Guild Wars 2

So over the last several days we have seen a sharp decline in the map population as the launch herd has moved on to other games or to doing specific content in GW2 outside leveling their main and working though the story for the first time. If you were able to put the rest of your life on pause during launch week you got to have a unique experience. The excitment of being on the maps for the first time with a huge group of players and the inevitable and superficial rush to the finish line has occurred and the stadium has emptied out save for the loyal ones who will now carry the game forward. Many of us are taking our time playing through the content and it’s always awkward around this point after launch of new expansion (regardless which MMO it is) as the amount of time it takes to find groups can become unbearable and the developer continues to tune content to accomodate current population (we know it’s happening ArenaNet, even if it isn’t in the patch notes). It can be a frustrating time. Here are a few suggestions

• Accept that you are often not going to get help when you ask for it. It’s not that other players are bad or that the community overall is bad, it’s just they have other things to do and there are now far fewer of them with any incentive to go after the hero challenge, event, story, etc… that you want to go after. You’re upset that no one is offering to help with your objectives so be part of the solution and take some time to offer in map chat or peek at the LFG status and find something to help with. You will get XP for mysteries and probably make a friend in the process. If more people do this then someone will likely be there to help you

• Consider offering gold to party members. I will admit to having done this with a bitter spirit and I shouldn’t have. ANet has no problem with players paying players for services and in fact this goes back to GW1 when we paid gold in exchange for runs. If you’re short on time and need a party to go do something specific offer x amount of gold. Also consider advertising in LFG to sell your services for hero challenge tours on specific maps. Using portal Mesmers will be especially sought out for getting around some of the mastery requirements. Many players will suggest in investing in a tag (300g / ~$30 USD) but I would suggest instead follow other’s tag for meta events and instead just offer x gold per party member to help you with specific content. You’ll save money.

• Play though HoT on your alts, leveling more than one at a time. The Elite Specializations give you incentive to do this.

• The race in HoT is over. The herd cleared what they wanted and have moved on. There’s no longer a race to the finish line so ease up a bit. You can always go back to core game and cap the 1pt hero challenges to help with your elite spec unlock, do Fractals, WvW, sPvP. Chances are if you’re still around you loved the core game and were here long before HoT launched. When you can’t get help with something return to core game for a while and don’t forget the new players who came in when the game went free to download/free to play. Many of them are needing help with story, dungeons, etc… Core game Masteries should add incentive for you to do this.

Players who rushed the content have gotten their reward. Yours will be enjoying a more tuned, bug free experience as you take your time. You’ll notice with each bullet point, ANet has baked in incentives to approach the content this way. It’s clear they put some thought into how to sustain the game in the early days “after the herd leaves”. I think they should have put more thought into it (no developers wants to accept that the launch community will dwindle, but from my experience the drop always happens 1.5-2 weeks in).

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

I actually am glad to be heading into things now. I like to take my time and mix up exploration with storyline and meta events. The first week was full of oohs and ahhs and endless threads of complaining on the forums. Finally, I can immerse myself in the storyline and not stories.

Good tips, and I still see very large amounts of people in the new maps, especially Auric Basin and Dragon Strand.

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

This. There are lots of people in HoT. The problem is Anet has, for whatever reason, been unable to tweak their megaserver algorithm to get those people into the same map instances together. The new maps, on the whole are hopping, but each individual map instance is dead.

Land of Cheese.2584:

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

This. There are lots of people in HoT. The problem is Anet has, for whatever reason, been unable to tweak their megaserver algorithm to get those people into the same map instances together. The new maps, on the whole are hopping, but each individual map instance is dead.

This… I know they said they knew there was an issue with the megaservers but it seems like it’s still not really fixed yet. I know there are tons of people there because I look at guild rosters and I see 1/2 to 3/4 of the people in HoT maps. That means there are people there just spread across too many maps.

It’s pretty easy to get your entire elite spec mostly solo from just the first two maps. If I find a hard one I usually just map chat or wait a minute or two for someone to else to show up. It doesn’t take too long.

The real issue is it’s a bit of a struggle to find maps doing the meta events.

HoT is a bust. The mega server hides some of it’s failings, but the sad truth is that HoT killed GW2.

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

This is a big problem, though. How many players know how to find and use a taxi? How many know how to use a taxi but simply don’t want to?

Taxiing isn’t a game mechanic, it’s a side effect of the megaserver system that players have learned to use to their advantage. ANet shouldn’t be relying on it, they should be tweaking event scaling and megaserver sorting so that taxis aren’t necessary.

tobascodagama.2961:

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

This is a big problem, though. How many players know how to find and use a taxi? How many know how to use a taxi but simply don’t want to?

Taxiing isn’t a game mechanic, it’s a side effect of the megaserver system that players have learned to use to their advantage. ANet shouldn’t be relying on it, they should be tweaking event scaling and megaserver sorting so that taxis aren’t necessary.

I think it’s safe to say that ANet is relying on players using the “Join in” mechanic to get players into a shard they want to be in. Given their inability/unwillingness to allow players to choose a shard (as they did in GW), how else would players get around? Even if ANet were to write “better” algorithms for mega-servers, some players are going to be taxiing anyway to get with guild members, friends, or just with players who have the same intent.

The only real problem is far-flung areas of a map with one-and-done objectives behind group content (HC’s). I’d rather see these exploration objectives tuned for singletons, while still offering challenge, and with scaling if there are groups. Since taxiing is likely to be the go-to solution for meta events, this would solve a lot of the “empty map” issues.

Good post. Just one question as I seem to have missed something. What are Mysteries?

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

True. But I do feel Anet should rather look at the mega-server system, ideally I wouldn’t need to use LFG to get on a populated, active map.

Grim West.3194:

HoT is a bust. The mega server hides some of it’s failings, but the sad truth is that HoT killed GW2.

Yeah… I’ve been around for a while so I can honestly say that I’ve seen plenty of people making the same claim after every major patch or change.

Garambola.2461:

Good post. Just one question as I seem to have missed something. What are Mysteries?

Mystery
noun
plural noun: mysteries
1.
something that is difficult or impossible to understand or explain.

:P

tobascodagama.2961:

This is a big problem, though. How many players know how to find and use a taxi? How many know how to use a taxi but simply don’t want to?

Taxiing isn’t a game mechanic, it’s a side effect of the megaserver system that players have learned to use to their advantage. ANet shouldn’t be relying on it, they should be tweaking event scaling and megaserver sorting so that taxis aren’t necessary.

Definitely, especially when we consider what fraction of the player base bothers with the forums at all (not the majority) and probably has no idea there is even a problem with the map population mechanic.

All they see are dead maps, and that is the impression they will have of Heart of Thorns.

I don’t think that bodes well for anyone.

Majic.4801:

All they see are dead maps, and that is the impression they will have of Heart of Thorns.

I don’t think that bodes well for anyone.

Wait…hmmmm, so HoT is pretty dead? (Yet to buy HoT here)

Cannot really agree with the OP. This game has a really nice community compared to other games.

I don’t think the maps are dead they’re just big and people are spread out. I still find large groups doing events in verdant and auric.

StevenMah.9854:

Majic.4801:

All they see are dead maps, and that is the impression they will have of Heart of Thorns.

I don’t think that bodes well for anyone.

Wait…hmmmm, so HoT is pretty dead? (Yet to buy HoT here)

I don’t think so, but players who play the game (probably the majority) rather than visiting the forums may conclude as much if they land in underpopulated maps.

There’s nothing in the game which warns them about this issue, and so no reason to think dead maps are the result of a bug. Hence the conclusion that “HoT is dead”.

In total, I’m sure there are plenty of players in the new zones, but they’re either “taxied in” and clustered in maps non-taxiing players are unlikely to be assigned to (since the maps are already well-populated), or ending up in maps that may not have as many players as they should, which can make completing much of the content more difficult or even impossible.

That can lead to frustration and dissatisfaction with the expansion, even for players who might otherwise love it.

That’s a problem.

The workaround is to use the LFG tool to taxi into a better map instance, but if players don’t know about that, they won’t try it.

I don’t think its people leaving the game after HoT, I do think there is a problem/bug with the megaserver assignment though, ive seen parties enter a HoT map and 4 of 5 people get out onto different maps with various levels of people going from near full to no one about,

Anet really need to look into this problem, as its giving some people the sense that the maps are dead when they are not,

The same is happening with fractals, parties all hitting enter and being put into separate instances or all being kicked out to LA, something is clearly not working behind the scenes.

It seems game reviewers are also noticing the problem:

IGN: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns Review

And yes, Leif Johnson does know about the LFG tool.

Since the Volunteer system was introduced I experienced it only 2 times in core Tyria (a year or so?).
On HoT maps I’ve got the pop up around 15 times since launch (2 weeks).

They said they addressed the mega server issues, so not sure why I keep getting notified that maps are too empty.

VaLee.5102:

Since the Volunteer system was introduced I experienced it only 2 times in core Tyria (a year or so?).
On HoT maps I’ve got the pop up around 15 times since launch (2 weeks).

They said they addressed the mega server issues, so not sure why I keep getting notified that maps are too empty.

Don’t think that all Megaserver PRobs are adressed. Just two or three Days ago, a Friend and I duo’d a Wyvern in the Itzel Event Chain ( was Awesome to kill it with just 2 ). After the kill we got kicked because the Map closed and we both landed on different Servers. Despite being friends, from the same Server and in a Group. Both Maps were…. they weren’t empty but not as filled as I liked.

The Megaserver problem is only affecting the HoT maps, not the Core Tyria maps, and I think that in of itself is presenting a problem in nailing down the cause and allowing ArenaNet to address the issue completely. After all, you’re talking about it affecting 4 maps out of the entire game…it sounds like a deep rooted problem somewhere in the code of those maps in how they count players(perhaps it is counting the essential NPC’s as players and that’s confusing the algorithm…just a wild theory, not the actual reason).

The maps aren’t dead. I’ve been in VB all day today and it’s very active. They are probably having some megaserver quirkiness that causes some instances to spawn underpopulated.

tobascodagama.2961:

ChrizZcE.5981:

I always see tons of people in the new zones. You just have to use LFG and use a taxi.

This is a big problem, though. How many players know how to find and use a taxi? How many know how to use a taxi but simply don’t want to?

Taxiing isn’t a game mechanic, it’s a side effect of the megaserver system that players have learned to use to their advantage. ANet shouldn’t be relying on it, they should be tweaking event scaling and megaserver sorting so that taxis aren’t necessary.

Maybe if all these people weren’t using taxis, the dead maps would be less of a problem? The problem being is that the overall community wants an overwhelming mob to complete the maps and for all I know, maybe that is what you need to finish the events. Being said, I’ve never taxied, and coincidentally I’ve never seen a map event complete. Most of my time is spent with barely 1-2 people seen every 30 minutes until a big event happens or a commander tag pops up who didn’t taxi, and then maybe MAYBE I’ll see 10 people in the same place.

bravoart.5308:

The problem being is that the overall community wants an overwhelming mob to complete the maps and for all I know, maybe that is what you need to finish the events.

I don’t taxi because I want an overwhelming mob. I taxi because I want to be with people who have the same goals, ie not to get hero points or a vista, or have a wander here and there, but to complete the meta event. I don’t taxi if I’m just puttering around the map exploring.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The only real problem is far-flung areas of a map with one-and-done objectives behind group content (HC’s). I’d rather see these exploration objectives tuned for singletons, while still offering challenge, and with scaling if there are groups. Since taxiing is likely to be the go-to solution for meta events, this would solve a lot of the “empty map” issues.

Or, when starting a HP challenge, add a pop-up box that allows players to select the difficulty level. The link in my sig leads to a thread I started on this the other day.

With selectable difficulty levels, soloers can get the points they need, and hardcore folks can get the challenge they crave. Everyone wins.

The problem is that even if you are on a fully populated map, if you aren’t following a commander tag you are still going to get the feeling that you are by yourself. Solo events take too long to complete.

Even taxi’d maps are very empty. To me, the maps have been sparse even since day 1. I was really bummed cause I was hoping to do the chain events like how it was during beta. (50+ people per event)

On day 1 I went and did Faren’s event and it was only me and 3 other people. And now it’s even more empty. Faren’s chain never even gets past the first event. It’s like no one is doing the meta-events no matter what map I get into. Unless I’m really lucky, which is rare.

And yes I use the LFG. But as I said the LFG maps are often really dead too.

I noticed that if you want to complete an event chain, it helps to ask in map chat and to put a tag (even if apple tag) up. Most people unfortunately don’t stray from the zerg by themselves.

If the map is unresponsive to such requests, taxi to a different map instance (usually taxis are available for all HoT maps, at least in EU). It saves a lot of frustration.

I’ve done VB t4 night 5 times out of 6 tries without too many problems (always organized by random commanders), and seen VB day completed almost always.

tobascodagama.2961:

Taxiing isn’t a game mechanic, it’s a side effect of the megaserver system that players have learned to use to their advantage. ANet shouldn’t be relying on it, they should be tweaking event scaling and megaserver sorting so that taxis aren’t necessary.

Hell, taxiing actually predates the megaservers.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Hell, taxiing actually predates the megaservers.

Everyone to Blackgate on the count of three!

1… 2…

StevenMah.9854:

Majic.4801:

All they see are dead maps, and that is the impression they will have of Heart of Thorns.

I don’t think that bodes well for anyone.

Wait…hmmmm, so HoT is pretty dead? (Yet to buy HoT here)

HoT is designed to be a zerg breaker. No matter what you do, if you want to be successful you really do have to split the zerg.

Take the first zone for instance. There are a number of outposts, each with their own meta event chain. Those chains can be done by a handful of people, and are often done. Other people are in the zone doing adventures, or trying to get achievements, or doing their story. You won’t necessarily see them at your event chain.

Each event chain ends in a different boss with different mechanics. That’s day time. At night, then you’re more in defense mode, but each outpost still has it’s own boss in the canopy. So if there are 125 people in the map (what most people think of as the soft cap, and 100 of them are doing in events, you’ll find less than 20 at every event, and in many cases less than that.

In fact the jungle has multiple levels. I often see 20 guildies yellow dots in the same map with me, near me, but they’re on one level far above me and I’m on another level and I don’t see them.

The maps aren’t dead. They’re designed to make it so that they’re not simply zerged.

These tides are a normal occurance and this one has pulled way to fast they can eitehr leave more or leave less people playing when they are over.

For are these people stating you can still find people in the maps this is megaserver system for all the different servers there can literally be but one map active when compared to the past when every server had its own map. So simply seeing people isn’t an accurate gauge at all because you can see 20 people on the 7th overflow map or the orginal map. Unlike in Gw1 we don’t know how many overflows are created however I do know I’m constantly given the chance to join a more active map and that pop-up has become a common sight.

LFG for dungeons have all but vansihed, WB are a rare sight these days, only 1 or two groups for SW, and even when Teq comes rolling around there are far fewer people giving a taxi. The greatest of which is WvW even with the new maps its a ghost town I don’t even see enemies these days when roaming around. WvW is the only thing still tied to the original server and I feel like I’m the only one on my server and I’d like to craft another legend but I can’t even farm the shards because groups simply don’t exist. Used to be every dungeon had at least 2-3 groups yet these days it’s only on dungeon for a mastery grind and we don’t even have people selling runs anymore.

Once again you don’t base these things on the PVE maps we have far fewer maps with the megaserver system and unlike Gw1 we can’t know how many overflows exist at one time or another.

Also the forums are most definitely drying up the TC created this topic two days ago and were still on page 1 closer to launch this would’ve had quite a deal more posts with trolls and white knights but it seems the rational people have all but abandoned ship.

Doam.8305:

Also the forums are most definitely drying up the TC created this topic two days ago and were still on page 1 closer to launch this would’ve had quite a deal more posts with trolls and white knights but it seems the rational people have all but abandoned ship.

Or they’re too busy playing the game to bother with the forums.

I’ve been playing a lot since HoT launched (and I should mention I wasn’t playing much at all before it did), and both in maps and looking at the LFG tool there’s still plenty going on. That includes HoT content, Silverwastes Vinewrath taxis and chest farming are still big, Teq runs, etc. Heck, people are even doing CoF speed runs to grind masteries, ironically enough, despite the loot nerf.

Now granted, that’s just my own informal survey over the past couple of weeks, and thus not necessarily an accurate accounting of the state of the game overall, but it still seems to me like plenty of people are playing GW2.

If you’re in a dead HoT map, however, it will look like ArenaNet might shut its doors any day now.

That’s why I think it is urgent they get a handle on this map population problem, lest dead maps lead people to think GW2 itself is dead and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As always, I may be wrong, but I really don’t think GW2 is anywhere near dead.

At least, not yet.