HoT is nothing but group events and...
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You may think your average but like most human beings your probabely overestimating your ability
Nah, I’m pretty sure I’m not. If anything, the difficulty is more a result of being out of sync with the class you’re playing or not having a great build.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
The fights are great for solo players. Finally a use for our interrupts, CC, target prioritization, a reason to dodge and move.
Too bad about the actual map design.
Depends on your class. Something that gets talked about surprisingly little is how much variance there is in ability to solo easily from class to class. Personally, I think a lot of story bosses are just hellacious playing solo. Like I have almost rage quit the game on a few occasions, and I know I’m at least average in terms of play skill.
It depends only a little on your class … I haven’t played a class I couldn’t solo around stuff with. The variance is very small, again, depending on how well you know the class and can play it.
What DOES vary is how much easier a class will be over another to solo stuff.
It’s not only possible on every class, but once you know the fights, it’s easy on every class, as long as you’re willing to change your build up, or your weapons, maybe take some food/utility buffs.
Only part I disagree with, mainly because easy is subjective.
I’m not so sure it’s subjective. People who play the game well and know the fights do find it easy. Obviously people who can’t dodge, or have lag, or old machines won’t find it easy. But the truth is, none of this stuff is particularly difficult.
The hardest of all of it is probably the last chapter of the Lake Doric story but after a few repeats, even that becomes easy. It wasn’t easy the first time.
Now it’s possible that some people don’t realize they can set snap to ground target on, to throw the shards without actually aiming, because that makes it a lot easier to break the bar. All you really have to do is move, avoid circles, range and you’ll get it down.
Some people refuse to range and that would make it more challenging.
Mostly every fight has an easy solution. My ability usually runs into finding those solutions. Not every fight can be brute forced though.
Since HoT launched there have been those complaining that the fights in HoT were hard.
If it is easy for some but hard for others then its pretty clear cut that the difficulty is subjective. Some of my guildies breeze through the content, others need help.
Well this is sort of my point. Many of the people who are claiming it is hard, aren’t really interested in learning the game. It’s like saying a sixth grade reader is hard if you don’t learn English.
Mouse clickers probably find it hard, yes. People who keyboard turn, also probably find it hard. I agree with that.
But within the context of games generally, it’s just not that hard. Difficulty is a scale, people’s abilities not withstanding.
What makes something hard or easy is how many people by percentage can accomplish it. It’s a different definition of hard and easy.
Finding something difficult doesn’t necessarily make it difficult, even if it’s difficult for a specific person. That’s where the disconnect here is.
I’m not saying some people don’t find it difficult…but that doesn’t make the content difficult, just difficult for them. It’s a different statement.
There are things that I can’t do in real life that aren’t difficult They’re just difficult for me.
Yes difficult for one person, easy for another. Kind of subjective.
Some people find certain content easy, it doesnt mean the content is objectively easy, just that it is easy for them.
True there is a player element but the bottom line here is that every class has the tools it needs to do the content in the game. Sometimes, even with that set of tools, the player element results in failure. This isn’t a deficiency of the game; I come from an era where it was COMMON for people to be unable to finish games; some games only provided you the slimest margin of toolset to win it and there was no social network to push you through. GW2 is not that kind of game. The tools the classes have are more than sufficient, even overabundant in their ‘survival’ toolset and players/guides are more than giving of information to help people succeed. if a player can’t figure out how to use those things, Anet shouldn’t be coming in to save them with a fix.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
@Ashen
Okay let’s try this from another point of view, that of a developer. The developer has to make content that is not too easy and not too hard for a percentage of the people. Too hard for most people and the game can’t be played. Too easy for most people and most people find it boring.
I’m not talking about whether you find it hard or I find it hard. There are people who know certain games are hard and certain games are easy more generally.
I’m not batter, but I’m a good fielder. I wouldn’t go to a batting range and ask them to change their entire business so I could hit the ball, because I know that the way it’s set it, is set up for people who know how to hit. This is what I’m talking about.
Yes, some people can find a game easy and some people can find a game hard, but beyond that, there has to be some sort of baseline to make a game in the first place.
By your logic if a terrible player, playing on a really really old machine with terrible internet can come here and say yes this game is too hard, make it easier so I can play it.
For him the game would be truly hard. But that doesn’t make the game hard, and if you made it so that guy could play it, 90% of the rest of the people would likely find it too easy and get bored.
Games are created around a baseline of how difficult the company wants the game to be. This is necessarily to keep people interested in the game. Guild Wars 2 did have a very low baseline in core. And Orr had been harder and people complained and Anet nerfed it.
By nerfing Orr, Anet took away some of what they wanted in the game in the first place. They wanted challenging end game open world zones. They said this. They talked about this.
Orr was a bit obnoxious but I don’t think it was really difficult. I think some people did find it difficult, but I don’t believe they were very good players. This is a problem all games have. If you make them too easy for too many people you lose the people that do want challenge.
You’re talking about the subjective feeling of whether something is easy or not, but there is such a thing as difficulty. Here’s an example.
Dodging and moving out of circles that give you a clear tell and more than 2 seconds isn’t hard. It may be hard for some people but the actual act of moving and dodging out of that circle is not hard.
None of the mechanics in HOT is difficult per say. You have a sniper who puts a clear target on your head and when he does, you can move sideways to avoid the red line of death that he’s going to hit you with. That’s not hard. It may be difficult for some people, but objectively moving sideways when you see a target isn’t hard.
There’s a smokescale that does a lot of damage, but also dies fast, as long as you hit it when it’s not in it’s circle of mist, when it’s invulnerable. If you melee it in that circle, you’ll likely die. But it has no range. You can run away from it draw it out of it’s circle and it dies very fast. Again, it’s not a hard mechanic. The circle is very easy to see.
The hardest thing in all of VB is probably the frogs that shoot circles of poison because those circles of poison are harder to see. For me, I’m colorblind, I can barely seem them at all, but I can see my health bar going down fast and I know to dodge out of it. Again, even with my limitiations, this isn’t objectively hard.
There are people out there, and I’ve watched them, who want to charge into everything with a sword and hit it, no matter what they agrro on the way. Those people may have a lot of trouble in HOT because HoT requires you too look around and know what’s going on.
But the mechanics set up in HOT aren’t “hard”, whether people find them hard or not. When you start adding lots of mechanics on top of each other, say a sniper who’s targeting you and a tormenter, who’s putting torment on you, it gets harder. It means you have to move out of the way of the red line of death, while not moving too far and killing yourself, but even then, the tormenter has pretty clear circles indicating what you can’t step in while you’re moving.
It takes practice…it’s not really hard, from the point of view of creating a game.
There is always going to be someone who finds something hard, not matter how easy it is, but you can’t create a game based on that subjective definition of hard and easy, because if you make a game too easy for most people, you’ll lose most people.
I don’t believe HoT is too hard for most people who play games generally. It is harder for certain people. It’s harder for mouse turners and skill clickers as an example. But that’s not the best way to play these games and those same people would find end game content in most games hard.
HoT is my least favorite MMO expansion for a reason. Arena Net deliberately set out to make moving around the world difficult aka swarms of pocket raptors, multiple smokestacks, etc. Soloing champions is a pain in the behind. The Mordy fight is another example of just how badly designed the expansion is. I just cannot recommend that people pick up Heart of Thorns.
Path of Fire on the other hand looks to be a much better expansion. I hope that Arena Net designed content for all types of players this time.
I hope that Arena Net designed content for all types of players this time.
You mean content that is doable by the lowest skilled players? That’s not content for all types of players though, that’s content for those players, still not for everyone.
I hope that Arena Net designed content for all types of players this time.
You mean content that is doable by the lowest skilled players? That’s not content for all types of players though, that’s content for those players, still not for everyone.
I think that means content that caters to low AND content that caters to high skilled player.
Imagine HOT maps designed slightly different. With a central, flat area that resembles core GW2 and all those roots, branches and whatnot above and below that central area. Central area offers easier content while all other areas offer content for “skilled” players. Not impossible.
(edited by symke.3105)
I think that means content that caters to low AND content that caters to high skilled player.
I hope so. Because otherwise it’s not content for everyone -again.
I hope that Arena Net designed content for all types of players this time.
You mean content that is doable by the lowest skilled players? That’s not content for all types of players though, that’s content for those players, still not for everyone.
I think that means content that caters to low AND content that caters to high skilled player.
Imagine HOT maps designed slightly different. With a central, flat area that resembles core GW2 and all those roots, branches and whatnot above and below that central area. Central area offers easier content while all other areas offer content for “skilled” players. Not impossible.
The problem is the expansions aren’t that big to begin with. Most of the game is dead easy. 90% of it probably. We need something easier than HoT but harder than core Tyria, more like the Season 3 zones I think.
We only have five new zones. if half of them are like core Tyria, they’d be frankly dull. So we’d get 2.5 new zones for us and 2.5 new zones for you…I’m not sure who would be happy there.
We only have five new zones. if half of them are like core Tyria, they’d be frankly dull. So we’d get 2.5 new zones for us and 2.5 new zones for you…I’m not sure who would be happy there.
Judging by the LS3 zones they could make some parts easy and some parts hard.
Siren’s Landing and Ember Bay are the easiest zones of LS3 by far, yet they both have one area that is more appropriate difficulty for an end-game. Shrine of Balthazar in Siren’s Landing and the Mursaat Fortress in Ember Bay.
It all depends if they treat the expansion as something to do after you finish the rest of the game (like Heart of Thorns) or if they treat it as something fresh players will do. Use the insta-level 80 booster and go to the expansion ignoring the rest of the game.
We only have five new zones. if half of them are like core Tyria, they’d be frankly dull. So we’d get 2.5 new zones for us and 2.5 new zones for you…I’m not sure who would be happy there.
Judging by the LS3 zones they could make some parts easy and some parts hard.
Siren’s Landing and Ember Bay are the easiest zones of LS3 by far, yet they both have one area that is more appropriate difficulty for an end-game. Shrine of Balthazar in Siren’s Landing and the Mursaat Fortress in Ember Bay.It all depends if they treat the expansion as something to do after you finish the rest of the game (like Heart of Thorns) or if they treat it as something fresh players will do. Use the insta-level 80 booster and go to the expansion ignoring the rest of the game.
The problem for me is that Siren’s Landing doesn’t do it for me. See, VB does it for me, because it’s an entire zone that is cohesive. Every part of it works together. The shortcutes, the multiple ways to get into the canopy without choppers, the hidden stuff. An area of a zone doesn’t fulfill me, and frankly wouldn’t hold my interest.
It’s like reading an action/adventure book where every other chapter is a romance. It wouldn’t work for me.
It may sound selfish but I don’t think this solution will hold most players. Zones like Siren’s Landing wouldn’t keep me playing this game.
It may sound selfish but I don’t think this solution will hold most players. Zones like Siren’s Landing wouldn’t keep me playing this game.
And I completely agree with you. But it’s probably a compromise they have to do to keep players on the other side from leaving. The other solution is to have one zone entirely like Siren’s Landing (Excluding the shrine of Balthazar) and another zone like Tangled Depths. Many believe all 5 maps will be like Siren’s Landing (which I’d hate and won’t keep me playing just like you)
We’ll see what they choose to do and how effective it will be.
@Ashen
Okay let’s try this from another point of view, that of a developer. The developer has to make content that is not too easy and not too hard for a percentage of the people. Too hard for most people and the game can’t be played. Too easy for most people and most people find it boring.
I’m not talking about whether you find it hard or I find it hard. There are people who know certain games are hard and certain games are easy more generally.
I’m not batter, but I’m a good fielder. I wouldn’t go to a batting range and ask them to change their entire business so I could hit the ball, because I know that the way it’s set it, is set up for people who know how to hit. This is what I’m talking about.
Yes, some people can find a game easy and some people can find a game hard, but beyond that, there has to be some sort of baseline to make a game in the first place.
By your logic if a terrible player, playing on a really really old machine with terrible internet can come here and say yes this game is too hard, make it easier so I can play it.
For him the game would be truly hard. But that doesn’t make the game hard, and if you made it so that guy could play it, 90% of the rest of the people would likely find it too easy and get bored.
Games are created around a baseline of how difficult the company wants the game to be. This is necessarily to keep people interested in the game. Guild Wars 2 did have a very low baseline in core. And Orr had been harder and people complained and Anet nerfed it.
By nerfing Orr, Anet took away some of what they wanted in the game in the first place. They wanted challenging end game open world zones. They said this. They talked about this.
Orr was a bit obnoxious but I don’t think it was really difficult. I think some people did find it difficult, but I don’t believe they were very good players. This is a problem all games have. If you make them too easy for too many people you lose the people that do want challenge.
You’re talking about the subjective feeling of whether something is easy or not, but there is such a thing as difficulty. Here’s an example.
Dodging and moving out of circles that give you a clear tell and more than 2 seconds isn’t hard. It may be hard for some people but the actual act of moving and dodging out of that circle is not hard.
None of the mechanics in HOT is difficult per say. You have a sniper who puts a clear target on your head and when he does, you can move sideways to avoid the red line of death that he’s going to hit you with. That’s not hard. It may be difficult for some people, but objectively moving sideways when you see a target isn’t hard.
There’s a smokescale that does a lot of damage, but also dies fast, as long as you hit it when it’s not in it’s circle of mist, when it’s invulnerable. If you melee it in that circle, you’ll likely die. But it has no range. You can run away from it draw it out of it’s circle and it dies very fast. Again, it’s not a hard mechanic. The circle is very easy to see.
The hardest thing in all of VB is probably the frogs that shoot circles of poison because those circles of poison are harder to see. For me, I’m colorblind, I can barely seem them at all, but I can see my health bar going down fast and I know to dodge out of it. Again, even with my limitiations, this isn’t objectively hard.
There are people out there, and I’ve watched them, who want to charge into everything with a sword and hit it, no matter what they agrro on the way. Those people may have a lot of trouble in HOT because HoT requires you too look around and know what’s going on.
But the mechanics set up in HOT aren’t “hard”, whether people find them hard or not. When you start adding lots of mechanics on top of each other, say a sniper who’s targeting you and a tormenter, who’s putting torment on you, it gets harder. It means you have to move out of the way of the red line of death, while not moving too far and killing yourself, but even then, the tormenter has pretty clear circles indicating what you can’t step in while you’re moving.
It takes practice…it’s not really hard, from the point of view of creating a game.
There is always going to be someone who finds something hard, not matter how easy it is, but you can’t create a game based on that subjective definition of hard and easy, because if you make a game too easy for most people, you’ll lose most people.
I don’t believe HoT is too hard for most people who play games generally. It is harder for certain people. It’s harder for mouse turners and skill clickers as an example. But that’s not the best way to play these games and those same people would find end game content in most games hard.
I have, not once, said that development should be balanced around those who find the content difficult. Nothing of the sort.
I stated only that I disagreed with your comment that the content was universally easy on every class. For you perhaps, it has been easy for me as well. But there are others who struggle, even with attempts to adapt via build, etc.
So, again, because it is easy for me doesnt mean that its easy for everyone. Because it is difficult for some doesnt mean that it is difficult for everyone. Because it is easy for some and difficult for others doesnt mean that it is objectively easy or difficult. Because it is difficult for some doesnt mean that the level of challenge should be reduced to cater to those players’ current level of skill. Because it is easy for some doesnt mean that the level of challenge should be increased to cater to those players. Ultimately the developer decides which group of players they wish to please and follows their vision.
@Ashen
Okay let’s try this from another point of view, that of a developer. The developer has to make content that is not too easy and not too hard for a percentage of the people. Too hard for most people and the game can’t be played. Too easy for most people and most people find it boring.
I’m not talking about whether you find it hard or I find it hard. There are people who know certain games are hard and certain games are easy more generally.
I’m not batter, but I’m a good fielder. I wouldn’t go to a batting range and ask them to change their entire business so I could hit the ball, because I know that the way it’s set it, is set up for people who know how to hit. This is what I’m talking about.
Yes, some people can find a game easy and some people can find a game hard, but beyond that, there has to be some sort of baseline to make a game in the first place.
By your logic if a terrible player, playing on a really really old machine with terrible internet can come here and say yes this game is too hard, make it easier so I can play it.
For him the game would be truly hard. But that doesn’t make the game hard, and if you made it so that guy could play it, 90% of the rest of the people would likely find it too easy and get bored.
Games are created around a baseline of how difficult the company wants the game to be. This is necessarily to keep people interested in the game. Guild Wars 2 did have a very low baseline in core. And Orr had been harder and people complained and Anet nerfed it.
By nerfing Orr, Anet took away some of what they wanted in the game in the first place. They wanted challenging end game open world zones. They said this. They talked about this.
Orr was a bit obnoxious but I don’t think it was really difficult. I think some people did find it difficult, but I don’t believe they were very good players. This is a problem all games have. If you make them too easy for too many people you lose the people that do want challenge.
You’re talking about the subjective feeling of whether something is easy or not, but there is such a thing as difficulty. Here’s an example.
Dodging and moving out of circles that give you a clear tell and more than 2 seconds isn’t hard. It may be hard for some people but the actual act of moving and dodging out of that circle is not hard.
None of the mechanics in HOT is difficult per say. You have a sniper who puts a clear target on your head and when he does, you can move sideways to avoid the red line of death that he’s going to hit you with. That’s not hard. It may be difficult for some people, but objectively moving sideways when you see a target isn’t hard.
There’s a smokescale that does a lot of damage, but also dies fast, as long as you hit it when it’s not in it’s circle of mist, when it’s invulnerable. If you melee it in that circle, you’ll likely die. But it has no range. You can run away from it draw it out of it’s circle and it dies very fast. Again, it’s not a hard mechanic. The circle is very easy to see.
The hardest thing in all of VB is probably the frogs that shoot circles of poison because those circles of poison are harder to see. For me, I’m colorblind, I can barely seem them at all, but I can see my health bar going down fast and I know to dodge out of it. Again, even with my limitiations, this isn’t objectively hard.
snip
It takes practice…it’s not really hard, from the point of view of creating a game.
There is always going to be someone who finds something hard, not matter how easy it is, but you can’t create a game based on that subjective definition of hard and easy, because if you make a game too easy for most people, you’ll lose most people.
I don’t believe HoT is too hard for most people who play games generally. It is harder for certain people. It’s harder for mouse turners and skill clickers as an example. But that’s not the best way to play these games and those same people would find end game content in most games hard.
I have, not once, said that development should be balanced around those who find the content difficult. Nothing of the sort.
I stated only that I disagreed with your comment that the content was universally easy on every class. For you perhaps, it has been easy for me as well. But there are others who struggle, even with attempts to adapt via build, etc.
So, again, because it is easy for me doesnt mean that its easy for everyone. Because it is difficult for some doesnt mean that it is difficult for everyone. Because it is easy for some and difficult for others doesnt mean that it is objectively easy or difficult. Because it is difficult for some doesnt mean that the level of challenge should be reduced to cater to those players’ current level of skill. Because it is easy for some doesnt mean that the level of challenge should be increased to cater to those players. Ultimately the developer decides which group of players they wish to please and follows their vision.
And I maintain it doesn’t matter if I find it easy or hard, or you do or any individual does. It’s not relevant to what I’m saying. I’m saying there’s nothing hard programmed into LS seasons, with every few exceptions, and some of those are bugs anyway. I’m not using the definition of what is hard or easy from a consumers point of view, but from a development point of view. You can use whatever definition you want, but you’re talking about something different.
I stated only that I disagreed with your comment that the content was universally easy on every class. For you perhaps, it has been easy for me as well. But there are others who struggle, even with attempts to adapt via build, etc.
This thread is using hyperbole and exaggeration to state how hard Heart of Thorns is. These kinds of comments help nobody, not the player making them, not the developers, not anyone else. When you are struggling in a story instance, in a group event, in a dungeon, against a specific mob, whatever, it’s good to state what build you are using and what specifically you are having trouble with. Then you’ll get targeted advice on how to beat said content that is giving you trouble.
But we don’t see any of that in these types of threads. Only a blanket “I hate heart of thorns, it’s too hard”. It’s not constructive and it’s not helpful.
I stated only that I disagreed with your comment that the content was universally easy on every class. For you perhaps, it has been easy for me as well. But there are others who struggle, even with attempts to adapt via build, etc.
This thread is using hyperbole and exaggeration to state how hard Heart of Thorns is. These kinds of comments help nobody, not the player making them, not the developers, not anyone else. When you are struggling in a story instance, in a group event, in a dungeon, against a specific mob, whatever, it’s good to state what build you are using and what specifically you are having trouble with. Then you’ll get targeted advice on how to beat said content that is giving you trouble.
But we don’t see any of that in these types of threads. Only a blanket “I hate heart of thorns, it’s too hard”. It’s not constructive and it’s not helpful.
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
if Anet wont sell those pixels, we just move to another game
my suggestion: make a OP weapon for those, who want to use it
that would open up lots of unused content, and allow you to stop nerfing
cramming hardcores and casuals into the same zones obviously doesnt work
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them there
yea such a waste of 1-2 hours tops to unlock elite specs, you do know that they have hero point trains going on eu and I think na aswell
yea such a waste of 1-2 hours tops to unlock elite specs, you do know that they have hero point trains going on eu and I think na aswell
They do. I see them pop up at least once or twice a day.
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them there
That’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them thereThat’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500k
yea such a waste of 1-2 hours tops to unlock elite specs, you do know that they have hero point trains going on eu and I think na aswell
trains make the worst players in any mmos, even i know that
hell , some of the times i didnt even see the mob, before it was dead…but i still got the points
i could prolly join a train, and get the unlock without doing any damage at all
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them thereThat’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500k
First of all, I don’t think you should make statements you can’t support. How do you know most casual players don’t suppor the game with money at all? How do you know the percentage of casuals who support the game with real money has significantly changed at all.
PoF won’t show who was right. There are a million reasons why a game can success or fail. In either case it’s unlikely we’ll know how many copies sold. Anything we come up with is guess work.
It’s okay to have an opinion. Make stating unprovable stuff as fact is not the way to go about backing it up.
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them thereThat’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500kFirst of all, I don’t think you should make statements you can’t support. How do you know most casual players don’t suppor the game with money at all? How do you know the percentage of casuals who support the game with real money has significantly changed at all.
PoF won’t show who was right. There are a million reasons why a game can success or fail. In either case it’s unlikely we’ll know how many copies sold. Anything we come up with is guess work.
It’s okay to have an opinion. Make stating unprovable stuff as fact is not the way to go about backing it up.
this forum is mostly about opinions, since that is the only way the devs can get feedback
facts? do you want me to prove , that most people wont pay for something, that they can get for FREE?
lets try with the fact, that the devs have said the expansion was “underperforming”
lets try with the fact, that the core game sold 5 times better for twice as long
lets try with the fact , that if HoT was a success, you would need at least 100.000 players in maguma every day, every hour
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them thereThat’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
if you cant see the problem with that…
anyway, PoF will show , who was right
i doubt they will sell more than 500kFirst of all, I don’t think you should make statements you can’t support. How do you know most casual players don’t suppor the game with money at all? How do you know the percentage of casuals who support the game with real money has significantly changed at all.
PoF won’t show who was right. There are a million reasons why a game can success or fail. In either case it’s unlikely we’ll know how many copies sold. Anything we come up with is guess work.
It’s okay to have an opinion. Make stating unprovable stuff as fact is not the way to go about backing it up.
this forum is mostly about opinions, since that is the only way the devs can get feedback
facts? do you want me to prove , that most people wont pay for something, that they can get for FREE?
lets try with the fact, that the devs have said the expansion was “underperforming”
lets try with the fact, that the core game sold 5 times better for twice as long
lets try with the fact , that if HoT was a success, you would need at least 100.000 players in maguma every day, every hour
Devs have said free to play players didn’t buy the expansion in the numbers they expected. Not that it was underperforming which has a different connotation.
The core game may have sold much better But that could be evidence of a lot of things. For example, there may have been so many people that disliked the core game that they left ages ago and weren’t interested in coming back for the expac. In which case the core game would be directly to blame for the expansion not doing well.
No idea about your last point as it makes no sense at all.
You’re so desperate to prove your point that you’re drawing conclusions. We all no the game was wildly successful at launch, but most people also know there was a huge drop off when ascended weapons were first introduced and I know for a fact a lot of people saw no end game and left. Those people might not have given this game another try.
So what evidence do you have that this hard core/casual split is the reason HoT hasn’t done well.. It’s entirely possible that hard core players left ages ago and never came back and if the game had more hard core content at launch we’d have more people.
I’m not saying that IS the case, but it’s certainly a possibility. You believe something to be true, but that doesn’t make it true. Confirmation bias is a real thing.
You can’t possibly know that HOT didn’t do well because of perceived hard core content, or casuals not buying it,, nor can you know casuals aren’t spending money on the game anymore.
Arguably, most people left playing the game before HoT were casuals and most of them would have bought them game before they knew how hard it was anyway because that’s what most MMO players do.
The fact that sales are low implies that casuals didn’t exist in enough numbers to keep the game going.
lets try with the fact, that the devs have said the expansion was “underperforming”
They never said that the expansion was “underperforming”, they said that the amount of free players converting to Heart of Thorns was low. Hint: maybe the problem is with Core Tyria and not Heart of Thorns.
lets try with the fact, that the core game sold 5 times better for twice as long
The Core game wasn’t free to play. Before the move to free to play the Heroic Edition of the game was selling more than Heart of Thorns is now.
Before free to play, in order to try the game, they had to pay. Now they do it for free, and don’t pay afterwards, this tells us that the problem of revenue and sales is with the core game, not with Heart of Thorns.
Maybe because it’s too easy and people are getting bored?
lets try with the fact , that if HoT was a success, you would need at least 100.000 players in maguma every day, every hour
You’d need full maps and enough players to complete all the meta events, which you do.
So all your “facts” aren’t facts.
i know this is a niche title now
but it sure as hell didnt start that way
and im pretty sure Anet and ncsoft didnt want another one of those
remember what happened to CoX? i do….
fact is: all mmos need some bread&butter content
look how WoW is doing , after they stopped making theirs
i know this is a niche title now
but it sure as hell didnt start that way
and im pretty sure Anet and ncsoft didnt want another one of those
remember what happened to CoX? i do….
fact is: all mmos need some bread&butter content
look how WoW is doing , after they stopped making theirs
This was always a niche title. It sold a lot at launch because of hype and a lot of people left the game within months, for different reasons. You’re confusing initial sales with whether a game is niche or not.
But this game has never really appealed to the main stream.
…and casual players wont jump through all those hoops for some new pixels
Then they won’t get those pixels. You shouldn’t use the word casual there though, as there are loads of “casual” players that have no trouble with HoT. You are being unfair to them
lol, ive seen this problem in pretty much every mmo i have ever played
it always ends up the same way: fewer players=lesser content=even fewer
players etc.
lets hope those “loads” of “casuals” will be enough to carry this game forward
it feels good to be back in Tyria, and by some miracle i have actually unlocked druid
spec (waste of time and effort)
ill prolly just take the rest of my toons to straits of devastation and leave them thereThat’s not a problem, that’s the natural evolution of MMO’s. No one has changed that evolution because no one has made a dynamic world yet.
Lots of casual players support this game and do what they need to do to get things done. I think that you need to gain a healthy sense of who this game is made for and what kind of person plays it. The game was made for casual play, it’s sustained for 5 years … I think any idea that it won’t be continued to be supported by casual players, even after the HoT expansion and raid focus is not an accurate view.
and most of the current casual players dont support the game with any money at all
Really? Based on what? You’re going to make a definitive statement, then immediately retract by saying it’s an expression of your opinion? I guess if you want to engage in thoughtless rants, that’s how you do it.
Well, what I said isn’t opinion. The game is focused on what we understand as casual players … and the fact it’s still here being developed after 5 years gives a more than neutral impression that this business model has worked for them. You have nothing more than speculation that the game is less than what Anet wanted it to be.
The only thing that proves if GW2 continues to be ‘successful’ is if it continues to be developed … and so far, despite the negative spin you want to put on the game, it’s done that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Best advice is to kill things as you go along and not run through them. Raptors will eat you alive if you try. If you pull too many things you will die. Take it easy and learn each enemy and you will live.
That’s the problem. NPC density is insane and they all have slow/stun/charge mechanics that make going from one objective to another a real chore.
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