Guild Wars 2

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Now you are getting into specific fractals tied to collections and even by your own words it’s only for collections. I don’t see LFG of people just wanting to do harpy fractals or dredge outside of collections and achievements. As for TA path and Arah 4, they were seen as hard and time consuming content and we have seen challenging content isn’t for everyone. Couple with the dungeon nerf and the fact the weapons in TA are so rare no one does them anymore. This wasn’t the main reason I thought the expansion was half done but everything I listed before.

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Now you are getting into specific fractals tied to collections and even by your own words it’s only for collections. I don’t see LFG of people just wanting to do harpy fractals or dredge outside of collections and achievements. As for TA path and Arah 4, they were seen as hard and time consuming content and we have seen challenging content isn’t for everyone. Couple with the dungeon nerf and the fact the weapons in TA are so rare no one does them anymore. This wasn’t the main reason I thought the expansion was half done but everything I listed before.

Doesn’t mean more people don’t like it this way. Before, if you were a hard core fractal runner, you had to have time to do an entire fractal. People complain about not having time to do a meta event in HoT. People don’t have time.

The new fractals favor people with less time, so more people do them. I think that’s fairly straight forward.

If you were a hard core fractal runner before, you weren’t some kind of majority. Casual players who don’t have time, might well prefer today’s fractals even if you don’t. I know for a fact far more people run fractals in my guild now over how many ran them before.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

So it’s not delayed now. It’s not temporary. It’s never. They took our money and now they will never release what we paid for.

And yet you still argue to support them.

Yup. Weird ay? Customers that value content over counting beans.

Customers who value getting what they paid their money for.

I’m sure that when you get shorted by a store when you buy something you don’t care at all. It’s just “counting beans.”

That’s funny … I feel I got value what I paid for. Like I said, has lots to do with not counting beans but looking at the entertainment value I get from it and asking myself it was worth $50. I think it is. I think it’s actually really hard for someone to claim they didn’t because the features we know we aren’t getting are not as significant a part of the expansion as people are saying they are in this thread. Look at other things you do for entertainment. As yourself how much value you get from doing those things. Sensation is not facts. It’s emotional pandering.

People are saying any nonsense to make things seem worse than they are. Be one of those people if you really thinks it helps you out. I’m sure those people think the grass is greener elsewhere.

Obtena.7952:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Obtena.7952:

Never, because Anet isn’t developing them. If you’re trying to imply that Legendary as a main feature isn’t functional, that’s debateable.

So it’s not delayed now. It’s not temporary. It’s never. They took our money and now they will never release what we paid for.

And yet you still argue to support them.

Yup. Weird ay? Customers that value content over counting beans.

Customers who value getting what they paid their money for.

I’m sure that when you get shorted by a store when you buy something you don’t care at all. It’s just “counting beans.”

That’s funny … I feel I got value what I paid for. Like I said, has lots to do with not counting beans but looking at the entertainment value I get from it and asking myself it was worth $50. I think it is. I think it’s actually really hard for someone to claim they didn’t because the features we know we aren’t getting are not as significant a part of the expansion as people are saying they are in this thread. Look at other things you do for entertainment. As yourself how much value you get from doing those things. Sensation is not facts. It’s emotional pandering.

People are saying any nonsense to make things seem worse than they are. Be one of those people if you really thinks it helps you out. I’m sure those people think the grass is greener elsewhere.

It’s interesting to hear from someone who would feel cheated if they spent $50 at one store and not get everything that was advertised on the box then spend $50 somewhere else and not get everything that was advertised on the box, and then turn around and call other people “bean counters” because they feel cheated.

It’s either bean counting on both or bean counting on neither. It’s something though when a person puts down and dismisses other people’s unhappiness about not getting what was paid for with a snide “bean counting” remark. I’m sure if you didn’t get your $50 worth at the first store and someone brushed aside your concerns with a snide remark, you wouldn’t appreciate it at all.

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Turns out people want to do the quick and easy fractals in order to get their dailies over with, and don’t bother with the long and tedious ones if they can possibly help it. This is only a problem if you’re the type to get mad because other players are Doing Fractals Wrong.

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

OPs obviously has not explored much of the contents that the expansion bought during the launch to make such comments as the comments are not comprehensive.

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

I like this analogy. Captures my take on the situations as well. Some people really wanted the missing channels, others never intended to watch them in the first place. In either case the service provider is failing to provide the promised service. It just doesn’t matter to some customers.

My concern is the idea of setting a precedent where Anet feels that they can opt to not provide advertised and paid for aspects of future expansions because many people did not care this time. I do not care about legendaries per se, but might very well be affected next time.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

I like this analogy. Captures my take on the situations as well. Some people really wanted the missing channels, others never intended to watch them in the first place. In either case the service provider is failing to provide the promised service. It just doesn’t matter to some customers.

My concern is the idea of setting a precedent where Anet feels that they can opt to not provide advertised and paid for aspects of future expansions because many people did not care this time. I do not care about legendaries per se, but might very well be affected next time.

In a sense that precedent exists. As long as people view MMOs as games that are products rather than access to a service, they’re fooling themselves. This is always been the case with MMOs.

How many MMOs started as a sub game and then went free to play and completely changed the nature of the game? A lot of people who loved Lotro before it went free to play, disliked it after.

During the months leading up to the free to play, people have spent $150 to pay a sub they could have just waited for and not paid at all, at least in theory. People here are complaining about 75% of the legendaries Anet was going to release over time. It’s a small percentage of what was described as part of the product…but it’s a service.

You are paying for a game key to have an account in an online space. Changing things is always something a company can do, and so is closing it (look at City of Heroes and Warhammer). Look at Star Wars Galaxies after a huge change that completely destroyed the game.

No one asked for that change, but those changes were made.

Saying something is coming and then seeing people not using it and changing what you’re offering is part and parcel of any service industry.

It’s not a precedent. It’s always been the case that companies who provide content and change the content they provide.

Good analogy and excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will affect many people’s stand on the issue.

Obtena.7952:

Good analogy and excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will affect many people’s stand on the issue.

You’re certainly entitled to that opinion. I don’t think most people have a stand. Even after the announcement a poll here showed a third of the players here will preorder the next expansion. Considering we’re more likely to follow the game than more casual players, I think many people probably don’t have a stand at all. Some do, certainly but maybe not as many as you’d think if you were one of those people.

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Now you are getting into specific fractals tied to collections and even by your own words it’s only for collections. I don’t see LFG of people just wanting to do harpy fractals or dredge outside of collections and achievements. As for TA path and Arah 4, they were seen as hard and time consuming content and we have seen challenging content isn’t for everyone. Couple with the dungeon nerf and the fact the weapons in TA are so rare no one does them anymore. This wasn’t the main reason I thought the expansion was half done but everything I listed before.

Doesn’t mean more people don’t like it this way. Before, if you were a hard core fractal runner, you had to have time to do an entire fractal. People complain about not having time to do a meta event in HoT. People don’t have time.

The new fractals favor people with less time, so more people do them. I think that’s fairly straight forward.

If you were a hard core fractal runner before, you weren’t some kind of majority. Casual players who don’t have time, might well prefer today’s fractals even if you don’t. I know for a fact far more people run fractals in my guild now over how many ran them before.

You keep changing the discussion. Now you are talking about time to do fractals. Keep deflecting.

The new system is better because you can choose which fractals to do and how many depending on time but that has created The Swamp of the Mist. That is what people talk about when they say fractals are dead and not dead as in population, dead as in boring grind. Wonder what new discussion you will pull from this.

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

What about if those 3 channels were the only channels you wanted to watch but in order to do so you had to buy the other 107. I don’t care for the 107 other channels, sure it’s nice, my main point of ordering was the 3. Then what?

Sounds to me like it’s time to cancel your cable … or you shjouldn’t ahve gotten it in the first place because you overpaid for services you didn’t want with the exception of a small percentage. It was going to be hard to get your value from the service to begin with.

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

Good analogy and excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will affect many people’s stand on the issue.

You’re certainly entitled to that opinion. I don’t think most people have a stand. Even after the announcement a poll here showed a third of the players here will preorder the next expansion. Considering we’re more likely to follow the game than more casual players, I think many people probably don’t have a stand at all. Some do, certainly but maybe not as many as you’d think if you were one of those people.

Wait, you attack the poll as incredible, but then cite it as a source here. So only the part that you agree with is right? I agree that many people don’t have a leg to stand on, just not the same people as you believe.

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Sird.4536:

I’m not saying people don’t like it, the many threads are.

I will only comment on the fractal. Ask your guild members if they are doing 6 swamps and 2 molten duo or 10 different a day. Also there might be a surge of people doing other levels but it’s only because they are removing 2 achievements.

Actually I don’t have to ask. My guild does whatever the dailies are and a couple of easy ones and they’re happy with that. It doesn’t bother them.

However, very often we have people who need something for collections or people who just need the achievement and all along, we help each other out in my guild. If someone needs to run Mai Trin to dump harpy pheremones on them for the Quip collection we do it.

So it’s not always the swamp…but then, that’s a problem for some people and not everyone. There are people who would rather be doing other things and just want their Fractal daily done too.

It’s not very different from how dungeons used to be. Not everyone was interested in Running TA aetherblade or Arah path 4.

Edit: And it STILL doesn’t mean the expansion is half done.

Now you are getting into specific fractals tied to collections and even by your own words it’s only for collections. I don’t see LFG of people just wanting to do harpy fractals or dredge outside of collections and achievements. As for TA path and Arah 4, they were seen as hard and time consuming content and we have seen challenging content isn’t for everyone. Couple with the dungeon nerf and the fact the weapons in TA are so rare no one does them anymore. This wasn’t the main reason I thought the expansion was half done but everything I listed before.

Doesn’t mean more people don’t like it this way. Before, if you were a hard core fractal runner, you had to have time to do an entire fractal. People complain about not having time to do a meta event in HoT. People don’t have time.

The new fractals favor people with less time, so more people do them. I think that’s fairly straight forward.

If you were a hard core fractal runner before, you weren’t some kind of majority. Casual players who don’t have time, might well prefer today’s fractals even if you don’t. I know for a fact far more people run fractals in my guild now over how many ran them before.

You keep changing the discussion. Now you are talking about time to do fractals. Keep deflecting.

The new system is better because you can choose which fractals to do and how many depending on time but that has created The Swamp of the Mist. That is what people talk about when they say fractals are dead and not dead as in population, dead as in boring grind. Wonder what new discussion you will pull from this.

I know. The goal posts in this thread have been moved so many times they circumscribe the globe. It’s hard to deny that we weren’t given everything that was promised for the price and the price wasn’t what someone would expect to pay, even if we did get everything promised. But it’s done. Those willing to pay did. Hopefully, we’re all a little wiser for the experience.

Ultimately the distinction between service and product is not as clear cut as is often portrayed. A service that is advertised as containing certain elements, when said elements are not provided, is no less derelict in their responsibilities than would be the case were it a physical object being sold missing advertised components.

As far as false advertisement is concerned, intent to mislead the consumer is important. I dont think that such intent existed at the time the feature was announced. Even so, lack of intent is not sufficient to completely negate action against a company inaccurately advertising a product. Depending on local laws there can be significant fines associated with inaccurate advertising even if there is no intent to deceive. The goal of these laws is to ensure that that the consumer doesnt get left holding the bag when a business makes a mistake, to ensure that businesses are diligent in ensuring that ther statements about their products are accurate, and that companies cannot hide behind an inability of the state to prove intent to deceive. Of course, if intent can be proven, penalties can truly skyrocket.

Now, if the advertisement were still on display after a decision was made by the company to not completely fulfill its terms, things get very tricky, very quickly. Choosing to attempt to continue to draw in custom with an advertisement that you know is inaccurate might very well cross the line into true, intent to deceive, false advertisement.

Compared to guildwars expansions this wasn’t that big and it certainly isn’t as finished.

Ashen.2907:

Ultimately the distinction between service and product is not as clear cut as is often portrayed. A service that is advertised as containing certain elements, when said elements are not provided, is no less derelict in their responsibilities than would be the case were it a physical object being sold missing advertised components.

As far as false advertisement is concerned, intent to mislead the consumer is important. I dont think that such intent existed at the time the feature was announced. Even so, lack of intent is not sufficient to completely negate action against a company inaccurately advertising a product. Depending on local laws there can be significant fines associated with inaccurate advertising even if there is no intent to deceive. The goal of these laws is to ensure that that the consumer doesnt get left holding the bag when a business makes a mistake, to ensure that businesses are diligent in ensuring that ther statements about their products are accurate, and that companies cannot hide behind an inability of the state to prove intent to deceive. Of course, if intent can be proven, penalties can truly skyrocket.

Now, if the advertisement were still on display after a decision was made by the company to not completely fulfill its terms, things get very tricky, very quickly. Choosing to attempt to continue to draw in custom with an advertisement that you know is inaccurate might very well cross the line into true, intent to deceive, false advertisement.

Civil RICO could even apply.

Sird.4536:

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

I consider that an irrelevant comparison. When I pay for GW2, I pay for a service. When I buy something at a store, I get an item.

When I don’t get an item, I don’t get it. When I get partial service, I still got something. It’s also handled differently by the vendor as well. In this case, I feel that my $50, even with the partial service, was more than the value I paid for the service. I see why people don’t understand or want to ignore that difference. Makes them look more like the victim.

To me, it’s more like a cable service. It’s advertised with 110 specific channels and maybe I get 107 channels, but the three channels I’m not getting are three channels that don’t interest me.

Because there’s so many other channels, it’s not an issue for me.

Sure I could go and demand the channels I’m missing, but if I’m not going to watch them it’s not worth my time.

On the other hand, if one of those channels was a channel I wanted specifically, sure I’d be angry and complain.

It all depends on your focus.

At the end of the day, with 80 channels, I’d have plenty to watch, so it doesn’t matter if there are 20 channels I’m not getting. Yes, it’s nice to see that I’m getting 100 channels but at the end of the day it’s not going to make a difference to me, one way or another.

What about if those 3 channels were the only channels you wanted to watch but in order to do so you had to buy the other 107. I don’t care for the 107 other channels, sure it’s nice, my main point of ordering was the 3. Then what?

Then you’ll cancel your subscription with that cable provider and you’ll move onto a cable provider that offers you what you want.

And in many cases, including mine, there isn’t a “cable provider” right now that comes even close to offering me what this one does. That’s the problem.

I’m not into open world PvP, in fact, I dislike it. I’m not particularly into dungeons or raids. I want a game focused on the open world, without open world PvP. I’m not sure where you think I’ll find that provider.

Those that want something else will leave and they’ll be replaced by people who want what this provider has to offer. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be upset, or annoyed, or angry.

I’m saying half an expansion is hyperbole. There are things missing, but it’s still more than half an expansion.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

Obtena.7952:

Good analogy and excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will affect many people’s stand on the issue.

You’re certainly entitled to that opinion. I don’t think most people have a stand. Even after the announcement a poll here showed a third of the players here will preorder the next expansion. Considering we’re more likely to follow the game than more casual players, I think many people probably don’t have a stand at all. Some do, certainly but maybe not as many as you’d think if you were one of those people.

Wait, you attack the poll as incredible, but then cite it as a source here. So only the part that you agree with is right? I agree that many people don’t have a leg to stand on, just not the same people as you believe.

I said it’s a bad time to do the poll and STILL it’s showing a third of the people will preorder. I think it’ll be higher than that.

That’s the point isn’kitten The poll was put out at a time when people were the most salty and it still shows that a large number of people would prepurchase. It doesn’t make the poll good, but it certainly is something you can make a point with. If anything the poll is slanted against what I’m saying due to timing and STILL it shows it’s not as big a deal as some people are thinking.

So yes, I have no trouble reffering to that poll because if it’s inaccurate, it’s inaccurate favoring those against me.

The poll overwhelming shows that people are not planning on prepurchasing. If you are going to accept that third who still will, you have to accept the rest. You can’t just cherry pick the results and say that anything different is wrong. Well you can, but that would be dishonest.

DaShi.1368:

The poll overwhelming shows that people are not planning on prepurchasing. If you are going to accept that third who still will, you have to accept the rest. You can’t just cherry pick the results and say that anything different is wrong. Well you can, but that would be dishonest.

The only way what you’re saying makes sense is if you know the percentage of people that normally prepurchase anyway. Do you?

The prepurchase contingent is higher than I thought it would be.

Vayne.8563:

The only way what you’re saying makes sense is if you know the percentage of people that normally prepurchase anyway. Do you?

And neither do you. Now, I’m making no claim about the accuracy of the poll. I’m merely stating that it would be disingenuous to cite one part of the poll while calling the part disagreed with fundamentally wrong.

The prepurchase contingent is higher than I thought it would be.

I think so too. Some people may have been trying to counter the results.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

The only way what you’re saying makes sense is if you know the percentage of people that normally prepurchase anyway. Do you?

And neither do you. Now, I’m making no claim about the accuracy of the poll. I’m merely stating that it would be disingenuous to cite one part of the poll while calling the part disagreed with fundamentally wrong.

The prepurchase contingent is higher than I thought it would be.

I think so too. Some people may have been trying to counter the results.

Nah, it’s not disingeuous by a long shot.

Simple example. If I say I believe most people hate something and I see a poll that shows a better than expected result, that’s all I’m saying here. I’m not saying the poll is accurate.

I said I don’t believe it’s a good time to poll that and I stand by that assessement. I think the number of people voting would logically be more against it, because people are angry.

That’s ALL I said. I didn’t say the poll itself is a bad poll, I questioned the timing of the poll. And within that context I still saw a higher percentage of people who would preorder than I expected.

There’s nothing disingenuous about that.

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

The only way what you’re saying makes sense is if you know the percentage of people that normally prepurchase anyway. Do you?

And neither do you. Now, I’m making no claim about the accuracy of the poll. I’m merely stating that it would be disingenuous to cite one part of the poll while calling the part disagreed with fundamentally wrong.

The prepurchase contingent is higher than I thought it would be.

I think so too. Some people may have been trying to counter the results.

Nah, it’s not disingeuous by a long shot.

Simple example. If I say I believe most people hate something and I see a poll that shows a better than expected result, that’s all I’m saying here. I’m not saying the poll is accurate.

I said I don’t believe it’s a good time to poll that and I stand by that assessement. I think the number of people voting would logically be more against it, because people are angry.

That’s ALL I said. I didn’t say the poll itself is a bad poll, I questioned the timing of the poll. And within that context I still saw a higher percentage of people who would preorder than I expected.

There’s nothing disingenuous about that.

Questioning whether the poll can deliver accurate results is saying that the poll is not good. Accuracy is the key component of any polling. Any question to accuracy requires some doubt of the results. Cherry picking those same results to push an agenda is disingenuous. Your example is not saying what you think it is.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

The only way what you’re saying makes sense is if you know the percentage of people that normally prepurchase anyway. Do you?

And neither do you. Now, I’m making no claim about the accuracy of the poll. I’m merely stating that it would be disingenuous to cite one part of the poll while calling the part disagreed with fundamentally wrong.

The prepurchase contingent is higher than I thought it would be.

I think so too. Some people may have been trying to counter the results.

Nah, it’s not disingeuous by a long shot.

Simple example. If I say I believe most people hate something and I see a poll that shows a better than expected result, that’s all I’m saying here. I’m not saying the poll is accurate.

I said I don’t believe it’s a good time to poll that and I stand by that assessement. I think the number of people voting would logically be more against it, because people are angry.

That’s ALL I said. I didn’t say the poll itself is a bad poll, I questioned the timing of the poll. And within that context I still saw a higher percentage of people who would preorder than I expected.

There’s nothing disingenuous about that.

Questioning whether the poll can deliver accurate results is saying that the poll is not good. Accuracy is the key component of any polling. Any question to accuracy requires some doubt of the results. Cherry picking those same results to push an agenda is disingenuous. Your example is not saying what you think it is.

The poll is not the be all end all of anything. I cited it as a single example. My opinion of casuals who don’t follow the game vs hard core who do is pretty well established on these forums.

Even without the poll, my understanding of the situation doesn’t change. A small percentage of people post outrage and say it’s the end of the world and at the end of the day it amounts to very little because a decent percentage of the playerbase simply don’t follow the game closely.

The poll changes nothing about what I said, whether it’s accurate, inaccurate or anything else.

And still none of this talks to the question of the topic. Is the expansion half done. I say it’s more like 85% done, but you know, it’s fine. People can keep bandying this 50% figure about, but where’s the evidence?

Vayne.8563:

The poll is not the be all end all of anything. I cited it as a single example. My opinion of casuals who don’t follow the game vs hard core who do is pretty well established on these forums.

Even without the poll, my understanding of the situation doesn’t change. A small percentage of people post outrage and say it’s the end of the world and at the end of the day it amounts to very little because a decent percentage of the playerbase simply don’t follow the game closely.

The poll changes nothing about what I said, whether it’s accurate, inaccurate or anything else.

And still none of this talks to the question of the topic. Is the expansion half done. I say it’s more like 85% done, but you know, it’s fine. People can keep bandying this 50% figure about, but where’s the evidence?

I agree. We’ve gotten off-topic for too long.

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

how do we know it not finished? missing legendary… not that i care for them. but the promised content of HoT simply isn’t there.

and the reason they have teething problem in wvw and other content is really because of the short beta. development isn’t just about making the game, but also testing it.

anyway even if this is a HoT beta, why is it bad? i get to lvl my game and explore the world earlier, it all fun.

lagrangewei.8516:

how do we know it not finished? missing legendary… not that i care for them. but the promised content of HoT simply isn’t there.

and the reason they have teething problem in wvw and other content is really because of the short beta. development isn’t just about making the game, but also testing it.

anyway even if this is a HoT beta, why is it bad? i get to lvl my game and explore the world earlier, it all fun.

I did not pay for a beta.

lagrangewei.8516:

how do we know it not finished? missing legendary… not that i care for them. but the promised content of HoT simply isn’t there.

I known that HoT was rushed and is unfinished due 3 of the legendary stances from my Revenant lacks undewater skills. Is pretty hard to ARGUE AGAINST when is too obvious.

Therese some other evidences, like the lack of availability of the final form of the legendary fractal backpack, the ~1 month it took them to have the PvP leagues, and so on…

zxstanyxz.8769:

Donari.5237:

Elias.4028:

1. Raiding was not available at launch. I don’t think it would be a good idea to delay the entire expansion one month to have this bundled in with HoT at launch, but it is one of the core new game systems that really should have been ready to play.

I think it could have been ready but they delayed it to give people a grace period to earn the masteries needed. Try fighting Gorseval without gliding/updrafts … (at a guess. I have not seen that boss. Could be doable without?). At least they did state that as a reason at the time.

I believe one of the biggest reasons for the Raid delay was that the final beta, with access to raiding, had near-disastrously game breaking bugs with the squad interface which is required for raids. they had to turn it off, and raiding, within hours of the start of the beta test and I dont believe it got turned on before the beta ended. as such there was obviously some major unexpected issues that needed to be fixed to be able to release the raids, and as such it was delayed more than intended from the HoT release schedule.

The thing is, people were pointing out a lot of problems in the beta, that seemed to go ignored, or show the xpac was being too rushed.

The raid and squad feature was just one, but the talks of professions being too OP now in some parts, or way too weak, were posted as well. Then there was the talent unlocks. I was fine with not having them unlocked right away, but then the method and amount you needed to get everything was just too much.

I think the worse part was, in that beta, we were told “you won’t have access to everything, some stuff is being kept secret!”

Sure, ok. I buy that. We were stuck to one zone, and apparently not all the events were active, only one path in the story, yada yada. Sure.

But then when I played the release…I didn’t see anything new, other than the new zones. The entry zone stayed pretty much the same, no big surprises. It was just….unsatisfying…

Btw, remember when you were going to have choices in the story now that would have big impacts later on? Boy did that die after the first scene (and the first scene it didn’t matter).

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

I agree with all of this.

Something worth keeping in mind though is that just because a paying customer doesn’t actually find something better elsewhere does not mean that it is a benefit to a company’s financial health for him to leave.

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

opinion? debateable? how many of the core maps has shut down, and transferred players to a fresh one, with no progression?
how many of the core maps have buggy boss fights?
if the core game had HoT quality from start, this game would had tanked so hard

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

opinion? debateable? how many of the core maps has shut down, and transferred players to a fresh one, with no progression?
how many of the core maps have buggy boss fights?
if the core game had HoT quality from start, this game would had tanked so hard

Core maps have always had buggy fights in one way or another. Ogre Wars would like to have a word with you.

I think there’s quite a bit of content in HoT, but they took things away at the same time. I believe this is why (for me, at least) HoT felt a little lacking. I’m sure all of this has been said before.

Elite specs
Perhaps I misunderstood but I never once saw them described as power creeps. Instead they were to be side-choices. An alternate way for the class to work that is not better nor worse (within reason). Obviously they were anything but. There may be a few specific builds that work for base classes but in almost every case (maybe every case?) the Elite specs are flat out better. So while I believe Elite specs are one of the best features of HoT, I also believe they are just as detrimental.

Guild Halls
They look fantastic. They are fun and useful to be in. They cost a fortune in materials. And (imo) they completely eliminated any chance small guilds (or solo bank guilds) had to progress. As far as I know, there is no progress to be made in small guilds by actually playing the game (outside of grinding for gold/materials). Maybe this is a good thing, it may push people toward bigger guilds and there may be less resources ‘wasted’ on solo guilds, but it still didn’t sit well with me.

HoT Maps
Frustrating at first when learning them but I liked them a lot for the most part. Not many complaints here. A few small improvements might be nice, such as more updrafts or mushrooms to contested WPs (Ordnance camp comes to mind but maybe I’m unaware of an easy route to that WP).

HoT Story
I loved a lot of it. It had some weak moments sure and may not have given a proper resolution to some ongoing character arcs. But when mobs wiped the floor with me and a lack of a glider meant I was in for a 10+ minute trek back (if I even remembered how to back) seeing more of the story is what made me keep playing. I was very excited until I started running into mastery walls (which have thankfully been removed since) and right up until Dragon’s Stand I was thoroughly pleased. Sadly it fell apart so fast that I was sure it was some kind of a joke and the real ending would show up at any second. Very much look forward to LS3 and hope it redeems.

Raids
Can’t say much. I haven’t tried them. I’ve heard good and bad. Seems like a good addition as a whole.

New Stats
I really like seeing new stat combinations, provided they are still balanced with existing ones and I think for the most part the newly added stats are. I wish the jewelry were obtainable outside of Raids (or that we could change the stats of ascended jewelry) but LS3 will hopefully deliver that. What frustrated me the most about the new stat items is the Linseed Oil cost for exotics. Why was there a need for this? If the stats are supposed to be equal, why is there a huge price discrepancy? New items for the insignia/inscription, sure, but why require the oiled armor too? I guess it’s not a big deal, but it’s certainly stopped me from crafting any of the new sets. I’m more inclined to finish an ascended set that I can share with alts than to craft 3 or 4 of the same oiled armor sets.

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

opinion? debateable? how many of the core maps has shut down, and transferred players to a fresh one, with no progression?
how many of the core maps have buggy boss fights?
if the core game had HoT quality from start, this game would had tanked so hard

Your singular example is again, not changing anything I’ve said here. Maps closing inadvertently are bugs. All MMO’s have them. I’ve played lots of buggy games with bugs that persist for years. If you think that players are going to leave because of bugs in GW2, then they are going to be continually and equally disappointed in any other MMO they play to replace GW2 that releases new content. They all have bugs too. Good Luck.

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

opinion? debateable? how many of the core maps has shut down, and transferred players to a fresh one, with no progression?
how many of the core maps have buggy boss fights?
if the core game had HoT quality from start, this game would had tanked so hard

Your singular example is again, not changing anything I’ve said here. Maps closing inadvertently are bugs. All MMO’s have them. I’ve played lots of buggy games with bugs that persist for years. If you think that players are going to leave because of bugs in GW2, then they are going to be continually and equally disappointed in any other MMO they play to replace GW2 that releases new content. They all have bugs too. Good Luck.

first it was “opinion and debateable”, now “it doesnt matter, because everybody is
doing it”
yea…whatever

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

battledrone.8315:

Obtena.7952:

No one should have bought HoT thinking it was ‘done’. That’s not even the nature of most MMO expansions. They get tweaked, bugfixed, adjusted, added to … lots of time.

It’s pretty hard to compare almost anything Anet does to other MMO’s because GW2 does quite a few things off the beaten path. I get the feeling that Anet goes out of their way to deliver not-typical game mechanics and features.

when i buy a product, i expect the main features to be functional..they werent
if they had put more of that creative energy into some ordinary (casual) zones,
they wouldnt be in this situation
SPECIAL content for SPECIAL users will give you a SPECIAL playerbase
SPECIAL doesnt work very well if you want money from ORDINARY players

Then your expectations aren’t aligned to most of what the MMO industry delivers and especially to how Anet has demonstrated over the last 3 years how they operate. Anet delivers content in chunks. The expansion was no different, except you actually paid for these chunks. You still weren’t going to get them all at once on release day and IIRC, Anet was pretty clear about that so stop pretending that your expectations trump Anet’s content delivery process.

1: the quality was much lower, than in any previous content
2: if you try to tell a paying customers, that he is wrong, he will prolly just leave, and take his business somewhere else

Those things might be true, but that changes nothing I’ve said. Your first point is a matter of opinion and is debateable, your second is just a truth of any market where vendors compete for share. Neither of them changes the idea that players that invent what Anet should do are going to be disappointed (unreasonably so) when Anet doesn’t deliver those to the expectations of those player’s made up fantasies.

Furthermore, if you think players are going to leave because of Anet’s approach to developing an MMO, they aren’t likely to find solace anywhere else; As I’ve stated, Anet’s approach doesn’t differ too much from anyone else’s. Let the players go where they want, but they aren’t likely to find a dev that acts a whole lot differently. MMO’s change, sometimes good or not good. That’s not unique to GW2. Good Luck.

opinion? debateable? how many of the core maps has shut down, and transferred players to a fresh one, with no progression?
how many of the core maps have buggy boss fights?
if the core game had HoT quality from start, this game would had tanked so hard

Your singular example is again, not changing anything I’ve said here. Maps closing inadvertently are bugs. All MMO’s have them. I’ve played lots of buggy games with bugs that persist for years. If you think that players are going to leave because of bugs in GW2, then they are going to be continually and equally disappointed in any other MMO they play to replace GW2 that releases new content. They all have bugs too. Good Luck.

first it was “opinion and debateable”, now “it doesnt matter, because everybody is
doing it”
yea…whatever

It’s not really debatable. This game launched with so many bugs, it was terrifying. Bugs that prevented personal story progress, sometimes for months. Many, many bugged dynamic events. Bugs in dungeons, some to this day. Bugs in so many aspects of the game. Hell culling in WvW made it so you often couldn’t see people attacking you until you were already dead. This game has always always always had bugs…but so have other MMOs I’ve played.

There were two week long episodes of LS season 1 that were bugged for achievments for the first four days. This isn’t something new and different. If anything HoT was less bugged than GW 2 at release.

The megaserver bugs are indeed serious. I’m hoping we see some fixes to the megaserver in the big patch this month and we know other fixes are coming.

But saying bugs are this thing that came with HoT and are somehow more than before is pretty much sheer fantasy.

Yes, because every “other” AAA expansion has bugs and sucks by design, please excuse HoT.
To those that don’t get it, “other” is quoted because HoT is not an expansion, let alone a triple-A one. It is only priced as such. What it really is is a pathetic excuse of a patch. If anything, HoT should be free, and GW2 should cost $50. How ironic.

I didn’t pay for gliding in open world. This is not an argument – I payed for content they promised so content they didn’t doesn’t affect my take on what they didn’t deliver.

I understand the difference between product and service, however that does not make anet immune to being called on it’s false advertisement. Advertisement made for Hot – the expansion in question. So yes – what I thought I was paying for and what I received are 2 different things so I have a right to declare myself unsatisfied just like you have a right to be satisfied.

And you do not have a right either to call others out because they feel like their maid should sweep the floors like she was paid for, not fix the kitten car. It may suit your fancy, but it really is this simple.

Also we’ll welcome you on the unsatisfied side once they scrap and delay features you care about and replace them with others you deem irrelevant. Because it will happen eventually if you (and apparently we should as well) accept this method

Marius.3185:

I didn’t pay for gliding in open world. This is not an argument – I payed for content they promised so content they didn’t doesn’t affect my take on what they didn’t deliver.

I understand the difference between product and service, however that does not make anet immune to being called on it’s false advertisement. Advertisement made for Hot – the expansion in question. So yes – what I thought I was paying for and what I received are 2 different things so I have a right to declare myself unsatisfied just like you have a right to be satisfied.

And you do not have a right either to call others out because they feel like their maid should sweep the floors like she was paid for, not fix the kitten car. It may suit your fancy, but it really is this simple.

Also we’ll welcome you on the unsatisfied side once they scrap and delay features you care about and replace them with others you deem irrelevant. Because it will happen eventually if you (and apparently we should as well) accept this method

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising. Much like using the word lie, false advertising actually includes the intent to deceive customers.

Simple example, if a health spa advertises a certian pieces of equiptment, and no one uses it three months later and it’s taking up room, then they would be within their rights to replace that equipment with something that got used. And if someone tried to take them to court for false advetising, they’d lose, because they would show that the piece wasn’t used and it wasn’t a good value for most of their customers.

People who used other equpitment wouldn’t likely be entitled to a refund by law, unless they could somehow prove that they only ever used that one piece of equiptment and it still wouldn’t be considered false advertising.

You can talk about it all you want, but at the end of the day, there are laws that protect consumers and there are laws that protect businesses. Businesses often make business decisions that change the nature of their product.

An example of false advertising is when you advertise the strongest rope in the world and it’s not the strongest rope in the word. Not advertising content in an MMO that you start to deliver, see little interest, and change.

Vayne.8563:

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising.

Perhaps so, but a company in such a case could still face significant penalties imposed by the state for inaccurate representation of their product, even if there was no intent to deceive. I know that my company has paid quite a bit (as in millions of dollars) under those circumstances.

Keep in mind, also, that choosing to not expend the resources to deliver an advertised product because the company has chosen to spend them on a different product entirely might not be seen as reasonably trying to deliver the advertised product.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising.

Perhaps so, but a company in such a case could still face significant penalties imposed by the state for inaccurate representation of their product, even if there was no intent to deceive. I know that my company has paid quite a bit (as in millions of dollars) under those circumstances.

Keep in mind, also, that choosing to not expend the resources to deliver an advertised product because the company has chosen to spend them on a different product entirely might not be seen as reasonably trying to deliver the advertised product.

Actually, that’s not true at all. A company would not be imposed any penalty if they didn’t break the law. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

The very MOST they would be required to do, by a court, is to refund the money for the purchase of the game, in in this case a portion of the money if the person played it.

In other words, if you join a health spa which advertises a certain machine and then they get rid of it 6 months into your contract, but you did other stuff in the spa, you’d not be entitled to anything.

I don’t know why you would think there would be penalties if no law had been broken.

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.