Guild Wars 2

“You’ll journey through four of the largest, most diverse and replayable maps ever built in the world of Guild Wars®; maps in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns are designed as three-dimensional volumes rather than traditional flat planes. You’ll have more to explore as you travel through the jungle biomes, from the canopy heights to the jungle floor and deep below into the jungle roots.”

Taken from here: http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

What do you guys think? Is that just right? Too big? Too small?

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

It’s about what I expected from their previous comments, less than I hoped, more than I thought could be the minimum (3). Given the quality of recent maps I think this could be plenty. One thing that I do hope is that they offer some variety to the maps, that they aren’t all just some combination of sandstone canyons and vines like DT, Silverwastes, and what we’ve seen of Verdant Brink. I also hope they spread them out a bit, instead of clustering them all together like the current GW2 map is, maybe spread them out a bit like the old GW1 maps were, so that they cover more of the world map.

What I like about having fewer maps, but having bigger ones, is that there will be a lot less loading screens

we already know from datamining they aren’t even close to the size of some of the old maps, don’t know why they think they can say that. Just because they have layers doesn’t make them 3x the size they are on the map. In fact Anet said previously that layers don’t cover the entire map area. So, no, it’s not “12 maps”.

At any rate this is hilariously small & I hope people call them out on it.

Before the expansion was announced, one of the things I knew I would want out of an expansion is a new region to explore. Going by the old maps, that would be 6 maps. If these 4 maps are equivalent or better in size and content to 6 old maps, then I am fine. From what they’ve said and what we’ve seen, these 4 maps may actually be good enough.

I’m not too big on open world pve, but I found DT and SW to be better designed than the maps the game launched with.

Enrif.7359:

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

Based on what we saw in the beta, those 3 ‘levels’ are only distinct areas visually and aren’t actually on top of each other. In other words, still only 4 maps, if all are the same size, each is about the size of the average map already in the game. And yeah, there are some smaller maps (WvW, City, Guild Halls, PvP maps, Raid map) If you compare the size of the expansion to the base game, even before the living story, I’m still not yet convinced that 50 dollars justifies the price.

Iason Evan.3806:

“You’ll journey through four of the largest, most diverse and replayable maps ever built in the world of Guild Wars®; maps in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns are designed as three-dimensional volumes rather than traditional flat planes. You’ll have more to explore as you travel through the jungle biomes, from the canopy heights to the jungle floor and deep below into the jungle roots.”

Taken from here: http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

What do you guys think? Is that just right? Too big? Too small?

great news and glad to see the add maps to pve as well . this is a good day all around

Do not forget the Live Updates that can easily provide another four maps including raids, masteries and other things.

DarksunG.9537:

we already know from datamining they aren’t even close to the size of some of the old maps, don’t know why they think they can say that.

You are aware that Datamining only finds stuff that is currently in the client, right? That means that unless every single part of the expansion is already in the client, your statement is rather premature.

Heck, as far as I am aware we still don’t even have the full Verdant Brink map datamined.

Enrif.7359:

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

Well they did confirm earlier that not every map has 3 biomes. So it won’t be 12.

we already know from datamining they aren’t even close to the size of some of the old maps, don’t know why they think they can say that. Just because they have layers doesn’t make them 3x the size they are on the map. In fact Anet said previously that layers don’t cover the entire map area. So, no, it’s not “12 maps”.

It probably won’t be “12 maps,” but recent maps have been much more dense in content, so they really do feel a lot bigger in practice than they look from above. I appreciate wide open spaces as much as anyone, but I’m not necessarily doomsaying over the number of maps until I have my chance to explore them.

It certainly won’t be the equivalent of 12 maps for reaseons people have already pointed out but in my opinion that’s not even necessary or a bad thing.

Yes, 4 maps doesn’t sound overwhelming but I try to look it at it from a different angle: Dry Top and Silverwastes gave me a lot of enjoyment and I spent far more time in them than I ever thought I would. If each of the four HoT-map gives me twice the content of Dry Top than that would equal 8 Dry Tops. This resulting volume of exploration is good enough for me.

its also good to point content in these maps changes between night and day hence while that doesnt change the number of maps ofcourse, it does potentially nearly double the content of these maps. Well not exactly double, dont expect adventures and such will change so its not exactly double bit still quite a bit more.

the day/night cycle event change could be exclusive to verdant brink, and other zones use a different system to change events, like player participation, simple timers, event progress..etc

Galen Grey.4709:

Well not exactly double, dont expect adventures and such will change so its not exactly double bit still quite a bit more.

Uhu. Adventures won’t change, the landscape won’t change, vistas won’t change (assuming the new maps will even have those, looks like polish was restricted to the core release) and so on.

It’s not even near double. It’s more like a x1.1.

Ohoni.6057:

It probably won’t be “12 maps,” but recent maps have been much more dense in content, so they really do feel a lot bigger in practice than they look from above.

Silverwastes is basically a copy-paste map that feels like ArenaNet decided to increase its size without bothering to increase its content, leading us to 4 fortresses that are exactly the same and just cycle the exact same events over and over.

If HoT will be like Silverwastes – and it looks like it will be – then the 4 maps (LOL!) will be basically copy-paste maps as well. They have already told us we will fight the same boss in multiple maps (the wyvern or whatever it’s called).

They’re working on another expansion, that’s the only explanation I see.

300 persons, 3 years, 3 YEARS to make 4 maps and 1 raid?
How on earth is it possible?

Called it. Glorified Living World updates you’re paying for. Hope those who screamed for an expansion are happy now. And the cherry on top? Free-to-play.

Wonderful.

I’m not going to even humor that three levels means more ‘maps’ nonsense. That’s just white knight stretching.

Yunielesca.2850:

They’re working on another expansion, that’s the only explanation I see.

300 persons, 3 years, 3 YEARS to make 4 maps and 1 raid?
How on earth is it possible?

Do you really want someone to answer that question?

lordkrall.7241:

DarksunG.9537:

we already know from datamining they aren’t even close to the size of some of the old maps, don’t know why they think they can say that.

You are aware that Datamining only finds stuff that is currently in the client, right? That means that unless every single part of the expansion is already in the client, your statement is rather premature.

Heck, as far as I am aware we still don’t even have the full Verdant Brink map datamined.

How many years are people going to say this & be proved wrong? It’s happened over & over & over.. The people that have said: “no, no, just wait. You’ll see.” have been wrong every time. People have been right about datamining & stuff since beta. The only thinks they’ve been way off on are meaningless things like Marjory’s possible death.

The sad truth, is that with that release, no matter how big will be the 4 maps, we will never get more than Tyria.

Cantha and Elona (and others continents) needs far way more continent, and with that specific of doing maps, it is not that good.

I am kinda sad tho, our dream is getting far away. I would rather see the Lore explode, a whole new world to explore, that will be SO big !

Well, we will see. We will judge when we will see the expension

There are 4 mini-maps, the total is equal to one normal map. Discard their pr speak about layers, it’s not innocent that in their beta week ends they only show a tiny part of their mini-maps. Given all the problems they had with this tiny demonstrations, it should be normal that they want to beta test all the mini-maps before the launch, wich is near. But they don’t, they only show a little part of a little map. Prepare to be disapointed.

Simzani.4318:

There are 4 mini-maps, the total is equal to one normal map. Discard their pr speak about layers, it’s not innocent that in their beta week ends they only show a tiny part of their mini-maps. Given all the problems they had with this tiny demonstrations, it should be normal that they want to beta test all the mini-maps before the launch, wich is near. But they don’t, they only show a little part of a little map. Prepare to be disapointed.

If you truly believe that the content of the HoT-maps are equal to one normal map then you’re awfully misinformed.

neilug hyuga.5634:

The sad truth, is that with that release, no matter how big will be the 4 maps, we will never get more than Tyria.

Cantha and Elona (and others continents) needs far way more continent, and with that specific of doing maps, it is not that good.

I am kinda sad tho, our dream is getting far away. I would rather see the Lore explode, a whole new world to explore, that will be SO big !

Well, we will see. We will judge when we will see the expension

They might pull a Blizzard doing a huge fan service expansion when they really bombed on the previous one. Who knows, if they’re not rewarded financially enough from this expansion then we may see something truly great in the future. If enough people are satisfied, then maybe not.

Idk, as long as the maps are really huge then I suppose I don’t mind.

And yeah, I really want Cantha and Elona….
sighs

Simzani.4318:

There are 4 mini-maps, the total is equal to one normal map. Discard their pr speak about layers, it’s not innocent that in their beta week ends they only show a tiny part of their mini-maps. Given all the problems they had with this tiny demonstrations, it should be normal that they want to beta test all the mini-maps before the launch, wich is near. But they don’t, they only show a little part of a little map. Prepare to be disapointed.

The available content in Verdant Brinks beta map has already completely annihilated your opinion.

Samarak.7519:

Simzani.4318:

There are 4 mini-maps, the total is equal to one normal map. Discard their pr speak about layers, it’s not innocent that in their beta week ends they only show a tiny part of their mini-maps. Given all the problems they had with this tiny demonstrations, it should be normal that they want to beta test all the mini-maps before the launch, wich is near. But they don’t, they only show a little part of a little map. Prepare to be disapointed.

The available content in Verdant Brinks beta map has already completely annihilated your opinion.

Too bad the main events were so bugged that very few players managed to experience the so-called “available” content in Verdant Brinks.

That’s only one more map than we got for free since the game’s release, and we’re paying $50 for this. Just putting that out here.

Totally not a living story season bolted to a feature pack, no sir.

Enrif.7359:

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

Just to be clear, where does it say that the 4 maps does not include the guild hall maps? We will have to fight in them to claim them, after all, and the video for them did show someone flying in one of them.

I’m satisfied. I’d rather have 4 Verdant Brinks than 8 Lornar’s Passes.

Palador.2170:

Enrif.7359:

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

Just to be clear, where does it say that the 4 maps does not include the guild hall maps? We will have to fight in them to claim them, after all, and the video for them did show someone flying in one of them.

For what I’ve seen on the HoT site, the 4 open world maps were listed along the PvE stuff in the ‘Into the Jungle’ (or something) chapter.

There’s a different chapter for the guild hall stuff, which lists the 2 different areas for them.

Then, in the WvW chapter the desert borderlands is mentioned.

So while it’s not mentioned explicitly, from how it’s presented I think it’s safe to assume that the 4 maps are the regular maps.

Chrispy.5641:

Yunielesca.2850:

They’re working on another expansion, that’s the only explanation I see.

300 persons, 3 years, 3 YEARS to make 4 maps and 1 raid?
How on earth is it possible?

Do you really want someone to answer that question?

4 maps, 1 raid AND 2 guild halls, 1 new profession, 9 elite specs, 1 new WvW map and 1 new SPvP map – which, even thought HoT isn’t needed for, still had to be created – mastery system, precursor and legendary crafting. Since, you know, not every developer was working on maps and raids.

Possibly that they haven’t been working on the expansion for 3 years? Even if they have, if you’re going to count that, you’ll also need to count the rest of the stuff that has been put into the game – temporary or permanent – in them 3 years that had to be created too.

That’s not even debating the fact it’s very unlikely that the 300 people you mentioned are all working on creating the expansion content, since the total number of people working at Anet also includes customer service, QA, bug fixers and the like.

All interesting opinions. I have been very clear with my opinion over the course of these last few months. I am disappointed in the scope of this expansion pack. You may not be and that’s fine. 4 maps isn’t enough for me and I am glad I waited to decide on a preorder until I found out. They may be really well made and I am sure they are as ArenaNet’s content and world design is second to none.

7 maps in 3 years is paltry in my opinion. We’ve had too much temporary content. I know that when I was railing for an x-pac it was for something that had the size and scope of Eye of the North. Different climates. Multiple dungeons. Tons of new armor and weapons to kit my characters out with. I wanted something expansive. Again, I know the x-pac will be quality. ArenaNet is tops in that department. There is something to be said for sheer size and scope though too. I like open world games because they feel massive and lived in. The base game felt that way for me at least. 4 maps doesn’t.

4 maps, 2 armour sets, etc…
The scale is… disappointing… Especially since I’m an active supporter of LESS dense events and greater ambience.

Unless they can do a 180 on story-telling and world-building, not really expecting anything to leave me satisfied as it stands.

DarksunG.9537:

lordkrall.7241:

DarksunG.9537:

we already know from datamining they aren’t even close to the size of some of the old maps, don’t know why they think they can say that.

You are aware that Datamining only finds stuff that is currently in the client, right? That means that unless every single part of the expansion is already in the client, your statement is rather premature.

Heck, as far as I am aware we still don’t even have the full Verdant Brink map datamined.

How many years are people going to say this & be proved wrong? It’s happened over & over & over.. The people that have said: “no, no, just wait. You’ll see.” have been wrong every time. People have been right about datamining & stuff since beta. The only thinks they’ve been way off on are meaningless things like Marjory’s possible death.

They are wrong every time with the wait and see they take a classical company bait. Not only here, but in life in general. For another example, in wrestling, there is one top guy since about 10! years. The guy is so so with a highlight then and when. Still, when some fans vote with their voices, sadly not their wallets for a new, much more exciting guy, the league gives them some lukewarm chances until they either manage to cool people´s interest in them or are forced to bend over and take it. Still, at the first slip of the new guy, management panics and sends in their old hero because he sells merchandise. And even there, with a blatantly obvious shtick, fans hold on to the idea that things will turn out better this time.

I’m more interested in the time and design aspects of new content than map numbers.

I don’t see any reason to doubt there will be at least good 15 hours worth of fresh content(story, raid run and time spent unlocking exploration based masteries), which would be fine by me for $50.

I’m guessing they’re holding some living world style content right now to keep it near track with their old pace of it, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we more maps over the next year.

4 maps and all of them are jungle, jungle, jungle. Yea, it’s hard to be hyped or stay positive about HoT.

wasted.6817:

4 maps and all of them are jungle, jungle, jungle. Yea, it’s hard to be hyped or stay positive about HoT.

well for a start remember the golden city is probably in one of the zones, thats sure to be quite different to explore compared to other jungle areas.

Yunielesca.2850:

They’re working on another expansion, that’s the only explanation I see.

300 persons, 3 years, 3 YEARS to make 4 maps and 1 raid?
How on earth is it possible?

Because they werent working on it for 3 years.

What they were doing was experimenting, with living story in different ways, trying different things, seeing what worked, and what didn’t. At some point, they said “aha, this methodology seems successful, so let’s do that!”

Also, and I don’t know if this is true, but from what I understand they had a major release involving another mmo, and the owners of anet didn’t want GW2 competing with… hm.. was it Aion? I can’t recall off hand. Anyway, so the GW2 team was told to hold off on anything major until whatever other mmo that was had a chance to get its footing.

That last bit is hearsay btw. I can’t say its true.

Anyway, as I was saying though, I don’t believe they were working on this until they got what was working best. I think marionette, the LA invasion, and drytop/silverwastes were the final tests that made them decide they were on the right track. By the time of silverwastes they were probably in full swing with the development cycle.

all guesses of course.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Called it. Glorified Living World updates you’re paying for. Hope those who screamed for an expansion are happy now. And the cherry on top? Free-to-play.

Wonderful.

I’m not going to even humor that three levels means more ‘maps’ nonsense. That’s just white knight stretching.

So three levels on a map being more real estate than one level doesnt count, but if was three separate maps they would?

You know, you may call it white knighting, but it sure is black knighting to go with all this venom when you havent even SEEN the entirety of one of these maps yet.

Lol, this gets even better. There are only 2 armor sets and 5 weapon sets. So there are 4 new same themed maps, that in terms of art created and used are probably more of a 2 maps equivalent, 3 legendaries, 1 raid, 2 (!!!!!!!!) new armor sets and 5 weapon sets. AND they charge 50 bucks for that. How was it… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmqJUkdyRz0

Straylight.7529:

Simzani.4318:

There are 4 mini-maps, the total is equal to one normal map. Discard their pr speak about layers, it’s not innocent that in their beta week ends they only show a tiny part of their mini-maps. Given all the problems they had with this tiny demonstrations, it should be normal that they want to beta test all the mini-maps before the launch, wich is near. But they don’t, they only show a little part of a little map. Prepare to be disapointed.

If you truly believe that the content of the HoT-maps are equal to one normal map then you’re awfully misinformed.

And yet, you, having not seen the entire map in game play yourself, are well informed?

wasted.6817:

Lol, this gets even better. There are only 2 armor sets and 5 weapon sets. So there are 4 new same themed maps, that in terms of art created and used are probably more of a 2 maps equivalent, 3 legendaries, 1 raid, 2 (!!!!!!!!) new armor sets and 5 weapon sets. AND they charge 50 bucks for that. How was it… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmqJUkdyRz0

Did you miss the rest of it? The wvw, spvp, new class, 9 new elites, etc etc? IT sure does seem too expensive when you conveniently leave out all that other stuff.

As for the maps, you really need to stop focusing on the number, and start focusing on the combination of verticality and density.

They have said there will be three biomes. So when you look at that datamined map, even if its accurate, thats just one of three levels.

Secondly the maps’ events are much denser than in the other maps. In many of those maps in the current game you spent a lot of time running to get anywhere, do anything etc, and unless its a world boss event going on, most of those maps are usually pretty empty. There are exceptions, such as the orr zones with the temples, but those are exceptions.

Meanwhile, drytop and silverwastes are usually fairly well populated. Lots more going on. Much DENSER.

Additionally, the night and daytime events will be different.

Plus there are the new adventures system.

Plus the lores from the masteries that are said to unlock more events and activities.

It sure is easy to make the xpac seem not worth it when you cherry pick your complaints and leave the rest out.