Guild Wars 2

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

If you paid for the radio, and they decided not to give it to you, then yes, you didn’t get the full sale. You got a partial sale, and most people wouldn’t be too happy to pay for features on their cars that they didn’t ever get after they’d already paid. Even making allowances for the difference in MMOs versus actual objects, they’ve given us a partial expansion so far.

They said that HoT would include 16 new legendaries. Until all 16 are in the game, it’s still partial even if most of it is there. They didn’t have to advertise 16 new legendaries. They could have advertised 4 new legendaries, but they didn’t. It was their choice to make that many legendaries part of the HoT pricing and advertisement.

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

Imagine that really happened.
You’d go to a different hotel.
So.. there’s that.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

If you paid for the radio, and they decided not to give it to you, then yes, you didn’t get the full sale. You got a partial sale, and most people wouldn’t be too happy to pay for features on their cars that they didn’t ever get after they’d already paid. Even making allowances for the difference in MMOs versus actual objects, they’ve given us a partial expansion so far.

They said that HoT would include 16 new legendaries. Until all 16 are in the game, it’s still partial even if most of it is there. They didn’t have to advertise 16 new legendaries. They could have advertised 4 new legendaries, but they didn’t. It was their choice to make that many legendaries part of the HoT pricing and advertisement.

But you still got a car, that’s the point. Legendaries don’t make up a significant percentage of the expansion. Saying you didn’t get a full expansion because you didn’t get a couple of features is a half truth. It’s technically true, but it’s also misleading.

For example, if you never ever had any intent to make a legendary weapon, then for every practical purpose, getting them or not getting them doesn’t change the expansion for you. For purposes of how it affects you’re game, you’re getting the exact same expansion.

I mean I got raids in this expansion and I don’t really do them, and I don’t enjoy them when I do them. Taking raids out of the game would improve the game for me. So even though technically I got what I paid for, so what? Getting what you paid for only matters if you want that thing. Otherwise it’s just a theoretical conversation about what I might not get next time.

There’s every chance that seeing a new legendary come out wouldn’t affect me, because I don’t like the look of most legendaries in the game. So let’s say they did come out with them. Going by what I know there’s only a 25-30 percent chance I would like each one. So if they came out with stuff I didn’t like how would that affect my game. In the car analogy, how would that affect my drive to work if I didn’t listen to the radio anyway?

The point is, while you’re technically correct in what you’re saying, for all practical purposes it doesn’t change the meaning of anything I’ve said. Those legendaries, had they been introduced, wouldn’t likely have affected my game much at all. And obviously what affects my game is mostly what I care about.

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

If you paid for the radio, and they decided not to give it to you, then yes, you didn’t get the full sale. You got a partial sale, and most people wouldn’t be too happy to pay for features on their cars that they didn’t ever get after they’d already paid. Even making allowances for the difference in MMOs versus actual objects, they’ve given us a partial expansion so far.

They said that HoT would include 16 new legendaries. Until all 16 are in the game, it’s still partial even if most of it is there. They didn’t have to advertise 16 new legendaries. They could have advertised 4 new legendaries, but they didn’t. It was their choice to make that many legendaries part of the HoT pricing and advertisement.

But you still got a car, that’s the point.

This is just a sloppy business attitude. But I still got a car? Please. If a person pays for features for their car, but they don’t get them, then the seller has only given them part of what they paid for. A lot of people seem to feel the need to make excuses for Anet and prop them up. I don’t feel that need personally.

Since everything is digital, when it comes to MMOs, we spend our money based on the features listed as being part of an expansion. I believe it’s unprofessional and irresponsible to make a list of features and then not add them to the game once people have paid for those features. Adding most of the features is still not adding them all. Customers paid for them all. Giving them less than what was advertised is giving them a partial product since the sale was based on the features listed.

Rewriting history and saying that since we got some of the legendaries, we got the full expansion, seems kind of illogical to me. I get it that they planned badly and don’t want to do the work to finish the full 16. That’s life. But it’s still only giving me part of what I paid for.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

HoT was and continues to be only partially done so long as all the items they advertised as being a part of HoT have not been put into the game.

I’ll just leave this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_attractions_that_were_never_built

It’s not really the same situation and doesn’t alter my view that content already paid for should be provided.

It’s the same situation. Disney which is a themepark isntead of a themespark MMO talked about stuff they never delivered, for one reason or another.

Saying somethingt is partially completed, when it’s mostly completed is a different statement anyway. We’re not missing tons of stuff. We’re missing a couple of things out of a lot of things. And apparently the legendary fractal packpiece will be along any day, so we’ll be missing even less.

It’s not the same situation. There was a list of things we paid for from HoT. We paid for that list. The list that they chose to make and tell us was HoT was never fully delivered. Therefore, HoT is unfinished for what we paid for. The fact that they’re going to give more of the list, which is great, doesn’t change the fact that they’ve all but abandoned other items that we paid for. Until that list is in the game in its advertised entirety, HoT will be only partially completed.

Those who bought season passes at Disneyworld may have also paid for stuff they believed would be coming.

The problem is, with MMOs, you’re paying for access to areas. That’s what you’re paying for. Anyone who’s experienced with MMOs knows that stuff changes constantly, sometimes due to expected circumstances, some according to player commentary, some according to stuff that the company didn’t know.

Simply put if the company is going to put something in the game and not enough people are making use of it and it’s going to take a lot of development resources, canceling it is good business, even if a few players feel disenfranchised by it.

If we got 90% of the features listed on the box and then other things that weren’t listed, we’re getting value for money.

People still see buying an MMO is paying for a product, rather than a service, and they’re very different.

We were told we’d be able to craft precursors. Yes. Does everyone like the format that’s taken. No. But it’s all there.

Did Anet say we’d get new legedaries. Yes. Did they deliver some new legendaries, yes.

Did they also say over time we’d get more, yes. They did.

But We did get 3 legendaries and we’re getting a 4th now.

If you want to insist the expansion won’t be complete until the other 8 legendaries are in the game, sure, okay it won’t be complete. And TECHNICALLY that would make it a PARTIAL expansion.

But then if 90% of what is talked about is delivered, saying partial is still misleading.

It’s like saying I didn’t get hte radio I expected to get with my car, so I only got a partial car.

An expansion that’s always growing is always partial anyway. It’s the nature of the MMO beast.

If you paid for the radio, and they decided not to give it to you, then yes, you didn’t get the full sale. You got a partial sale, and most people wouldn’t be too happy to pay for features on their cars that they didn’t ever get after they’d already paid. Even making allowances for the difference in MMOs versus actual objects, they’ve given us a partial expansion so far.

They said that HoT would include 16 new legendaries. Until all 16 are in the game, it’s still partial even if most of it is there. They didn’t have to advertise 16 new legendaries. They could have advertised 4 new legendaries, but they didn’t. It was their choice to make that many legendaries part of the HoT pricing and advertisement.

But you still got a car, that’s the point.

This is just a sloppy business attitude. But I still got a car? Please. If a person pays for features for their car, but they don’t get them, then the seller has only given them part of what they paid for. A lot of people seem to feel the need to make excuses for Anet and prop them up. I don’t feel that need personally.

Since everything is digital, when it comes to MMOs, we spend our money based on the features listed as being part of an expansion. I believe it’s unprofessional and irresponsible to make a list of features and then not add them to the game once people have paid for those features. Adding most of the features is still not adding them all. Customers paid for them all. Giving them less than what was advertised is giving them a partial product since the sale was based on the features listed.

Rewriting history and saying that since we got some of the legendaries, we got the full expansion, seems kind of illogical to me. I get it that they planned badly and don’t want to do the work to finish the full 16. That’s life. But it’s still only giving me part of what I paid for.

It’s not a sloppy business attitude, whatever that is. It’s a realism that accompanies long experience with many different MMOs. They’ve all changed, some for the better, some for the worse. I tend to look at the forest, not individual trees. That’s always how I’ve been. Often this has served me in life.

It’s easy to be distracted by something I don’t have, even if I was supposed to have it. Does that make me happier? Stronger? Better? Or does that blind me to what I do have?

You don’t like a lot of things about the expansion, so you are more likely to focus on this missing tree. I’ve liked a lot of things about the expansion, but one of my favorite was gliding. I bought the expansion thinking, believing I’d never glide in Tyria. Yes, I lost a bunch of legendary weapons I might or might not have made, but I’ve gained something I didn’t expect as well. It’s all one equation to me.

I’m happier with the expansion having gliding in the open world than I expected to be when I bought the expansion. That added value to the expansion to me. The not getting legendaries that were listed doesn’t take away that much value of the expansion to me. But I don’t look at the expansion like a toaster or a computer. I don’t see it as a fixed product. I see it as something ever changing that will sometimes go my way and sometimes go against me, as with raids. I don’t like that, that’s against what I like and what I should want in the game.

I don’t spend my money on a list of features for any MMO. That’s not what I care about, and it’s not what usually will keep me in an MMO. I understand that you do spend your money that way, and that’s fine. But because I understand how I consume things, I’m only obligated to be a good consumer to myself. If keeping myself happy somehow offends you, I’m sorry for that, but it won’t change my behavior.

I see an expansion as one thing and one thing only. A potential for fun, doing stuff I enjoy. And I see it as value per dollar. I don’t want to a bean counter and say I got this and I didn’t get that, because at the end of the day, the only thing really important is that I’m having fun or enjoying myself.

In the case of HoT, I spent my money and I had some fun. Enough fun to justify the money spent. I lost legendary weapons which potentially might take away from the fun I might have had ,but I got gliding in core Tyria which provided with with lots more fun than I expected.

It’s not bad business sense to believe I’m happy when I’m happy. Just as it’s not bad consumer business sense to you to feel unhappy when you’re unhappy.

As someone generally happy with the expansion, who doesn’t particularly need more legendary weapons, I’m find with the decision to cancel them.

The car still drives. I can still get to work. It does everything I personally need it to do.

That’s all I really care about. In my mind it’s all I should care about.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t spend my money on a list of features for any MMO. That’s not what I care about, and it’s not what usually will keep me in an MMO. I understand that you do spend your money that way, and that’s fine. But because I understand how I consume things, I’m only obligated to be a good consumer to myself. If keeping myself happy somehow offends you, I’m sorry for that, but it won’t change my behavior.

You seem to be missing my point entirely. And I have no idea why you’re talking about me being offended. Nowhere in this discussion have I said anything about being offended by your point of view or ordering you change your point of view. That all seemed to come out of left field. And yes, when I buy an MMO expansion, I buy it for the features they listed and advertised as being the expansion.

If I can’t rely on the accuracy of their list of features, I’m not sure what I’m paying for. That’s the whole reason they list out the features – so we’ll know what we’re paying for. I disagree with them altering the list once money has been paid regardless of whether or not the items left out is content that I’ll play or enjoy or not. This is how I see it. It’s not a matter of happiness or unhappiness. It’s not a matter of satisfaction or dissatisfaction with anything that was actually delivered.

It’s a matter of a company delivering what they’ve been paid for and what they said was going to be included in a product. I think it’s unprofessional to do anything else. Even if I loved 100% of HoT, I would still see it as unprofessional to make a list of features and then not deliver all those features. Perhaps eventually they’ll make everything they listed as being included with HoT. But until then, it’s a partial product as far as I’m concerned and is not something I’d want to make a habit of as a business in general.

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Banaghran.7510:

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Why? Why does it matter, why are we still going on about this, it changes nothing.
Asking someone to come up with an analogy that will appease you is pointless.
Anet paused development on Legendaries for stated reasons and people need to let it go.

Who needs an analogy for this anyway? An analogy will do nothing to clarify the already glaringly clear issue.

The only explanation I have for people not admitting to it is choice-supportive bias.

Vayne you need to understand that most people won’t have the thought of pursuing a refund in their minds. I never ever considered it and nobody else will seriously. However I said false advertisement because it was false advertisement – I don’t need to be backed by the law to state a simple fact. Never did I use anything close to the legality of it in my post and I don’t care for it.

And I do not need the god kitten law to tell me wether I should feel cheated or not. I don’t want my money back, I want the game I like so much to stop shooting itself in the leg at every turn. That’s why I didn’t just stop playing and minded my own business. You can’t tell me that I’m not looking at the whole forest and instead focusing on one rotten tree, when said tree seems to be towering and dominating the whole forest.

They cancelled legendaries because they put themselves in a dire position. It’s they own fault for this no matter how you look at it.
They can’t release promised features (like fractal leaderboards, legendary armor and backpiece along others) because hot wasn’t ready to be delivered and still needs to be fixed. And will be for a while longer.
Story was never gw2’s strong point, however it’s getting ridiculous. Everything is either so generic and cheesy it’s just obnoxious or annoying, either it’s comic relief…Mainly the former.
The released 100 levels to the fractals and above 50 you cannot will not find any other levels being played except swamps. It’s the worst possible system to come up with…
Gated content is frustrating, drops are unrewarding and timed so you can only play one thing every two hours even though you finished all the meta events leading to the final one.
The promised difficulty gets nerfed patch after patch.
WvW is just a big disappointment.
I played only a warr and had to learn druid from scratch to have a chance in ranked pvp – not to mention the problems with the league itself where I got pushed around for 30 or so games (won around 4-5) in ruby, then immediately after had 3 long winning streaks to push me to diamond in 3-4 hours. I got a system now that makes me either grind through lossess like a masochist or drop pvp entirely. I don’t claim to be legendary material, but let me drop divisions instead of forcing me against better players or 4-5 games in a row with the same players I lost before and making me sit through so many frustrating games till the system decides I should start winning again.
Pvp is the main selling point of gw2 for me. I play almost everything, but this is why I still log in.

They messed around with everything and finished absolutely nothing…That’s why I can see the rotten tree anywhere I go

Yes – there are good points. One of them is the maps which are stunning – simply beautiful. This is one of the only reasons I still played hot content And I could name others here. That does not however excuse the fact that Hot was a mess and now that they decided they can just abandon projects it makes me feel like nothing they promise will ever have any substance whatsoever and it’s a shame.

Marius.3185:

Vayne you need to understand that most people won’t have the thought of pursuing a refund in their minds. I never ever considered it and nobody else will seriously. However I said false advertisement because it was false advertisement – I don’t need to be backed by the law to state a simple fact. Never did I use anything close to the legality of it in my post and I don’t care for it.

And I do not need the god kitten law to tell me wether I should feel cheated or not. I don’t want my money back, I want the game I like so much to stop shooting itself in the leg at every turn. That’s why I didn’t just stop playing and minded my own business. You can’t tell me that I’m not looking at the whole forest and instead focusing on one rotten tree, when said tree seems to be towering and dominating the whole forest.

They cancelled legendaries because they put themselves in a dire position. It’s they own fault for this no matter how you look at it.
They can’t release promised features (like fractal leaderboards, legendary armor and backpiece along others) because hot wasn’t ready to be delivered and still needs to be fixed. And will be for a while longer.
Story was never gw2’s strong point, however it’s getting ridiculous. Everything is either so generic and cheesy it’s just obnoxious or annoying, either it’s comic relief…Mainly the former.
The released 100 levels to the fractals and above 50 you cannot will not find any other levels being played except swamps. It’s the worst possible system to come up with…
Gated content is frustrating, drops are unrewarding and timed so you can only play one thing every two hours even though you finished all the meta events leading to the final one.
The promised difficulty gets nerfed patch after patch.
WvW is just a big disappointment.
I played only a warr and had to learn druid from scratch to have a chance in ranked pvp – not to mention the problems with the league itself where I got pushed around for 30 or so games (won around 4-5) in ruby, then immediately after had 3 long winning streaks to push me to diamond in 3-4 hours. I got a system now that makes me either grind through lossess like a masochist or drop pvp entirely. I don’t claim to be legendary material, but let me drop divisions instead of forcing me against better players or 4-5 games in a row with the same players I lost before and making me sit through so many frustrating games till the system decides I should start winning again.
Pvp is the main selling point of gw2 for me. I play almost everything, but this is why I still log in.

They messed around with everything and finished absolutely nothing…That’s why I can see the rotten tree anywhere I go

Yes – there are good points. One of them is the maps which are stunning – simply beautiful. This is one of the only reasons I still played hot content And I could name others here. That does not however excuse the fact that Hot was a mess and now that they decided they can just abandon projects it makes me feel like nothing they promise will ever have any substance whatsoever and it’s a shame.

That’s like saying a robbery is a murder, because you feel like it. False advertisement is NOT the same thing as changing your mind about doing something. That’s simply a fact.

You may FEEL like you’ve been ripped off, and that’s okay but that doesn’t mean a crime has been committed.

You haven’t heard me say that canceling legendaries is the best thing since sliced bread. By the same token I don’t think anyone can say this expansion is half an expansion because of a handful of features that didn’t get delivered on time…and like it or not, the title of this thread is talking about whether HoT was half done.

In theory the fractal back piece and another new legendary will be coming Wed, along with some other changes. WvW changes are incoming too.

Then it’ll be like 95% or more of what was advertised.

Then I see they’re fixing the ranger animation for sword, which is something I’ve waited for for a long time. I’m sure they’ll be other things as well.

There are a lot of people dissatisfied with HOT, but there are also a lot of people satisfied with it. But whether you’re satisfied or not, doesn’t make it half an expansion.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising.

Perhaps so, but a company in such a case could still face significant penalties imposed by the state for inaccurate representation of their product, even if there was no intent to deceive. I know that my company has paid quite a bit (as in millions of dollars) under those circumstances.

Keep in mind, also, that choosing to not expend the resources to deliver an advertised product because the company has chosen to spend them on a different product entirely might not be seen as reasonably trying to deliver the advertised product.

Actually, that’s not true at all. A company would not be imposed any penalty if they didn’t break the law. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

The very MOST they would be required to do, by a court, is to refund the money for the purchase of the game, in in this case a portion of the money if the person played it.

In other words, if you join a health spa which advertises a certain machine and then they get rid of it 6 months into your contract, but you did other stuff in the spa, you’d not be entitled to anything.

I don’t know why you would think there would be penalties if no law had been broken.

I am getting it from the fines that have been levied, by the state where I live, against the company I work for. Keep in mind that laws vary from locale to locale. What you know to be true in Tasmania, or remember to have been true in New York, may not be, and probably is not, true everywhere. If it were not true here I can assure you that my employer’s legal team would have kept the company from paying the fines.

It may not be false advertisement if there is no intent to deceive, but there can be, and are in my state, penalties for advertisements that do not match the reality of the product.

These penalties exist for a number of reasons:

1) To ensure that businesses are doing their due diligence to ensure that their advertisements are accurate. Negligence on the part of the company can impact the consumer every bit as much as can willful deception.

2) To ensure that businesses are not hiding false advertisement behind claims of, “lack of intent to deceive,” which can be very difficult to prove.

3) To encourage businesses to correct their mistakes immediately so that the consumer is not left holding the bag when the business makes said mistakes.

Remember that killing someone, unintentionally but as direct and predictable result of one’s willful actions, may not be first degree murder, but that does not mean that there is not another law on the books to punish it. (And no, I am not comparing the legendary weapon situation with murder, just using this as an example of how a lack of intent does not mean that there is not another law covering the act).

Banaghran.7510:

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Well it does change the situation. A hotel without soap and hot water, which most people will use is very different than a hotel that doesn’t offer massages that only a small percentage of the people will use. Or a specific weight machine.

If Anet said, look our next expansion we’re canceling combat, that would be a big deal to just about everyone. But if they said we’re not adding any cow feeding, only a small percentage of the people would be affected.

Anet probably looked at the amount of work creating those legendaries was and then looked at the number of people doing it by percentage and made a business decision.

They didn’t take soap and water out of the game, they took out a service that would affect far less people to provide more of something more people want.

I’m not sure how your analogy even makes sense at all.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

False advertisement law, however, is dependent on intent to deceive. If someone advertises something that’s supposed to be delivered over time and they reasonably try to deliver it and then the situation changes and they don’t, no court in the US anyway would say they were guilty of false advertising.

Perhaps so, but a company in such a case could still face significant penalties imposed by the state for inaccurate representation of their product, even if there was no intent to deceive. I know that my company has paid quite a bit (as in millions of dollars) under those circumstances.

Keep in mind, also, that choosing to not expend the resources to deliver an advertised product because the company has chosen to spend them on a different product entirely might not be seen as reasonably trying to deliver the advertised product.

Actually, that’s not true at all. A company would not be imposed any penalty if they didn’t break the law. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

The very MOST they would be required to do, by a court, is to refund the money for the purchase of the game, in in this case a portion of the money if the person played it.

In other words, if you join a health spa which advertises a certain machine and then they get rid of it 6 months into your contract, but you did other stuff in the spa, you’d not be entitled to anything.

I don’t know why you would think there would be penalties if no law had been broken.

I am getting it from the fines that have been levied, by the state where I live, against the company I work for. Keep in mind that laws vary from locale to locale. What you know to be true in Tasmania, or remember to have been true in New York, may not be, and probably is not, true everywhere. If it were not true here I can assure you that my employer’s legal team would have kept the company from paying the fines.

It may not be false advertisement if there is no intent to deceive, but there can be, and are in my state, penalties for advertisements that do not match the reality of the product.

These penalties exist for a number of reasons:

1) To ensure that businesses are doing their due diligence to ensure that their advertisements are accurate. Negligence on the part of the company can impact the consumer every bit as much as can willful deception.

2) To ensure that businesses are not hiding false advertisement behind claims of, “lack of intent to deceive,” which can be very difficult to prove.

3) To encourage businesses to correct their mistakes immediately so that the consumer is not left holding the bag when the business makes said mistakes.

Remember that killing someone, unintentionally but as direct and predictable result of one’s willful actions, may not be first degree murder, but that does not mean that there is not another law on the books to punish it. (And no, I am not comparing the legendary weapon situation with murder, just using this as an example of how a lack of intent does not mean that there is not another law covering the act).

I don’t think that it’s going out on a limb to say that if you advertised a major feature for something like a game, and you could show that only a very small percentage of the playerbase used that feature and so for the good of hte player base that feature, which wasn’t being used was discontinued after providing 25% of the weapons, you’d get no penalties at all.

I think it would be easy for Anet to say what they did was for the benefit of the playerbase as a whole. and not a small minority that are angry about the change. That’s not breaking any laws, they did in fact start providing this feature and when they saw how few people actually did it they made a decision that they felt was better for the game.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a company that got fined for that.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure how your analogy even makes sense at all.

Because it is not trying to say what you think it does, it merely expresses the amusement one (with or without being the clerk) would feel if customers in a hotel would try to convince other customers that the grievances of the latter group are not that important and that they should be happy with the service.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think that it’s going out on a limb to say that if you advertised a major feature for something like a game, and you could show that only a very small percentage of the playerbase used that feature and so for the good of hte player base that feature, which wasn’t being used was discontinued after providing 25% of the weapons, you’d get no penalties at all.

I think it would be easy for Anet to say what they did was for the benefit of the playerbase as a whole. and not a small minority that are angry about the change. That’s not breaking any laws, they did in fact start providing this feature and when they saw how few people actually did it they made a decision that they felt was better for the game.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a company that got fined for that.

Would be interesting if it worked that way. Doesn’t of course.

The penalties are assigned based on failure to fulfill advertised guarantees, not based on some portion of the customers, even if a majority, not desiring the undelivered advertised elements.

My employer’s fines were assigned for mistakes, not consciously deciding to not fulfill advertised guarantees. Again, I do not claim that these laws are universal but you might want to hold off saying, " That’s not breaking any laws," without the caveat, “where I live,” or, “that I know of.”

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think that it’s going out on a limb to say that if you advertised a major feature for something like a game, and you could show that only a very small percentage of the playerbase used that feature and so for the good of hte player base that feature, which wasn’t being used was discontinued after providing 25% of the weapons, you’d get no penalties at all.

I think it would be easy for Anet to say what they did was for the benefit of the playerbase as a whole. and not a small minority that are angry about the change. That’s not breaking any laws, they did in fact start providing this feature and when they saw how few people actually did it they made a decision that they felt was better for the game.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a company that got fined for that.

Would be interesting if it worked that way. Doesn’t of course.

The penalties are assigned based on failure to fulfill advertised guarantees, not based on some portion of the customers, even if a majority, not desiring the undelivered advertised elements.

My employer’s fines were assigned for mistakes, not consciously deciding to not fulfill advertised guarantees. Again, I do not claim that these laws are universal but you might want to hold off saying, " That’s not breaking any laws," without the caveat, “where I live,” or, “that I know of.”

Nothing in my experience says this is true. Of course, it may be true in your state but I doubt it.

That is to say a game advertising features which it starts to deliver and then realizes isn’t being used changes the features, with a terms of service that says that can happen, (and yes I know TOS doesn’t override law)….I just don’t believe there’s anything at all illegal here and vague references to your job I’m sure aren’t that exact situation.

Edit: AFAIK this is all it ever said on the website about new legendaries and I don’t know what’s on the box itself.

“I know you’re all dying for more information on new legendary weapons, but we’d like to delve into them more with a dedicated blog post in the future. For now, I’ll say that we’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates. The methods by which you’ll craft these legendary weapons are similar to the existing system, but we’ve refined it into more of a journey, similar to precursor crafting. We also want to better preserve the prestige associated with crafting a legendary weapon, so the new legendary weapons, and their precursors, will not be tradable. Keep an eye out—we can’t wait to start showing them off when they’re ready!”

Vayne.8563:

Nothing in my experience says this is true. Of course, it may be true in your state but I doubt it.

You may very well be right. I am sure that my company paid the fines, not because they were actually in violation of state law, but out of a sense of civic duty to help fund important social programs during tough economic times.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Nothing in my experience says this is true. Of course, it may be true in your state but I doubt it.

You may very well be right. I am sure that my company paid the fines, not because they were actually in violation of state law, but out of a sense of civic duty to help fund important social programs during tough economic times.

Sarcasm aside, unless the situations are exactly parallel and I don’t know that they are, I’m just taking your word for it.

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Vayne.8563:

Banaghran.7510:

Imagine this discussion at the reception of a hotel, where one guest is trying to convince the other that the absence of soap and warm water was not so bad, because there still was electricity, the desk clerk smiling in the corner…

It’s a terrible analogy because soap and warm water are basics, where is legendary weapons are luxuries. More like if they said there was a massage room, and I wouldn’t have made use of it anyway, and they no longer offered it, even though it was still in the ad, That’s more what we’re dealing with here.

Comparing legendary weapons to soap and water isn’t really the same thing as comparing it to an exercise room, or a tennis court. I don’t go to a hotel to play tennis, but I do expect to shower.

Feel free to replace the mentioned issues with more fitting ones, does it make the depicted situation less preposterous to you? If yes, why?

Well it does change the situation. A hotel without soap and hot water, which most people will use is very different than a hotel that doesn’t offer massages that only a small percentage of the people will use. Or a specific weight machine.

If Anet said, look our next expansion we’re canceling combat, that would be a big deal to just about everyone. But if they said we’re not adding any cow feeding, only a small percentage of the people would be affected.

Anet probably looked at the amount of work creating those legendaries was and then looked at the number of people doing it by percentage and made a business decision.

They didn’t take soap and water out of the game, they took out a service that would affect far less people to provide more of something more people want.

I’m not sure how your analogy even makes sense at all.

Sheesh Vayne, I’d say even your analogy is all wrong. It’s like the hotel actually has a massage service and they advertised having new themed rooms like a jungle or something. You get there and the jungle room is under renovation due to whatever reason (room above sprung a leak and caused water damage, or tearing walls down to expand further, etc,etc,etc,). So they offer you the beach side themed room they already have instead.

The “massage” service is still available. They brought in legendary journeys, precursor crafting, etc. it just doesn’t have that particular theme or aesthetic.

Git gud Vayne.