I keep seeing people complaining about how mastery’s split people up, how “there aren’t enough” people at certain bosses, etc. and THAT’S THE POINT.
Events and bosses scale incredibly hard in the new content. It’s much easier to do events/bosses with fewer people rather than more. It’s best to spread out and get things done in groups of 5 – 10 not an omni-blob of 100 otherwise the bosses get more health or the events spawn a ton of champions.
I know it’s hard for people to grasp because of how all the other content in the game works but it’s not the same for HoT, or at least the majority of it.
And on that note: I’ve been farming the hell out of Verdant Brink and the same thing happens every single night cycle. A bunch of camps get overrun by the Mordrem because people are piling up in one place and the map never gets past T2. That, or a bunch of people just AFK until the legendary’s spawn and all blob them one at a time which takes twice as long because the health scales so much.
Just spread the word that it’s better not to zerg everything on the new maps. I hate to be that person who’s nagging it all the time.
Thank you for stating this. The biggest problem in HoT is suffering is not crashes or any of the other things being whined about in the fora but closemindedness and inability to adapt.
(edited by WeedyZeGreedy.8635)
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Why when the Zerg purchased the expac and they can bring it to the Jungle?
Why when the Zerg purchased the expac and they can bring it to the Jungle?
what does this sentence even mean?
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
It seems to that HoT is not designed for zerging, not designed for casual players, not designed for solo players, not designed for small guilds and not designed for anyone who might reasonably expect to be rezzed by a random passing player.
It seems to me that HoT is designed to bring out the worst in everyone.
I’ve got plenty of non-HoT stuff to do for now. I’ll wait….
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Please stop saying this. You’re giving people who like the new content a bad name with your elitist exclusionary bullkitten.
LOL Zerging. What people to? Crashes and empty maps are ruining a great expansion.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why should they get a refund?
There’s nothing bad/wrong about an expansion that gives a different, more thoughtful approach to events.
If you bought the expansion without reading a review/first Impression of some kind, it’s your fault for going in blind.
That’s…Not how things work. :facepalm: I’m sorry my camp is so terrible at holding an argument.
Zerging never got you any event chain progress in the newer maps.
When these areas were the prelude to the expansion, why did anyone think the new maps would be any different? SW and DT were experiments for the devs to gain some experience on map wide reward progress. Of course this would be in the new maps.
It seems to that HoT is not designed for zerging, not designed for casual players, not designed for solo players, not designed for small guilds and not designed for anyone who might reasonably expect to be rezzed by a random passing player.
It seems to me that HoT is designed to bring out the worst in everyone.
I’ve got plenty of non-HoT stuff to do for now. I’ll wait….
Oh, the popcorn though. I’m gonna run out of butter. I mean just look at this forum! How could Anet ever claim GW2 has a great community with comments like these?! And it bleeds on to just about every other community site. You see someone give a review people don’t agree with, the comments are filled with name calling. Rich buttery goodness. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. I should stop watching, I should walk away, but man I can’t stop watching.
That’s…Not how things work. :facepalm: I’m sorry my camp is so terrible at holding an argument.
If you’re replying to me, it’s exactly how things work.
If you spend your money without finding out what you’re buying, the only person to blame is yourself.
From my experience, it is designed for small group play. Zergs can work, but you need to actually coordinate things and not just be a mindless blob autoattacking whatever pops up. I kinda prefer that honestly, I’d rather beat the events because people did something right than beat them just because of the sheer number of people autoattacking a boss.
HoT seemed like it wanted to shift the PvE paradigm a lot. Now zerker isn’t always the best for what you want to do. Now you can’t just treat every enemy the same because they’re dead before they can touch you. Break bar mechanics encourage people to actually pay attention during the fights instead of picking up ranged weapon, turning on autoattack and afking until the boss is dead.
Guess it kinda sucks if you liked the old way of playing and bought the expansion, but they did preface it all by saying they wanted to make harder PvE content that required some more group coordination.
That’s…Not how things work. :facepalm: I’m sorry my camp is so terrible at holding an argument.
If you’re replying to me, it’s exactly how things work.
If you spend your money without finding out what you’re buying, the only person to blame is yourself.
You’re oversimplifying a complex matter. Like I keep saying, that’s not how things work.
That’s…Not how things work. :facepalm: I’m sorry my camp is so terrible at holding an argument.
If you’re replying to me, it’s exactly how things work.
If you spend your money without finding out what you’re buying, the only person to blame is yourself.
You’re oversimplifying a complex matter. Like I keep saying, that’s not how things work.
You’re essentially just saying that I’m wrong, without saying how/why thingy aren’t the way I say they are.
Preorder hype and people falling for “Day 1 access” promotions is an issue in the consumer base.
If you go see a terrible movie on day 1 without reading a review, it’s your fault. It’s a question of which you value more, day 1 access or a spending your money safely. You can’t get both.
You’re supposed to decide what you spend your money on before you spend it. You don’t get to return your new party shirt when, against your expectations, it didn’t get you laid.
It’s impossible for any game company to make a product that satisfies everyone. No matter how good your game is, someone don’t like it. It’s the responsibility of the consumer to decide, before buying, whether a product is worth their money.
I will be the first to admit that I am not very good at explaining this, but that doesn’t make it less true. This is a complex scenario with many issues at work here and you can’t simplify it by comparing an MMO to a movie. Maybe someone with a better idea of how MMOs actually work can shed some light on this.
The only way MMOs are different is that people are obsessed with progression and think that they have to have the expansion the second it’s released, so they skip common sense.
There’s nothing magical that makes the business rules of an MMO to a movie, in my opinion in this exact example they’re perfectly comparable.
Entertainmentin media is about saying for an experience. You’re not getting anything concrete or physical. It’s impossible to completely objectively say whether you’ll like or enjoy an experience, which is why we have review. People find reviewers they can relate with and learn what they like, so that they can make purchases as informed as possible.
Not finding out beforehand what the experience will be like, paying for the experience, experiencing it and afterwards asking for your money back is not a reasonable thing to do and is way too exploitable from customers.
A "if you don’t like this, return it" policy is wonderful and extremely customers friendly, but it’s not something you’re entitled to. If it isn’t promised when you make your purchase desicion, then don’t expect it.
But… Movies cannot be updated because the majority of the moviegoers think X aspect of it should be done differently.
I never said that this game couldn’t be updated, I specifically replied to someone asking for a refund because the expansion works differently from what they thought. Finding out what the expansion is about is on the responsibility of the customers, it’s not the responsibility of a developer to make a product that answers to everyone’s (wildly different from one another) expectations and ideas.
The developer makes a product they think is as good as possible, reviewers and day 1 maniacs start playing it, someone careful with their money will wait and listen what the early adopters say.
Developer/publisher is responsible for making and not false advertising their product, consumer is responsible for actually having to decide if it’s something they want to buy.
I think you’re understanding me wrong. I never said the consumer doesn’t have any responsibility. I was saying there’s more too it than that and you’re oversimplifying it.
I keep seeing people complaining about how mastery’s split people up, how “there aren’t enough” people at certain bosses, etc. and THAT’S THE POINT.
Events and bosses scale incredibly hard in the new content. It’s much easier to do events/bosses with fewer people rather than more. It’s best to spread out and get things done in groups of 5 – 10 not an omni-blob of 100 otherwise the bosses get more health or the events spawn a ton of champions.
I know it’s hard for people to grasp because of how all the other content in the game works but it’s not the same for HoT, or at least the majority of it.
And on that note: I’ve been farming the hell out of Verdant Brink and the same thing happens every single night cycle. A bunch of camps get overrun by the Mordrem because people are piling up in one place and the map never gets past T2. That, or a bunch of people just AFK until the legendary’s spawn and all blob them one at a time which takes twice as long because the health scales so much.
Just spread the word that it’s better not to zerg everything on the new maps. I hate to be that person who’s nagging it all the time.
yeah, right, its all zerg. firstly to take out break bars you need lots of people to hopefully make up for people not seaming to know how to use cc abilities.
Also, the makes do a kitten poor job of communicating how to do events and meta’s so people wont split, they will jump on the nearest commander tag.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Yes, no one every complained about how boring world bosses are, and how standing there and pressing 1 is destroying the game. I’ve never seen that complaint /s.
And people think I’m out of touch.
I think you’re understanding me wrong. I never said the consumer doesn’t have any responsibility. I was saying there’s more too it than that and you’re oversimplifying it.
Yeah. You also facepalmed and apologized on my behalf for being terrible at arguments, when your argumentative input is “I can’t explain but my emotions say you’re wrong”.
I think you’re under-simplifying what I said. I replied to a post asking for a refund, don’t assume anything that I didn’t say.
“I can’t explain but my emotions say you’re wrong”.
I’m done. People who put words in other people’s mouth are not worth discussing things with.
This game needed smartly designed, high level, open world content for players. HoT is exactly that. This game also needed new leveling zones. Why have players scale in level to the zone they enter if they were never going to add new level 40-50 zones? 20-30? 60-70?
The issue is that the learning curve is different for new players than it is for those of us who have played the game since launch. Why would anyone who got the game as a f2p player and then bought HoT because they liked the base game go to Silverwastes? It’s understandable that they would get to level 80 and want to head straight into HoT. SW is part of the learning curve though. They are missing out on that and that is part of the problem.
I didn’t buy HoT because it didn’t look like my thing. The x-pac looks like it is well-designed, but both sides have a valid point. When they do x-pacs in the future I think it would behoove them to add in middle level maps that teach the new mechanics so players have an idea of how to handle new high level maps. Also, this gives players new places to level new professions. This also gives lesser skilled players a place to learn the new mechanics too or a viable, new place to play that is more their speed.
When they do x-pacs in the future I think it would behoove them to add in middle level maps that teach the new mechanics so players have an idea of how to handle new high level maps.
That’s Verdand Brink and Auric Basin.
“I can’t explain but my emotions say you’re wrong”.
I’m done. People who put words in other people’s mouth are not worth discussing things with.
Then next time give some actual input to discuss, rather than some generalist politics style “is is a complex matter, so I’m not saying anything”.
Anyone can say “you’re wrong” but without adding a reason why I’m wrong it’s not worth jack.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why should they get a refund?
Why they shouldn’t? You are literally asking for them to fund the game for others but do not play it. Why would they want to do that?
You have to understand, that the HoT seems currently aimed at the group of players too small to fund it on their own. All the players you are asking to stay in core? Without their money there wouldn’t be HoT.
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why should they get a refund?
Why they shouldn’t? You are literally asking for them to fund the game for others but do not play it. Why would they want to do that?
Because when buying the product they didn’t make sure they could get one? At least in my country it’s in the law, that unless it’s specifically stated upon buying a product, then the transaction is final. Because Anet hasn’t specifically stated they’re going for a “Try the game and if you don’t like it you get your money back!” marketing scheme.
You should think BEFORE spending your money, not after.
You have to understand, that the HoT seems currently aimed at the group of players too small to fund it on their own. All the players you are asking to stay in core? Without their money there wouldn’t be HoT.
So why did they buy a product they didn’t want?
It seems to me that HoT is designed to bring out the worst in everyone.
I don’t think it was designed to bring out the worst in everyone, but given the amount of acrimony surrounding just about everything related to Heart of Thorns, it’s hard to believe anyone is really all that happy, either.
Happy people don’t tear each other to shreds.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why should they get a refund?
Why they shouldn’t? You are literally asking for them to fund the game for others but do not play it. Why would they want to do that?
Because when buying the product they didn’t make sure they could get one? At least in my country it’s in the law, that unless it’s specifically stated upon buying a product, then the transaction is final. Because Anet hasn’t specifically stated they’re going for a “Try the game and if you don’t like it you get your money back!” marketing scheme.
You should think BEFORE spending your money, not after.
I don’t know about you, but many people bought this game long before many of the more worrying informations were revealed. In fact, anet did all they could to keep reveal of those to the very last moments, and even then there were lot of things that could be seen only by actually playing it.
Besides, my point still stands – assume all those people were, in fact, well informed about the game and decided not to buy it unless anet changes it for them. They would still complain (because they’d still want expansion for themselves) and Anet would still be as likely to listen to them (because they do need those people’s money).
So why did they buy a product they didn’t want?
Because they didn’t have enough information to realize they wouldn’t like it.
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
When they do x-pacs in the future I think it would behoove them to add in middle level maps that teach the new mechanics so players have an idea of how to handle new high level maps. Also, this gives players new places to level new professions. This also gives lesser skilled players a place to learn the new mechanics too or a viable, new place to play that is more their speed.
Adding new mid-level zones to the jungle does not make sense lore-wise. The leveling zones are the strongholds of the five races. Areas outside of these maps are the territory of the dragons — areas that the races have been driven out of. If these areas were too dangerous to maintain a presence in before, it makes sense that only the best would be there now — not trainees.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why should they get a refund?
Why they shouldn’t? You are literally asking for them to fund the game for others but do not play it. Why would they want to do that?
Because when buying the product they didn’t make sure they could get one? At least in my country it’s in the law, that unless it’s specifically stated upon buying a product, then the transaction is final. Because Anet hasn’t specifically stated they’re going for a “Try the game and if you don’t like it you get your money back!” marketing scheme.
You should think BEFORE spending your money, not after.
I don’t know about you, but many people bought this game long before many of the more worrying informations were revealed. In fact, anet did all they could to keep reveal of those to the very last moments, and even then there were lot of things that could be seen only by actually playing it.
Besides, my point still stands – assume all those people were, in fact, well informed about the game and decided not to buy it unless anet changes it for them. They would still complain (because they’d still want expansion for themselves) and Anet would still be as likely to listen to them (because they do need those people’s money).
So why did they buy a product they didn’t want?
Because they didn’t have enough information to realize they wouldn’t like it.
Yeah but that’s what I’m saying, if you’re puchasing a product based on hype/marketing, then it’s really your fault for doing so. As I said earlier, you can choose between these two options:
1, Preorder and get the game day 1, but realize and accept that no matter how much you liked the previous product, this one might disappoint you.
2, Wait until the game is released and reviewed/first-impression-video’d so that you actually know if the game is going to be worth your money.
If you go for 1, you’re of course allowed to be disappointed, you can ask for the game to be changed, all that. But you have to realized, that YOU made the decision to put your money into something that wasn’t even finished at that moment. Everything pre-release is what the company wants you to see.
If you trust a company enough to invest your money beforehand (always risky), or if you’re so into the product that you know you’d get the game even if it got 4/10 from reviews, preorder.
I’m not saying you’re not allowed to complain, but feeling entitled to something because you made a preorder based on your own expectations and speculation isn’t reasonable. I understand that it feels very frustrating to be let down, but again, it was your own decision that lead to this. If you’re really into Guild Wars 2, you’ll probably planning to be playing the expansion for a loooong while. If you can just resist the hype and wait for a day. Or two days. Or even three days. On that whole scale of things, those days mean nothing. Even the raid is released later so that you don’t have to rush through the content to be there ASAP.
From my experience, it is designed for small group play. Zergs can work, but you need to actually coordinate things and not just be a mindless blob autoattacking whatever pops up. I kinda prefer that honestly, I’d rather beat the events because people did something right than beat them just because of the sheer number of people autoattacking a boss.
HoT seemed like it wanted to shift the PvE paradigm a lot. Now zerker isn’t always the best for what you want to do. Now you can’t just treat every enemy the same because they’re dead before they can touch you. Break bar mechanics encourage people to actually pay attention during the fights instead of picking up ranged weapon, turning on autoattack and afking until the boss is dead.
Guess it kinda sucks if you liked the old way of playing and bought the expansion, but they did preface it all by saying they wanted to make harder PvE content that required some more group coordination.
Agreed.
See, another thing with the scaling is that it also effects breakbars. It’s a lot easier to melt through a boss with just a few people because you only need a little bit of CC where as in a large zerg you need a ton of CC and half the people there will just continue to 1 spam.
HoT is a great release and gives PvE new dynamics. It will just take a while for it to settle in with people because everyone’s so used to the old, zerg everything, PvE that the rest of Gw2 is.
Of course I totally understand people’s frustration but as someone who is primarily a PvP/WvW player I love HoT because it’s a challenge. I’m glad that ANet has finally made some content that needs a different approach but at the same time it can also be frustrating trying to depend on an entire map to split up and co-operate.
Really I just wanted to bring it to peoples attention that there’s a reason for people being split up in the new content. There are so many threads about contested waypoints and confusing map design, etc., etc. but it’s because all of the new content rewards small group play. If anyone has ever tried to zerg the Pale Reaver event in Verdant Brink they should know how much more difficult it gets with a large group. It spawns a ton of champions and in very tight spaces to make things worse.
I’m not setting foot in HoT events anymore until this crashing is FIXED. SO MUCH TIME WASTED !!!!!
How could Anet ever claim GW2 has a great community with comments like these?! And it bleeds on to just about every other community site. You see someone give a review people don’t agree with, the comments are filled with name calling. Rich buttery goodness.
I can answer that one – because the community GW2 was rewarded for plays the game instead of sitting on forums and arguing over stuff….
just saying – in the game people are much much nicer on average…..
Why they shouldn’t? You are literally asking for them to fund the game for others but do not play it. Why would they want to do that?
Well I find it hard to respond with anything more than “because that the most reasonable thing in all industries ever”….
let me put it this way for you:
you go to a restaurant and order a thing X
you and many others complain that X is too salty for your tastes (some does not though)
so in response for that said restaurant on later date put Y on menu which is less salty version of X
it was advertis that Y is better than X so all who was eating X bought Y
some didn’t like Y after all and prefer the saltyness of X
and now there is you asking why those who have eaten Y and didn’t like it should not get refund for it….
You have to understand, that the HoT seems currently aimed at the group of players too small to fund it on their own. All the players you are asking to stay in core? Without their money there wouldn’t be HoT.
and You should go out there to maguuma and start looking around more often.
and stop assuming you know most of player community – HoT aimed at the group of players to small to fund the costs of the expac? good joke dear sir – especially after few day seeing amazing amounts of players actually enjoying their time in HoT areas….
[not mentioning even more players crying for every single thing tht is in hot for years on forums now….]
and as for argument of staying in core game
it was officially stated form the beginning that HoT is going to be challenging content, it was officially stated that it will end zerker meta, and that it will require tactical playing insead of mindless smashing 1.
now there was a fella who asked now what about guys who prefer “old ways” – aka zerging and mindless smashing 1 to clear out everything – and he got response from a guy you refered to that he still have core game.
so now tell me – if you liked zerging and mindless gameplay, and got on every advert information that this thing will be challenging and will require more than that to beat, and no matter that you bought the expac…. you really believe that such a stance deserve refund?
Ahh yes Zerging. Everytime I see a Zerg having PRoblems with a Mob or just banging on an HP Wall I see in Map Chat " We need more People here " ignoring the Fact that there are already too many People here. The battle for Lion’s Arch a long Time ago had the first big example of Zergs making it even harder for everyone, like spawning LvL 84 Elites who are Oneshotting everyone because of being so overly scaled.
Overscaling here is a Problem in doing Events. Not only get we Champs of, already, deadly Mobs, but the Break Bar also scales really high. Having 5 to 10 Man doing an event isn’t that much a Problem. But more than 10? Good Luck getting the Break Bar done. And telling the Map isn’t helping it does the opposite. Sadly most People didn’T know this or ignore this fact
Why should ‘zerging’ be a protected playstyle that gets more advantages than other playstyles?
To the people who say its unfair to take away the ability to zerg, what about the unfairness the rest of us suffered in the core game from having everything cater to zergs?
Why does the ‘zerg’ playstyle deserve privilege that the rest of us are not entitled to?
Zergers had their day, now others get to play.
~Snip~
So why did they buy a product they didn’t want?
Because they didn’t have enough information to realize they wouldn’t like it.
Astral, most of the time I think your posts are intelligent, but this is just flat out wrong…the only information we didn’t have(and we had an inkling of it way beforehand was the 400 HP for Elite Specs). All other information, including the difficulty of the zones was released way before the game went live, and we actually knew that it would take a lot of HP to unlock your Elite, but almost no one paid attention to the information that was given out. Perfect example, I had just under 200 HP on my ranger, but I knew fully well that wasn’t enough to unlock Druid and was trying to obtain as many HP as possible before the change over to XP not granting additional HP after lvl 80. I knew what the difficulty was going to be like, but I figured I could still solo most of the content(and I can, and I’m just a scrub that doesn’t really care about his gear or weapon stats[granted, they’re Exotic, but no real interest in specific builds]). I don’t care if I die a million times, that’s sort of the fun for me, that or seeing if I can actually run through the map without getting downed(I can make it through the one everyone hates easy enough solo). I was one of the people that hated the nerf to Orr, I loved the density of the maps when we first started, now they’re boring, I can run from one end to the other without having to pay attention to the map(I can literally open the main map and run on there, how fun is that?). Technically speaking, anyone that prepurchased who’s 30 days is up isn’t due a refund, but knowing how ArenaNet works they will give them refunds anyways.
~Snip~
See, another thing with the scaling is that it also effects breakbars. It’s a lot easier to melt through a boss with just a few people because you only need a little bit of CC where as in a large zerg you need a ton of CC and half the people there will just continue to 1 spam.
~Snip~
I’m not sure where you got this concept from, but my personal observation of the break bar tells me otherwise. I’ve watched the break bar of some of the Legendary bosses during the night time events in VB, and I can guarantee you the my rangers LB#4 reduces the break bar the same amount whether there are 5 people or 25 people fighting the boss. Now it’s possible a Dev will confirm that the Break bar scales up like HP with group size, but until I see it in game, I’m going to disagree.
Well that’s what I’ve been referring to as my people ‘the silent majority’ that liked the old ways and the old world and frankly hate the new way.
Central Tyria is always there if you want to stay with the “old ways”.
Are you going to offer refunds to all those people you ask to stay in the core? No? I thought so.
Why would I? I don’t work for Anet, so you’re right to think so.
HoT event chains are like SW on crack. Which is good.
We don’t need to go back to content where 50 people are trying to tag a mob that has 5k HP.
For instance, the rally points, you can defend with one person if you’re really good and pretty easily with two. Much like in SW, there is a lot of convergence design. You start spread out, working together but physically apart, and then eventually you reach big boss(es) that many or most of you fight together.
It has been a great way to solve the problem of tagging issues and, on top of that, add to the experience of working together. I hope it continues.
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