Hearts and Minds penalty box?
I have soloed hearts and minds many times. The penalty box doesn’t affect solo play at all. It only affects group play.
I’ve gotten many people through Hearts and Minds, and the first time or second time you do it, you’ll often end up in the penalty box. It means you’ve died, but other people in the party are still alive.
If that happens, and someone remains alive, they can finish it, without you participating, because you’re in the penalty box. It’s a stupid mechanic. But only one person needs to finish the instance for you to get credit, even if you are in the penalty box.
I’ve been in the penalty box myself once or twice and it’s completely unfun. Whoever thought that mechanic was a good idea needs to rethink what most people find fun. Sitting there watching others fight on my behalf with no way to rejoin them is not fun.
But don’t let the posts of a few people ruin your experience, because it’s not as bad as all that. Hell, I’ll help you through the instance the first time if you want. I enjoy it.
When I, eventually, get there, I may ask for your help.
Thanks for the response, that helps ease my worries a lot.
And yes I agree that it’s a dumb mechanic, it shouldn’t be implemented in ANYTHING, let alone a story instance.
Well most people solo the story so most people never see it, or even know about it.
Lots of people who say it’s not a problem can already solo the fight, so it doesn’t bother them. Many people did the fight with groups (PUGs or guildies etc); they might never have spent much time in the box, if any.
I think the main thing is that before this week’s changes, the fight was “too challenging” for some people. And once having died, it felt bad to sit out the rest of the fight for a variety of reasons.
With the changes, I suspect that a lot more groups will be able to stay alive (if not the first time through, then before very long) and the penalty box complaints will diminish greatly.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Its like in raid. Basically when someone dies they go inside the box and they cant rejoin the fight.
Is it much different than being defeated where there is no rezzing (like in Dungeons, I think)? Except that you can move around in the ‘box’?
I don’t know…it reminded me of Guild Wars (except no ‘click on Party Member to watch the action’).
Perhaps, with all the feedback, there won’t be a ‘penalty box’, anymore, just laying where one falls (maybe with the option to be rezzed, maybe not). /shrug
I’ve never done it solo, as I am usually helping out guildees that call out for help on the story. I was in the penalty box once and that was horrible. All I could do was organize the remaining players bar breaks. Usually I have to ask the other players to bear with it in order for them to get the credit for the story. I can’t believe this idea even passed quality control….
Is it much different than being defeated where there is no rezzing (like in Dungeons, I think)? Except that you can move around in the ‘box’?
I don’t know…it reminded me of Guild Wars (except no ‘click on Party Member to watch the action’).
Perhaps, with all the feedback, there won’t be a ‘penalty box’, anymore, just laying where one falls (maybe with the option to be rezzed, maybe not). /shrug
You can rezz people in dungeons. You can even rez people in combat in dungeons. You can’t waypoint in dungeons to the waypoint unless the entire party is out of combat, but once the party is out of combat, you can waypoint.
Being dead and staying down there would give people a chance to try to rez you, or even allow you to use a revive orb (which you can do in dungeons as well).
Putting you in a place where you can see everything and not participate feels bad.
Oh, I don’t really do Dungeons, so I wasn’t aware.
As I said, perhaps, next time, they won’t include ‘penalty boxes’. Nothing can be done for this one, it seems.
Putting you in a place where you can see everything and not participate feels bad.
I far prefer that to what often happened during a dungeon boss fight: I couldn’t participate and I couldn’t see everything. In particular, for this fight, it helped me to learn the mechanics, since I could actually see how the fight was progressing.
I’d have no problem if ANet removed the mechanic from this fight and I hope they never do anything like this again for another story instance.
All the same: not everyone thinks it’s a bad thing, i.e. it only feels bad for some people.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I agree with Vayne that of the mechanics of this fight, the penalty box is the one that makes things “unfun.” I play with family members in GW2 and we often do story steps together. GW2 is an MMO and should be playable in all modes taking MP play into account. The penalty box is a bad mechanic. It’s not fun, and should be replaced with something else.
Sadly, the devs have already stated that there is some technical reason why they can’t (or won’t) get rid of it. I’d love to know why as for the life of me, I can’t see a reason.
I would like to know the arguments of someone that truly like the penalty box.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
I would like to know the arguments of someone that truly like the penalty box.
Why? It’s not a question of truly liking a penalty or being penalized. You’re better off looking for arguments from players that feel the penalty box is appropriate or justifiable in that instance.
E.g. I may not like the speeding ticket that I got, but I acknowledge that it is justified as a means of controlling behaviour.
G R E E N E R
Putting you in a place where you can see everything and not participate feels bad.
I far prefer that to what often happened during a dungeon boss fight: I couldn’t participate and I couldn’t see everything. In particular, for this fight, it helped me to learn the mechanics, since I could actually see how the fight was progressing.
I’d have no problem if ANet removed the mechanic from this fight and I hope they never do anything like this again for another story instance.
All the same: not everyone thinks it’s a bad thing, i.e. it only feels bad for some people.
Even though I know the fight well, I can die due to lag sometimes, being in Tasmania. I don’t really need to see the fight anymore. Early on it was useful I agree.
Calling it a penalty box is really confusing to me because it implies you eventually get to leave it and rejoin the game.
You rejoin the story instance and get credit for having kilt Mordy, even though you waited one or two phases standing in the penalty box watching the other players take it down. It is not a hard fight at all, except for missing an updraft to keep you off the burning floor.
Calling it a penalty box is really confusing to me because it implies you eventually get to leave it and rejoin the game.
Hmmn. It doesn’t imply that to me. In any case, it’s a community nickname; the developers didn’t actually call it anything. (I’ve referred to it as being in a “time out”.)
Arguably, you do get to rejoin, but only after the fight is over.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
i dont know if it still the same today .. but i remember that i joined a group for heart and minds with 2 other players a while ago. They both died and ended in the penalty box and went immediately AFK. I finished the entire fight all by myself. Guess what … only the owner of the story instance can deliver the final killing blow on Mordremoth to finish the story. And i was not the one who started the story … i waited but the AFKers never returned … so i exited the game and i almost demolished my desk .
penality box .. best idea ever.
Calling it a penalty box is really confusing to me because it implies you eventually get to leave it and rejoin the game.
Hmmn. It doesn’t imply that to me. In any case, it’s a community nickname; the developers didn’t actually call it anything. (I’ve referred to it as being in a “time out”.)
Arguably, you do get to rejoin, but only after the fight is over.
Actually I think the term was first used by a developer, who described it pre HoT in one of the interviews. He was bragging about it with regards to challenge. Don’t ask me to find it now though.
Instead of kitteneless adrenal mushroom they should have added four cannons to the box. In this way players could still shoot at Mordremoth.
(edited by Belenwyn.8674)
Eh, I’m kinda split on this…
On one hand, I don’t like the idea of removing players from the game play with mechanics like this.
It’s annoying and not a ton of fun being forced to watch someone else play while you can sit there and do nothing.
On the other hand, I can see what they were trying to do.
Mordremoth basically won the mental duel with the defeated player, and as such, that player is ‘cast aside’ while Mordremoth is continuing to fight the others that are assaulting his mind…
Basically, I see the concept behind it, but I agree that its implementation is not the best.
Thing is, I’m not sure of a better way to show a player as truly ‘defeated’ like this is supposed to show.
Putting them in a down state and be un-rezz-able like in at least some of the Raids?
Maybe turning them into enemy thralls of Mordremoth until the other players can break them free of his control? (I can see the worthless trolls on this game abusing that one…)
I dunno… Maybe someone else can come up with a better mechanic to represent the concept?
“If half as many people were half as brave in real life as they were online…
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
Eh, I’m kinda split on this…
On one hand, I don’t like the idea of removing players from the game play with mechanics like this.
It’s annoying and not a ton of fun being forced to watch someone else play while you can sit there and do nothing.
On the other hand, I can see what they were trying to do.
Mordremoth basically won the mental duel with the defeated player, and as such, that player is ‘cast aside’ while Mordremoth is continuing to fight the others that are assaulting his mind…Basically, I see the concept behind it, but I agree that its implementation is not the best.
Thing is, I’m not sure of a better way to show a player as truly ‘defeated’ like this is supposed to show.
Putting them in a down state and be un-rezz-able like in at least some of the Raids?
Maybe turning them into enemy thralls of Mordremoth until the other players can break them free of his control? (I can see the worthless trolls on this game abusing that one…)
I dunno… Maybe someone else can come up with a better mechanic to represent the concept?
If that is the concept, put a condition on them that diminishes their damage, or make them more slow, or something like that: something that makes them feel they are struggling to attack Mordy, that they are in the fringe of total defeat. Notice that being just shy of defeat is much more interesting than simply being defeated. Real total defeat is not fun unles is truly total, as in everyone dying and having to roll back to a previous savepoint.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
I’m personally indifferent on the penalty box and I would have to say I lean towards disliking it because it’s frustrating on the occasion that I do die, but I don’t feel like it’s worth spending developer resources on just to re-do the whole instance so this one “problem” can be fixed.
Far Shiverpeaks
Why did they add the mushroom to the box if you can’t even do anything?
Leader of the Wind Riders [WIND]
I support Tengu as a playable race.
I support Tengu as a playable race.