Hearts and Minds ; End Boss Fight *spoilers*

Hearts and Minds ; End Boss Fight *spoilers*

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Posted by: Ansilon.6230

Ansilon.6230

Hey guys o/

I just wanted to vent a few frustrations with the end boss fight. Before I get started I just wanted to say that I absolutely LOVE the story line. If you have a Sylvari, I’d highly, highly recommend that you open the story instance yourself, as there are a few flavorful effects put into the end fight

However, I’m so disappointed in the death mechanic that it really left a bitter taste in my mouth. I understand the end fight it supposed to be challenging, BUT why lock off the players who died?

For those who are unaware, upon dying, you are teleported to this prison of sorts, where you must wait it out and have the remainder of your party “carry” you, per say.

It really is silly <.< not only that, but you’re leaving people out who (on their first Hearts and Minds boss fight) don’t get to hop back in and fight.
I’d kindly make the suggestion to Arena Net that they possibly remove the “put in ley line prison after death” and allow us to be rezzed during the fight. It looks so epic, and like such great content. But I don’t get to actually experience it.

(Yes I am in the ley-line prison now watching the 1 party member who survived)

Imperial Outlaws [IO] ; Salad
AnsiĆ­(e) , Mesmer | Guardian | Thief

(edited by Ansilon.6230)

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Posted by: Doghouse.1562

Doghouse.1562

Utterly agreed.

The final episode is lousy when it comes to handling player deaths. I play weekly with the same group of three other friends, and the simple fact is that we’re not likely to complete the HoT PS in its current form.

Before the boss, there are multiple places where you can fall or be knocked back to your death, ending up just watching the (boring) scenery around you while the rest of the party progress the story that YOU aren’t going to get to see – and the only way to get back into the fight seems to be for the party to wipe. Way too harsh in as extended and important an episode as the final one of the PS.

And the “prison” mechanism of the final fight – again, way too harsh considering how easy it is (especially on your first encounter with the boss) to get killed by not getting into the air in time. And don’t bother wiping to get imprisoned party members back, because you’ll simply go straight back to the start of the fight, and have to start again.

Of our four players, I’d say that two are never going to be the greatest MMO players in the world (and I’ve lost track of the number of times that one of them in particular has taken a wrong turn or died “embarrassingly”) – but then, they’re “causal” players, the weekly sessions are pretty much the only time they play GW2, and we have fun playing and progressing together. The other two of us are more regular players; we have our own strengths and weaknesses, like anyone, but we’re probably good enough to be classified at least as “average”. And we’ve progressed as a group through the HoT PS to the final episode, and enjoyed doing so. But it’s plain to me that we’re not, as a group, going to complete it in its current form, because the mechanism for getting into the air in the “electrification” stages is simply too hit and miss, and the penalty for failing is way too high and too unfair – and I know my friends well enough to also know that, as a group, we’re simply not going to keep grinding away at the episode in hopes that, eventually, we’ll actually fluke out and manage to keep one of us alive long enough to actually finish Mordremoth.

The simple fact is that I hoped ANet had learned from the first PS, but they haven’t. Just like the original PS final episode, the HoT final episode is mistuned. Yes, it’s the final episode of the PS, so it needs to feel “special”. But it seems ANet designers think that “special” and “hard” are synonyms, and nothing could be farther from the truth – this is not a fractal or a dungeon, only meant for people to run through repeatedly with a set of strangers until they know its detail inside-out – it’s the climax of our PS, and precisely because it’s the final episode of our journeys, we all deserve the reward of being actually able to complete it for ourselves – which includes solo if we choose – and, especially, without the indignity of having to feel that we were simply carried though on the backs of others, because we weren’t up to the challenge. Nothing wrong with having a “hard” mode with bigger rewards – but give us PS content that we can actually complete and enjoy, please. And remove the walls of that stupid prison.

(edited by Doghouse.1562)

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

Yeah, the penalty box is really dumb. It should be restricted to Extreme Mode, where it at least sort of makes sense.

It’s really annoying to die because of something dumb (almost always gliding phase related, because they did not test that well at all) and then have to do the whole thing over again.

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Posted by: Farming Flats.5370

Farming Flats.5370

hah …i will never play that part with pugs again :

Started a Hearts and Minds story with 3 players … they both died and they respawned in the penalty box , i was the only one left and finished the fight alone .. so Mordy was at my feets and defeated and i couldn’t do the finisher move because the one who could do it was also the player who started the instance and he was in the penalty box and the kitten idiot was AFK … thats right AFK .. he never returned after 20 minutes of waiting … last resort was to kick him and see if it was possible to hold the instance .. but nop … we lost everything.

Fun.

(edited by Farming Flats.5370)

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Posted by: Ambika.6257

Ambika.6257

I loved when they finally made the last leg of the core personal story to be able to be soloed. I didn’t want to have to find a group for every single character I made to get through that.

But here we are again. Technically the thing can be solo’d. I did most of it without issue until it came time for the gliding wave and lo and behold it didn’t work. I did it again after watching a video to see where they should be. Nothing. One more time after checking the video again and pressing every button known to man. Nothing. So I die and end up in the penalty box every time. There’s no option to immediately start over, I just sit there…… waiting. For what??? Nobody else is going to kill the dude! That’s poor design!

Then people come in and say “do it in a group, you may have to do it several times, but it can be done!” Sure, it can be done, but it shouldn’t have to be done around poor/broken mechanics with fingers and toes crossed!

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Posted by: AnClar.1304

AnClar.1304

I totally agree that the mechanics of this mish are not great…especially when it comes to the gliding sections. That said, I guess I got extremely lucky…I managed to finish the chapter solo on my main…a staff tempest. But only after I failed it at least ten times. So it can be done…it’s just not easy…Anet really needs to fix the gliding vents to be more more reliable.

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Posted by: Moonyeti.3296

Moonyeti.3296

I must have gotten very lucky with the HoT story missions, as I soloed them all on the 1st try. This is NOT me humblebragging- I fully admit that I am a mediocre player at best most of the time. I just didn’t even realize this was causing so much frustration with so many people. Looks like I somehow avoided all the gliding bugs, etc.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

Yeah, I hated this fight. I only did the HoT story once all the way through on my main, and it’s instances like this that have kept me from doing it on all my alts. I tried playing it with my friends, but the design is so unfriendly to groups that it doesn’t really help at all.

By comparison, I did the Core Tyria story on 10 alts all the way through and didn’t get really frustrated once. It was shocking and disappointing how much less I enjoyed the story aspect of HoT than I did the previous one. I couldn’t even believe it was the same game…

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Posted by: Redenaz.8631

Redenaz.8631

Just taking this suggestion at face value: If everyone can rejoin the fight, instead of being put in the waiting cell, does that make it possible to simply throw bodies at him until he dies? Is that what people want?

If not, is there a middle ground between that and how it currently works? Maybe checkpoints during the boss fight?

~The Storyteller – Elementalist – Jade Quarry~

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Posted by: RoseofGilead.8907

RoseofGilead.8907

Just taking this suggestion at face value: If everyone can rejoin the fight, instead of being put in the waiting cell, does that make it possible to simply throw bodies at him until he dies? Is that what people want?

If not, is there a middle ground between that and how it currently works? Maybe checkpoints during the boss fight?

Checkpoints would be nice, but at the same time, I don’t think that’s TOO necessary. Honestly, I’d be fine with staying dead and not being ported to the “penalty box”. Just move our bodies to the center of the area (or anywhere that won’t interfere with any interactions needed for the fight). That way we’d at least have the chance to be rezzed a tiny bit, here and there, if we’re in there with a party, and we’d actually be able to help again if we managed to get fully revived. And then maybe add a mechanic similar to the Molten Boss where everyone who is dead or downed at a phase change (or at least once, at 50%) gets revived.

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

That fight is quite easy, I’ve done it quite a few times solo, and with pug groups. I agree the penalty box is a pain, and should not be there for normal mode.

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Posted by: Ambika.6257

Ambika.6257

That fight is quite easy, I’ve done it quite a few times solo, and with pug groups. I agree the penalty box is a pain, and should not be there for normal mode.

Nobody is saying the boss is hard. We’re all just saying the prison is a terrible idea and the gliding doesn’t work in many instances. A check point and the ability to rez in groups makes more sense. In my case when soloing I want it to automatically give me the option to go to a checkpoint or exit, not sit in a prison that I have to map out of.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

From a story perspective, when you’re defeated by Mordemoth, your mind is corrupted, but instead you’re pulled from the dream. If anything, defeated players should become corrupted NPCs, which upon defeat, allows them to rally. Grouping for solo content is however the equivalent of an easy mode, so they might as well just teleport dead players to a safe spot and allow them to be revived.

If everyone can rejoin the fight, instead of being put in the waiting cell, does that make it possible to simply throw bodies at him until he dies? Is that what people want?

That’s what happened during season 2. The complaint back then was that the bosses were boring and tedious fights of dying over and over to win. Allowing death rushing is probably better because it allows those players to at least finish their story.

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Posted by: Dante.1508

Dante.1508

Just taking this suggestion at face value: If everyone can rejoin the fight, instead of being put in the waiting cell, does that make it possible to simply throw bodies at him until he dies? Is that what people want?

If not, is there a middle ground between that and how it currently works? Maybe checkpoints during the boss fight?

What i want is to complete it alone, instead of having to wait days or weeks waiting on my guild to decide to help me..

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Posted by: Batelle.1680

Batelle.1680

What i want is to complete it alone, instead of having to wait days or weeks waiting on my guild to decide to help me..

It’s absolutely soloable, tho? I’m not a very good player, but aside from tedium, the only trouble I had was with one of the bosses before the last one. I adjusted my build a little and was able to hang through until the end. The only truly tricky part is the gliding section, but you can poke around the internet for a few minutes to figure out what to do.

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Posted by: Redenaz.8631

Redenaz.8631

Just taking this suggestion at face value: If everyone can rejoin the fight, instead of being put in the waiting cell, does that make it possible to simply throw bodies at him until he dies? Is that what people want?

If not, is there a middle ground between that and how it currently works? Maybe checkpoints during the boss fight?

What i want is to complete it alone, instead of having to wait days or weeks waiting on my guild to decide to help me..

Then just do it. It can be a tough fight solo, but it’s not designed to require a party.

~The Storyteller – Elementalist – Jade Quarry~

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Posted by: Dyfinz.2348

Dyfinz.2348

I just played this portion of the story today with one other party member, and we both needed the story. I was killed during the gliding portion and put in the prison. My first experience of this PS was ruined because I did not get to experience it. Sure, I can go back and replay it, but the magic of that first experience is gone, and ruined. Now, begrudgingly I may have to consider playing through the lengthy chapter alone if I want to see the fight first hand. Boo.
The story was enjoyable, this final boss fight is lame.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

While I can do this fight pretty much at will now, I disliked the penalty box idea immensely. The fight in general left a lot to be desired At very least it needs more checkpoints and the penalty box should have been a temporary thing, not standing there waiting for the rest of the fight.

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Posted by: dalendria.3762

dalendria.3762

I read this thread and decided to try the fight again. It was the last HOT story I had to finish on my Sylvari alt. Things were so bad when I first tried it that I just gave up. BTW, I did finish it on my Human main about 2 weeks after HOT launched. That experience was bad as well due to the bugs and fight design.

So, first, the bugs I had experienced were fixed. Second, this is still a horrible fight. I respect that the dev team tried to fix it but it still is just not fun. It feels like an overcompensation for the Zhaitan fight criticism. 1. Illusions concept was good but why did you have to fight four of them? why not just two? 2. The penalty box is bad design. It adds injury to insult. I soloed on my Sylvari and became frustrated with having to start the whole Mordy fight over and over again. 3. Blowing players off the platform only makes it more painful. Because once blown off, you go to the penalty box.

The bottomline is that after 2hrs and countless failed attempts I gave up. Just about a hour ago, I tried again all the way from the beginning. Completed it without one death within 45mins. I should be happy but my only response was “screw this fight and not doing it ever again.” The only reason I tried on my alt is because I wanted the Sylvari experience which I thought was well done. This fight was not fun and did not invoke feelings of pride when I did it. It just kittened me off to the point that I will not be preordering POF. I am going to wait to see if POF story missions are like this and if they tie mastery points to adventure like activities. That was the other thing that frustrated me about HOT. This last fight leaves a bad taste in a lot of players mouths. Please do not ever design a story mission like this again.

Can you feel it? HOT HOT HOT

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Posted by: Opopanax.1803

Opopanax.1803

Didn’t they fix the fight so you are safe under brahams shield during the flight/ burning ground phase?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Didn’t they fix the fight so you are safe under brahams shield during the flight/ burning ground phase?

They did indeed.

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Posted by: Tyger.1637

Tyger.1637

The bottomline is that after 2hrs and countless failed attempts I gave up. Just about a hour ago, I tried again all the way from the beginning. Completed it without one death within 45mins. I should be happy but my only response was “screw this fight and not doing it ever again.” The only reason I tried on my alt is because I wanted the Sylvari experience which I thought was well done. This fight was not fun and did not invoke feelings of pride when I did it. It just kittened me off to the point that I will not be preordering POF. I am going to wait to see if POF story missions are like this and if they tie mastery points to adventure like activities. That was the other thing that frustrated me about HOT. This last fight leaves a bad taste in a lot of players mouths. Please do not ever design a story mission like this again.

I have just had the penalty box experience and then managed to get to the Blighted X fight…

“Shield yourselves or take to the skies to avoid his attack”
I take to the skies… KICKED FOR LEAVING INSTANCE AREA.

There’s a few choice words I could put; most of them infractionable.

(edited by Tyger.1637)