to keep any of the promises they make as far as future content goes. I still remember how they first told us we’d get precursor crafting in September of 2012 and then again in the infamous “Second Half of 2013” blog post. And here it is 2 years later and we had to pay to get access to it.

Please go back to the “Second Half of 2013” and look for where any promises were made. You won’t find any. They didn’t promise one thing in that blog post. You seem to be making stuff up of the top of your head. You’re not helping yourself here.

I’m not making anything up and I’m well aware they didn’t actually “promise” anything in that blog post. Oh no. They left themselves room to wiggle out of their commitments.

They did say those were things they were working on in 2012 though.

In any case I wasn’t aware I was trying to help myself and HoTs speaks for itself. The game has never been more broken than it is right now and all the further you need to look is at the Revenant and the constant complaints of crashes and lag in the new areas.

I love the class, it’s quickly become my favorite but it can only use 1 under water weapon and only 2 of it’s 5 skill sets actually work under water. In comparison to every other class in the game that’s just disgraceful at best and extremely lazy at worst.

Don’t get me wrong I’m enjoying GW2 for the time being again but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to it’s fault like some apparently are.

Yes things go wrong in mmo releases.. As to be expected. It was a massive update with a ton of content and it takes time for the smoke to settle. If you never have played an mmo before, this basically happens on release of almost all expansions for any game ever. In fact minus a little bit of crashing, this has been one of the smoothest bug free releases I have ever seen so I cannot complain. class balance may be a bit off right now but after the two week mark and the implementation of patching it slowly repairs.

VaLee.5102:

Not sure about unfinished, but you can clearly tell it was rushed at the end to meet the deadline. There are plenty of hints to suggest that.

^This

The majority of complaint seems to be from pre-purchase, which is the WORST way to buy a game anyway. You have pretty much invalidated the right to complain through not allowing the opportunity to make an informed decision.

The end feels rushed, true, the last fight was disappointing, not mechanic-wise but where’s the epicness? It’s a kittening elder dragon!

Anyway, aside from this: the maps are huge, complex constructs. Well crafted; never saw something in any other MMO. So, that’s clearly not rushed… though I felt, 4 maps is on the short side. Hope there’s more to come.

Factions and Nightfall both were a lot shorter than the original campaign. Especially Factions. Normally you finished the story of Factions within 1 week, same with Nightfall. It took me weeks though to finish Guild Wars Prophecies.

The only expansion – Eye of the North – has been finished within 24 hours of release. Large parts of the dungeons were copy paste from other dungeons, that was cheap.

Also: GW1 was very simply built (not the skill sytem, the maps, quests etc.). GW2 is far more complex and the maps can’t compare.

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game?

When the price is comparable it’s a reasonable expectation I’d suggest.

So when will we see Living Story 3? January 2015? June? October? How long do we wait to receive the remainder of the game I bought several months ago?

People bringing up the $15 a month are ridiculous. With the amount of skins and items on available on the gem store, the ONLY way to get these cool new armors and “content” is to spend money on gems every month….

Considering the base code is broken to the point that it causes non-stop OOM crashes to a huge part of the player base unless they play at potato graphic quality alongside all the other issues we are seeing I would definitely say it is incomplete.

The kicker is they have known about the OOM issue since launch. I guess development time to fix real game issues falls by the wayside when it could be spent developing multi colored wings that make millions.

Taltevus.3289:

It’s so incredibly obvious:
1.)The obvious, obvious intentional grind in everything (buying more time to rush that missed content)

2.) Elite specs becoming the carrot at the end of the stick.
Obviously was not the original idea and ultimately blemished HoT release.

3.)Partial parts of…Class Armor: epaulets of the Chronomancer…wheres the rest?
3b.) I am not buying the lack of armors introduced.

4.)The further you go down heart of thorns the more it’s like you see where the work slowly started to wane. There are entire sections of maps; Strictly MobTown USA. For what?

5.)Verdant brink obviously being the most complete.

6.)480potatoes cut-scenes.

(I really did buy kitten.00 Mesmer.)

If it’s not “unfinished” then I feel comfortable Gw2 is about to get real paywall friendly over the next year. If ArenaNet just made sensible content at this point players would likely support it freely. Gw2 doesn’t really feel like an mmorpg anymore…it’s more like an arcade. I don’t mind buying gems what I mind is dodgy content. Ok You’ve got combat and voice-acting down. GREAT but there is still so much more to an mmo.

The reason my attitude seems hostile and dismissive?

I see the pay wall arising.
I see F.2.P on the way.
I see exploiting and grinding.
I see those bad times today.

So don’t log in tonight
It’s bound to charge or grind
There’s a paywall on the rise.

-Rasputina

Why would Rasputina sign a Creedence Clearwater Revival Cover? Did you at least know its a Creedence Clearwater Revival song, right?

Liewec.2896:

Phy.2913:

Liewec.2896:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO.

funny but when i bought Burning Crusade i got a ton of new armours as random world drops, several new instances, all with new armour skins and weapon skins and a massive new continent. in total there were probably around 30 new armour sets, 5 instances and 3 raids on release, oh and 2 new races.

THAT is what i expect from a £30 expansion.

And 15$ a month. Not to mention the 2 games are very different models.

the subscription fee is irrelevant, i’m talking about the initial release, not the content added over time.
initial release had tons of new armour skins, several dungeons and a massive new continent.
that is what you should expect from an expansion with a premium pricetag.

And how many months went buy leading up to that expansion without a single drop of content? How many months did you drop down 15 over and over and over? You aren’t one of those morons that think “Hur Dur 15 dollar for server upkeep Hur Dur” are you?

Draeyon.4392:

Next Expansion: Full Underwater maps fighting the Deep Sea Dragon.
Have some land somewhere to include gliding.
Largos new playable race.
New elite specs with new underwater weapons.
Couple of underwater PvP maps.
New guild hall for an underwater arena.
And just for some eye candy to draw people in, there will nautical combat as well, I.e players will be able to make ships to fight stuff.
Done.

I don’t like underwater combat….at…all….

But I would like to see some areas that resemble new WvW borderland maps. This maps is awesome, and I like desert

Wryscher.1432:

It will be interesting to see what price tag they put on the LS3 dlc they release. F2P brave new world an all that.

LS3 won’t be for free players, it requires HoT. So base game being free is irrelevant to LS3.

fellyn.5083:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

MyriadStars.5679:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

fellyn.5083:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Apparently you never played any of the GW1 expansions. Nightfall and Factions were easily as big as, if not bigger than Prophecies.

We do have that standard to compare Anets work to.

Nightfall and Factions were standalone campaigns. Not expansions. They were separate games from Guild Wars.

The only expansion for GW1, was Eye of the North. So if you want to compare HoT to something, compare it to Eye of the North.

For people who purchased Prophecies first, Nightfall and Factions function as xpacs for them, even though they are labeled as standalone. Very few people intentionally keep their Prophecies and Nightfall accounts separate. Therefore, yes, we can compare HOT to Nightfall and Factions.

Legacy of the Void is going to be standalone, but people still consider it as an xpac to sc ii.

Eye of the North has less content than Factions and Nightfall, but its launch price is lower as well, so it was all right.

Doesn’t matter what the players consider them as, they were still standalone games. You weren’t required to have Prophecies to play Factions or Nightfall. So either way you look at it, they are still standalone campaigns.

If you treated them as expansions, that’s your personal opinion. But fact is, they weren’t expansions, they were standalone games that didn’t require the original to play.

HoT requires GW2 to play it, thus making it an expansion. Just like Eye of the North required Prophecies to play it. It was an expansion. If HoT was standalone and didn’t require GW2 to play, then you could compare it to Factions or Nightfall as they are also standalone games. But since it requires GW2, it is considered an expansion. Not standalone.

Why does it matter what they are? They were games that Anet made on a scale as big as or bigger than the original and in a much shorter time frame. That’s the point.

You’re basically arguing semantics.

They also didn’t keep on adding in more content to each of those games like they are with GW2. So with Guild Wars 1, you paid $50 for what ever came in the box, and that was it (with the exception of Sorrows Furnace that was added to Prophecies), where as with HoT and Base game you paid $50 each for what there is and for all the extra content they added later on. You are looking at 2 very different methods going on here and cannot be compared.

Aedelric.1287:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Why should it not be just as big? After all it cost the same.

Future content is not part of our purchase, people that are free to play get it also. Anyway, updates and free content is commonplace in MMO’s these days, it keeps customers playing and buying store items.

Your argument would have held weight if the expansion cost half the price.

Free to play will not get any content updates, all content updates going forward require HoT to play. And yes, future content is part of our purchase.

I honestly and truly think the people dissatisfied with the amount of content in HoT haven’t actually played HoT much, or aren’t in a guild.

It’s up to you whether you think it’s fair or not, but an absurd amount of work was put in to the guild hall systems, and they went to the trouble of releasing with two entire guild halls.

Not only that, and absurd amount of time was put in to the HoT event chains. Nealy every single chain has one or more unique mechanics, and all of those chains are easily 10-30 minutes long, fully voiced, with coherant internal storylines.

Also, an entirely new PvP mode and WvW map with a lot of new mechanisms there.

The people upset about the amount of content in HoT are explicitly upset because they don’t actually care about at least a third of thecontent released, or are willfully ignorant of the fact that HoT is by-design the purchase price of a “season pass” for all LS, and raid content between now and the next expansion (for no monthly fee)

It’s immaterial to complain about it in comparison to something like nightfall. It is far more expensive and work intensive to design, program, and develop something of the visual and technical caliber of HoT compared to Nightfall. I do 3d work for a living. The difference in time required to pop out a low poly model versus a high poly model with god looking normal and specular maps, custom shaers, etc. is extreme. The visual fidelity in GW2 is quite frankly insane compared to its peers in the MMO space, and honestly requires a lot of effort, not to mention the massive amount of voice work (even for non-story elements and normal events there is player character voicework) and specialized programming challenges for the numerous adventures.

Funny cause I feel like I’ve NEVER paid for a “complete” MMORPG.

The nature of MMO’s is that they are constantly evolving and adding content. If you feel like HoT is “unfinished” you need to reevaluate your expectations and look around at the industry.

PopeUrban.2578:

Also, an entirely new PvP mode and WvW map with a lot of new mechanisms there.

Not sure why you’d use the WvW desert borderlands in your argument. Yeah, it’s “new” content, but no one is using it, so those of us that want to really can’t. We’re having trouble adding this to the line-up and it’s through no fault of our own. A better name for them is “deserted borderlands.”

Also, more people would use the guild content if it was more accessible to smaller guilds. Yeah, we can argue ad nauseum about how everyone should be in a 500-member guild or screw you, but the point is, not all the content from HoT is something everyone can necessarily do equally, which makes what is there seem even smaller.

Celtic Lady.3729:

PopeUrban.2578:

Also, an entirely new PvP mode and WvW map with a lot of new mechanisms there.

Not sure why you’d use the WvW desert borderlands in your argument. Yeah, it’s “new” content, but no one is using it, so those of us that want to really can’t. We’re having trouble adding this to the line-up and it’s through no fault of our own. A better name for them is “deserted borderlands.”

Also, more people would use the guild content if it was more accessible to smaller guilds. Yeah, we can argue ad nauseum about how everyone should be in a 500-member guild or screw you, but the point is, not all the content from HoT is something everyone can necessarily do equally, which makes what is there seem even smaller.

Desert borderlands being empty isn’t a lack of content from a design end. It’s a lack of content from a completely understandable player interest end. I don’t work for anet so I obviously don’t have the exact metrics, but I’d wager “deserted bordelands” syndrome stems mostly from people wanting to try out the pve and the need to get some guild upgrades from said content to level their scribes and fill out those war room upgrades.

The design of it all was built for longevity though, around an economic model that assumes functioning rarity of items beyond the current period of economic adjustment. Complaining desert borderlands are empty is kinda like complaining that there aren’t any SW chest farm maps. It’s a temporary inconvenience that’s a result of an overall positive long term design.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d wager “deserted bordelands” syndrome stems mostly from people wanting to try out the pve and the need to get some guild upgrades from said content to level their scribes and fill out those war room upgrades.

Well, that’s optimistic. Maybe long term you’ll be right. But the WvW people aren’t saying they’re waiting for upgrades in order to play these maps. They’re saying they don’t like the maps at all and therefore are not playing them. If this is true for the majority of them, then it isn’t gonna get better with time.

Celtic Lady.3729:

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d wager “deserted bordelands” syndrome stems mostly from people wanting to try out the pve and the need to get some guild upgrades from said content to level their scribes and fill out those war room upgrades.

Well, that’s optimistic. Maybe long term you’ll be right. But the WvW people aren’t saying they’re waiting for upgrades in order to play these maps. They’re saying they don’t like the maps at all and therefore are not playing them. If this is true for the majority of them, then it isn’t gonna get better with time.

Sure, and I can’t speak for them. Personally I’m of the opinion the current WvW crowd doesn’t like the maps becuase they’re used to the problematic super-blob model of WvW Anet specifically set out to break with these maps.

It’s similar to how the design of all the new PvE maps were built specifically with mechanisms to break up giant player zergs that trivialized content or de-emphasized individual player effort or skill.

It’s a valid question. I found the old borderlands poorly designed and generally dull PvDoor run-in-circles affairs and the mechanics and geography of the new borderlands actually fun and tactical.

I am obviously not representitive of the core WvW community

The question is, is anet more interested in persuing their stated goal of fixing wvw and attracting people like me, or more interested in catering to the people who just want more of the same?

It goes back to something like Skyhammer. I like skyhammer. I think it’s an interesting and unique map with an interesting gameplay element. Anet thought so too. That’s why they made it. However, their PvP community really hated skyhammer. So now, no skyhammer in rotation.

It still remains to be seen if the quiet in WvW is due to genuine disinterest, or just plain pve tourism. I think only anet has the tools to really gauge that by tracking player activity metrics, as you and I both know that forums are an unreliable source of data in regards to what the majority of a player population is doing/playing.

HOT really was extraordinarily rushed. Very little play hours, a very vague story, and a kitten load of questions remain unanswered. Arenanet, stop rushing things to support the demands of brats. This game could have been so much more and had so much more potential.

1. Caithe is just totally allowed to kill almost of my soldiers and kills two firstborn. Doesn’t face repercussions.
2. I get the egg back, I totally don’t want to leave it. Okay you can have it. I don’t care anymore why the Mordy wanted it. Doesn’t talk about it or inquire about it later.
3. Goes to Rata Novus looking for Dragon research. Finds vague statements saying that dragons have a weakness. Yay, they have a weakness but we are kittening clueless to what it is.
4. After rescuing Logan and Zojja, oh look it’s Trahearne dangling there. Let’s get him.
5. Pursues Trahearne through a very lightly guarded location despite Mordy knowing we are there.
6. Finds Trahearne and finds out he is part of Mordremoth. Oh, look the weakness is conveniently his mind let’s attack it. Trahearne is able to resist Mordy’s control and allowed us inside his head.
7. Yay, the dragon is dead. No further story updates. Rytlock doesn’t even explain his experiences in the mists.

Flesh this kitten out.

blackdeth.3956:

Liewec.2896:

Phy.2913:

Liewec.2896:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO.

funny but when i bought Burning Crusade i got a ton of new armours as random world drops, several new instances, all with new armour skins and weapon skins and a massive new continent. in total there were probably around 30 new armour sets, 5 instances and 3 raids on release, oh and 2 new races.

THAT is what i expect from a £30 expansion.

And 15$ a month. Not to mention the 2 games are very different models.

the subscription fee is irrelevant, i’m talking about the initial release, not the content added over time.
initial release had tons of new armour skins, several dungeons and a massive new continent.
that is what you should expect from an expansion with a premium pricetag.

And how many months went buy leading up to that expansion without a single drop of content? How many months did you drop down 15 over and over and over? You aren’t one of those morons that think “Hur Dur 15 dollar for server upkeep Hur Dur” are you?

What??? http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patches

I dont even know wtf are you talking about??? WoW had content added like every expansion in between you never payed just for the expansion and waited for 2 year for another expansion to get new content. And btw in WoW you dont have to go to the itemshop to get the “cool stuff” you can get the cool stuff ingame you know like it should be

Agares.6073:

And btw in WoW you dont have to go to the itemshop to get the “cool stuff” you can get the cool stuff ingame you know like it should be

I am not a fan of the subscription business model for games but this point is one that is all too often overlooked.

If you want most of what is offered in GW2, on a par with what you get included for the price of a monthly sub in a game like WoW, you are likely to end up paying more than $15 per month.

Taltevus.3289:

It’s so incredibly obvious:
1.)The obvious, obvious intentional grind in everything (buying more time to rush that missed content)

2.) Elite specs becoming the carrot at the end of the stick.
Obviously was not the original idea and ultimately blemished HoT release.

3.)Partial parts of…Class Armor: epaulets of the Chronomancer…wheres the rest?
3b.) I am not buying the lack of armors introduced.

4.)The further you go down heart of thorns the more it’s like you see where the work slowly started to wane. There are entire sections of maps; Strictly MobTown USA. For what?

5.)Verdant brink obviously being the most complete.

6.)480potatoes cut-scenes.

7.) One of the expansion’s biggest selling features was new Legendary weapons. Then we were told we’d only be getting three new Legendary weapons at release. Then we were told we’d be getting those three new Legendary weapons sometime after release. But hey, a new month means a new, full set of weapon skins in the cash shop.

Pandabro.8743:

Funny cause I feel like I’ve NEVER paid for a “complete” MMORPG.

The nature of MMO’s is that they are constantly evolving and adding content. If you feel like HoT is “unfinished” you need to reevaluate your expectations and look around at the industry.

Why didn’t Anet release HOT back in March then? HOT was already in alpha at that time.

MyriadStars.5679:

Pandabro.8743:

Funny cause I feel like I’ve NEVER paid for a “complete” MMORPG.

The nature of MMO’s is that they are constantly evolving and adding content. If you feel like HoT is “unfinished” you need to reevaluate your expectations and look around at the industry.

Why didn’t Anet release HOT back in March then? HOT was already in alpha at that time.

because software still needs to go through Alpha and Beta testing before being released. Releasing software without doing any testing is really bad idea.

eisberg.2379:

MyriadStars.5679:

Pandabro.8743:

Funny cause I feel like I’ve NEVER paid for a “complete” MMORPG.

The nature of MMO’s is that they are constantly evolving and adding content. If you feel like HoT is “unfinished” you need to reevaluate your expectations and look around at the industry.

Why didn’t Anet release HOT back in March then? HOT was already in alpha at that time.

because software still needs to go through Alpha and Beta testing before being released. Releasing software without doing any testing is really bad idea.

Exactly. There should have been a more thorough beta testing stage.

eisberg.2379:

fellyn.5083:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

MyriadStars.5679:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

fellyn.5083:

Phy.2913:

People want an xpac to be as big as the original game? That’s not how it works, especially in an MMO. Part of the price is future content.

Apparently you never played any of the GW1 expansions. Nightfall and Factions were easily as big as, if not bigger than Prophecies.

We do have that standard to compare Anets work to.

Nightfall and Factions were standalone campaigns. Not expansions. They were separate games from Guild Wars.

The only expansion for GW1, was Eye of the North. So if you want to compare HoT to something, compare it to Eye of the North.

For people who purchased Prophecies first, Nightfall and Factions function as xpacs for them, even though they are labeled as standalone. Very few people intentionally keep their Prophecies and Nightfall accounts separate. Therefore, yes, we can compare HOT to Nightfall and Factions.

Legacy of the Void is going to be standalone, but people still consider it as an xpac to sc ii.

Eye of the North has less content than Factions and Nightfall, but its launch price is lower as well, so it was all right.

Doesn’t matter what the players consider them as, they were still standalone games. You weren’t required to have Prophecies to play Factions or Nightfall. So either way you look at it, they are still standalone campaigns.

If you treated them as expansions, that’s your personal opinion. But fact is, they weren’t expansions, they were standalone games that didn’t require the original to play.

HoT requires GW2 to play it, thus making it an expansion. Just like Eye of the North required Prophecies to play it. It was an expansion. If HoT was standalone and didn’t require GW2 to play, then you could compare it to Factions or Nightfall as they are also standalone games. But since it requires GW2, it is considered an expansion. Not standalone.

Why does it matter what they are? They were games that Anet made on a scale as big as or bigger than the original and in a much shorter time frame. That’s the point.

You’re basically arguing semantics.

They also didn’t keep on adding in more content to each of those games like they are with GW2. So with Guild Wars 1, you paid $50 for what ever came in the box, and that was it (with the exception of Sorrows Furnace that was added to Prophecies), where as with HoT and Base game you paid $50 each for what there is and for all the extra content they added later on. You are looking at 2 very different methods going on here and cannot be compared.

They did so. I can think of quite a few updates for GW1 that added new features and content to the games.

So how are you guys enjoying raids?

Owait

MyriadStars.5679:

eisberg.2379:

MyriadStars.5679:

Pandabro.8743:

Funny cause I feel like I’ve NEVER paid for a “complete” MMORPG.

The nature of MMO’s is that they are constantly evolving and adding content. If you feel like HoT is “unfinished” you need to reevaluate your expectations and look around at the industry.

Why didn’t Anet release HOT back in March then? HOT was already in alpha at that time.

because software still needs to go through Alpha and Beta testing before being released. Releasing software without doing any testing is really bad idea.

Exactly. There should have been a more thorough beta testing stage.

No amount of reasonable testing is going to catch everything with software, nobody has the money to do something like that and have a product that can sell at the right price. There isn’t anything that I can see that warrants it needing to test even longer, seems like vast majority of problems do not happen to everyone which means more then likely means it didn’t happen during testing.

I thought Auric Basin is more beautiful than Verdant brink, but to each their own.