Guild Wars 2

Kimyrielle.3826:

Substance E.4852:

Kimyrielle.3826:

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.

You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.

From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.

That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.

I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.

Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.

What I don’t understand nor ever will understand is why fans of said content come to the ONLY game not having it and nag the devs for three years to add it, instead of simply playing one of the 20 WoW clones providing that exact content.
Me? I was very happy that GW2 didn’t make me feel like a second class player and lock me out from content and desirable items just because I don’t and never will like WoW-style raids. There is a reason why I liked GW2 you know? It NOT being like other MMOs. Thing of the past, I guess. You guys couldn’t let people like me have ONE game that’s different and didn’t make me feel left out just because I don’t want to raid or be in a raiding guild. Congratulations. You won. I lost. I guess in the end the loudest voice always wins after all and I have to give it to the raiding crowd that they were both loud and persistent.

1) We don’t know how Raid bosses in GW2 will play out as opposed to what we know WoW has. There will probably be similarities (% health phase changes, or special debuffs or whatever) however GW2 combat is substantially different than what we know from the holy trinity group compositions other MMO Raids are based on. Colin mentioned this specifically, and suggested heavily that you shouldn’t be forced to switch characters to fulfill a role you can do on your main. It’s likely the only mechanics that will be allowed to go into GW2 Raids are ones where as long as you have enough players performing some mechanic (like control, damage, support or moving correctly) you can get away with running any composition. I don’t see these Raid bosses being too predictable…

2) Raids will never have an attunement and there’s zero requirements for merely entering. And while Ascended is the top tier stats in this game Exotic quality items are likely what said raids will base their balance around. I can say this because the ‘Legendary Armor’ fulfills many benefits even providing an Ascended Quality piece to the one who makes it eventually. They COULD balance around all 10 players with Ascended, however the degree of difficulty and absolute ‘perfect play’ required I easily imagine won’t be too punishing. We aren’t going to get a bunch of encounters like 0 Light Yogg-Saron, the curve will likely start from whatever level we players reach from exploring the Magumma jungle after a few weeks, and take it a few notches up.

Nobody who advocated for Raids wanted WoW style, that’s why we are playing GW2.

Ohoni.6057:

So apparently Legendary armor will be available for players who like to raid, which is great for those players, but what about all those players who have zero interest in raiding but who want to earn Legendary armor? What methods will be available for them? Well we be able to earn armor pieces through the Legendary Precursor crafting system that’s being added?

Keep in mind that a large chunk of GW2’s population is here to get away from raiding type games.

Doesn’t matter I suspect: if you don’t raid, you probably don’t need it, just like if you don’t do fractals, there is no sensible reason to want Ascended. If you’re here to get away from raiding games, don’t raid.

Look, this is great news.

Legendaries have always had a major flaw in that one can acquire Legendary equipment for extremely mundane accomplishments.

Account bound, content specific legendaries are absolutely the right way to go. Furthermore they should keep making skins that are content specific outside of the legendaries, like the carapace/luminescant armor.

People who don’t like to raid should have just as many rewards. They’re just not going to be the same rewards as they’d get via raiding. Those rewards may not say “Legendary” on the tin, but let’s be real here: GW2 gear is not and has never been about the stats, and there’s is not not nor has there ever been anything particularly legendary about map completion or farming a buttload of materials.

You do not deserve access to every reward in the game if you are not willing to do every type of content in the game. I’d like the lumi skins, but I can’t be bothered to farm up all the stuff required to get them. Thus, I don’t have them. There’s nothing wrong with that.

What’s wrong is that the current system has very little reward for exceptional risk and skill and tons of reward for simply putting in time.

If you play GW2 just to put in time and aren’t interested in challenging content or learning to play will with groups of other people in a social game (as opposed to leeching off of giant mobs of solo players) that’s fine. There will undoubtedly continue to exist grind-centric rewards for you that don’t require you to do so.

People said the same amount of doooooommm when fractals were released, yet somehow fractals didn’t kill open world content at all.

Believe it or not even current content can be done with a balanced non-meta party. just like in GW1, if you tweak builds around the strengths and weaknesses of individual players and classes you’re well equipped mechanically to tackle any content in the game. You just have to be willing to build a team that wants to work as a team. Those who have had problems with rude PUGs should really just stop pugging and make some friends

My PUG experiences in GW2 have been largely positive, but I don’t end up pugging very often either.

Start by making 4 friends for dungeons, and make 5 more to try raids. Isn’t making friends what a social PvE game is supposed to be about? Isn’t the idea of “every player you meet is only a potential ally” the core of GW2’s PvE design?

If you just plain don’t want to play instances, then you obviously just plain don’t want the rewards from instances, just like I just plain don’t want to farm and collect a massive shopping list enough to get a full set of lumi armor.

Stop expecting to have all the things without doing all the things. It is what creates boring loot and lackluster rewards across the game.

Some of the components for legendary armour should definitely only come from raids. There should also be some components that come from things like WvW and map completion and casual play.

I don’t understand. Nobody seems to complain about the components for existing legendary equipment that you can only receive from WvW and dungeon tokens? I really don’t see the difference.

Some people are complaining that this is way too similar to WoW. WoW has a VERY different system. To get some of the mounts for example, you have to get the best gear available (to avoid being shunned), spend hours/days finding some super-elite tanks and healers and then spend about 50 hours trying to get that incredibly rare drop.

For Gw2, you show up with exotic/ascended armour, play with whomever you like because anyone can play pretty much any role as long as they’re not imbeciles and that’s pretty much it.

The basic principle behind raids is you just run around and kill things with your friends/team. Ultimately, isn’t that what the whole idea behind 99% of the game anyway?

Kimyrielle.3826:

Substance E.4852:

Kimyrielle.3826:

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.

You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.

From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.

That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.

I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.

Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.

I’m going to try to lay this out a simple as possible because I still think you’re genuinely ignorant and not simply a troll.

All pve content is scripted fights with a gimmick that requires you to do more than let auto attack do all the work.

Whether you are doing Maw or the lvl 50 Dredge Fractal, they all have some element other than simple attacking needed to accomplish the goal and all are scripted.

This is not unique to WoW or any other MMO out there and is absolutely an element of GW2.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Substance E.4852:

Kimyrielle.3826:

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.

You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.

From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.

That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.

I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.

Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.

What I don’t understand nor ever will understand is why fans of said content come to the ONLY game not having it and nag the devs for three years to add it, instead of simply playing one of the 20 WoW clones providing that exact content.
Me? I was very happy that GW2 didn’t make me feel like a second class player and lock me out from content and desirable items just because I don’t and never will like WoW-style raids. There is a reason why I liked GW2 you know? It NOT being like other MMOs. Thing of the past, I guess. You guys couldn’t let people like me have ONE game that’s different and didn’t make me feel left out just because I don’t want to raid or be in a raiding guild. Congratulations. You won. I lost. I guess in the end the loudest voice always wins after all and I have to give it to the raiding crowd that they were both loud and persistent.

I played WOW for years. You dont know what are you saying. In WOW raiding is about getting better gear. LEGENDARY WONT GIVE ANY BETTER STAT. If you don’t want to play it, you wont get any reward.

There are unique fractal rewards.
There will be unique pvp rewards.
Unique www rewards.
And raiding rewards as well.
Crafing can give you ascended.

Different types of content has different rewards.
And there is nothing wrong with it.

AND JESUS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SKINS. In wow, you know if you have better you are a god over who doeasn’t. That’s the huge difference.

YOU GUYS ALL WANT REWARDS FOR NOTHING. I hate this attitude and shows a weak personality. If you want a shiny thing, work for it.

Copestetic.5174:

Ah, I was wondering when Ohoni would post or make a thread about this. I hope it stays locked behind raid content and, I hope they implement more of these types of rewards behind other ‘hard’ content.

Well, the only other alternative is asking to get the raids nerfed. As experience has shown, eventually one or the other will happen.

Sykper.6583:

1) We don’t know how Raid bosses in GW2 will play out as opposed to what we know WoW has. There will probably be similarities (% health phase changes, or special debuffs or whatever) however GW2 combat is substantially different than what we know from the holy trinity group compositions other MMO Raids are based on. Colin mentioned this specifically, and suggested heavily that you shouldn’t be forced to switch characters to fulfill a role you can do on your main. It’s likely the only mechanics that will be allowed to go into GW2 Raids are ones where as long as you have enough players performing some mechanic (like control, damage, support or moving correctly) you can get away with running any composition. I don’t see these Raid bosses being too predictable…

2) Raids will never have an attunement and there’s zero requirements for merely entering. And while Ascended is the top tier stats in this game Exotic quality items are likely what said raids will base their balance around. I can say this because the ‘Legendary Armor’ fulfills many benefits even providing an Ascended Quality piece to the one who makes it eventually. They COULD balance around all 10 players with Ascended, however the degree of difficulty and absolute ‘perfect play’ required I easily imagine won’t be too punishing. We aren’t going to get a bunch of encounters like 0 Light Yogg-Saron, the curve will likely start from whatever level we players reach from exploring the Magumma jungle after a few weeks, and take it a few notches up.

Nobody who advocated for Raids wanted WoW style, that’s why we are playing GW2.

Just to clarify – I am aware that legendary gear has the same stats as the Ascended items I already have. But there is a reason why I spent a lot of time in getting a Kudzu and don’t use “Random Exotic Longbow”. Kudzu is just so much prettier! Assuming the legendary set looks good, non-raiders will want to have it, too. As I said, I am tired of games that lock me out from getting nice stuff just because I don’t want to play a specific type of content that I personally find boring more than anything. I could have played any other MMO had I wanted that.

I don’t do high level Fractals either (just the two lower tiers), and I was happy that the game didn’t make me feel bad about it. In contrast to the Fractal skins, Legendary items are a really major thing, though. People will feel left out if there is absolutely no other way to get them. I know I will. Not that the average raider would care, of course. It’s more a welcome effect, I suppose.

horvgab.4879:

YOU GUYS ALL WANT REWARDS FOR NOTHING.

And you want rewards for liking different things than i do. Sorry if i don’t agree that your kind of content is in any way better than mine.

Kimyrielle.3826:

But there is a reason why I spent a lot of time in getting a Kudzu and don’t use “Random Exotic Longbow”. Kudzu is just so much prettier! Assuming the legendary set looks good, non-raiders will want to have it, too. As I said, I am tired of games that lock me out from getting nice stuff just because I don’t want to play a specific type of content that I personally find boring more than anything. I could have played any other MMO had I wanted that.

I fully agree, but it’s actually worse than that. Legendary gear is not only a skin that may (or may not) be good. It also offers a QoL function (stat changing) that is highly useful to anyone that runs more than one build. It’s way too useful to be locked behind a single content designed for a tiny minority of players.

Astralporing.1957:

horvgab.4879:

YOU GUYS ALL WANT REWARDS FOR NOTHING.

And you want rewards for liking different things than i do. Sorry if i don’t agree that your kind of content is in any way better than mine.

Kimyrielle.3826:

But there is a reason why I spent a lot of time in getting a Kudzu and don’t use “Random Exotic Longbow”. Kudzu is just so much prettier! Assuming the legendary set looks good, non-raiders will want to have it, too. As I said, I am tired of games that lock me out from getting nice stuff just because I don’t want to play a specific type of content that I personally find boring more than anything. I could have played any other MMO had I wanted that.

I fully agree, but it’s actually worse than that. Legendary gear is not only a skin that may (or may not) be good. It also offers a QoL function (stat changing) that is highly useful to anyone that runs more than one build. It’s way too useful to be locked behind a single content designed for a tiny minority of players.

You probably can’t swap runes though so the stat swap is pretty much as useless as it is in legendary weapons.

Terok.7315:

Thoehn.7460:

Great… the elitist attitude of a great number of “raiders” that drove me away from WoW has finally reared its ugly head in GW2. No, not all raiders are like that, but a lot of them are, and it is just so annoying. They can’t stand it that someone not socially comfortable with nine strangers, or people in a very small guild might get something awesome in some other facet of gameplay… y’know, ’cause raiding is so obviously the only part of any game that requires skill and they really need other people to pay attention to how skilled they are, because they have a psychedelic glowing chestpiece that shoots fireworks.

I realize that there are some things I will never acquire in the game- like a legendary weapon. I make an ascended one and deal with it. Not having something is not what makes me dubious about this change. It’s the fact that introducing raids into GW2 is just going to introduce toxicity, elitism and drama. Some of the replies to this thread already make that pretty obvious.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

You are the toxic person here. Read comments, who are the side of the raids and agints…
Just leave the game, we dont need toxic players like you. I’ll be a hardcore raider and I’ll as polite as i can with new ones and I’ll help them. It only depends on us. You are making opinion about something, what still haven’t realed and you haven’t tried it. Maybe, you try it and you’ll be bigest fun of the content…
Blaming something early means toxicity. What do you want know for developers? Delete raids? Or make some chestfarms for legendary armor? Or how could you imagine challanging content without unique rewards?

tl;dr, another “i want it but don’t want to do the content to get it. give me an easier way to get it.”

Astralporing.1957:

horvgab.4879:

YOU GUYS ALL WANT REWARDS FOR NOTHING.

And you want rewards for liking different things than i do. Sorry if i don’t agree that your kind of content is in any way better than mine.

Kimyrielle.3826:

But there is a reason why I spent a lot of time in getting a Kudzu and don’t use “Random Exotic Longbow”. Kudzu is just so much prettier! Assuming the legendary set looks good, non-raiders will want to have it, too. As I said, I am tired of games that lock me out from getting nice stuff just because I don’t want to play a specific type of content that I personally find boring more than anything. I could have played any other MMO had I wanted that.

I fully agree, but it’s actually worse than that. Legendary gear is not only a skin that may (or may not) be good. It also offers a QoL function (stat changing) that is highly useful to anyone that runs more than one build. It’s way too useful to be locked behind a single content designed for a tiny minority of players.

If it was such a tiny minority like the persons akin to you make it seem, they would not have put dev time in this content. It takes a lot of work I am sure of it. As long as we are talking about PvE, since PvP and WWW has the enemy-human factor in it, Raids will be more difficult than dungeon, fractals and Open world. Being successful at something more difficult (as accepted by at least the majority of the community) makes it the best. You like something you work outside your comfort zone sometimes. You do not want that, you’re just lying to yourself that you NEED that said reward.

Hopefully it will be perma-exclusive. We deserve it. Plus, the best part of all, everything is Guild Wars style so I won’t be afraid with “ugh what if they copy WoW” since I do not want that myself.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

tl;dr, another “i want it but don’t want to do the content to get it. give me an easier way to get it.”

I hope it wont ending with nerfing all raid to the hell….

Which is why I said we shouldn’t compare what WoW ‘Raiding’ is to what GW2 ‘Raiding’ is.

It could be as similar as Red and Green apples, but the smallest changes in how Raiding is introduced and the encounters work can make even non-raiders feel like taking on the challenge.

Not to mention our community as a whole is beyond phenomenal. There’s a much broader array of guilds who will be capable of going into the Raid content. Yes, some of these guilds might want to ‘flaunt’ their legendary rewards, however I easily see friendly guilds who do not even raid slowly build up their efforts to tackle the goal after weeks, or months of raiding.

Without attunements (which were a whole other issue with pre-WotLK raiding) there’s no need to go on tediously long and sometimes difficult quests. Without gear treadmills anyone can come and fill the part if someone has to bow out. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if in-game in front of the raid instance Arenanet puts down a toggled sign that reads ‘Welcome to Raiding one and all!’

I don’t see any of the ‘lording over plebeians’ occurring constantly when players begin completing their legendary gear, that will be a minor occurrence from the same people who list LFGs for CoF1 asking for Warriors, and they themselves can’t do the dungeon themselves and blame others in an ironic fashion.

Ohoni.6057:

if it weren’t remotely true, than anet would never have made raids.
My bad, I guess I should have said “very few ppl hate”

Also not true. Raids are a specific type of content, some people clearly enjoy it, especially lots of people who play WoW and all those who made Wildstar a breakaway hit, but it’s clearly something GW2 players have been happy to do without for the past three years, so you cannot claim that it’s an element that most players want.

But ANet doesn’t always design content for what most people want. sPvP, for example, very few players have any actual interest in, and yet they spend a lot of time on that element. It’s their hobby, and that’s fine, but they shouldn’t allow that to harm the rest of the game, or the people who play it.

The thing is, it’s not harming the game.

Neither is exclusive rewards (they have been doing it for 3 years, they see no reason to change it)

if it were up to you, this game wouldn’t even have WvW or sPvP because you only want anet to focus 100% of their effort on WHAT YOU LIKE.

The problem with all your logic. You only want anet developement to cater towards the way YOU LIKE IT.

News flash, not everyone , not even a small percentage is like you. You simply want anet to do what makes you happy instead of thinking about the other population.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

As long as we are talking about PvE, since PvP and WWW has the enemy-human factor in it, Raids will be more difficult than dungeon, fractals and Open world. Being successful at something more difficult (as accepted by at least the majority of the community) makes it the best.

Nah. The problem for me is not the skill difficulty (as i doubt it will be something i wouldn’t be able to master). It’s the party size. And, possibly (though not certainly, as we don’t know anything about it yet) time involved. So, keep talking that it will separate people by skill, not by some arbitrary non-skill factors. It still won’t make it any more true.

Also, since you did mention it, how would you feel if these rewards were locked beyond the truly difficult content of GW2 (high level sPvP)?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

You like something you work outside your comfort zone sometimes.

Why? It’s not going to improve my game experience or fun factor in any way. Quite the opposite.

As long as there is a way to get legendary equipment in PVP and WvWvW there is nothing wrong with exclusive rewards.

Make each set look different so it’s easy to tell at a glance what sort of high end content they did to earn it. The stat swapping is a huge advantage that I personally would LOVE for WvWvW because I tend to change my build a lot and sometimes want to change on a whim. However it only makes sense that the skins be different so raiders can revel in their own raidy greatness and PVP players can snicker at them for fighting robots over real people in their own set of legendary gear.

Everyone wins.

I hope that RNG drops dont play his part in raids or it will be played like 3 worms.

Astralporing.1957:

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

As long as we are talking about PvE, since PvP and WWW has the enemy-human factor in it, Raids will be more difficult than dungeon, fractals and Open world. Being successful at something more difficult (as accepted by at least the majority of the community) makes it the best.

Nah. The problem for me is not the skill difficulty (as i doubt it will be something i wouldn’t be able to master). It’s the party size. And, possibly (though not certainly, as we don’t know anything about it yet) time involved. So, keep talking that it will separate people by skill, not by some arbitrary non-skill factors. It still won’t make it any more true.

Also, since you did mention it, how would you feel if these rewards were locked beyond the truly difficult content of GW2 (high level sPvP)?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

You like something you work outside your comfort zone sometimes.

Why? It’s not going to improve my game experience or fun factor in any way. Quite the opposite.

I really love the back piece they showed for sPVP. The glorious wings I believe it was the name? To answer your question, no problem, I play sPVP. Since that photo I am trying to learn in practice arenas my Mesmer, so that my guild team of sPvP will take me after the Leader-boards are out. I will do the content until I get my wings then drop it. Simple.

As for the comfort zone thing? Because that’s how life works. This entertainment product is part of your free time experience of your life. Even the ones that make their living out of their passion or hobby had at least once in their lifetime to do something they did not want for a reward they desired because of future use. It is like everyday breathing for me when it comes to the sense it has.

Although I agree with you, I hope that if it is a difference, cheezing, rng or other bypasses should not be involved at all. Hopefully there will not be such a situation.

Ehecatl.9172:

As long as there is a way to get legendary equipment in PVP and WvWvW there is nothing wrong with exclusive rewards.

Make each set look different so it’s easy to tell at a glance what sort of high end content they did to earn it. The stat swapping is a huge advantage that I personally would LOVE for WvWvW because I tend to change my build a lot and sometimes want to change on a whim. However it only makes sense that the skins be different so raiders can revel in their own raidy greatness and PVP players can snicker at them for fighting robots over real people in their own set of legendary gear.

Everyone wins.

Stat swapping is not that big of a deal because you can’t swap runes…
Runes have a HUGE impact on certain builds. Whats the point of switching stats on armor if you can’t switch runes?

Say you change from DPS gear to tanky gear with healing,vita, or toughness, etc etc.
You are kitten now because you got DPS runes in that armor lol. Those runes won’t help your build at all. You are now forced to buy the extractor or replace the runes which is a big monetary loss (unless your loaded af and don’t care lol)

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

Kimyrielle.3826:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Substance E.4852:

Kimyrielle.3826:

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.

You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.

From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.

That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.

I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.

Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.

What I don’t understand nor ever will understand is why fans of said content come to the ONLY game not having it and nag the devs for three years to add it, instead of simply playing one of the 20 WoW clones providing that exact content.
Me? I was very happy that GW2 didn’t make me feel like a second class player and lock me out from content and desirable items just because I don’t and never will like WoW-style raids. There is a reason why I liked GW2 you know? It NOT being like other MMOs. Thing of the past, I guess. You guys couldn’t let people like me have ONE game that’s different and didn’t make me feel left out just because I don’t want to raid or be in a raiding guild. Congratulations. You won. I lost. I guess in the end the loudest voice always wins after all and I have to give it to the raiding crowd that they were both loud and persistent.

Left out of what? Optional content that has only one prerequisite which is ability to type words?

Left out of experiencing that content and its story. Left out of pursuing a legendary set of armor. And the other stuff they will add to appease the raiding crowd and its thirst for having exclusive shinies.

Raiders love to pull the "hey, it’s optional!!!!’ card, I know. They do forget adding that in every single MMO ever having raids, that content completely took over focus and is usually considered the only PvE content worth doing (for said exclusive rewards). If I cannot get a set of legendary armor since it’s locked behind raids, what should I do then? Farming SW for another 2 years? Twiddling thumbs? Stand in LA and admire the raiders bragging with their phat l00t that scrubs like me can’t have?

How can you be left out of something that has no entry requirements other than having a level 80 character and a brain?

Ohoni.6057:

Titles are not even close. I don’t even know what title my character has on. I want visually distinct ways to differentiate the feats of a player, and armors are the strongest and coolest way to do that.

If you get a set of Legendary armor for completing the raid and you get a title for completing the raid, then they are the exact same thing as far as “differentiating the feats of a player.”

The exact same.

The only difference is that the armor skin has an inherent worth, beyond acting to "differentiate the feats of a player, " and a given player may have interest in that skin alone, without caring about the skills needed to earn it via raiding, and would want to be able to wear that skin without having to run that particular content.

Then tough luck. You’re not wearing that skin without raiding, buddy. For the greater good of the game.

There has to be a long term goal for players to raid, and if you think a puny title is enough you’re out of your mind. A unique set of armor to show off your feats of strength is just what it takes.

In fact what got me to raiding in WoW is not the stats, it’s the skins. (WoW armor sets are pretty ugly now but they used to be great, especially mage, druid and paladin.)

Again, if you want legendary armors that can be obtained outside of raids that’s something I can sympathize with, but ask for new skins. Raider skins must remain raider skins and I really hope the devs never change their mind about this.

SkiTz.4590:

Stat swapping is not that big of a deal because you can’t swap runes…
Runes have a HUGE impact on certain builds. Whats the point of switching stats on armor if you can’t switch runes?

Say you change from DPS gear to tanky gear with healing,vita, or toughness, etc etc.
You are kitten now because you got DPS runes in that armor lol. Those runes won’t help your build at all. You are now forced to buy the extractor or replace the runes which is a big monetary loss (unless your loaded af and don’t care lol)

I’d rather buy a new set of runes than have to buy an entire new set of gear. I’m cheap and usually go with runes that cost 3 gold or less a piece anyway. Not to mention the bag space I’d save if I bought the extractor and just rolled with a few different sets of runes instead of multiple entire sets of armor.

I can also build around the runes if I really need to. Or get a flexible set of runes that can work with multiple builds. Even then going into say, a dungeon with sub-optimal runes for DPS is much more agreeable than trying to run the dungeon in my celestial gear on my elementalist.

Being able to change the stats on your gear is a pretty big quality of life change.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kimyrielle.3826:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Substance E.4852:

Kimyrielle.3826:

rotten.9753:

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.

You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.

From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.

That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.

I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.

Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.

What I don’t understand nor ever will understand is why fans of said content come to the ONLY game not having it and nag the devs for three years to add it, instead of simply playing one of the 20 WoW clones providing that exact content.
Me? I was very happy that GW2 didn’t make me feel like a second class player and lock me out from content and desirable items just because I don’t and never will like WoW-style raids. There is a reason why I liked GW2 you know? It NOT being like other MMOs. Thing of the past, I guess. You guys couldn’t let people like me have ONE game that’s different and didn’t make me feel left out just because I don’t want to raid or be in a raiding guild. Congratulations. You won. I lost. I guess in the end the loudest voice always wins after all and I have to give it to the raiding crowd that they were both loud and persistent.

Left out of what? Optional content that has only one prerequisite which is ability to type words?

Left out of experiencing that content and its story. Left out of pursuing a legendary set of armor. And the other stuff they will add to appease the raiding crowd and its thirst for having exclusive shinies.

Raiders love to pull the "hey, it’s optional!!!!’ card, I know. They do forget adding that in every single MMO ever having raids, that content completely took over focus and is usually considered the only PvE content worth doing (for said exclusive rewards). If I cannot get a set of legendary armor since it’s locked behind raids, what should I do then? Farming SW for another 2 years? Twiddling thumbs? Stand in LA and admire the raiders bragging with their phat l00t that scrubs like me can’t have?

How can you be left out of something that has no entry requirements other than having a level 80 character and a brain?

You forgot not being willfully lazy which is the real issue that none of them want to admit.

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Ohoni.6057:

What you want is an easier way to get the armor, its not happening.

No, I’m not looking for an easier method, just one that doesn’t involve raiding. Raiding is not a fun way to spend my time in game. If you enjoy raiding, then that’s great, you raid, but there’s no reason I should have to.

You can get it by paying gold! That is all you need. pay gold and afk at the entrance.

That sounds like a really fun way to spend an evening, but I think I’d really prefer to actually be playing the game instead, just in a different area.

I don’t understand how this is any different from people who don’t enjoy any of the other aspects of making a legendary weapon, ascended or armor skin but get through the process. For the record, its the reason I don’t have a legendary, maedre or the luminescent set- though I like some of them. I’m busy and disabled. The little time I have in the game is not going to be spent doing grindy things I don’t enjoy- so I understand where you’re coming from in that regard. What I don’t agree with is that everyone else shouldn’t have them because I don’t like the content they are tied to.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Nobody cares if Arenanet decides to add legendary armors that don’t require raiding. (As long as it still takes a lot of work to do.) They can reward with legendaries whatever feat they consider worthy of a legendary. What we want is the raid skins to be exclusive to raids, ie: can’t get that same skin without raiding.

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Nobody cares if Arenanet decides to add legendary armors that don’t require raiding. (As long as it still takes a lot of work to do.) They can reward with legendaries whatever feat they consider worthy of a legendary. What we want is the raid skins to be exclusive to raids, ie: can’t get that same skin without raiding.

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

Just chiming in to say that if raid skins are accessable anywhere except raids I will be leaving the game

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Just chiming in to say that if raid skins are accessable anywhere except raids I will be leaving the game

I hope that will happen, then. :p

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Just chiming in to say that if raid skins are accessable anywhere except raids I will be leaving the game

If they were just skins, really rad skins, would that be enough?

Kimyrielle.3826:

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Nobody cares if Arenanet decides to add legendary armors that don’t require raiding. (As long as it still takes a lot of work to do.) They can reward with legendaries whatever feat they consider worthy of a legendary. What we want is the raid skins to be exclusive to raids, ie: can’t get that same skin without raiding.

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

Than why do you care if he gets exclusive skin from the raid?
What’s it even matter to you?

Anet put this as the reward, thats how its going to be and how it should be

Its too bad you would prefer the legendary armor to be available through something else.

Thats not how ANY MMORPG has worked, or will ever work

Every MMORPG has unique content to play and have fun with. Each content has different and unique rewards. Thats how it should be.

You SHOULD NOT be able to get a PvP legendary backpiece by spamming auto attack on a karka 10,000 times…

the average raider can’t be happy huh?

How bout the avg casual who can’t be happy with the fact the raid gives out something exclusive??

Why should you get the reward when you CLEARLY don’t deserve it because you don’t find the content fun/toohard.

Kimyrielle.3826:

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

The legendary skin is a trophy that is dazzling and beautiful. You wear it to put it on display so people know what you did to accomplish it. It may not mean much to some people but it means a lot to others. The point is they worked hard to get that trophy and want it to mean something.

You’re asking to get the trophy they earned without accomplishing the same feat they did. It devalues the trophy if everyone can easily get it, and it removes the meaning of the trophy if you can get the exact same trophy from all game modes.

You don’t earn a gold trophy for wrestling if your sport was figure skating. You get a figure skating trophy. And everyone that sees the little figure skater on it will know you’re an amazing figure skater. But if every trophy had the same figurine on the top no one would be able to tell how you got it at a glance.

I personally don’t care about showing off my achievements, but a lot of people do. For that reason I don’t begrudge exclusive rewards for different achievements. It doesn’t even slightly effect me if I can’t get what they have because I choose not to excel in the same field they did so long as there is an equally valid field I can compete in that I enjoy.

Ehecatl.9172:

Kimyrielle.3826:

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

The legendary skin is a trophy that is dazzling and beautiful. You wear it to put it on display so people know what you did to accomplish it.

That the definition of bragging. "Hey, look at how AWESOME I am I am a RAIDER!!!’ Bragging is a low thing to do. If people would simply want to be proud of what they did, they’d take a screenie of them standing on the dead boss and print it, to hang in on their wall as a memory of their accomplishment. But no, that’s not enough for the raiding crowd. They need to shove it into other people’s faces. In the danger of my repeating myself, but…that’s petty.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Nobody cares if Arenanet decides to add legendary armors that don’t require raiding. (As long as it still takes a lot of work to do.) They can reward with legendaries whatever feat they consider worthy of a legendary. What we want is the raid skins to be exclusive to raids, ie: can’t get that same skin without raiding.

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

There’s a very good reason people care actually. This is a social game and skins are supposed to be trophies, and with raiding the devs are finally making that come true. Can’t do the content? You don’t get the rare skins. This is an MMO and that genre has to reward its best players with things you can’t have, and since you can’t get better and better stats then the game rewards with cosmetic.

You can keep calling this petty but that’s just an MMO working as intended. If you want to use whatever skin you like without any limitation you should play Saints Row 3 instead.

That said, I’m sure there will be cool skins in the gem store if you want something for nothing.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Ehecatl.9172:

Kimyrielle.3826:

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

The legendary skin is a trophy that is dazzling and beautiful. You wear it to put it on display so people know what you did to accomplish it.

That the definition of bragging. "Hey, look at how AWESOME I am I am a RAIDER!!!’ Bragging is a low thing to do. If people would simply want to be proud of what they did, they’d take a screenie of them standing on the dead boss and print it, to hang in on their wall as a memory of their accomplishment. But no, that’s not enough for the raiding crowd. They need to shove it into other people’s faces. In the danger of my repeating myself, but…that’s petty.

You’d probably just complain about all the accolades they got for killing the boss.

Kimyrielle.3826:

That the definition of bragging. "Hey, look at how AWESOME I am I am a RAIDER!!!’ Bragging is a low thing to do. If people would simply want to be proud of what they did, they’d take a screenie of them standing on the dead boss and print it, to hang in on their wall as a memory of their accomplishment. But no, that’s not enough for the raiding crowd. They need to shove it into other people’s faces. In the danger of my repeating myself, but…that’s petty.

From my point of view you’re the one being petty for trying to deny them their trophy’s significance just because you want to look pretty.

To each their own.

There is no problem with having raiding be one of the requirements for the first sets of legendary armor imo, as long as the raiders have to do other types of content as well. I say this because current legendaries do have requirements across different game modes. Raiders should not be special in this regard, because catering to the raiding crowd in the expense of others is not the way to go with GW2.

Of course, we still haven’t played GW2 raids, so we don’t really know if they will be as time-consuming as WoW raids. Maybe they will be more accessible to the people who want to play them. It is also possible that they will be different enough to appeal to player who don’t usually like raiding. We will just have to wait and see.

Ohoni.6057:

I hope the legendary skins rewarded from raids are only obtainable through raiding. I also hope that they release other legendary armor skins that are obtainable through other means.

That would be better than nothing, but what if a player prefered the look of the kind exclusive to raiding?

Seriously, if I wanted to raid I would be playing Wildstar, “not raiding” is one of the things I love best about GW2, and I’d hate to see raiding corrupt this game’s culture. It’s not that I don’t think I’m capable of raiding, it’s that I have absolutely no interest in it under any circumstances, and hope that the developers can respect that.

If you don’t want to play all parts the game has to offer, that’s fine. But don’t expect to get all the rewards then.

Wow such hypocrisy and hate. How do you wake up every morning knowing you take pride in insulting, stereotyping and denying some pleasures for others, while having the opportunity and accessibility to do exactly what they do for the same rewards but refusing due to some otherworldly reasons that are born from egoism and narcissism only. And you call others petty. Even Ohoni is more understanding and he is a vicious critic in my book!

Kimyrielle.3826:

That the definition of bragging. "Hey, look at how AWESOME I am I am a RAIDER!!!’ Bragging is a low thing to do. If people would simply want to be proud of what they did, they’d take a screenie of them standing on the dead boss and print it, to hang in on their wall as a memory of their accomplishment. But no, that’s not enough for the raiding crowd. They need to shove it into other people’s faces. In the danger of my repeating myself, but…that’s petty.

Yes. Bragging is the whole point. It’s the ENTIRE point. Even though I won’t raid myself and my character will look like a scrub, I EMBRACE the fact that the best players will get to show off.

You have a social game, it’s going to have hard content, and people that went through the trouble of doing the hardest content deserve to show off that cool armor.

MMO working as intended.

Is wanting a trophy petty? I’m not going to weigh in on that. What’s petty to me, though, is deciding that every reward put into a game has to be accessible to you, no matter what you choose to not do.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Testudo.4620:

people that complain about not wanting to play hard content for exclusive gear just remind me of soccer moms asking to see the manager

“Live and let live” is a concept that’s apparently alien to some people. I don’t care what items you have and where you got it from. Why do you care what I have and what I had to do to get it? It’s just…petty. One person loves to raid to get their legendary. That’s ok. The next person rather kills 10,000 karka. That’s also ok. Both takes time and effort. But the average raider apparently can’t be happy unless they can shove their “Elite Status” in other people’s faces. It’s the only reason why raiders would ever need exclusive gear for, after all. Can’t probably brag with a legendary if scrubs like me can get one for killing 10,000 karka, after all. As I said…petty.

Nobody cares if Arenanet decides to add legendary armors that don’t require raiding. (As long as it still takes a lot of work to do.) They can reward with legendaries whatever feat they consider worthy of a legendary. What we want is the raid skins to be exclusive to raids, ie: can’t get that same skin without raiding.

As I said…petty. There is no good reason why you would care about what stuff I have.

Because people believe in getting rewards proportional to effort. Put it this way if there was an alternative to get this stuff it needs to be through a method equally difficult as the raids. Or if it is easier, then it should take significantly LONGER to get the item.

xarallei.4279:

NoTrigger.8396:

yea i hope no one is going to sell spots to people who dont wanna put in the effort to clear the content.

Unfortunately, this probably will happen. Already happens for dungeons and if you look at WoW heroic/mythic raiders sell runs all the time.

FF14 also, it’s an extremely profitable market.

Ehecatl.9172:

Kimyrielle.3826:

That the definition of bragging. "Hey, look at how AWESOME I am I am a RAIDER!!!’ Bragging is a low thing to do. If people would simply want to be proud of what they did, they’d take a screenie of them standing on the dead boss and print it, to hang in on their wall as a memory of their accomplishment. But no, that’s not enough for the raiding crowd. They need to shove it into other people’s faces. In the danger of my repeating myself, but…that’s petty.

From my point of view you’re the one being petty for trying to deny them their trophy’s significance just because you want to look pretty.

To each their own.

You know…killing 10,000 Karka is still an accomplishment. It’s not hard, sure. But it takes time and effort to get done. Both raiders and “farmers” can be proud of what they did and should be. I have a legendary weapon. Am I proud of it? Absolutely. I didn’t have to do any hard content for getting it (TA Up isn’t really hard, you know?), but in my opinion this doesn’t change its significant one single bit. Not for me.

Now, a raider isn’t happy with this. Because nobody looking at my legendary knows if I played for it or simply bought it with my credit card. You cannot really brag with a legendary weapon for that simple reason. That’s why they want the armor to be raid exclusive. They don’t want a trophy. They want to brag. I will readily admit that I hate braggers. I think it’s low and petty and doesn’t deserve any respect, either in real life nor in game.

Though I think the raiders are in for a nasty surprise if they think raiding will be the main way of getting the armor. Raiding will be a step in the process, but there will be many other requirements that will most likely not involve raiding, like say sPvP. The legendaries will likely involve doing various types of content.

xarallei.4279:

Though I think the raiders are in for a nasty surprise if they think raiding will be the main way of getting the armor. Raiding will be a step in the process, but there will be many other requirements that will most likely not involve raiding, like say sPvP. The legendaries will likely involve doing various types of content.

I think that’s why they made them legendary. If it was a straight prestige piece, skins would have sufficed.

They’re signing people that get these tokens up for a long grind.

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen. People just want endgame stuff without any effort. There is no single mmo out there that would let you obtain anything you want by only doing stuff you want.

You want it? Then work for it. You don’t want to do that? Well, the kitten deal with it. Stop thinking you’ll get everything by screaming on forums. That’s how you’re ruining the game for others.

Also:

I cannot get pvp armour without doing pvp.
I cannot get fractals skins/tonic without doing fractlas.
I cannot get wvw skins without doing wvw.
I cannot get this title without doing what’s required for it.
I cannot get this mini without doing what’s required for it.

Stop acting worse than 3 year old kids, seriously.