Guild Wars 2

I want to switch my main character but to make one that I would be satisfied with, i want to level it to 80 without tomes which means lots of PvE.

I have a hard time stepping back into PvE after the brain dead feeling of going through the PvE in the vanilla area that insists on hand holding(still dont have map completion yet after playing for over 3 years).

So, has the difficulty improved in HoT? and are there any plans of making changes to the difficulty of the base game.

It’s no more difficult than Orr.

The difficulty has improved quite a bit. Now, you can’t kill everything by just walking up and auto attacking.

The difficulty of the overworld gets overrated. Except the Chak, those guys are nasty. But most enemies have fairly obvious patterns with obvious animations. So long as you are paying attention to what kind of enemy it is, you shouldn’t have much trouble surviving the jungle. It’ll take some experience to learn what the guys do, but once you do it isn’t so bad.

Well I went to it after not playing for year and was completely fine. Occasionally I get killed by pocket raptors or hylek if I’m not paying attention but it really isn’t that hard.
It is harder than Orr, but not much harder than the Silverwastes. YMMV.

It’s also likely going to be nerfed because people have been complaining about it. Joy.

HoT is similar to Orr, except the enemies have half the health, are more annoying and do triple the damage.

Personally, I just leveled a necro and it was far easier than I remembered, but I also used to play without traits while naked, while now it’s just naked. If you want the pre-nerf experience, you’ll need to be in +20 level areas up to around 40, +10 up to around 70, then +5 to 80.

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

I didn’t play for a year, have a single ascended weapon that I haven’t even been using, was playing on a character I speed levelled to 80 with crafting and tomes and didn’t even read my traits properly before going around the maps. If I’m not within the average for skill this games players base is just sad.

Demented Sheep.1642:

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

I didn’t play for a year, have a single ascended weapon that haven’t even been using, was playing on a character I speed levelled to 80 with crafting and tomes and didn’t even read my traits properly before going around the maps. If I’m not within the average for skill this games players base is just sad.

congratz, youre a hardcore player
yep, im so sad, that i just went to play other games instead
brilliant business strategy, yes?

If you treat each death as a learning experience (and there will be plenty of deaths), you’ll be amazed at how quickly you can excel in the HoT maps. Died many times while running past pocket raptors? Try fighting them. Can’t take them all down? Bring attacks with AoE damage and cleave.

Along with you gaining personal experience and tactics, your characters will as well. Tired of being kited by hylek assassins? When you gain Stealth Detection, you’ll become the hunter. Can’t escape from a chak filled tunnel? When you learn to use their wallows, you’ll have more escape routes.

Basically, the more you play, the more both you and your characters learn. Just don’t forget that first part: You’re expected to actively learn from your mistakes

battledrone.8315:

Demented Sheep.1642:

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

I didn’t play for a year, have a single ascended weapon that haven’t even been using, was playing on a character I speed levelled to 80 with crafting and tomes and didn’t even read my traits properly before going around the maps. If I’m not within the average for skill this games players base is just sad.

congratz, youre a hardcore player
yep, im so sad, that i just went to play other games instead
brilliant business strategy, yes?

I’m NOT a hardcore player, that was the point.

Demented Sheep.1642:

battledrone.8315:

Demented Sheep.1642:

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

I didn’t play for a year, have a single ascended weapon that haven’t even been using, was playing on a character I speed levelled to 80 with crafting and tomes and didn’t even read my traits properly before going around the maps. If I’m not within the average for skill this games players base is just sad.

congratz, youre a hardcore player
yep, im so sad, that i just went to play other games instead
brilliant business strategy, yes?

I’m NOT a hardcore player, that was the point.

your skill level is obviously much higher, than normal players=H-A-R-D-C-O-R-E
sometimes it refers to skill level
sometimes it is dedication
sometimes it only a matter of spending enough time and energy

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

lol when I dont need to use my utility bar or even have to dodge for 90% of the content, I call that a design flaw not overwhelming god like skills.

I really enjoyed it at first because everything was so new and different from other MMOs then i got into PvP seriosuly. That was when i noticed how dumb the AI was.

battledrone.8315:

Demented Sheep.1642:

battledrone.8315:

Demented Sheep.1642:

dubstax.9102:

I still get a kick out of how the old pros still try and set the skill curve of the average player at their level. Players who have been playing for three plus years, have played thousands of hours on every or close to every profession, put countless time into every mob type, every boss type, seen every mechanic and have also crafted one if not multiple ascended sets. Your judgement of difficulty for HoT is flawed as you are not within the average player skill level. You are quite far above it.

I didn’t play for a year, have a single ascended weapon that haven’t even been using, was playing on a character I speed levelled to 80 with crafting and tomes and didn’t even read my traits properly before going around the maps. If I’m not within the average for skill this games players base is just sad.

congratz, youre a hardcore player
yep, im so sad, that i just went to play other games instead
brilliant business strategy, yes?

I’m NOT a hardcore player, that was the point.

your skill level is obviously much higher, than normal players=H-A-R-D-C-O-R-E
sometimes it refers to skill level
sometimes it is dedication
sometimes it only a matter of spending enough time and energy

I wouldn’t consider myself that skilled either.
Is finding open world HoT too hard actually what the average player thinks? because I don’t see people complaining about it in game. When I was deciding whether to get it most of my guildmates buzzed about it and the worst I heard was that it was a bit light on content.

If you aren’t running Zerk/Glass builds HoT is pretty easy. Otherwise, you are one chain CC from dead.

Before HoT was released, there was a tonne of threads asking for a hard mode for Guild Wars 2.

What is the general consensus on getting a hard mode now?

You don’t need viper or trailblazer recipes so you’re setting yourself targets that you can’t meet just so you can complain.
Your definition of hardcore is completely wrong.
I’ve solo explored all of VB several times, solo’ed all the HP’s and MP’s (as per Dulfy’s guide) that you can solo and then grouped for the ones you need a group for.

DS I happened to be in when the meta started and joined a squad and we completed it.

AB I’ve done the meta a few times but haven’t got map complete on any toon there yet. Need to spend more time there for that.

You can’t make everything enjoyable for everyone.

dubstax.9102:

It will likely hurt their next expansion release if adjustments are not made to make this expansion enjoyable for everyone.

Sorry to tell you, but there is no way to make something enjoyable for everyone. Nothing is enjoyable to every person, as everyone has different taste and preferences. Just look at this thread for example. The OP and some people is turned off by core tyria because it is too easy. Some others dont like HoT because it’s too hard.

Some people say people quit because HoT is too hard/frustrating. Well, before HoT people also quit because GW2 open world is too mind numbingly easy too.

At the end of the day, what they can do is to make it enjoyable for the most people they can. We don’t have the metrics, so we can only guess whether more people like the harder HoT difficulty or core tyria difficulty.

Back to the OP’s question. Yes the difficulty level has been improved. You will likely have to dodge more than before and use some of the utility bars. The enemies hit hard but squishier, so it keeps you more on your toes.

no game benefits from alienating people who want a challenge. Not a single one.

Its odd, usually you find studios are bad because they love to release broken games or they are so greedy they have pay to win microtransactions. This studio is interesting, they are bad because they really dont have the first idea of what players generally want which is content that can challenge and a proper reward system.

They could have had the face plant on keyboard to win content for people who want it and the dark souls level content for the people that play regularly. They could have developed a reward system that didnt involve only getting useless gear. I wnder if this really was all colins doing

dubstax.9102:

zakuruchi.4086:

At the end of the day, what they can do is to make it enjoyable for the most people they can. We don’t have the metrics, so we can only guess whether more people like the harder HoT difficulty or core tyria difficulty.

But they didn’t. They made sure those crying for extremely hard content were heard while turning a deaf ear to everyone else. That same deaf ear was given to the WvW community while at the same time promising improvements. They still didn’t mind taking everyone’s $50 now did they?

Oh get a grip already! The Heart of Thorns maps are by no means hard at all and a lot of the enemies are the same ones we already know from SW. And I am saying this as someone who has been playing for less than an year and who still runs with exotic armor. If all you do is mash 1 and never dodge then yes, you will die and you SHOULD die. Otherwise it’s by no means that hard.

Also, Anet are not nerfing the HoT maps difficulty or at least have never stated they will. What they did talk about is the availability of content and everything being on a set timer.

dubstax.9102:

However, trash mobs in open world maps could easily have been balanced to bring something new to the table for the game while at the same time not ruining the enjoyment of solo players who just want to get mastery points, work on HPs for their elite spec, gather the currency they need to craft gear they are working on, or just explore the beautiful maps ANet created.

They were balanced to bring something new while at the same time not ruining the enjoyment of solo players. I’ve run round solo avoiding some mobs because they’re harder than the easy trash mobs.

If I wanted to work on my WvW stuff should Anet provide me with an empty instance so I can cap everything? Should they add more WP’s because walking is tiring? I get some people don’t like PvE but that isn’t HoT’s fault, you just don’t like PvE.

New player perspective here: HoT is clearly more difficult than Orr and silver wastes.

I was doing great leveling up. Cleared all of the Orr maps without issue. Played around a bit in the silver wastes, and noticed a bit of a ramp up in difficulty there. But then I reached the verdant brink and sort of fell flat on my face. I was dying left and right!

It wasn’t until I got a little practice in, unlocked a few of the navigational masteries (gliding, updrafts, bouncy mushrooms, etc.) as well as my elite spec that I became comfortable with the place. Not that it takes very long to do that!

To give you a few examples: I don’t recall enemies in Orr that could stun you and then kill you if you don’t break the stun and move within about a second. It’s easy to do now that I know to expect it from bladedancers, but it’s a bit of a surprise when you walk into it the first time! Getting stunned previously was more of an inconvenience than an immediate danger in most cases.

Same deal with the shadow leapers. Orr didn’t have enemies that evade ranged attacks, leap/shadowstep away and go into stealth, and then blast you with arrows for all of your health if you don’t evade!

I’m not complaining. I love it! I’m totally comfortable in the jungle now, but if I let my guard down or make a mistake it still makes me pay for it. Knowing how to handle these enemies and having the tools to do so is still no protection against poor execution! This place will kill you in a second if you let it! Good stuff (if you like that sort of thing)!

Ragion.2831:

So, has the difficulty improved in HoT?

HoT open world is quite easy it just isn’t faceroll on the keyboard easy as core Tyria.

Ragion.2831:

no game benefits from alienating people who want a challenge. Not a single one.

Its odd, usually you find studios are bad because they love to release broken games or they are so greedy they have pay to win microtransactions. This studio is interesting, they are bad because they really dont have the first idea of what players generally want which is content that can challenge and a proper reward system.

They could have had the face plant on keyboard to win content for people who want it and the dark souls level content for the people that play regularly. They could have developed a reward system that didnt involve only getting useless gear. I wnder if this really was all colins doing

In fairness, my understanding is that this game created a niche for itself in the casual space. If I’m correct in that assumption, HoT appears to be a bit of a left turn. Perhaps ANet believes that some of the familiar tenets of MMOs actually can fit into this game and, if it works out, they can expand their audience.

However, to go full-blown down the path of other MMOs may be a mistake. As we see on these forums, this game is different from other MMOs in that (by intent!) a greater portion of its playerbase is casual.

I’m not advocating for core level difficulty across the board (I really do love the HoT maps and the level of difficulty there!). But I’d be very careful about changing too much too quickly in this game. There’s intent and then there are the consequences. We definitely don’t want to end up with a second-rate WoW clone. The market is full of those sorts of failed ventures.

Having said that, I am still not sure where I stand on “horizontal” progression. It’s such an odd idea coming from games like WoW. I can’t decide whether I’m going to be fine with it in the long run or if I’ll quickly reach a point where I lack the motivation to log in to this game. Only time will tell! I hope I end up liking it…these HoT maps are simply amazing!

Marthkus.4615:

If you aren’t running Zerk/Glass builds HoT is pretty easy. Otherwise, you are one chain CC from dead.

Eh? It’s not like other stats give you more stun breaks or stability …

On the other hand having plenty of CC, stun breaks and stability on your own bar will help a lot regardless of stats.

Marthkus.4615:

If you aren’t running Zerk/Glass builds HoT is pretty easy. Otherwise, you are one chain CC from dead.

I ran glass builds on every class in HoT and had no issues. Gear is not the problem that people are having.

HoT content gets easier once you learn the enemies. It’s alot like Dark Souls(but more forgiving) where it’s difficult at first but the enemies have signature moves you need to avoid. Once you learn them and actually use your defensive skills/blocks, it’s cake. But if you do mess up, the game will punish you since those special attacks hit HARD.

The problem is that the learning curve for the entire game is all screwed up. Old Tyria barely gets harder and can be completed while afk. You don’t need to dodge, you don’t neeed to interuppt anything, you don’t need any defensive gear, traits or skills at all.
And this doesn’t really change from 5-80.

Then suddenly HoT comes along and it has a sink or swim approach. You either learn by your mistakes and master it or you don’t and you’re unable to solo it.
While i wonder what the people who complain about it think about when they die to a mob i mostly blame Anet for not gradually teaching less invested players about the game with a more gradual learning curve that should’ve started in vanilla Tyria.
Having a game where the content is so easy that any skill/weapon/build that isn’t pure offense is worthless isn’t good either. And that’s not because i’m good, i can park my character infront of a mob or two, hit #1 and go grab a coffey without any fear of dying in most areas of the game, hell i did that with a veteran mob while leveling my Rev at lvl60ish.

I must admit that the idea that a violent, special effects laden, combat adventure game should not be exciting never occured to me.

dubstax.9102:

Ashen.2907:

I must admit that the idea that a violent, special effects laden, combat adventure game should not be exciting never occured to me.

There is nothing wrong with excitement, but there is nothing wrong with relaxing either.

Excitement: sPvP/WvW/Raids/Meta Events (HoT)
Relaxing: Open World Exploration

There was no reason that they couldn’t have had it this way.

If you say so.

I dont go to a blockbuster, ’splosions and car chases, action movie if I am looking for a calm and relaxing evening. Nor do I buy games focused on violence, action, explosions, and killing things if what I want from my free time/hobby is to be not excited.

dubstax.9102:

Why is it so hard for you to understand that people play for different reasons? The people that like the HoT difficulty want everyone to play their way as though it is their game. I paid money for the expansion just like everyone else did. The difference is I am not advocating turning all of HoT into faceroll content, but you and others want to give players like me the finger and tell us it is tough luck if we don’t like it.

Give players like you the finger? Drama much?

Sure, different reasons, but do you go to a crowded, ear bleedingly loud, rock concert for quiet alone time? Do you go to a tobacco bar when you want a breath of fresh air? Do you go to McDonalds for a perfectly prepared filet mignon?

Should someone at that concert ask for the volume to be turned down and for some privacy because solitude and quiet are what he wants from a rock concert?

The whole point, by design and intent, of fictional adventure is excitement and GW2 is an adventure game. If you buy something that is intended to be exciting, complaints that it is not sufficiently relaxing are a bit off.

dubstax.9102:

It’s not dramatic at all. Look at how the people on these forums are treated who critique HoT difficulty in any way, shape, or form.

You are the one who brought vulgarity into a discussion about excitement vs relaxation in a game designed to be about the use of extremes of violence, explosions, killing on a genocidal scale, etc to solve problems. Not I.

dubstax.9102:

I’m done with this thread. Congratulations, another dissenting view of HoT’s wonderful difficulty shutdown. Pat yourself on the back.

Someone engages in a discussion with you, calmly disagreeing with your position, provides examples to illustrate their point of view, without attacking you, so you resort to vulgarity and quit the discussion.

I like the new mobs. Some of them actually dodges… Woooowww

I bet if people have the ability to dodge they would get better chances against mobs that can too… OH WAIT

dubstax.9102:

I wasn’t vulgar. Stop trying to play victim. I was speaking metaphorically when I said:

“The difference is I am not advocating turning all of HoT into faceroll content, but you and others want to give players like me the finger and tell us it is tough luck if we don’t like it.”

I was making a point and to reiterate I am done with this topic.

Claiming that I (and others) want to tell you to…..oddly enough every meaning of that gesture (that I can find) is vulgar….is vulgar. It is possible to speak metaphorically without making vulgar references.

I am not playing victim. Your decision to resort to that sort of behavior in an otherwise calm discussion does not harm my position.

Goodbye…again.

dubstax.9102:

Triggerbrand.8072:

I like the new mobs. Some of them actually dodges… Woooowww

I bet if people have the ability to dodge they would get better chances against mobs that can too… OH WAIT

And yet another worthless “get good” troll post that does nothing towards having a dialogue about the difficulty, but is instead designed to belittle and berate players.

I don’t know. But my friend who has under 200hours of play doesn’t have a problem with HoT.

If you still don’t get it. The content isn’t hard but people need to adapt. Even in raids, if you adapt easily you can beat it.

Also

dubstax.9102:

Yes I do. I need them for my builds, one of which is for WvW. You can use that argument for anything. You don’t need X so stop complaining about Y. Nobody told you how to build your characters so please don’t tell me how to build mine and what I do and do not need.

It seems odd to me for anyone who plays WvW to complain about the difficulty of HoT. I am a total scrub at WvW and get my clock cleaned almost any time I have to go against someone without having them outnumbered. HoT doesn’t seem nearly as difficult. You don’t really have to be any more careful in HoT than when trying to solo a camp in WvW. I.e. if you barge in and facetank it all, you get CCed and rolled, but if you pay attention and be careful it is not terribly hard. Are you really finding HoT anywhere close to the difficulty of WvW?

I am generally pretty oblivious about noticing things enemies are doing in game and even click skills. I would be shocked if my skill level was up to the average GW2 player. It is rare for me to see somebody playing worse than me. But I still managed to complete the elite specs and personal story on every character class and have all masteries unlocked but two. I did all of it either solo or just with whoever happened by or asked in map chat. You can also use proofs of heroics from WvW to avoid having to do all of the hero points. I have accumulated quite a few of those on multiple characters just from doing dailies in WvW. And even if you are having trouble in HoT zones, I have found people to be quite helpful. In Auric Basin there even seem to be HP trains running pretty often where you can just follow the zerg and get the whole map in less than an hour.

I don’t think this has been addressed yet but people who want challenging PvE content do not have WvW and PvP. Like always there will be some overlap but generally PvE and PvP focused players are separate groups.
If you want difficult solo content or don’t want to properly organised 9 other people (who are probably going to want you to have ascended gear which is time gated and expensive) or would rather have more freeform grouping and events then you don’t have raids either.

dubstax.9102:

AliamRationem.5172:

New player perspective here: HoT is clearly more difficult than Orr and silver wastes.

I was doing great leveling up. Cleared all of the Orr maps without issue. Played around a bit in the silver wastes, and noticed a bit of a ramp up in difficulty there. But then I reached the verdant brink and sort of fell flat on my face. I was dying left and right!

It wasn’t until I got a little practice in, unlocked a few of the navigational masteries (gliding, updrafts, bouncy mushrooms, etc.) as well as my elite spec that I became comfortable with the place. Not that it takes very long to do that!

To give you a few examples: I don’t recall enemies in Orr that could stun you and then kill you if you don’t break the stun and move within about a second. It’s easy to do now that I know to expect it from bladedancers, but it’s a bit of a surprise when you walk into it the first time! Getting stunned previously was more of an inconvenience than an immediate danger in most cases.

Same deal with the shadow leapers. Orr didn’t have enemies that evade ranged attacks, leap/shadowstep away and go into stealth, and then blast you with arrows for all of your health if you don’t evade!

I’m not complaining. I love it! I’m totally comfortable in the jungle now, but if I let my guard down or make a mistake it still makes me pay for it. Knowing how to handle these enemies and having the tools to do so is still no protection against poor execution! This place will kill you in a second if you let it! Good stuff (if you like that sort of thing)!

I get enough excitement in my real world life. I don’t need the game I play to try and mimic real world stress and anxiety. I’m not trying to really feel as though I am walking into a jungle that could kill me at any moment. If people need to feel that rush then perhaps they should put the game down and live life a little more.

It’s ironic that you wish to change the game to your personal taste, when that appears to be the very complaint you’re lodging against others in this thread. It was you who claimed that the game is “giving you the finger” by presenting you with challenging content, wasn’kitten Would it not be doing exactly the same thing to players like myself who prefer HoT difficulty to the core game?

For what it’s worth, I’m not an “elitist.” My background is hardcore raiding (WoW), but I’ve always been turned off by the elitism. In fact, I took an entire expansion off of hardcore raiding after working with a particularly toxic guild environment in 40-man raids back in the early WoW days. Then I formed my own “casual” raiding guild in WotLK and managed to not only complete ICC and the Lich King encounter, but even progressed most of the way through heroic ICC – all with minimal drama and no elitism tolerated!

So, I do understand where you’re coming from and it’s not my intention to force you to play the game the way I think it should be played. I hope I can expect the same courtesy in return?

I do like the idea of making hero challenges more accessible to solo players. I also don’t think this should be a major issue for players who like the level of difficulty in HoT. Downgrade most of the champion hero challenges to solo encounters and make them scale to the number of players participating. Show up with an army and expect a big battle. Show up alone and you can still get it done. Would that not work for most players?

They seem to be able to scale encounters elsewhere – I noticed those legendary wyverns tend to be a lot easier if you show up with 4 or 5 players than if you show up with 50, for instance!

For events, I think it’s more an issue with getting players where they need to be when they need to be there. Even if you can comfortably solo most of the events in the chain, you can’t do all of the events simultaneously so you still need other players working on events elsewhere in the zone in order to receive decent rewards at the end. I’m too new to propose a solution to this issue, and I hear they have plans to address this in some way in an upcoming patch?

For getting from point A to point B, I’m rather rigid on heavy nerfs to the “trash” mobs in the jungle zones. What I wouldn’t mind seeing is a little targeted downgrade to the number and types of mobs in certain areas. I notice there are places where two veterans patrol side by side and camps where there is a very high density of dangerous enemies. If we thinned these out a bit in a few “problem” areas, I might be okay with that. But it would really bother me if they took away the danger of the jungle.

It’s too bad that this kind of gameplay stresses you out. Personally, I find it relaxing. I get home, have a beer, and sometimes I just lose myself fighting and flying around in the jungle with no particular purpose in mind. I just zone in and kill until there’s nothing left! To each their own! I hope there’s room for both of us.

dubstax.9102:

There are plenty of new players that have only been playing anywhere from several months to a year that will argue they still see plenty of difficulty within parts of core Tyria.

Have you met a bell-curve, yet?

Rhetorical questions aside, I won’t be online much until after the 22nd, but if you’re interested in exploring HoT, and learning some techniques on how to handle different mobs, send me a message. I’ve got plenty of characters which I haven’t brought through the maps (a few still in rare armour, etc.), and I’d enjoy a chance to see how they do and finding out how to make them work. You learn, I learn, we both win!

dubstax.9102:

The challenging content is there. It’s not ANet’s fault that players want to put their own requirements on group creation. However, hitting on that subject for a moment you can see the circle that those hardcore players create:

• Hardcore players require more difficult content
• Such content is given to them
• Hardcore players look at finding the most efficient enemy melting compositions in order to do said content quick and easy while reaping the rewards.
• Rewards have been reaped and reaped over and over again
• Hardcore players complain that said content is too easy
• Hardcore players require more difficult content

And eventually…

• Difficulty requirements for content not met by developers
• Hardcore players eventually leave the game claiming they are bored

This is why catering to that small group of players while alienating the majority of your player base is a bad idea because in the end they’re only loyal so long as they can get their content requirements and they’re really only looking for a fix rather than long term play.

Are you serious with this? you claim you shouldn’t cater to players who want harder content because they’ll leave if you don’t keep adding content. Meanwhile you are complaining that the content in the expansion is too hard despite the fact that 90% of the content in the game is still very very easy and catering to you.

dubstax.9102:

I’m saying that the small group of hardcore players burn through content faster than everyone else. Hardcore players are concerned about the present and not so much the future. Casual players tend to be more long term driven and will fund the game that way. Hardcore players also earn a majority of what they receive through the game itself rather than spending real world cash. Would you rather cater to a hardcore player that sinks little to no money over a small period of time before they get bored and leave the game, or a casual player who spends $30-$40 a month over several years to buy cosmetics, toys, etc.?

I’m not even sure that’s true if you’re talking about hardcore as in likes hard content rather than just who sink a kitten ton of hours into things. They might complete basic content faster but also be more inclined to repeat it and do things like achievements. Despite accusations of being “hardcore” in this thread I don’t have much currency in game because I don’t like farming and what I am earning is going into gear at the moment, not cool cosmetic things. If I want something from the gemstore I have to buy it (and I have bought things from the gemstore). A lot of very causal players will run through story content (which by it’s nature is not the sort of content you’re are going to want to repeat over and over again) and explore maps once then get bored. That’s what was happening with the LS updates.
It’s almost certainty not the majority of players who spend $30-$40 a month on the gemstore.

HoT monster difficulty is harder then Orr but this was billed as endgame content. I think what turns me off is the dense placement of said monsters. It feels like wherever I go there is a monster every 3 feet. It becomes tedious. When an event pops up it feels like you are slogging through quicksand to get there because the monster placement is so dense.

I don’t think HoT open world is extremely hard. The word that comes to me again and again is tedious.

Dashingsteel.3410:

HoT monster difficulty is harder then Orr but this was billed as endgame content. I think what turns me off is the dense placement of said monsters. It feels like wherever I go there is a monster every 3 feet. It becomes tedious. When an event pops up it feels like you are slogging through quicksand to get there because the monster placement is so dense.

The same problem Orr had at launch.

I don’t think HoT open world is extremely hard. The word that comes to me again and again is tedious.

Tedious is a great way to describe HoT in general. Meta event scheduling, mobs, currency acquisition, adventures, …

Seriously I don’t care if HOT is too hard or just caters to the hardcore PVE’er elite. I’m ok with that. Let them have it. Its already done and its just going to tick off more of the community if its nerfed.

For me I find the map for HOT frustrating, and the mobs are the very least of the issues I have with it. However I’d like to see another avenue for recipes, sigils, insignia’s, and masteries made available for those of us who don’t find the content entertaining at all.

I think that’s fair and should actually be applied to all game modes and their reward tracks. In this way the game will truly cater to all play styles.

dubstax.9102:

The challenging content is there. It’s not ANet’s fault that players want to put their own requirements on group creation. However, hitting on that subject for a moment you can see the circle that those hardcore players create:

• Hardcore players require more difficult content
• Such content is given to them
• Hardcore players look at finding the most efficient enemy melting compositions in order to do said content quick and easy while reaping the rewards.
• Rewards have been reaped and reaped over and over again
• Hardcore players complain that said content is too easy
• Hardcore players require more difficult content

And eventually…

• Difficulty requirements for content not met by developers
• Hardcore players eventually leave the game claiming they are bored

This is why catering to that small group of players while alienating the majority of your player base is a bad idea because in the end they’re only loyal so long as they can get their content requirements and they’re really only looking for a fix rather than long term play.

You’re generalizing and being very unreasonable. I took time to explain my point of view and extend what I felt were solid solutions and compromises that take into account that not all players enjoy the same things. I’m not an elitist, nor is it unreasonable for me to expect some development resources to focus on players like myself.

Further, if a disproportionate amount of resources were allocated to “hardcore” or difficult content (An assumption I have no way of verifying as I only started playing in 2016.), I don’t think that’s fair. I assume you’re correct when you say that the core playerbase are not old school MMO players like myself, but casual players. But you must realize that I wouldn’t be here if not for HoT, and your core playerbase can’t be as similar to you as you think because it isn’t only new players who like HoT.

I only devote time to one MMO at a time. For ANet, that’s one more paying customer and one less for the competition. You’re also correct that if they don’t develop some content aimed at players like me (complex and challenging maps, raids, etc.) then GW2 is not likely to maintain my interest. Clearly, you can understand my position.

So why not be reasonable? Is there no way we can target changes to HoT to address the issues of both casual and less-casual players while minimizing the perception of taking from one to give to the other?

Shall I try to get the ball rolling again? Here! Hold this olive branch!

As I suggested in my last post, I really wouldn’t mind if they found a way to scale the hero point challenges such that they are more accessible to solo players, yet still provide a battle for small groups (large groups seem to steamroll these challenges anyway, for the most part). This seems like an area that wouldn’t bother hardcore players too much, but addresses one of the chief complaints I’ve heard regarding HoT (I need 200-and-how many hero points to unlock my elite spec!? And I have to fight champion hero challenges to do it?).

What do you think? Can we be smart about this and stop trying to convince each other that the other is undeserving of resources? Because I’m pretty sure ANet has decided that we all deserve development time.

Kamara.4187:

Seriously I don’t care if HOT is too hard or just caters to the hardcore PVE’er elite. I’m ok with that. Let them have it. Its already done and its just going to tick off more of the community if its nerfed.

For me I find the map for HOT frustrating, and the mobs are the very least of the issues I have with it. However I’d like to see another avenue for recipes, sigils, insignia’s, and masteries made available for those of us who don’t find the content entertaining at all.

I think that’s fair and should actually be applied to all game modes and their reward tracks. In this way the game will truly cater to all play styles.

As a new player who admittedly doesn’t know all the angles yet, this seems reasonable. I suppose the devil is in the details, but it seems to me that PvP players should not be forced into excessive amounts of PvE content. I assume based on past experience with other games, that this is not an issue in reverse? That is, PvE players don’t need to participate in PvP for anything?

On the other hand, it seems to me a bit of a failure if players would rather ask for a workaround than participate in content. I’m referring not to the PvP players, but rather PvE players who simply don’t enjoy the new maps. I’d really like to continue discussing ways we can address this while keeping different preferences in mind.

I was wondering in another thread why we couldn’t have different instances of the same map, such that players could flag themselves as one type or another and they would enter different instances. PvE (standard) and PvE (light), or whatever you want to call it. Standard would play the way HoT currently plays. Light would simply have toned-down enemy attributes (less health, less damage, no more champions at hero points).

In theory, the issues with map density have nothing to do with a lack of available players and all to do with the design of the system itself. I wouldn’t think this would impact that issue, at least not directly. But perhaps this would require a great deal of resources and other solutions could get the job done more efficiently.

New players it will probably be very difficult and annoying.

For older easier and annoying.

Oce you get masteries it will be easier to run around them. Also zero builds are stand in one place and own everything anymore. Mobs are smarter and do a ton more damage.

But for those complaining about hard content.. it isn’t hard for most I have seen complaining. It’s more they can’t afk auto attack and get free loot.

I play mostly by myself I have no problem staying alive. If you want to solo a dragon this isn’t the game for you (other those in solos le instances).

AliamRationem.5172:

Kamara.4187:

Seriously I don’t care if HOT is too hard or just caters to the hardcore PVE’er elite. I’m ok with that. Let them have it. Its already done and its just going to tick off more of the community if its nerfed.

For me I find the map for HOT frustrating, and the mobs are the very least of the issues I have with it. However I’d like to see another avenue for recipes, sigils, insignia’s, and masteries made available for those of us who don’t find the content entertaining at all.

I think that’s fair and should actually be applied to all game modes and their reward tracks. In this way the game will truly cater to all play styles.

As a new player who admittedly doesn’t know all the angles yet, this seems reasonable. I suppose the devil is in the details, but it seems to me that PvP players should not be forced into excessive amounts of PvE content. I assume based on past experience with other games, that this is not an issue in reverse? That is, PvE players don’t need to participate in PvP for anything?

On the other hand, it seems to me a bit of a failure if players would rather ask for a workaround than participate in content. I’m referring not to the PvP players, but rather PvE players who simply don’t enjoy the new maps. I’d really like to continue discussing ways we can address this while keeping different preferences in mind.

I was wondering in another thread why we couldn’t have different instances of the same map, such that players could flag themselves as one type or another and they would enter different instances. PvE (standard) and PvE (light), or whatever you want to call it. Standard would play the way HoT currently plays. Light would simply have toned-down enemy attributes (less health, less damage, no more champions at hero points).

In theory, the issues with map density have nothing to do with a lack of available players and all to do with the design of the system itself. I wouldn’t think this would impact that issue, at least not directly. But perhaps this would require a great deal of resources and other solutions could get the job done more efficiently.

The same thing is as true today as it was back when Parker Brother’s started rolling out games. "Diversify’ because not every game is going to appeal to every person.

I’m an old gamer. I remember when pacman wasn’t even on the horizon. Or when Atari was cutting edge, and game night was a meet up with all your friends around a table with 1-100 sided dice with a stack of rpg books.

People come to games for many different reasons and not everything is going to appeal to all of them. Some like the story and want to absorb into it. Some like the challenges of Pve or PVP. Some like being wrapped up in the games economy and getting rich.

All of them are willing to spend money if the content suits them, but you can’t force someone to like something that doesn’t appeal to them. especially if its suppose to be a mode of entertainment.

So it all comes down to who will be catered to by development when their goals and priority is to make a profit.

Too many players try HoT in zerker gear with class cannon specs, no sustain and no escapes or stun breakers.

You can’t wander into HoT with a purely offensive build and expect to burn down every NPC you come across. If you can’t re-gear, at least review the rest of your build to be more defensive.

I believe that a big factor behind this disagreement of expected game difficulty stems from the fact that it’s hard to really say what constitutes as ‘difficult’.

I understand that the mobs in HoT require a little bit more alertness and presence of mind, but I don’t think they’re exceptionally hard to take down.

Pocket Raptors are nasty little creatures – but they’re also fragile as heck. Nothing that a couple of dodges and sword swings couldn’t fix though, and the best part of it is that you get a sense of satisfaction knowing you learned another trick to help you survive the Maguuma.

It’s something that can be applied to real life as well, learning how to apply a little bit of ingenuity and creativity to overcome challenges and setbacks that happen in real life.

Also, it really has to do with the setup of your character stats. I remember feeling very, VERY annoyed (and embarrassed) getting downed several times while running around in my glass cannon elementalist.

It was only when I swapped to my more balanced (Toughness-wise) mesmer did it suddenly dawn on me, and I went: “OHHhhhhhh… is that why I’ve been dying so often?”

It’s not ungodly hard.

Nor is it incredibly easy auto-attack fodder.