Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

Edit: First and foremost if there is any content that people are struggling with I will be more than happy to answer questions here. This is a response to all the threads calling for nerfs without speculation on the impact this will have on the game or even a real understanding on how this game works. It is absolutely absurd to me that people find this content to be difficult so discuss, ask questions, but please do not be rude or you’ll have to answer to me. If you are struggling seek the resources you need to overcome these challenges. Blatant complaining is backwards progressive to yourself and the community.

It’s my opinion that all HoT content is simply way too easy. I hear claims that maps are empty and that events can not be solo’d. This simply is not true. Maps are alive with constant activity and if you even have the slightest clue as to what you are doing you will find it is really no trouble at all. People have this expectation that casual content is equal to mindless content and this is simply not true. Casual content means it is content that you can do at your own pace. There’s no rush, literally.

It is true, that HoT is against solo players… but let me ask you this: Why are you playing a MMO with the intent of being 100% solo? This has nothing to do with being “casual.” I mean what else in Central Tyria is solo-able besides the outdated exploration? With the addition of HoT random mobs we’re given mechanics that you NEED to pay attention to. If you stand still while fighting snipers with a giant target over your head…. You’re going to have a bad time. I’m sorry if you consider this “not casual” and had the expectation of spamming 1 and literally destroying mobs.

If you think the meta events are too challenging you should definitely check out some of the pre-HoT meta events such as triple trouble. HoT meta events are literally the most mindless events I have ever seen. It’s nearly impossible to fail. I can understand if you refuse to use an outside source timer such as dulfy’s timer though and you end up missing every meta. I mean why would someone who is casual do that?

Let’s talking raiding. So, you’re playing a MMO yet you don’t want to associate with others. You can’t be bothered to actually learn how to play your class to its maximum potential. I mean, you’re casual of course! So, let’s look at the options. I can think of three off the top of my head. You can opt out of raiding, losing out on rewards such as legendary armor that is nonexistent and entirely speculation. You can do an hour or two of research and apply to a few guilds searching for raiders. Or you can come to the forums and post a thread on how raiding should be removed immediately despite the little effect it has on your own personal gameplay. I’d personally suggest one or two, but you know, the game needs to stay casual friendly.

Let’s talk sPvP and how it has become “e-sports.” I really don’t have much to say here. So, they decided to add in some in-game recognition where basically every casual alive can achieve diamond rank, but those who can not be bothered to learn strategy or play their class correctly seem to struggle. Rather than asking for advice, or seeking outside resources they opt to come to the forums and complain about their reality check. I mean come on! Shouldn’t the max rank in sPvP be rewarded to everyone??? I thought this game was casual friendly, not e-sports! /cry

What’s the point of gaming when everything requires thought processes and critical thinking! Isn’t the main point of gaming to instantly blow through content on the easiest settings? If you play Elder Scrolls and you’re not turning the difficulty down all the way then you’re doing it wrong (sarcasm.) All you asking for nerfs, do you really think this will help with the longitivtiy of the game if everything can be achieved instantly? I bought this expansion around three weeks ago. I blew through the story in two days. I got 100% map completion before week one was over. What is not casual about this? I do not understand. Y’all need a little more challenge in your life. GW1 was solid gold for its time. This… this is brainless content with the hopes that they will release something somewhat challenging.

This post is sort of a joke, sort of not. I simply do not want to see the future of the game I’ve been playing since GW1 Prophecies release nerfed into some hello kitty island adventure.

The one thing I can agree on is raiding. Raiding is not casual, but it is not unachievable. It requires effort. A solution to this would be the release of a easy-mode raid with massive reward reductions. I enjoy raiding, I am glad they added it into the game, but every reward needs to be accessible to noobs. No need to call for the removal of it though. Trust me, more than 1% of the player-base is able to down these bosses.

Thanks, and remember, this is mainly a joke regarding all the threads calling for nerfs. The goal is for GW2 to gradually increase in difficulty, not decrease.

Yes, HoT needs to be harder. I was sad when Chark Gerrent was nerfed to easy mode.

Malediktus.9250:

Yes, HoT needs to be harder. I was sad when Chark Gerrent was nerfed to easy mode.

I mean, it’d be nice to see failure once… just once… 100% success rates are so boring.

Avarice.2791:

Malediktus.9250:

Yes, HoT needs to be harder. I was sad when Chark Gerrent was nerfed to easy mode.

I mean, it’d be nice to see failure once… just once… 100% success rates are so boring.

The worst thing is Chark Gerrent is so easy now that even on the most casual random maps everyone knows what to do and kills him in 2 phases, making it very hard to get the achievements.

You want to know what I don’t understand? How do casuals not complain about these ridiculous adventures.They’re fun to do occasionally but it is ridiculous that mastery points are gated behind them.

Avarice.2791:

You want to know what I don’t understand? How do casuals not complain about these ridiculous adventures.They’re fun to do occasionally but it is ridiculous that mastery points are gated behind them.

There are loads of threads about adventures too. And some of them are ridiculous for non-casuals too. You can be a pro raider and finish the second wing and still miss some adventure golds… usually the adventures with RNG are the worst offenders.

maddoctor.2738:

Avarice.2791:

You want to know what I don’t understand? How do casuals not complain about these ridiculous adventures.They’re fun to do occasionally but it is ridiculous that mastery points are gated behind them.

There are loads of threads about adventures too. And some of them are ridiculous for non-casuals too. You can be a pro raider and finish the second wing and still miss some adventure golds… usually the adventures with RNG are the worst offenders.

Fortunately, in order to max all masteries, they would only have to do five adventures now. I’m sure once LS picks back up, the number will drop even more.

Every time I go to TD, I see people whining about not having 15+ per lane. I remember doing it with ~5 the first month. The problem with difficulty is scaling, which isn’t 1:1 because when it is, the zerg fails hard, as seen with the Shatterer’s pre-nerf break bar. Without fair scaling however, you simply bring more people for an easier time. Since people can’t handle the content, everything is seen as zerg or group (solo) content. Personally though, I wouldn’t want fair scaling because I wouldn’t want to fail simply because the zerg showed up, which was the problem with the original Gerent. I’d rather carry them, which is impossible to do fully now that ArenaNet tries to split everyone up.

From my perspective, if HoT was meant to be group content, it’s far too easy. Most of the events simply don’t feel like group events. imo, they were only labeled as such because they knew the average player wouldn’t be able to solo them, which is the rule of regular events.

Avarice.2791:

A solution to this would be the release of a easy-mode raid with massive reward reductions.

Coming from a raiding guild’s perspective from other MMOs, the only purpose of raids in GW2 is to sell the game to that audience. Back at launch, without raids, people simply didn’t know what to do, so they quit. ArenaNet’s trying to tap back into that and it did work for a bit. I doubt making multiple versions is worth the resources, because the goal is to provide that content at a minimal cost. I also wouldn’t count on seeing more than 1 raid per expansion.

Healix.5819:

Coming from a raiding guild’s perspective from other MMOs, the only purpose of raids in GW2 is to sell the game to that audience. Back at launch, without raids, people simply didn’t know what to do, so they quit. ArenaNet’s trying to tap back into that and it did work for a bit. I doubt making multiple versions is worth the resources, because the goal is to provide that content at a minimal cost. I also wouldn’t count on seeing more than 1 raid per expansion.

To be fair, even GW1 had raids although they were less “formal.” I am 100% for raiding and a week into HoT I made it my mission to find a raiding guild. Two weeks in to HoT I got a full clear through wing one. The vast majority of MMO’s have some sort of raiding even if it isn’t labeled as that. It’s simply been defined by the MMO community as PvE end content.

I was simply saying for people who only have interest in easy content a good compromise would a sort of LFR raid where composition and skill really doesn’t matter. Legendary armor becomes obtainable to those who are complaining although I believe it should take a tenfold amount of time it would take to participate in regular raiding.

I will admit raiding is not “casual friendly” but this isn’t the purpose of my thread though ^.^ I’m simply tired of seeing all these “I PRESS 1 A LOT AND CONTENT IS TOOOO HARD” threads.

This is the monster you’ve created.

Will you continue to dump more and more resources into extremely short lived content for what appears to be a significantly smaller player base?

You have to know there’s no such thing as permanent content for hard core players.

Tumult.2578:

This is the monster you’ve created.

Will you continue to dump more and more resources into extremely short lived content for what appears to be a significantly smaller player base?

You have to know there’s no such thing as permanent content for hard core players.

I believe the opposite. Content that is challenging will last longer than content that is hand delivered to you in a basket. What causes a game to be “short lived” are the massive nerfs that the minority is calling for. Stating that this content appeals to a significantly smaller player base is made-up speculation. People with complaints are usually the loudest voice while people who are content are quiet. Game forums are never a good gauge to view how the community feels about something.

Even casuals will run out of things to do once everything is achievable and then eventually quit. Players who stick around will typically lose this casual feeling as they become progressively better at this game. What nerfs do is cater to the temporary community that is short-lived while the people who have been participating in Tyria activities since 2005 feel screwed.

Healix.5819:

From my perspective, if HoT was meant to be group content, it’s far too easy. Most of the events simply don’t feel like group events. imo, they were only labeled as such because they knew the average player wouldn’t be able to solo them, which is the rule of regular events.

What defines easy v. hard? Failure chance? How does ANet address the fact that failure often generates conflict (blaming)?

Where on the skill continuum must the line be drawn? If a given player is at the 98th percentile in skill, where does the line have to be for the event to be hard for that player? If the line must be at his/her level, does that exclude 97% of the player-base? ANet “likes” large-scale content. In order to foster that type of play, most of the rewards are behind that kind of content, which means that a large segment of the player-base wants both to take part and to succeed.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the existence of hard content. However, the design considerations are more complex than some posters seem to think they should be.

My take on GW2 with regard to challenge is that the open events should be geared towards the 50th %ile, and raids to the 90th. There’s enough room in open events for some players below the 50th to succeed if there are enough above. I’m disappointed, though, that raids are as accessible as they are. I think they should have been the scratching post for the challenge itch, not just the poster child for marketing.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What defines easy v. hard? Failure chance? How does ANet address the fact that failure often generates conflict (blaming)?

Where on the skill continuum must the line be drawn? If a given player is at the 98th percentile in skill, where does the line have to be for the event to be hard for that player? If the line must be at his/her level, does that exclude 97% of the player-base? ANet “likes” large-scale content. In order to foster that type of play, most of the rewards are behind that kind of content, which means that a large segment of the player-base wants both to take part and to succeed.

I would say success/fail rates do play a major role in the definition of challenging content but it is not a game producer’s job to baby the players who are blamed for failed content. I understand that “safe spaces” are a huge things in the world with the Internet being what it is but people need to get thicker skin. If you are not failing then you are not learning and knowledge is everything. If you mess up, correct it. If you are unable to complete a mechanic then figure out why! I wouldn’t say content is gated by anywhere near 98/97%. In this games current state I would speculate that the vast majority is able to complete everything outside of high level fractals/raids. In this game’s current state the only thing that is really gated behind challenging content is the speculation of legendary armor, and I agree this shouldn’t be a thing, although there needs to be an exclusive reward system for raiding. Like a said above I believe a nerfed down raid difficulty with massive reward nerfs would be a fantastic compromise.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the existence of hard content. However, the design considerations are more complex than some posters seem to think they should be.

It goes both ways and this is why I decided to start this thread. People seem to complain without knowledge of what they are actually talking about. They put 10 minutes into Verdant Brink and they call for nerfs. Dudes, figure out why you are unable to complete content that hundreds of thousands of players have completed before you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

My take on GW2 with regard to challenge is that the open events should be geared towards the 50th %ile, and raids to the 90th. There’s enough room in open events for some players below the 50th to succeed if there are enough above. I’m disappointed, though, that raids are as accessible as they are. I think they should have been the scratching post for the challenge itch, not just the poster child for marketing.

The thing is, the open events are literally geared towards 100% of the community in its current state. You would have to be completely new to MMO’s to not be able to participate in HoT meta events. I could of easily did this when I was 12. What does this say about 40-50 year olds who are complaining. I agree with raids and I think the only solution is duel difficulties where the harder difficulty provides much higher rewards.

I don’t have a problem when the game first come out, maps are full of people, and I have 10 hours a day to burn.

But now when I play 30 minutes a day, I log in, hard to get any thing done, get frustrated solo, can’t find people, and log out.

laokoko.7403:

I don’t have a problem when the game first come out, maps are full of people, and I have 10 hours a day to burn.

But now when I play 30 minutes a day, I log in, hard to get any thing done, get frustrated solo, can’t find people, and log out.

Are you sure? I’ve been playing for the past three hours on Auric Basin and Dragon’s Stand. When I started off in Auric Basic it was about 40 minutes prior to the challenges and the map had two tags running events and another running a HP train. Stayed there till the meta then immediately went to Dragon’s Stand about 12 minutes prior to the Meta beginning. There was already a squad there with about 50 people grouped up waiting.

Yesterday evening (about 3 hours from now) I was on Verdant Brink (about 30 minutes prior to nightfall) trying to complete the Adventures. Map chat was alive and there was two separate groups getting the outpost metas done.

I’m going to be real with you though. I think the major reason you are finding unhappiness in this game is due to the fact that you only have 30 minutes a day to play. Nerfing content won’t fix this. That sort of schedule does not really work with this game and it really won’t work in any MMO. MMO’s are very time demanding with the assumption that when you play you play for at least an hour or two. It’s extremely difficult to develop content that caters to the player who has less than an hour to play.

Avarice.2791:

laokoko.7403:

I don’t have a problem when the game first come out, maps are full of people, and I have 10 hours a day to burn.

But now when I play 30 minutes a day, I log in, hard to get any thing done, get frustrated solo, can’t find people, and log out.

Are you sure? I’ve been playing for the past three hours on Auric Basin and Dragon’s Stand. When I started off in Auric Basic it was about 40 minutes prior to the challenges and the map had two tags running events and another running a HP train. Stayed there till the meta then immediately went to Dragon’s Stand about 12 minutes prior to the Meta beginning. There was already a squad there with about 50 people grouped up waiting.

Yesterday evening (about 3 hours from now) I was on Verdant Brink (about 30 minutes prior to nightfall) trying to complete the Adventures. Map chat was alive and there was two separate groups getting the outpost metas done.

I’m going to be real with you though. I think the major reason you are finding unhappiness in this game is due to the fact that you only have 30 minutes a day to play. That sort of schedule does not really work with this game and it really won’t work in any MMO. MMO’s are very time demanding with the assumption that when you play you play for at least an hour or two. It’s extremely difficult to develop content that caters to the player who has less than an hour to play.

I’m just trying to do map completion or just some hero’s points.

You are precisely right, if you find a HP train you can get everything done. But what if you don’t find a train?

In the old GW2 I can just login and do map completion any time I want. Now on the new maps, there isn’t much I can do in a short time spam.

Basically, all I’m saying is you can’t just logon and play. If you are telling me that’s how it suppose to be, I’m fine with it.

Also, the maps is really empty at off peak time. I don’t know why. Either because the game can’t even fill a map or two at off peak time. Or the mega server isn’t doing a good job at merging the maps.

It may just be bad RNG with server placement but usually they close when the population gets too low… Sometimes they close when they shouldn’t :P

I understand what you are saying though and it’s simply luck if you are able to accomplish what you set out to do with only 30 minutes to play. They upped the reward of HP’s so I understand why they upped the difficulty. I would still think you’d be able to get map competition eventually though. It took me about 10-12 hours so that’s kitten near month for you >.<

I disagree though that you can’t just log on and play. There’s a very small window where there isn’t some Meta event starting. You can find the timers here:

http://dulfy.net/2015/11/09/gw2-hot-maps-timer-famme/

Besides that there is a lot of other content to do which could potentially be completed in 30 minute segments. It is honestly not realistic though to play this game for that short of a time.

Avarice.2791:

What is not casual about this? I do not understand. Y’all need a little more challenge in your life.

As a general response to this thread – I think one gaming became casual when gamers grew up. There’s a point a lot of us reach where we still love gaming, but feel like we’ve gotten as good at video games as we need or care to be, and don’t enjoy anything that demands more from us.

Jahroots.6791:

As a general response to this thread – I think one gaming became casual when gamers grew up. There’s a point a lot of us reach where we still love gaming, but feel like we’ve gotten as good at video games as we need or care to be, and don’t enjoy anything that demands more from us.

I understand and agree. I’m still in my 20’s so I’m not quite there but I can understand not wanted to dedicate 3-6 hours a week to raiding. This is the only thing I see though when it comes to content that is too difficult. When I see threads calling for blanket nerfs over HoT because content is just “too frustrating!” and the entire OP is written in horrible grammer/spelling/structure I can’t help but think that it’s some kid whining. Everything is possible and relatively low challenge in this game given time. Time is the factor and nerfing will not fix this.

op i like your original post and it echos my thought entirely. i posted in another thread a few weeks ago with a person saying it was too hard and he seemed atr first to want to know why. so i went in how i changed some stuff up on my character cause my main was the same as his his reply was i want to use the same gear and same skillset that i use everywhere else. i tried to explain change it up til you got a sense what the monsters are doing and how to avoid them. he just didn’t want to play any different style or try to learn to play better cause im first to admit when i first tried hot i thought crap thats hard but i changed my style and way to play and now i find it relatively easy. i call it learn to play and i think those who are calling for Nerf don’t want to learn. as for hot it made me a better player more aware of my surroundings the way a game should be

The content in GW2/HoT really isn’t even that restricting to a certain play-style either. You can pretty much use whatever weapon you want with whatever stats you want and get away with doing 90% of the content. Meta builds and optimization is really only important when aiming towards raids/high-level sPvP. Even the builds and classes you bring to raid compositions can vary so much which is rare in a 10 man group.

I agree, when you play a game you are suppose to gradually become better. If you refuse to play then it will not happen. If you are on a limited schedule then it will happen slowly, but it should happen. The skill ceiling is extremely low in this game when comparing to other MMO’s. (Excluding raids/spvp)

I would absolutely love to see someone who finds HoT challenging to try and play through GW1.

I just got the HP on VB done. Anet really nerfed a bunch of HP in VB. Don’t even need to fight at most of it.

The population is alright at this time of day. I can actually find maps which is doing events.

I played at off time yesterday. It is really frustrating. The adventure is always lock, and things you needs groups can’t be done.

I also vote for a buff !

…i was really shocked..when i wanted to test my new build…and i only saw 2 enemies….and the others were like 3km far away…i was walking..and walking..found 1 monster..again walking…2 monster…..where were the 20 monster that i saw before?

later i found out it change at night x) ….but still…it was a shock finding it too easy…..but still a fair solution for people who want it easy..and people who want have a fun challange……..but the best solution would be a hardmode like in gw1…there are hardmode megaserver..and normalmode megaserver \(^.^)/

moony.5780:

but the best solution would be a hardmode like in gw1…there are hardmode megaserver..and normalmode megaserver \(^.^)/

That is an intriguing idea, I wonder if this game has the population to support that. That would be so much work on their side.

Avarice.2791:

moony.5780:

but the best solution would be a hardmode like in gw1…there are hardmode megaserver..and normalmode megaserver \(^.^)/

That is an intriguing idea, I wonder if this game has the population to support that. That would be so much work on their side.

i have here a full thread going on about solutions for both parties to be happy..especially regarding open world maybe u wanna check it out

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Casual-Hardcore-Problem-solution/page/3#post6033313

and..i think if this game have the population to teleport a party in 5 different maps that r all kinda full it should not be a problem to make 1 a hardcoremode one

and y..it would mean a lot of work…but at the same time it will build up a great base for everyone to be happy…so gw2 will attract much more people..and there will be less leaver bcs the game is too hard or too low..bcs everyone can choose his/her favorite playmode……also if its applied in central tyria..people can get step by step used to hardmore …like in gw1…so its not either 100% difficult..not 100% easy..but also there r maps inbetween

The only issue I see is the fact that hardmode would have to give increased rewards to make it appealing and this would still gate the casual community from “unfairness.” The hardcore community wants increased difficulty but they also want something to show for it. Raiding would be a hell of a lot less appealing if there were no achievements or rewards. The same would go with a hardmode server and I believe this would increasingly sever the casual community from this game.

I think the larger issue is the amount of time a casual player has to put into this game, but then again, how do you design an effective MMO that doesn’t require endless amounts of time? It’s this lack of understanding that drives me crazy when casuals call for nerfs. The casual player needs to understand that if he can only put in 30 minutes a day then he will be severe disadvantage when comparing to the player that puts in 5-15 hours a day, and this is the way it should be. This game (Or any online game) would not be appealing if the player who plays 30 minutes on average a day was rewarded the same as the person who lives in his mom’s basement and plays 15 hours a day. You can’t punish the dedicated gamer.

Avarice.2791:

I think the larger issue is the amount of time a casual player has to put into this game, but then again, how do you design an effective MMO that doesn’t require endless amounts of time? It’s this lack of understanding that drives me crazy when casuals call for nerfs. The casual player needs to understand that if he can only put in 30 minutes a day then he will be severe disadvantage when comparing to the player that puts in 5-15 hours a day, and this is the way it should be. This game (Or any online game) would not be appealing if the player who plays 30 minutes on average a day was rewarded the same as the person who lives in his mom’s basement and plays 15 hours a day. You can’t punish the dedicated gamer.

Casual in MMOs is really less about play time than play style. A casual can spend hours at a time wandering in maps, gathering from nodes, doing the odd event here and there, that sort of thing.

This type of player generally doesn’t want to read meta build guides, watch video tutorials, or consult 3rd party websites just to figure out the best time to play specific content. Lots of people just want to log in and get right to the action. Unfortunately HoT is designed in a way that doesn’t really allow this, and naturally people are dissatisfied. As I mentioned earlier, there’s a threshold for effort that just takes all the fun out of playing and makes it seem almost like a job.

Jahroots.6791:

Casual in MMOs is really less about play time than play style. A casual can spend hours at a time wandering in maps, gathering from nodes, doing the odd event here and there, that sort of thing.

This type of player generally doesn’t want to read meta build guides, watch video tutorials, or consult 3rd party websites just to figure out the best time to play specific content. Lots of people just want to log in and get right to the action. Unfortunately HoT is designed in a way that doesn’t really allow this, and naturally people are dissatisfied. As I mentioned earlier, there’s a threshold for effort that just takes all the fun out of playing and makes it seem almost like a job.

I actually, respectfully, disagree. A casual player is not one who refuses to better himself or eventually use outside sources to better his performance. That is a ridiculous line of thought. What kind of a gamer is like “I’m going to play this game but I have no ambition in becoming better in relation to the time I put into it.” Eventually you’re going to find your way to metabattle, use outside sources as guides, etc.

As for being able to jump straight into content. This is literally the game for that. Quick open up the timers, oh DS is up in 10 minutes, travel there. Bam. Travel to Auric Basin and you’ll always see pylon event groups. Travel to Verdant Brink and I guarentee there are people working on outposts. Want to run a fractal? There’s 20 groups posting throughout the difficulties. Want to do WvW? Invest in a T1/T2 server. There is always something going on there. Want to play some PvP? It’s as simple as a 60 second que timer. My point is eventually you’re going to learn how this works no matter how casual you are. What holds a casual player back is the time commitment to do these things. Some things in this game are up to 2-3 hours of time commitment. This isn’t possible for one who can’t spend more than an hour a day doing this content. The most progressive content is saved for the user who is able to put the most time into it… at least for the most part.

I understand that a lot of content is gated by time, but I can guarantee you can always instantly hop into action. The fact that content IS gated by time further proves my point that a casual is one who can not make a proper time commitment to this game.

Avarice.2791:

I actually, respectfully, disagree. A casual player is not one who refuses to better himself or eventually use outside sources to better his performance. That is a ridiculous line of thought. What kind of a gamer is like “I’m going to play this game but I have no ambition in becoming better in relation to the time I put into it.” Eventually you’re going to find your way to metabattle, use outside sources as guides, etc.

Fair points, but I suppose we have fundamentally different definitions of casual. The term ‘casual’, as it applies to various activities – gaming, sports…sex, to me implies an interest in the immediate activity, without any real commitment or serious effort. I don’t propose that casual players don’t want to get better, but that they are not willing to do as much as their hardcore counterparts. It’s great that we have all of these additional resources, but I see it as a minor flaw in the game design that so much content absolutely requires their use.

Consider that we all play for vastly different reasons. Me? I’m a fashion kitten. I will do just about whatever it takes to get the skins I need to complete my characters’ looks. And it hasn’t been easy, I had to became ‘hardcore’ for pretty ‘casual’ reasons – just to play dress up. Some people are more goal oriented and get satisfaction from overcoming challenges, while many are simply content to play and talk with other people. For the latter category learning, adapting and improving can have relatively little value.

It’s a commonly held view that ‘real’ gamers enjoy being challenged, but I disagree with this. I’ve been a huge RPG nerd for almost twenty years and have never cared much about difficulty. I’m perfectly willing to try, but generally combat and activities just need to be challenging enough to keep me engaged. If I’m playing a rogue I want to feel like one. Sneaking around and stabbing kitten. Really getting into character.

Avarice.2791:

As for being able to jump straight into content. This is literally the game for that. Quick open up the timers, oh DS is up in 10 minutes, travel there. Bam. Travel to Auric Basin and you’ll always see pylon event groups. Travel to Verdant Brink and I guarentee there are people working on outposts. Want to run a fractal? There’s 20 groups posting throughout the difficulties. Want to do WvW? Invest in a T1/T2 server. There is always something going on there. Want to play some PvP? It’s as simple as a 60 second que timer. My point is eventually you’re going to learn how this works no matter how casual you are. What holds a casual player back is the time commitment to do these things. Some things in this game are up to 2-3 hours of time commitment. This isn’t possible for one who can’t spend more than an hour a day doing this content. The most progressive content is saved for the user who is able to put the most time into it… at least for the most part.

This has not been my experience. Many others have posted complaints about it as well. The only map-wide meta that is consistently available, round the clock is in the Silverwastes.

Your last point is correct though. Play more → get more is perfectly reasonable.

Jahroots.6791:

Consider that we all play for vastly different reasons. Me? I’m a fashion kitten. I will do just about whatever it takes to get the skins I need to complete my characters’ looks. And it hasn’t been easy, I had to became ‘hardcore’ for pretty ‘casual’ reasons – just to play dress up. Some people are more goal oriented and get satisfaction from overcoming challenges, while many are simply content to play and talk with other people. For the latter category learning, adapting and improving can have relatively little value.

Fashion can still be viewed as both “hardcore” and “casual” in my eyes. You can get that 100g look, or you can drop around 3k on a nice weapon. (Assuming we translated time into actual price.) I understand that players don’t want to become “hardcore” to achieve something but there always has to be something just slightly out of reach. Nothing would hold rarity if it was easily gained. If no goals are set then what’s the point? Would you really want that legendary if everyone else had it? (Maybe I’m greedy lol :P)

This may not be appealing to the casual gamer who plays off and on (As they will always have something to do) but I believe Anet needs to be loyal to it’s committed population as well. Eventually you will run out of things to do! This is why time consumption is a huge factor in a MMO.

Jahroots.6791:

This has not been my experience. Many others have posted complaints about it as well. The only map-wide meta that is consistently available, round the clock is in the Silverwastes.

I think the reasoning for this is the fact that people do not understand how HoT fundamentally works. Once you have it figured out it’s easy. It’s just a matter of figuring everything out. I can literally find endless events when I go in a HoT map.

Overall I hear you though. You don’t want to deal with challenging content. You want to go to a HoT map to do what you want to do. You don’t want to stress out over having that sniper target over your head. To a casual gamer this is a “watch tv and do what I want” game. I just believe there needs to be balance and the nerfs have already made HoT content soooo simple.

Although the OPs’ post was tongue in cheek, if Anet even considers buffing HoT, it will just hasten the games demise. Of course some of OPs’ responses insult and ridicule others who challenge and disagree.
Time for the mods to lock and/or delete the thread since it offers nothing.

The ones who say HoT is easy are the ones who are actually playing with others. HoT is solable to a point, I know as i did all the maps (minus the Meta and Champs) on my Mesmer and Necro alone. And its not easy, takes a long time, but it IS interesting…the first few times you do it.

to the comments ‘Why play an MMO solo’, because solo play is fun too. And there isnt always a group availble, so sometimes you have to resort to playing alone. Does this mean all content needs to be solable? no. But there is a lot of content that needs to be toned down, specifically areas that have 20+ Mobs where it just doesn’t make sense to have that kinda setup.

But I think the main issue with HoT, its not like the Classic core of the game at all. Just about every aspect of HoT is completely different. Its like a whole other type of game.

sirsquishy.8531:

The ones who say HoT is easy are the ones who are actually playing with others. HoT is solable to a point, I know as i did all the maps (minus the Meta and Champs) on my Mesmer and Necro alone. And its not easy, takes a long time, but it IS interesting…the first few times you do it.

to the comments ‘Why play an MMO solo’, because solo play is fun too. And there isnt always a group availble, so sometimes you have to resort to playing alone. Does this mean all content needs to be solable? no. But there is a lot of content that needs to be toned down, specifically areas that have 20+ Mobs where it just doesn’t make sense to have that kinda setup.

But I think the main issue with HoT, its not like the Classic core of the game at all. Just about every aspect of HoT is completely different. Its like a whole other type of game.

Admittedly, I’m very new and have only played thief to 80 so far. It may be that this class has a particular advantage over most classes with regard to survivability, but it sure didn’t seem that way to me initially. The forums also seem to be in agreement that berserker thief is a “glass cannon” with among the poorest survivability.

But after unlocking my elite spec and some of the masteries (glider masteries, bouncing mushrooms, etc.) and going through an evolution of build tweaks, sigil/rune combinations, adding a backup weapon set, and just practicing different approaches to fighting the various enemies of the jungle I’ve become very hard to kill and I can clear many of the objectives solo or comfortably hold out killing enemies indefinitely until other players arrive to speed things along. Veterans usually aren’t a problem, even in groups and even some champions I can either beat myself or start fighting them and other players show up before I can finish them off.

I just figure if the least survivable class can survive and even thrive enough to roam freely and comfortably, start most events by themselves, and benefit from other players rather than requiring them for basic survival, then most classes probably have a way to do the same.

But then again, this could be a matter of perspective. Maybe what’s “comfortable” to me isn’t so much for you. I’m not sure what can be done about that (but I’m certain you have some ideas!). Ultimately, every player is going to want what works out best for them. For me, HoT is perfect so far. I ran smack into that wall, took a step back, and then vaulted over it using this game’s excellent combat and trait system. I could scarcely be more pleased with these maps and the overall experience so far. I think I’m hooked!

I wish everyone could be so fortunate in their experience without it seeming like one person’s enjoyment comes at the expense of another’s. What can ya do?

Blude.6812:

Although the OPs’ post was tongue in cheek, if Anet even considers buffing HoT, it will just hasten the games demise. Of course some of OPs’ responses insult and ridicule others who challenge and disagree.
Time for the mods to lock and/or delete the thread since it offers nothing.

Okay, this is the kind of discussion I disagree with. Tell me, on which response did I insult and ridicule? This thread has been entirely justified discussion. The mods will not lock this because I have every right to express my opinion as you do. You state “buffing HoT will hasted the games demise.” You need to back up your claim. I believe the exact opposite. If content is nerfed to the ground then players will eventually run out of content. This game needs to increase with difficulty as time goes by and they need to back this up with increases in our abilities. (Ex. Elite Specs)

sirsquishy.8531:

The ones who say HoT is easy are the ones who are actually playing with others. HoT is solable to a point, I know as i did all the maps (minus the Meta and Champs) on my Mesmer and Necro alone. And its not easy, takes a long time, but it IS interesting…the first few times you do it.

to the comments ‘Why play an MMO solo’, because solo play is fun too. And there isnt always a group availble, so sometimes you have to resort to playing alone. Does this mean all content needs to be solable? no. But there is a lot of content that needs to be toned down, specifically areas that have 20+ Mobs where it just doesn’t make sense to have that kinda setup.

But I think the main issue with HoT, its not like the Classic core of the game at all. Just about every aspect of HoT is completely different. Its like a whole other type of game.

Of course HoT is for the most part, solo-able. So many people have accomplished this. Of course champs will require waiting around for 1-2 others to show, but this comes with increased reward.

Here’s the thing. MMO’s are built on the ideology of fellowship. These are meant to be social games outside of your personal story line. GW2 created a MMO that allowed casual players to have limited participation in social activities though. (Ex. Events) The truth is that you will be extremely limited in this game if you refuse to associate with others. This goes for pretty much every MMO. You need other players to make the game work.

The main issue that players do not see, is that HoT does not include all the additional features that the core games have. There’s a story line. There is exploration/adventures. There is raiding. There are meta events. Each of these features, minus story line, requires teamwork and working together. It doesn’t mean you have to get on a personal basis with each other, but every once in awhile you may have to open up that LFG panel, or sit around for a few minutes until someone else shows up.

I agree with OP completely. I hate that HoT will be getting more nerfs, and I’m afraid it’s going to become nothing more than an Orr champ train completely. I also blame te ridiculous Megaserver system for failing get players into more populated maps. I once had my party split into 4 seperate instance of verdant brink, no joke, no lies. It’s part of the reason the maps seem so empty unless you get a champ train.

Unfortunately this game has no learning curve, it has learning walls, it doesn’t teach you or show you how to deal with tough situations and how to tackle them in Open world PvE in a rewarding way. In addition, the PvE community has been conditioned has the train mentality that nothing should get in the way of their Rewards. I’m really just starting to think most players would be happy with a button they just press to get loot.

@TheLastNobody

I couldn’t agree with you more. Take a second and think about the last time you’ve failed a meta event? In the three weeks I’ve been playing this game I’ve done AB about 25 times, TD, about 3-4 times, DS about 20 times, and VB 3-4 times. I have never failed an event! I have never missed out on an event as well if I was there prior to the event starting. There are fantastic timers that help out with that.

This game hardly even requires your attention in its current state. HoT did a good job in improving that with specific mob mechanics, but it’s pretty ridiculous to be calling for nerfs on events that never fail.

I believe there is a learning curve, although the ceiling cap on the game is extremely low. You enter VB for the first time. You see a target over your head for a few seconds. Now theres a red line under you doing insane amounts of damage. Oh, perhaps I should move/dodge out of that. You try to pull 7 mobs like you could in central tyria. You get rekt. Oh, perhaps I should be more strategic about how I encounter enemies.

Avarice,

I can hardly remember the last time a boss or enemy in PvE, that I actually had to think one step ahead or recognize a pattern. Hell the entire berserker meta was established simply so people could get their rewards faster. Harder content creates the need for more and varied builds IF DONE RIGHt. Too hard and te meta becomes iron clad.

Really I’m not big on the HoT timers and believe the map should be more dependent on players rather than a set timer, like how world bosses used to be I believe…it’s been so long that they changed em but I believe they were on a soft timer but after that timer expired if you did the event chain the boss came up. It was so much fun douing a boss and screwing up the champ train!

Also I think the maps are well designed in funneling people to do events in smaller groups, then gathering them up for the big main event. The problem is that these maps are also designed to be explored and appreciated and that naturally conflicts with this organized nature with adventures and hero points being hard to do when the bigger events are going on….I think putting mastery points behind adventures was dumb. But most hero points are solvable or duo able.

@TheLastNobody

I agree that timers are not the greatest for one who is gated behind time. I defined a “casual” pretty much as this. The only problem I see is what else can you do? Let’s say you change meta events to react to the amount of players willing to participate. This will essentially result in even more waiting as you sit there waiting for people to fill your map. This will also result in more waiting as you are forced to complete every pre-event (Which can take up to an hour) before you even get to the meta event. This will further lock those who consider themselves casual from even participating. You log on for an hour, find a meta chain after 20 minutes, participate in pre-events until you need to log off 20 minutes prior to the actual meta beginning. Wouldn’t be easier to simply look at a timer and go where you need to go? Sure, you may not get the specific event you wanted (Ex. VB, AB, TD, DS) but at least you get to participate in something with such a small time frame. I mean I’m open to hearing ideas to work around this. This is the exact reason I made this thread. Discussion.

I absolutely agree that gating masteries behind adventures was not the best idea. I myself, struggle immensely with some of the masteries such as shooting gallery. To make things worse most of the adventures are gated behind Meta events resulting in a very limited amount of time to actually practice said adventures. I waited about 25 minutes for shooting gallery to open up. I put in 4-5 attempts then it was night time! This was about 10 minutes…

As for hero points in HoT. I didn’t even join a train minus AB which seems to always be running HP trains. When I was in TD, if there wasn’t a mastery I couldn’t solo I simply sat there and waited. I think the most I waited was about 15 minutes for the troll HP. Then two guys randomly showed up and we did it! We didn’t exchange numbers or life stories, we simply completed it. I think the only HP that is absolutely ridiculous is mushroom queen due to the fact that you need to zerk her down in that tiny area in TD. This is literally the only HP you need more than 2 people to complete.

I mean they handed out free apple tags to everyone. If you’re waiting for a HP simply throw it up and people will come. I know casuals don’t want to do this but perhaps try "/map LFM “so-and-so” HP." Trust me, it’s not that bad.

Avarice.2791:

Blude.6812:

Although the OPs’ post was tongue in cheek, if Anet even considers buffing HoT, it will just hasten the games demise. Of course some of OPs’ responses insult and ridicule others who challenge and disagree.
Time for the mods to lock and/or delete the thread since it offers nothing.

Okay, this is the kind of discussion I disagree with. Tell me, on which response did I insult and ridicule? This thread has been entirely justified discussion. The mods will not lock this because I have every right to express my opinion as you do. You state “buffing HoT will hasted the games demise.” You need to back up your claim. I believe the exact opposite. If content is nerfed to the ground then players will eventually run out of content. This game needs to increase with difficulty as time goes by and they need to back this up with increases in our abilities. (Ex. Elite Specs)

seems to be some missing discussions now, there was one in particular response that drew my attention, was the reason behind my post and I was going to quote a few commits but it is gone. And yes it is my opinion and seems to reflect what many others feel about HoT. I also have found ,more times with not enough players in HoT lately, it wasn’t like that until recently. Your threads premise does not appear to reflect the majority of opinions I have read at the forum. Harder content can be developed, but not exclusively over other types of play that I would say the majority prefer. One can play TT wurm if one wants to, but the rest of the map is open to do play as you want. This isn’t the case with Hot.

@Blude

Let me start by saying thank you for being more respectful in your reply. I am trying to promote discussion while trying to rational this nerf crazy thought process that a lot of people seem to be having. My OP is merely a troll to lure in those who might blindly disagree with me without reason. The comments that were removed were not due to anything I did or can control. I didn’t even think they were that bad minus what Pepsi said last night. I’ve had several comments removed myself now due to the fact that I was quoting their comments. I’m going to say this in two parts for just in case…lol

Continued…

Simply because my opinion does not reflect what you have personally seen in these forums does not make it wrong or right. The loudest voice in game forums are the ones who usually have something to complain about. You’re not going to see many threads saying “I think the content difficulty in this game is satisfactory.” No, those people are simply playing the content. On top of this the portion of community that visits these forums is so tiny when comparing to the overall community. You can’t take the opinion of the few and label that as a fact.

Also, in regards to TT i’ll say this. Yes, content is briefly gated behind some pre-meta events but this is the function of the HoT maps. I’m indifferent with how this works. Sometimes it is an adventure you can’t access. Sometimes its as simple as a longer walk due to a contested waypoint. This isn’t to say… content should be nerfed or buffed.

Lastly, let me be clear. The title of this thread is a joke to grab the attention of all those who are seeking nerfs without fully understand how this game works. I do not actually wish to see this content buffed, although I personally would enjoy that. What I wish to see is new content becoming linearly, increasingly, difficult as time goes on while older content becomes easier and more “outdated.” This is how you keep all aspects of the player-base entertained and this is the model that Anet and other MMO’s typically follow. If you are not willing to learn the game then it’s simple. You will not be at the top of the scale when it comes to progression. MMO’s are competitive in the sense that they require strategic thought, time, and help from others. This game is no different.

What do I hope to get out of this? I hope people come here saying something is too difficult. Then we can talk it through and I can offer advice on how I accomplished this.

So apparently someone was offended by my post here yesterday. What I wrote may have been a tad sharp but it was my personal reflection on the current state of the expansion fueled by nothing else but my sincere frustration with some aspects of HoT. It definitely wasnt insulting or hateful – if some of my fellow posters felt it was let me know and I’ll adjust my level of honesty next time.

Anyway I’m drawing my conclusions from all this and everyone else is free to draw theirs.

i dont need advice, i just need some new casual content
i could prolly slug my way though HoT, if i REALLY wanted/needed it, at least on my strongest characters
i play for fun and relaxation, HoT is neither , IMO
they have a great underwater combat, but they dont do anything new with it
instead, they use precious resources on a new gliding system , which is mediocre at best
they have wasted a ton of resources on content, that too few people enjoy
that is why, the population is steadily declining
if you build it, we will pay and play

pepsis.5384:

So apparently someone was offended by my post here yesterday. What I wrote may have been a tad sharp but it was my personal reflection on the current state of the expansion fueled by nothing else but my sincere frustration with some aspects of HoT. It definitely wasnt insulting or hateful – if some of my fellow posters felt it was let me know and I’ll adjust my level of honesty next time.

Anyway I’m drawing my conclusions from all this and everyone else is free to draw theirs.

Wasn’t me, I had a lengthy 4-5 paragraph reply to what you said which got deleted. If you want to raise some points go right ahead. To be honest, it seemed like you didn’t even bother to read my OP or any bit of the discussion on this thread.

battledrone.8315:

i dont need advice, i just need some new casual content
i could prolly slug my way though HoT, if i REALLY wanted/needed it, at least on my strongest characters
i play for fun and relaxation, HoT is neither , IMO
they have a great underwater combat, but they dont do anything new with it
instead, they use precious resources on a new gliding system , which is mediocre at best
they have wasted a ton of resources on content, that too few people enjoy
that is why, the population is steadily declining
if you build it, we will pay and play

I think most players would disagree with you when comparing the enjoyment of gliding to underwater mechanics. WoW already tried an underwater zone which immediately transformed into a deserted wasteland with zero reward. I actually really enjoy gliding. It’s a nice alternative to a flying “mount” which still keeps players involved in map combat.

Why is HoT too difficult for you? You can state it is but that leaves me sitting here clueless to why you feel this way and refuse to get advice. On the contrary you could probably get away with most of the HoT content in white gear and be perfectly fine. Is armor or experience what you define as “strong characters?”

When you say they waste precious resources I assume you’re talking about raiding? I hear you here. Do you run fractals or dungeons at all? If they implemented an easy-mode would you play it? If you were given advice on how to optimize your game-play would you take it?

How do you define casual? From all your recent posts you do not seem like a happy gamer

1: it is cheaper to use and expand an existing system , instead of making a new one
2: wows underwater combat is not nearly as good, as GW2s
3:yes, i have have a big problem with jumping puzzles, i struggled to get many of the vistas
jumping puzzles with enemies around..even worse
4:i dont run dungeons and fractals here at all..tried a couple of times, wasnt my thing
if they made a REALLY easymode version, i would prolly try it at least once
if it was casual enough, i would happily run all my 23 characters through it
5: they made lions arch 3 times but theyre only using one of them..waste
they make a zone, cram it full of mobs, which they then spend time on nerfing..waste
they had a really good skill system, but they replaced it with a inferior system..waste
when blizzard make a zone, they just leave it open for eternal use
with bugs and all..
happy gamer? currently switching between Xcom2, master of Orion and the division
i have plenty of games to play, but i would like a reason to return to Tyria
AFAIK they have only made 2 regular hearts quests since launch?

battledrone.8315:

1: it is cheaper to use and expand an existing system , instead of making a new one

Absolutely, but I’m not sure if you’re talking in regards to masteries… or… well anyways… the way I see it the mastery system is a solid alternative to simply raising the level cap and really creates a new unique system for HoT to build off of.

battledrone.8315:

2: wows underwater combat is not nearly as good, as GW2s

I mean, this is definitely an opinion and not really a fair argument. I don’t think you would find an underwater world full of mobs appealing if you are struggling with the easily controlled mobs on land. With underwater content you need to think on a 3D scale taking in account for mobs above and below you. If you are looking for simple content this is definitely not for you.

battledrone.8315:

3:yes, i have have a big problem with jumping puzzles, i struggled to get many of the vistas jumping puzzles with enemies around..even worse

I hear you, but practice makes perfect! When you apply yourself to what you want to accomplish you should gradually improve. That is to say, everyone improves at different rates and this is a topic I didn’t really cover in this thread.

battledrone.8315:

4:i dont run dungeons and fractals here at all..tried a couple of times, wasnt my thing if they made a REALLY easymode version, i would prolly try it at least once if it was casual enough, i would happily run all my 23 characters through it

Wow, I respect the fact that you maxed out 23 characters. What is your ambition in this game? Have you thought about simply applying yourself to one sole class and improving from there? You’re putting yourself at a major disadvantage if you try to push through 23 separate characters through content that SHOULD gradually increase in difficulty. I think you view GW2 as a sandbox game rather than a game with gradual progression. This applies to most MMO’s in the leveling process but you need to aim for something if you wish to be successful in end-game content. I’m going to go out on a whim and speculate that the majority of the player-base is more focused on mastering one class where as this would put you at a major disadvantage.

battledrone.8315:

5: they made lions arch 3 times but theyre only using one of them..wastethey make a zone, cram it full of mobs, which they then spend time on nerfing..waste they had a really good skill system, but they replaced it with a inferior system..waste when blizzard make a zone, they just leave it open for eternal use
with bugs and all.. happy gamer? currently switching between Xcom2, master of Orion and the division i have plenty of games to play, but i would like a reason to return to Tyria AFAIK they have only made 2 regular hearts quests since launch?

How do you propose they use all three versions of LA? They update the city according to how the living story is going. This is the whole purpose of GW2. Live maps that are constantly changing and evolving in relation to living story. If you are looking for a static MMO you are in the wrong place sir. GW2 is looking to get rid of grinds. This means you don’t have to grind out 30 million XP to participate in the expansion and this is why the mastery system is superior. A lot of the player-base complained about the dull-ness of heart quests and therefore a different system was introduced. As for the mastery system I explain above why I believe it is a superior system. Guild Wars has never been about raising the level cap. If you ventured into GW1 you would understand this. I respect your opinions but I believe they differ from the vast majority of the player-base.

sirsquishy.8531:

The ones who say HoT is easy are the ones who are actually playing with others. HoT is solable to a point, I know as i did all the maps (minus the Meta and Champs) on my Mesmer and Necro alone. And its not easy, takes a long time, but it IS interesting…the first few times you do it.

to the comments ‘Why play an MMO solo’, because solo play is fun too. And there isnt always a group availble, so sometimes you have to resort to playing alone. Does this mean all content needs to be solable? no. But there is a lot of content that needs to be toned down, specifically areas that have 20+ Mobs where it just doesn’t make sense to have that kinda setup.

But I think the main issue with HoT, its not like the Classic core of the game at all. Just about every aspect of HoT is completely different. Its like a whole other type of game.

i play solo and i say its easy. i havent gone with any guild since hot started. i used to belong to a wvw guild and only things i did as a guild was wvw or pvp. so your theory goes out the window tthere