Guild Wars 2

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

They won’t.

Yes, what would raids be without more tools to discriminate against our fellow players?

Remember guys, this is the culture that ANet wanted to bring to the game. Until now we were doing perfectly fine without them.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, what would raids be without more tools to discriminate against our fellow players?

Remember guys, this is the culture that ANet wanted to bring to the game. Until now we were doing perfectly fine without them.

Well I need to eb able to remove you from the group if you are not pulling your weight or holding the rest of us back. These tools would be a welcome and fair addition to the UI.

You don’t need tool to see if someone is bad or not.

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

People wont want your kitten in the raid because you think its all about gear spec and dps, Anet have stated many times that the new content will need more balanced groups not just glass canons, you’ll be leading the wipe guild to zero glory.

Well I need to eb able to remove you from the group if you are not pulling your weight or holding the rest of us back. These tools would be a welcome and fair addition to the UI.

Yuuuuup.

They asked, and they received.

Raids are basically guild content (they’re not meant for PUGs). You should be able to trust your own guild members.

If you wish to inspect people, you can use the API to do so. Those you want to inspect will have to give you their API key however, or use that website.

As for DPS meters, it’ll probably never happen officially. The most you could hope for is the ability to write your own combat log to a text file.

If they implemented DPS meters it would mean the death of bearbow!

That its anti-GW2 philosophy.

I recomend you to find a game that suits you better.

Someone open a window. It smells like troll in here.

I doubt a DPS meter would mean much here anyway. If Anet does their job correctly, there will be focus on control over damage for some group members and a need to bring defensive support, not just offensive DPS boosting support.

A DPS meter makes sense in a trinity game where your deeps players have 1 job essentially. Hopefully this new content will require enough variety to make such a tool less than practical.

Substance E.4852:

I doubt a DPS meter would mean much here anyway. If Anet does their job correctly, there will be focus on control over damage for some group members and a need to bring defensive support, not just offensive DPS boosting support.

A DPS meter makes sense in a trinity game where your deeps players have 1 job essentially. Hopefully this new content will require enough variety to make such a tool less than practical.

Well yes hopefully. Having said that, there are some good tools like recount that not only measure dps, but aggro, healing, damage taken, damage done etc etc. I’m sure something quite tailored to GW2 unique combat could be done.

Silicato.4603:

That its anti-GW2 philosophy.

I recomend you to find a game that suits you better.

Hate to kitten on your parade but Raids will not be “play how you want” if you actually want to beat them.

He emphasized that this was intended to be coordinated endgame content, not something a PUG can tackle:

http://massivelyop.com/2015/08/31/pax-prime-2015-guild-wars-2-is-never-getting-a-raid-finder/

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

Mitch.4781:

Substance E.4852:

I doubt a DPS meter would mean much here anyway. If Anet does their job correctly, there will be focus on control over damage for some group members and a need to bring defensive support, not just offensive DPS boosting support.

A DPS meter makes sense in a trinity game where your deeps players have 1 job essentially. Hopefully this new content will require enough variety to make such a tool less than practical.

Well yes hopefully. Having said that, there are some good tools like recount that not only measure dps, but aggro, healing, damage taken, damage done etc etc. I’m sure something quite tailored to GW2 unique combat could be done.

Save recount for games like WoW. Guild wars 2 is a very different game. I personally don’t want that, and I’m sure the majority of gw2 players and ArenaNet as well would agree with that statement.

Both not needed.

First of all, dps meter is a noob sign in pretty much all MMOs. DPS classes just stand there spaming their big hits and using every single cooldown just to compete with other fellow dps classes over a number. If you’re experienced and geared for a raid, it would not matter if you do 7.6k and another dps guy does 7.9k…

Plus, dps meter in GW2 where you have to defend yourself, is just as stupid as the typical noob who rolled an elementalist and boasting about doing 13k dps, while 13k happens once in the fight for 4 seconds, and when Ice Bow is over the dps falls down to 5k for the rest of the fight.

Gear inspect is also not needed, since first of all you know your guild members, and second, if you pug you can always “Gear link or get the boot”

DPS meeter is just stupid. What’s so funny is that people had problems with dungeons the first few weeks or even months in GW2 and was saying DPS was the problems in the teams and that they wanted DPS meeter for just exactly the same reaseon.

I can do all dungeons in this game without any specific group combination or stats as long as their level and EQ is at level or over. Well I can imagine some Dungeons would be alot slower with a PVT only group but it is still possible.

“Play how you want” Well ofcourse you cant play how you want when doing this new raid and I am pretty sure that you can Play how you want in a dungeon iether. Like someone who tries to build a house inside a dungeon wont be to much help to the group. But having the stats of your own desire would and should not impact on if you can compleate the dungeon or not. What matters is your placement, timing, pushing buttons at right times, doing jumping puzzles without falling, being coordinated to do all things with timing and precision that is content that a PUG can not tackle.

So in short, I love playing my Carrion Engineer and I will not change my build just becouse someone says I have to and I don’t think Anet meant for that iether.
So now I will await the day I can play Raid before I say anything more but a DPS-meeter is not needed as Devs have even said it is not something for PUGs.

If you can’t get into a guild that is coordinated enough that everyone actually brings good specs and gears appropriately for the challenge then, well, a DPS meter and gear inspection is not going to help you.

Reap what you hath sown, ANet. . .

can we have some air freshener please in here. Toxic 13 year olds harassing mature players and dictating what is good and what is not. No thx, thats what this will bring, i say nai.

Gunsnroll.2657:

You don’t need tool to see if someone is bad or not.

Apart from that, if we pretend, that it’s realy as hard as they promise and we all wanted it to be, first tries would be with known ppl using a kind of voice-communication.

Thinking long term, there will be a time, when you can pug it (just remember first days of tequatl^^). On this point, some information about you pug-mates of cause would be helpfull, from preventing ppl to kick unexperienced player joining over and over again. Here gear and build don’t matter at all. Having the right one dont mean you know how to handle it.
The easy way would be to apply a title to those who beat it once and a few times (lets say 10).
So when you like to just do it later, just take a look at ppl who got the title for proof they beat it.
If you want to just find out how things work just open/join a party, who dont ask for this title.
So all would be happy.

Be aware we are obviously dealing with a “LFG COF1 Zerk Warr ELE 10k AP+ Gearcheck or kick” kid here.

Killyox.3950:

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

So the other guy that constantly died still did 30% more damage than the guy that was alive the whole time?

That is exactly the reason we need a dps meter. The fight was dragging on so long because the second guy did 30% less dps than a dead guy.

We definitely need some metrics to tell us why we can’t complete a fight. If you can’t figure out what is wrong then you can’t fix it. damage meters are a minimum barrier of entry for raids.

Raids will fail as content if we can not accurately determine who/what needs to improve.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Killyox.3950:

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

So the other guy that constantly died still did 30% more damage than the guy that was alive the whole time?

That is exactly the reason we need a dps meter. The fight was dragging on so long because the second guy did 30% less dps than a dead guy.

We definitely need some metrics to tell us why we can’t complete a fight. If you can’t figure out what is wrong then you can’t fix it. damage meters are a minimum barrier of entry for raids.

Raids will fail as content if we can not accurately determine who/what needs to improve.

the question is easy to answer – the one who needs to improve is the DEAD guy …

no dungeon boss has some kind of enrage mechanic or a timer – there is literally no reason to nuke the kitten out of him as quick as possible if everybody survives. The only reason to fail a dungeon boss is that ALL of you die

DPS is a useless metric – if a rev uses his energy to keep up protection and might and refuses to do dps aside from AA is he weaker than a ele who nukes the kitten out of fire and air but never ever procs a heal or a shield?

The ones who keep an eye on control and support are way more worthful than the ones who just faceroll their buttons to gain the largest number because they take care of their party members instead of focusing on stupid numbers

The thing with dps meters is that they might actually lead to more diversity. The way it is now the only thing people can judge is your profession and your weapon/utilities. People have already calculated which professions and builds do the max dps. So in the absence of dps meters they will simply ask for just those builds. Games with dps meters tend to be more open. As long as you do the dps required with your kooky build then the raid leader is fine. I always liked to top the meters with unpopular builds. Here in GW2 I wouldn’t even get in a raid.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Killyox.3950:

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

So the other guy that constantly died still did 30% more damage than the guy that was alive the whole time?

That is exactly the reason we need a dps meter. The fight was dragging on so long because the second guy did 30% less dps than a dead guy.

We definitely need some metrics to tell us why we can’t complete a fight. If you can’t figure out what is wrong then you can’t fix it. damage meters are a minimum barrier of entry for raids.

Raids will fail as content if we can not accurately determine who/what needs to improve.

DPS is not the measure of success. Not for what GW2 has planned. Already, the developers have described a fight in which there are two teams, with only one focused on damaging the boss (the other being concerned with clearing an escape to avoid a boss’s damage).

Further, proactive support is a massive, massive part of this game. Boons and conditions are everywhere and classes like Guardian and Mesmer might not hit the DPS figures of an Elementalist, but you can be darn sure that without them, that same Elementalist’s figures would be much lower.

Thankfully, you shouldn’t need a meter to be able to tell whether a player is using their class well. Skills have strong visual effects, many are tied to the weapons being used and boons and conditions appear for all to see. Not only that, but raids in GW2 seem to be aimed towards groups of friends and guildies. If you seriously want to put together a raid group, you should perhaps be looking towards PvP and making friends there, as that’s the game mode that Colin described as being where people ‘use the combat system to its full potential’. Talking with a few high level Fractal groups wouldn’t hurt you either.

This isn’t wow. No dps meters or gear check! This is supposed to be a fun game, not work.

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

They aren’t much desired and demanded though. You’ve listed all the reasons why they shouldn’t add either feature in.

Anet wants people to work to together and encourage and support other players. What it doesn’t want is ppl being stopped from playing content because someone believes another player isn’t up to their level based on arbitrary measurements.

The culture of kicking people is likely the prominent reason MMO’s are cutting back on raids. Why would a new player ever try a raid when being new is forever held against them.

Everyone starts off having to learn at some point…even you

Loex.5104:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Killyox.3950:

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

So the other guy that constantly died still did 30% more damage than the guy that was alive the whole time?

That is exactly the reason we need a dps meter. The fight was dragging on so long because the second guy did 30% less dps than a dead guy.

We definitely need some metrics to tell us why we can’t complete a fight. If you can’t figure out what is wrong then you can’t fix it. damage meters are a minimum barrier of entry for raids.

Raids will fail as content if we can not accurately determine who/what needs to improve.

the question is easy to answer – the one who needs to improve is the DEAD guy …

no dungeon boss has some kind of enrage mechanic or a timer – there is literally no reason to nuke the kitten out of him as quick as possible if everybody survives. The only reason to fail a dungeon boss is that ALL of you die

DPS is a useless metric – if a rev uses his energy to keep up protection and might and refuses to do dps aside from AA is he weaker than a ele who nukes the kitten out of fire and air but never ever procs a heal or a shield?

The ones who keep an eye on control and support are way more worthful than the ones who just faceroll their buttons to gain the largest number because they take care of their party members instead of focusing on stupid numbers

Raids will obviously have an enrage timer, you have to have one or raids won’t be challenging. It could be a soft enrage, or a hard enrage but it must be present.

If there is no enrage timer then you will just see full groups of nomad geared guardians who just facetank every raid boss while watching a movie. They are literally unkillable but they do next to no dps.

Anyone who was around at launch knows this all too well. Before traits were op and everyone was in full ascended gear and knew about stacking, the optimal dungeon strategy was 2 bunker guards and tanky everyone else. you just ran around at range and slowly killed every boss. Nothing could kill you and there was no time limit so even though it took a long time there was no danger.

And since you must have an enrage timer to prevent cheesing the boss via tanking you must also have a damage meter to make sure your damaging classes are doing damage.

People seem to be confusing support and damage like they are mutually exclusive. In WoW your healers and tanks don’t do a lot of damage because they are supporting the party. In GW2 your support abilities have almost no effect on your dps. the reflect healing guardian can still do 90% of the dps as a full offensive guardian. The PS warrior giving 25 might, empowering allies and dropping banners still does 70% the dps of a full dps warrior.

Just like any other tool you need to use it intelligently. Obviously your PS warrior and reflect guardian will not top the dps charts, but they should still be doing decent dps, and if your ele is at the bottom of the chart then you know where the problem is.

Yes, GW2 needs lfg filters. The filters should at least have: stats, profession, level, traits, achievement points. There should also be this dps meter so leaders could observe if one is slacking or playing the profession wrong. At the best there should also be keybind checkers etc. to identify if one is a filthy clicker and of course an autokick feature if one tries to chance gear and traits during the instance.

TBH I’m the kind of player that real like a DPSmeter and a gearcheck BUT it usualy bring a very bad behavior from a huge part of the players.
Your post OP is exactly the reason why those feature shouldn’t make it to the game.
I use DPSmeter with my friend when we go full kitten on event/dungeon and gearcheck to see what run a player next to me when I find him efficient with an unconventionnal build. Not to cast away other players.
I’m against all kind of meta. You are more expected to have a smooth run with 5 players that know well their classes than with 5 full zerk that think they know what they do. Most of the time a full zerk run is barely faster than a nonmeta run. Most of players barely understand what they do, they just copy what they’ve been told, they have no sense of rotation or “skill” and therefore you lose the efficiency that made the meta in the first place. You can be full zerk with 5k ap (what is ask most of the time, proof that exp player aren’t that exp…) with all the right spec, it doesn’t mean you’re good. Just that you know how to copy a build from internet.

And if raids require “skill” and not “pure dps” (exactly the opposite of dungeon) then DPSmeter and gearcheck isn’t of any help since you can’t judge someone skill before you see him in action.

Gynok.1756:

Yes, GW2 needs lfg filters. The filters should at least have: stats, profession, level, traits, achievement points. There should also be this dps meter so leaders could observe if one is slacking or playing the profession wrong. At the best there should also be keybind checkers etc. to identify if one is a filthy clicker and of course an autokick feature if one tries to chance gear and traits during the instance.

Great idea!

Mitch.4781:

These tools would be a welcome and fair addition to the UI.

No they wouldn’t. I have no problems with a personal DPS Meter though.

No way. No how. Never.

Maybe (big maybe) if there was some way to ensure people would use them only in a productive fashion, but other games prove that wouldn’t be the case and that they would just be a source of endless drama and hate.

I would rather see an ingame meter of how often a player has kicked other players or complained about their gear, the profession they play, how they play their character, etc in chat (in a video game) – so that I could actively avoid those players. That would be 100 times more useful than a group dps meter.

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

Laughed my kitten off.

>Implying someone with full DPS ascended gear means they’ll be a decent team player in a raid

You might as well ask Anet for “IRL people-inspects so that we can read their mind to see how good a player they are”. Because the likelihood of getting either would be the same.

Nah this won’t happen and doesn’t work sorry.

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

Laughed my kitten off.

>Implying someone with full DPS ascended gear means they’ll be a decent team player in a raid

You might as well ask Anet for “IRL people-inspects so that we can read their mind to see how good a player they are”. Because the likelihood of getting either would be the same.

These are the rules for my raid. If you do not meet them, then you can’t join us, sorry. Hopefully you can find another group to carry you.

Mitch.4781:

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

Laughed my kitten off.

>Implying someone with full DPS ascended gear means they’ll be a decent team player in a raid

You might as well ask Anet for “IRL people-inspects so that we can read their mind to see how good a player they are”. Because the likelihood of getting either would be the same.

These are the rules for my raid. If you do not meet them, then you can’t join us, sorry. Hopefully you can find another group to carry you.

LOL

Good luck enforcing those rules when Anet don’t give you gear inspects

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Killyox.3950:

People think that dps is the only metric that is important. What if someone doesn’t get downed, avoids all dmg and performs fight mechanically very good but does 30% less dmg than a dude that needs to be constantly revived and messes up mechanics making fight all around harder because NUMBERZ!

Anybody remembers tanks in wow standing in aoe to ramp up vengeance? to dps moar ?:P

So the other guy that constantly died still did 30% more damage than the guy that was alive the whole time?

That is exactly the reason we need a dps meter. The fight was dragging on so long because the second guy did 30% less dps than a dead guy.

We definitely need some metrics to tell us why we can’t complete a fight. If you can’t figure out what is wrong then you can’t fix it. damage meters are a minimum barrier of entry for raids.

Raids will fail as content if we can not accurately determine who/what needs to improve.

No, you fail to see what I said. Dude did more dps but failed at mechanics, mechanics that could kill other people or make boss heal himself or not do something else that ended up messing the fight because he was tunnel vision dpsing.

If I switch to Ventari to have that anti projectile bubble to keep raids kitten safe it costs me dps but people live. If someone else does not do it because he wants NUMBAZ! then you die for example.

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

Laughed my kitten off.

>Implying someone with full DPS ascended gear means they’ll be a decent team player in a raid

You might as well ask Anet for “IRL people-inspects so that we can read their mind to see how good a player they are”. Because the likelihood of getting either would be the same.

These are the rules for my raid. If you do not meet them, then you can’t join us, sorry. Hopefully you can find another group to carry you.

LOL

Good luck enforcing those rules when Anet don’t give you gear inspects

People will still be required to ping gear and state their builds until Anet gives us a more convenient and needed alternative. The players are crying out for this. My Elite group won’t waste time carrying people who won’t listen or stray from the orders.

Sorry, but you can’t come along until u prove urself. Not wasting time on scrubs and people who stand in aoe.

“my elite group” yeah… . Ping gear? How is that a problem to ping fake gear:P

I also don’t see players crying out for this. I see most people here bashing the idea actually.

I wouldn’t want dps meters in GW2 even though in wow on raids i am constantly #1 in guild. Diff kind of experience here.

You can also easily tell if someone messes up or not.

Mitch.4781:

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Bryzy.2719:

Mitch.4781:

Especially given the new Raids. i want to be able to make sure I’m bringing decently geared and specced people. If I don’t like the build, I want them out of the group. Same deal if your dps is not cutting it. With raids and legendary rewards, group leaders need to be able to cut the dead wood or weak links.

I hope Anet updates the UI and gives us these much desired and demanded features.

Laughed my kitten off.

>Implying someone with full DPS ascended gear means they’ll be a decent team player in a raid

You might as well ask Anet for “IRL people-inspects so that we can read their mind to see how good a player they are”. Because the likelihood of getting either would be the same.

These are the rules for my raid. If you do not meet them, then you can’t join us, sorry. Hopefully you can find another group to carry you.

LOL

Good luck enforcing those rules when Anet don’t give you gear inspects

People will still be required to ping gear and state their builds until Anet gives us a more convenient and needed alternative. The players are crying out for this. My Elite group won’t waste time carrying people who won’t listen or stray from the orders.

Sorry, but you can’t come along until u prove urself. Not wasting time on scrubs and people who stand in aoe.

By pinging gear wont prove how good or bad a player is. Most player who are bad are actually just following recent metas and do not bother to learn how to play better than just zerker and stack. That’s what is most important to most at the moment, not how they play.

Over the many years I have been playing mmos and raiding I find the people who demand the most from others are the heaviest back packs. They also tend to point fingers first and constantly look for a “better” raid group . Just a personal observation.

That’s why I’m in a guild with people I like who have experience with group content.