Guild Wars 2

Somehow, when raids were first announced I was hoping for the return of FoW and UW with all it’s quest chains but harder (not just more hp for monsters lazy fix). I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours. That reaching the end of it all was the result of a lot of time playing carefully with a sword over your head all the time instead of just a linear boss chain that you can restart with next to 0 consequences other than rage quitters being themselves. UW was a good example of a nice balance between risk and reward that I think is missing in the current game as it is.

Anybody else who feel like me or I’m just being a nostalgic fool here? If Anet is reading this, are there plans regarding UW and/or Fow coming back with Dhum etc.?

Something being hard or not depends of the time too.

If you search old GW2 video you’ll see people complaining that AC explorable was impossible, in GW1 UW was considered too hard and punishing but now you can solo it with heroes, the devs can make a content that they think is so hard that they can’t beat it, later there will be people farming it.

Look at our raids, it was supposed to be hard for 10 players in full gear, now we see party of 4~5 players killing many bosses.

I wouldn’t say fool, but nostalgic certainly. I think any older gamer can look back with fondness on all the stuff they pushed their way through. But, if we were given that same thing now we’d hate it.

Punishment in general has been removed as much as possible. In general encounters are kept at a <20min goal. And it’s not just ANet but every game I can think of that I’ve played past like 2010. Having short stints that can be failed without reprocussion just allows a more casual (note, actual definition of casual, not the gaming term to mean inexperienced player) playstyle.

Personally I love the change. Being locked into a 5 hour raid is something I just can’t/don’t want to do anymore. But, I can still look back with good memories of it.

Yeah a revamp of UW and FOW would be great, but not with a… if you wipe your done setting… seeing how GW2 doesn’t have any res skills this wouldn’t work well.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Somehow, when raids were first announced I was hoping for the return of FoW and UW with all it’s quest chains but harder (not just more hp for monsters lazy fix). I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours. That reaching the end of it all was the result of a lot of time playing carefully with a sword over your head all the time instead of just a linear boss chain that you can restart with next to 0 consequences other than rage quitters being themselves. UW was a good example of a nice balance between risk and reward that I think is missing in the current game as it is.

Anybody else who feel like me or I’m just being a nostalgic fool here? If Anet is reading this, are there plans regarding UW and/or Fow coming back with Dhum etc.?

I thought UW was incredibly dull and uncompromisingly punishing for small mistakes. FoW was similarly dull, although more flexible in relation to “oops” moments. Both were a lot more linear than the OP makes it seem: you had a choice about when to tackle each element, but no choice about whether to do them (well, a little wiggle room for FoW).

The rewards were also lackluster. I ran a lot of FoW without getting much of anything other than access to spend my ecto on obbi armor. I ran UW less often, but never got anything memorable.

I am glad that GW2’s raids look nothing like either of those. (And I say this as someone who has yet to complete a single raid wing.)

Sounds like the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia to me.

See this right here?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours.

Yeah, this was fine when you’re a kid with all the time in the world. Now? Not so much. Gaming has mostly evolved past this because the average gamer is an adult and recreational time is precious. That’s my number one issue with the hardest PvE content available – raiding – countless hours spent learning a fight so that we can farm it easily…eventually.

There’s still members of the community who seek out challenges and embrace this kind of difficulty, but of course try their very best to power through the content as quickly as possible.

I’d definitely welcome more moderately challenging content, but I value an engaging and interesting encounter more so than one that is just difficult for its own sake.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Somehow, when raids were first announced I was hoping for the return of FoW and UW with all it’s quest chains but harder (not just more hp for monsters lazy fix). I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours. That reaching the end of it all was the result of a lot of time playing carefully with a sword over your head all the time instead of just a linear boss chain that you can restart with next to 0 consequences other than rage quitters being themselves. UW was a good example of a nice balance between risk and reward that I think is missing in the current game as it is.

Anybody else who feel like me or I’m just being a nostalgic fool here? If Anet is reading this, are there plans regarding UW and/or Fow coming back with Dhum etc.?

I thought UW was incredibly dull and uncompromisingly punishing for small mistakes. FoW was similarly dull, although more flexible in relation to “oops” moments. Both were a lot more linear than the OP makes it seem: you had a choice about when to tackle each element, but no choice about whether to do them (well, a little wiggle room for FoW).

The rewards were also lackluster. I ran a lot of FoW without getting much of anything other than access to spend my ecto on obbi armor. I ran UW less often, but never got anything memorable.

I am glad that GW2’s raids look nothing like either of those. (And I say this as someone who has yet to complete a single raid wing.)

I guess it’s a case of to each their own. It is true that you had unavoidable quests but I far prefer having the liberty of how, when and in which order I can do most of them. The current raid extreme linearity is disappointing to me.

You also can’t explore the raid the way you could explore the UW or FoW is also something I miss. The feeling of being somewhere else alien and far and dangerous. I guess it’s the immersion that I miss.

Ofc to those who see time as a problem I can’t fault you for it. It was a time consuming task even if ppl eventually could run it all relatively quickly in the end. It’s just that, to me, it felt more balanced in terms or risk/investment/reward.

The real danger of loosing all progress is something I genuinely miss in gw2. But then again, I’m someone who hate the WP system for making the world feel so small despite being larger than it used to be. I guess immersion is really important to me when I play such a game.

BTW, for those who speak as if nobody with a full time job can afford to play such a content I happen to have a full time job too but I don’t see why I couldn’t do it on weekends or even some evenings…

Anyway, I will put this under ‘nostalgia’ I guess.

I can’t even coordinate with enough people to try the Vale Guardian, and the few times I tried everyone just walked out the door. Can’t imagine any pleasure doing even more punishing stuff.

Ardid.7203:

I can’t even coordinate with enough people to try the Vale Guardian, and the few times I tried everyone just walked out the door. Can’t imagine any pleasure doing even more punishing stuff.

That’s the thing though. It was nowhere near as painful to fill a group for UW, even without anything close to the cool lfg tool we have now, than raid can be atm.

The current raid feels more like some kind of guitar hero that ask ppl to repeat a precise dance (dancing heroes?) with a more or less flexible team comp until it’s good enough. The difficulty in UW was mostly trying not to to chew more than you could handle at any given moment. It was more careful aggro management than all needing to jump inside green circle and avoid blue until 75% then clap your hands. I never was a fan of that kind of mechanics which make team recruitment far less flexible and thus harder.

For me the major problem is the number of people and the extension of time needed. I don’t think is really a problem with the game, but a problem with having real life and not so close relation with my guildmates.
I don’t have any problem with the mechanics (Although they could be more flexible, profession-wise, IMO), but with the people (Including myself).

I really hope for something to appear that doesn’t require a 10 people party, who can leave at any moment. 5-6 is enough.

Not everyone has time to grind every piece of armor on fractals, to go raids, to get kicked from group because your build is wrong, so you can go farm new items, spend more gold, get an another build and repeat the raid 100 more times.

Welcome to grindwars, where more time = more grind …

I haven’t gone far into raids, I met the guardians, and so far I can say that : all you need is condi, isn’t it stupid? I remember that I sold my condi set BECAUSE IT WAS USELESS, and no one wanted you, so now they put a dungeon that needs it. Shall I grind it again …

Don’t forget that there ofc will be something after raids for players with items, so they can farm even more … I have no ascended set, not a single piece of it and I played on fractals at least 20-30 games with HoT released etc. The difficulty isn’t same for everyone, as some players have fun exploring map or doing other things like pvp.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The current raid feels more like some kind of guitar hero that ask ppl to repeat a precise dance (dancing heroes?)

… it’s called Dance Dance Revolution, it was the predecessor to guitar hero… where were you in the early 2000’s?

I still have songs from that stuck in my head and I didn’t even really play it.

Ardid.7203:

I can’t even coordinate with enough people to try the Vale Guardian, and the few times I tried everyone just walked out the door. Can’t imagine any pleasure doing even more punishing stuff.

This was also true for UW and FoW in GW1 — there were long periods of time when it was very, very difficult to find groups unless you knew how to speedclear (and then that really didn’t fit the OP’s idea of fun content).

It takes time for people to figure out how to tackle challenging content and once they do, some trainers/teachers are able to make it easier for novices to learn. That’s how I was brought into FoW/UW and how I came to be able teach others to do it.

The same thing is already happening for raids. Over time, more people will participate and some will decide they like it (and some won’t).

(I still disagree that UW/FoW were as fun as described; they definitely were more challenging than most HM dungeons and missions.)

Jerus.4350:

I wouldn’t say fool, but nostalgic certainly. I think any older gamer can look back with fondness on all the stuff they pushed their way through. But, if we were given that same thing now we’d hate it.

Punishment in general has been removed as much as possible. In general encounters are kept at a <20min goal. And it’s not just ANet but every game I can think of that I’ve played past like 2010. Having short stints that can be failed without reprocussion just allows a more casual (note, actual definition of casual, not the gaming term to mean inexperienced player) playstyle.

Personally I love the change. Being locked into a 5 hour raid is something I just can’t/don’t want to do anymore. But, I can still look back with good memories of it.

Fondness? Hardly … “oh look stupid suicidal NPC got itself killed and everyone gets kicked out”

Khisanth.2948:

Jerus.4350:

I wouldn’t say fool, but nostalgic certainly. I think any older gamer can look back with fondness on all the stuff they pushed their way through. But, if we were given that same thing now we’d hate it.

Punishment in general has been removed as much as possible. In general encounters are kept at a <20min goal. And it’s not just ANet but every game I can think of that I’ve played past like 2010. Having short stints that can be failed without reprocussion just allows a more casual (note, actual definition of casual, not the gaming term to mean inexperienced player) playstyle.

Personally I love the change. Being locked into a 5 hour raid is something I just can’t/don’t want to do anymore. But, I can still look back with good memories of it.

Fondness? Hardly … “oh look stupid suicidal NPC got itself killed and everyone gets kicked out”

This was indeed a frustrating part of that kind of content.

IIRC Wooden Potatoes put out a video showing that Tyria 3D found a Guild Wars 2 wire frame map of FoW including each of the areas. Will it be a reality? Who knows, but Anet tends to support popular player requests and FoW/UW have been requested a lot. So we can only hope and wait to see

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

IIRC Wooden Potatoes put out a video showing that Tyria 3D found a Guild Wars 2 wire frame map of FoW including each of the areas. Will it be a reality? Who knows, but Anet tends to support popular player requests and FoW/UW have been requested a lot. So we can only hope and wait to see

I’ll look it up on his channel then. I’m very curious about that.

For future Hard level content, I hope it isn’t raids.

I do not like raids at all. Not because of the difficulty but because there is too much playing the waiting game instead of actually playing the game.

Khisanth.2948:

Jerus.4350:

I wouldn’t say fool, but nostalgic certainly. I think any older gamer can look back with fondness on all the stuff they pushed their way through. But, if we were given that same thing now we’d hate it.

Punishment in general has been removed as much as possible. In general encounters are kept at a <20min goal. And it’s not just ANet but every game I can think of that I’ve played past like 2010. Having short stints that can be failed without reprocussion just allows a more casual (note, actual definition of casual, not the gaming term to mean inexperienced player) playstyle.

Personally I love the change. Being locked into a 5 hour raid is something I just can’t/don’t want to do anymore. But, I can still look back with good memories of it.

Fondness? Hardly … “oh look stupid suicidal NPC got itself killed and everyone gets kicked out”

Yeah, escorts can be a headache, but at the same time one of my all time favorite completions was an escort. Wasn’t a GW game but original EQ, just like the current Bloomhunger and raids there was tons of complaining about it, but for those of us that were able to complete it, well it was a memorable moment.