Guild Wars 2

xarallei.4279:

Though I think the raiders are in for a nasty surprise if they think raiding will be the main way of getting the armor. Raiding will be a step in the process, but there will be many other requirements that will most likely not involve raiding, like say sPvP. The legendaries will likely involve doing various types of content.

They were pretty upfront about that.

I have a feeling there will be other rewards as well.

Ohoni.6057:

I’d hate to see raiding corrupt this game’s culture.

What?

Well I hope that the majority of the work to get the armor pieces are related to raiding, because I would like the armor skins to feel strongly related to a specific raid and force players to do that raid more than once.

That said, I think it’s fine if the raid armor pieces require to do other parts of the game. Getting a legendary should be a journey, and they should force you out of your element and do things you wouldn’t normally do. I’d deny access to the legendary armors to people who don’t want to raid, but I’d also deny access to legendaries to those who just want to stay in there comfort zone.

Ohoni.6057:

Maybe cause you shouldnt have it ez way.

I don’t want an ez way. I want an alternative. It can be even harder than raiding, I suppose, I just want it to not involve raiding.

Keep in mind the raids are not dropping legendary items. They are dropping items used to make precursors. Its highly likely the other parts will also be targeted at many different forms of play.

Fair enough, then I just want those precursors to drop elsewhere too. We don’t know exactly how any of this will work, I’m just making the point, as early and often as possible, that I don’t want to have to do raids to earn these items. At the most I might be willing to do one raid, just to tick it off the box, but I don’t want it to become one of those things where I’ll have to raid nightly or weekly or even monthly in order to earn it.

Anything that you have to repeat multiple times, you should be able to choose what activity it is you’re repeating. You should only have to repeat content that you enjoy playing.

Lol, does the word Raid scare you so much? If they done an alternative way outside raidings that were 3 times harder and longer, and requiring more organization, you wouldn’t really mind? hahaha

If you are being legitimately serious about all this, this is really fascinating how people minds are so conditioned by simple things as words; Did you know that they called tequatl and triple trouble overworld raids back then?

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

PS: None of the things you listed is all that important, at least not in my opinion. Locking non-raiders out from an entire -class- of items (legendary armor) is a different beast, won’t you agree? I wouldn’t even have cared all -that- much about raiders getting their exclusive armor skin, but why can’t the rest of us work on legendary armor as well, our way?

I’ts a perfect decison from Anet, because if you see somebody with a legendary fractal back, you know, omg that man did the lvl 100 fractal, and the same with legendary pvp back.

Why does that matter though? Who cares if he did the 100 Fractal or PvP or jumped up and down in town all day? What does any of that matter? And why would he need a special backpack to show off that he’s “done a thing,” when a title would do the job just as well?

If it’s challenging and requires a lot time spend on it to learn it and do it. I don’t really see any problem in raiders getting richer than non-raiders.

If you don’t see a problem with it, that’s fine, I see enough of a problem with it for the both of us.

Doesn’t matter I suspect: if you don’t raid, you probably don’t need it,

You’re copy/pasting that response from other games, and it really doesn’t apply here. In other games, raid gear provides higher stats, so the raid fans like to trot out “well if you don’t raid then you really don’t need it anyways,” but in GW2 the raid gear won’t be providing higher stats, so if I “don’t need it” then neither do raiders. It’s not about need , it’s about want.

People who don’t like to raid should have just as many rewards. They’re just not going to be the same rewards as they’d get via raiding. Those rewards may not say “Legendary” on the tin, but let’s be real here: GW2 gear is not and has never been about the stats, and there’s is not not nor has there ever been anything particularly legendary about map completion or farming a buttload of materials.

This is a silly argument to make. I mean, I just cannot imagine someone reading this statement who wants Legendary armor, and going “you know what, he’s right, I don’t really need legendary armor after all.” Absolutely zero minds will be changed. If players who don’t want to raid should be happy not having legendary armor, then players who do like to raid should be doubly as happy that non-raiders can have that armor too. There is absolutely no justification otherwise.

You do not deserve access to every reward in the game if you are not willing to do every type of content in the game. I’d like the lumi skins, but I can’t be bothered to farm up all the stuff required to get them. Thus, I don’t have them. There’s nothing wrong with that.

and yet I would fully support them opening up more options for you to get the Lumi skins, even though I already have mine. I just would appreciate the same courtesy.

Believe it or not even current content can be done with a balanced non-meta party. just like in GW1, if you tweak builds around the strengths and weaknesses of individual players and classes you’re well equipped mechanically to tackle any content in the game. You just have to be willing to build a team that wants to work as a team. Those who have had problems with rude PUGs should really just stop pugging and make some friends

I’m in a guild, nice folks, enjoy hanging out with them, but I still hate “organized content” most of the time. I will always prefer content that you can just wander into, have fun with it for 10-20 minutes at a time, and then wander off to something else.

If you just plain don’t want to play instances, then you obviously just plain don’t want the rewards from instances,

That’s. . . complete nonsense. It’s like saying “if you don’t like a burger with mayonnaise on it, then you just plain don’t like burgers.” You can like the rewards a LOT, and you can hate the content considerably at the same time. Now that might mean that you’ll do the content even though you hate it, but nobody should be encouraging that, all it leads is disgruntled burn-out.

I don’t understand. Nobody seems to complain about the components for existing legendary equipment that you can only receive from WvW and dungeon tokens? I really don’t see the difference.

Do those who say “nobody complains about the current requirements for Legendary Weapons,” where have you been the past three years? Legendary weapons have been a fairly constant subject of debate, and has only gotten quieter recently because of all the HoT news and a lack of information on the Precursor crafting which makes such discussions a bit pointless for the time being.

For Gw2, you show up with exotic/ascended armour, play with whomever you like because anyone can play pretty much any role as long as they’re not imbeciles and that’s pretty much it.

Which is good, IF you can do that and expect a reasonable chance that the raid will succeed (who cares if you can raid but are almost guaranteed to fail?), and if the amount of time spent raiding is relatively small. If you can clear the raid in an hour or so, and you only have to do it as much as you need to run a dungeon to get components for a Legendary weapon (ie ~6 or so times?), then I could probably “close my eyes and think of England,” but more reasonable estimates would put the average raid at over an hour start to finish, with a decent chance of complete failure, and probably having to do it dozens of times to make even a single set of Legendary armor, much less several sets I’d want for all my characters. Even if I just wanted the skins for them I’d need to get three full sets.

All pve content is scripted fights with a gimmick that requires you to do more than let auto attack do all the work.

True, the distinction is in the degree to which they try to attach added importance to some content of this type over others. The problem is not that raids exist, it’s that they are seeming to get higher priority as “important” content than other types, with greater rewards, when really it’s all the same stuff.

AND JESUS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SKINS. In wow, you know if you have better you are a god over who doeasn’t. That’s the huge difference.

Skins apparently don’t matter much to you. That’s fine, they don’t have to. Just try to understand that skins are more important to some other people than they are to you, and whatever it is that you do care about, imagine that those people value skins as much as you value that thing. Then take another look at the issue from their perspective.

YOU GUYS ALL WANT REWARDS FOR NOTHING. I hate this attitude and shows a weak personality. If you want a shiny thing, work for it.

I’m willing to work for it, as hard or harder than a raider, I just want to do that work in a field other than raiding.

The thing is, it’s not harming the game.

Neither is exclusive rewards (they have been doing it for 3 years, they see no reason to change it)

if it were up to you, this game wouldn’t even have WvW or sPvP because you only want anet to focus 100% of their effort on WHAT YOU LIKE.

The problem with all your logic. You only want anet developement to cater towards the way YOU LIKE IT.

News flash, not everyone , not even a small percentage is like you. You simply want anet to do what makes you happy instead of thinking about the other population.

I don’t mind that they cater to other types of players, so long as that doesn’t come at the expense of what I’m trying to do. I don’t mind that the have sPvP, until they make a global nerf to a power because it was OP in PvP, while it was perfectly fine in PvE. I don’t mind that they include raiding, until they say that if you want the new Legendary Armors, you can’t get them unless you engage in the raiding yourself. So long as they don’t get in my way, I don’t care if 90% of the game is stuff I want no part in, but when those elements try to take things away from me, then yeah, I have a problem with that.

There has to be a long term goal for players to raid, and if you think a puny title is enough you’re out of your mind. A unique set of armor to show off your feats of strength is just what it takes.

Then they shouldn’t have raids, simple as that.

If players will not raid unless they are bribed into it with special rewards, then clearly they don’t actually enjoy raiding, they just like shiny rewards (and perhaps the ridiculous feeling of being “better” than those who don’t have those shiny rewards). If people genuinely enjoy raiding, if raiding content is an activity worth spending developer time on, then so long as the raid offers a quantity of loot sufficient to balance out what they could be making elsewhere in the game, unique rewards are entirely unnecessary.

Again, if you want legendary armors that can be obtained outside of raids that’s something I can sympathize with, but ask for new skins.

But what if the skin I want is the one that only the raid drops? Or for that matter what if the skin raiders want is the skin that doesn’t drop from raids at all? Why not just let everyone play the content they enjoy, and work towards the skin they do want?

Just chiming in to say that if raid skins are accessable anywhere except raids I will be leaving the game

Thank you!

Than why do you care if he gets exclusive skin from the raid?
What’s it even matter to you?

I don’t care whether he gets the skin or not, I care whether I can or not. Don’t try to frame this as some sort of an “equally selfish” situation. I want us to BOTH have the thing we want, he’s the one insisting on having what he wants and on my not having what I want.

The legendary skin is a trophy that is dazzling and beautiful. You wear it to put it on display so people know what you did to accomplish it. It may not mean much to some people but it means a lot to others. The point is they worked hard to get that trophy and want it to mean something.

A skin should not be a trophy. Unlike a trophy, a skin has inherent value. If players want trophies as a sign of their accomplishment, there are Titles for that, or perhaps even actual trophies that they could place in their home instance, or wave around as an emote for all who care, but armor and weapon skins should not be considered as “trophies.”

Yes, many people play GW2 to get away from raids. This is mainly because of GW1 but also because of some GW2 design choices.

Locking things behind raids would be stupid. I’m not saying the devs won’t do it, but it would be stupid…

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

PS: None of the things you listed is all that important, at least not in my opinion. Locking non-raiders out from an entire -class- of items (legendary armor) is a different beast, won’t you agree? I wouldn’t even have cared all -that- much about raiders getting their exclusive armor skin, but why can’t the rest of us work on legendary armor as well, our way?

You do realize that it was their decision to add raids because this game interests no one but casuals? Maybe they actually want a bigger playerbase but since there’s literally nothing to do in pve after quite a short time, they decided to bring something people could work on? You’re a casual, okay enjoy that, but why do you feel entitled to having the best stuff in game? Why do you feel it’s your right to dictate how the game will develop? You might not like the direction its heading, but tons of people do. And the fact you completely fail to understand why people like the idea shows you really do not know what you’re talking about.

Because just simply deal with the fact you can’t get everything you want. Why should you be able to obtain it? Because you bought the game? By lowering the standards, you also lower the game difficulty and there are lots people who do not like that. Deal with the fact different people will have different opinions. People who were actually interested in raiding weren’t able to do so in the game so far, so please don’t ruin it for them. I’m not sure what you would like to be rewarded for with legendary skins. Grinding silverwastes? Doing the same easy mode dungeons for the millionth time? I honestly have no idea what pve people do in this game.

If they actually succeed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

Edit: As there are people who play this game to be casual, there are also players who play it for something else (combat system for example) and some of them do not want it to be this casual. Stop thinking you have the right to say what’s gonna happen.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

PS: None of the things you listed is all that important, at least not in my opinion. Locking non-raiders out from an entire -class- of items (legendary armor) is a different beast, won’t you agree? I wouldn’t even have cared all -that- much about raiders getting their exclusive armor skin, but why can’t the rest of us work on legendary armor as well, our way?

I agree! A Volcano releases an eruption that speeds Kimyrielle on her/his way, but boils her/his enemies in hot lava. Metaphorical hot lava, of course. I haven’t found a way to get volcanic lava to correspond to posts yet. If anyone does find out a way, and tells me, I will give them a cookie. And a good cookie, not a lame one with raisins…

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

Better question. Why should Arenanet keep their game exclusively casual when they can have content for both the casual and the hardcore raiders? I’m sorry but WoW and SW:ToR have both crowds, so why can’t Guild Wars 2? It’s not like they’re taking away the world content or the living world to create raids. It’s going to be the same Guild Wars 2, only with some extras for the more dedicated players.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

PS: None of the things you listed is all that important, at least not in my opinion. Locking non-raiders out from an entire -class- of items (legendary armor) is a different beast, won’t you agree? I wouldn’t even have cared all -that- much about raiders getting their exclusive armor skin, but why can’t the rest of us work on legendary armor as well, our way?

since when did anet said it was locked out ?
there is no attunement process, there is no requirements outside the basics ( probably lvl 80, exotics, 10 man party)

So tell me, how exactly are they locking you out?

is it because you need a party to do it? because it might be too hard and your afraid of failing?

The only thing locking you out of doing raids is yourself.

You don’t get to have it your way, because “your” way is just easy and there is enough of “your” way in the game already. Farming open world is already ideal, popular , and will probably remain the best way to buy 95% of whatever it is that you want in this game anyways. So what if raids get exclusive rewards. PvP already has them, fractals does too.

you know whats more toxic than an elitist crowd? people who think they should have 100% of the rewards the way they want it or else. They want things handed to them in only a way they enjoy and don’t care about the rest.

Bearhugger.4326:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Laraley.7695:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen.

Yes, GW2 is (well…was) fairly casual, indeed. It was the one MMO for people like me. There are 20 MMOs out there that cater to elitists and people who want to brag with exclusive gear. Seriously, why is this sort of people even playing this game and then trying to shape it into something it was at least at launch not meant to be? I don’t get that.

Better question. Why should Arenanet keep their game exclusively casual when they can have content for both the casual and the hardcore raiders? I’m sorry but WoW and SW:ToR have both crowds, so why can’t Guild Wars 2? It’s not like they’re taking away the world content or the living world to create raids. It’s going to be the same Guild Wars 2, only with some extras for the more dedicated players.

This thread is your answer. Because people with no intention to put any effort into doing raids will complain on forums they cannot get the raid rewards.

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen. People just want endgame stuff without any effort. There is no single mmo out there that would let you obtain anything you want by only doing stuff you want.

And that’s fine. Every game has it’s own strengths and weaknesses, and one of GW2’s great strengths is exactly that it provokes this sort of impression, and thus drives the players who think it away from the game, which makes the game better for everyone else. It’s like driving all the snakes out of Ireland.

Lol, does the word Raid scare you so much? If they done an alternative way outside raidings that were 3 times harder and longer, and requiring more organization, you wouldn’t really mind? hahaha

It really depends. I have a pretty decent idea of what raiding will be like, based on previous uses of that term, just as if you tell me that a game has “PvP” I have a pretty decent idea of what that means. I do not like raiding as it exists in any other game. I have zero interest in it on a conceptual level, so I highly doubt that I will enjoy GW2’s raiding, no matter how much they improve on the standard formula. I can’t promise, sight unseen, that I would prefer any alternative to raiding, but chances are that I would at least like it better, and even if I don’t someone else probably would, and any alternative is better than no alternative, even if it turns out that I hate both and would be pushing for another one.

Did you know that they called tequatl and triple trouble overworld raids back then?

Yeah, and I’m not particularly a fan of either in their current forms.

You do realize that it was their decision to add raids because this game interests no one but casuals?

Yes, and that’s a good thing, and should remain that way. Play to your strengths. Casuals are what have made GW2 one of the more successful MMOs out there, while “hardcore” games like Wildstar completely faceplanted.

You’re a casual, okay enjoy that, but why do you feel entitled to having the best stuff in game? Why do you feel it’s your right to dictate how the game will develop?

I could, and do, say the same thing about raiders. Why do you feel that you deserve the best things and nobody else does? Why can’t we both get the best things? I’m not trying to take anything from you, why do you insist on taking anything from me?

If they actually suceed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

Yes, so long as people work an appropriate amount to earn them.

Why should Arenanet keep their game exclusively casual when they can have content for both the casual and the hardcore raiders?

They’re free to do this, so long as it does not come at the cost of raid-exclusive rewards. If they can attract raiders to the game then that’s great. If they can only do this by restricting rewards away from not raiders, then it’s totally not worth it. In either case, I don’t see GW2 raids attracting a ton of new players, the game already has a well-earned reputation as “not the place for raiding,” and that reputation does them more good than harm.

Ohoni.6057:

This is exactly why the game is so casual and has one of the worst pve content I’ve ever seen. People just want endgame stuff without any effort. There is no single mmo out there that would let you obtain anything you want by only doing stuff you want.

And that’s fine. Every game has it’s own strengths and weaknesses, and one of GW2’s great strengths is exactly that it provokes this sort of impression, and thus drives the players who think it away from the game, which makes the game better for everyone else. It’s like driving all the snakes out of Ireland.

Lol, does the word Raid scare you so much? If they done an alternative way outside raidings that were 3 times harder and longer, and requiring more organization, you wouldn’t really mind? hahaha

It really depends. I have a pretty decent idea of what raiding will be like, based on previous uses of that term, just as if you tell me that a game has “PvP” I have a pretty decent idea of what that means. I do not like raiding as it exists in any other game. I have zero interest in it on a conceptual level, so I highly doubt that I will enjoy GW2’s raiding, no matter how much they improve on the standard formula. I can’t promise, sight unseen, that I would prefer any alternative to raiding, but chances are that I would at least like it better, and even if I don’t someone else probably would, and any alternative is better than no alternative, even if it turns out that I hate both and would be pushing for another one.

Did you know that they called tequatl and triple trouble overworld raids back then?

Yeah, and I’m not particularly a fan of either in their current forms.

You do realize that it was their decision to add raids because this game interests no one but casuals?

Yes, and that’s a good thing, and should remain that way. Play to your strengths. Casuals are what have made GW2 one of the more successful MMOs out there, while “hardcore” games like Wildstar completely faceplanted.

You’re a casual, okay enjoy that, but why do you feel entitled to having the best stuff in game? Why do you feel it’s your right to dictate how the game will develop?

I could, and do, say the same thing about raiders. Why do you feel that you deserve the best things and nobody else does? Why can’t we both get the best things? I’m not trying to take anything from you, why do you insist on taking anything from me?

If they actually suceed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

Yes, so long as people work an appropriate amount to earn them.

Why do you think raiders is getting the best gear? Because it is legendary or because you like the skin? The gear raiders are getting isn’t any better than anything else in the game and as pver you can easily farm ascended without ever so much touching raids.

If we are going on this path, why can’t i have fractal skins without doing fractals? Why can’t i have arah weapons without doing arah? or any of the exclusive pvp sets?

Laraley.7695:

If they actually succeed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

What raids require brains? The more complicated raids of ANY game just require memorization.

All of them—no matter how complicated—require trivial amounts of cognitive processing…

Does “avoid red spot on ground” require significant brains, or only okay-ish reflex speed?

This is NOT aimed at you, but most hardcore raiders seem to be drama queens who have an inflated sense of self-brain-power but would doubtless flunk a hardcore math (or other subject area!) skills test that actually measured brains.

Again… seriously this kind of topic lead nowhere, offer no viable alternative and most of the time its just about “I don’t like Xcontent but I want the reward the world is unfair”.

And YOU decide to not participate in Xtype content but still want the reward… what a joke. I don’t wanna go Hard PvP and yet I’m pretty sure I’m gonna love the legendary PvP backpack so I should have a way to get it in PvE right? Are you kiddin me… If I want it I will end up “tryhard” PvP to get it and that’s the way life/games always has and always will work. And it’s fine, if YOU choose not to do some parts of the game why exactly do you deserve any reward?

Imo this kind of thread should just be instalock… And once again, what a shock Ohoni is the OP, the same guy that creat the “i don’t want hard content” thread and probably so many other like that…

Ohoni.6057:

And that’s fine. Every game has it’s own strengths and weaknesses, and one of GW2’s great strengths is exactly that it provokes this sort of impression, and thus drives the players who think it away from the game, which makes the game better for everyone else. It’s like driving all the snakes out of Ireland.

No, it’s fine to you. Luckily, you’re not the game developer and you do not get to decide if the game stays casual or not. Again, better for you, not everyone else.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, and that’s a good thing, and should remain that way. Play to your strengths. Casuals are what have made GW2 one of the more successful MMOs out there, while “hardcore” games like Wildstar completely faceplanted.

Once again, that’s only your opinion and you do not have the right to decide if it will stay that way. Oh yeah? Hardcore games like wow? FF14 has gear progerssion, too and it’s on about the same success level as gw2.

Ohoni.6057:

I could, and do, say the same thing about raiders. Why do you feel that you deserve the best things and nobody else does? Why can’t we both get the best things? I’m not trying to take anything from you, why do you insist on taking anything from me?

That’s pretty simple. Because the raiders would clear the content that’s required to get the exclusive rewards. No one is taking anything from you, but yourself. Do you see ome potential raiders complaining they cannot get some stuff just because they do not want to do the casual content? Nope.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, so long as people work an appropriate amount to earn them.

If you’re going to give rewards that require skill to people without any skill you completely devaluate it. What would be the appropriate amount of work to deserve rewards from raids? Clearing AC 100 times? Doing map copletion 10 times? Would the skill reflected somewhere? No, since no current pve content take any skill. You are not entitled to rewards if you do not do what’s needed to earn them, it’s that simple.

Ohoni.6057:

the game already has a well-earned reputation as “not the place for raiding,” and that reputation does them more good than harm.

lol in what way? All it’s done is attract a lot of people who seem keen on crying about content that requires effort. The game hasn’t gone up in total population thanks to some casual influx as hardcore players left.

If it did, they wouldn’t of had to create megaservers since overworld would be swarming with casuals “just playing the game”.

Ohoni.6057:

Why should Arenanet keep their game exclusively casual when they can have content for both the casual and the hardcore raiders?

They’re free to do this, so long as it does not come at the cost of raid-exclusive rewards. If they can attract raiders to the game then that’s great. If they can only do this by restricting rewards away from not raiders, then it’s totally not worth it. In either case, I don’t see GW2 raids attracting a ton of new players, the game already has a well-earned reputation as “not the place for raiding,” and that reputation does them more good than harm.

We’ll too late ohoni, they are adding raid-exclusive rewards whether you like it or not.
You want anet too 100% focus on casuals.

Guess what, that’s not a good business decision.

You think McDonalds would be better off serving breakfast only? no other type of menu? Obviously gw2 isn’t mcdonalds of the MMO world but you get my point. You don’t cater 100% towards certain group and alienate the others. That’s potentially missing revenue. You maximize profits and continue gaining revenue by getting all types of players into your MMO. Casuals can love it , so can hardcore players.

It’s more than likely, strictly a business decision. They want to attract players. Thats why your seeing raids, thats why your seeing F2P. For new players. Because contrary to your belief, focusing on casual content isn’t good enough!! people have been quitting this game slowly and slowly.. And they will continue to until anet does something about it and now they are….

Your opinion of “ppl going to quit cause of raids” is ridiculous. There’s SO MUCH stuff being added. I doubt people are just gonna leave because they couldn’t get some shiny. I have yet to get my frac skin/legendary weapons or anything of worth, but I continue to play. Its a fun game.

You are simply complaining because you want something but don’t like the way anet made it achievable… that, once again, is your problem and personal opinion. And i’m glad anet doesn’t share that opinion.

A Volcano.2510:

Laraley.7695:

If they actually succeed at making the raids difficult so it requires actually using your brain and skill, then the skins should be only exclusive to that said raid. They already stayed on the casual level with not adding gear progression and higher level cap. You seriously cannot be asking them to hand out rewards meant to be for raids to everyone.

What raids require brains? The more complicated raids of ANY game just require memorization.

All of them—no matter how complicated—require trivial amounts of cognitive processing…

Does “avoid red spot on ground” require significant brains, or only okay-ish reflex speed?

This is NOT aimed at you, but most hardcore raiders seem to be drama queens who have an inflated sense of self-brain-power but would doubtless flunk a hardcore math (or other subject area!) skills test that actually measured brains.

Yet, there are people who aren’t able to perform well even after being carried many times. I’m talking about other games, obviously. Raids and most content in other games actually require more skill than ‘’stack and icebow’‘. I’ve played games with quite complicated boss mechanics that actually did require you to use your brain.

This might be true for some raiders, but mostly it isn’t. At least I’ve always met people who were interested in completely different things. They wanted to be challenged and have something to work towards, which gw2 lacks completely right now.

You guys can have legendary armor for doing what you want, but each kind of content should be given a different and unique version. In fact its very likely that I won’t get this legendary armor. While I don’t like it, I can recognize that its healthy for a game to be like this. This unique armor is your reward, your “medal” it shows what you have done, something for you to be proud of, and like it or not that item is devalued when other people get it through other methods. Would be nice if that wasn’t the case, but it is, humans are illogical and petty in that sense. But it doesn’t change the fact that is how it is and its healthy for a game to have unique rewards to feed this. Sorry.

But to the same end, why should you get to deny these people their pride in so that you can have your shiny?

SkiTz.4590:

Guess what, that’s not a good business decision.

Depends. If it gets box sales/gem sales past the cost of development, for sure.

If turns out development costs were higher than the revenue generated, then it was a poor decision – it’s a risk.

~~~

Now I know what I said there is blindingly obvious, but it’s an important thing to think about.

Anet is taking a calculated risk that raids will drive more people into the game, and explicitly more spenders, than it costs to develop the conent. They’re gonna talk them up as a major feature right now, of course they are – they want to make their dev costs back.

If people don’t convert and actually do the raids in big enough numbers, don’t expect to see any more. It is now on the people who claimed to want to have raids to prove they’re a good business decision. The good news for you is that Anet is doing everything they can to help you out by putting unique rewards behind the raid wall.

Why do you think raiders is getting the best gear? Because it is legendary or because you like the skin?

At least the former, possibly the latter, although that’s more subjective.

If we are going on this path, why can’t i have fractal skins without doing fractals? Why can’t i have arah weapons without doing arah? or any of the exclusive pvp sets?

All good questions and I hope they solve all of those too. Why not indeed?

I don’t wanna go Hard PvP and yet I’m pretty sure I’m gonna love the legendary PvP backpack so I should have a way to get it in PvE right?

Sure, why not?

Imo this kind of thread should just be instalock… And once again, what a shock Ohoni is the OP, the same guy that creat the “i don’t want hard content” thread and probably so many other like that…

I do have my issues advocacy.

Oh yeah? Hardcore games like wow? FF14 has gear progerssion, too and it’s on about the same success level as gw2.

No comparison to WoW is in any way valid. WoW is a black swan. Ok, “WoW is a black swan” is a valid comparison, but no other comparison is. WoW just so dominated the second gen MMO market that nothing else could really take root, and it’s hanging on now but already in a massive decline.

As for FF, it’s a Final Fantasy game, of course it’s doing reasonably well. It even did reasonably well when it was awful, and now it’s less awful. GW2 has to survive on its gameplay alone.

That’s pretty simple. Because the raiders would clear the content that’s required to get the exclusive rewards. No one is taking anything from you, but yourself.

Look, Legendary armor does not exist because raiders raid. It exists because ANet had an art team make it. If they didn’t also decide to add raids, then the Legendary armor would be added to the game through some other method, so the fact that ANet locked them behind raiding means that tehy ARE taking those alternate methods away from us.

What would be the appropriate amount of work to deserve rewards from raids? Clearing AC 100 times? Doing map copletion 10 times? Would the skill reflected somewhere?

Probably well less than any of that, you have an awfully high opinion of what “running a raid” is worth.

lol in what way? All it’s done is attract a lot of people who seem keen on crying about content that requires effort.

Yes.

The game hasn’t gone up in total population thanks to some casual influx as hardcore players left.

Yes, it has. They announced at 5m players today, that’s over twice what it launched with.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, it has. They announced at 5m players today, that’s over twice what it launched with.

That is incorrect. There have been 5 million copies of “Guild wars 2” sold to date.

That includes the base game AND HoT. So if you bought both the base game and HoT then that is 2 units sold. I suspect the number of accounts is around 3 million, and the number of active players (log in at least once a week) is around 400k.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, it has. They announced at 5m players today, that’s over twice what it launched with.

Subtract 5 of those 5 million for me please, I may have more than one account by now.
Also, don’t throw around numbers that are not representative. Noone said those 5 million players are active.

Ohoni.6057:

snip

So the comparsion to wildstar is okay because it’s better for your argument but comparsion to other games isn’t because it doesn’t?

Well, lucky for you they decided to add raids and put the legendary armour there. They’re not taking anything from you. Everyone can go and do raids and everyone can get the rewards. If you don’t want to do so, then guess what? You’re not gonna get the rewards.

And you have an awfuly high opinion of what ‘’running AC 100 times’’ is worth.

And lol, no. They might have announced 5 millions, but that is not the number of actual players. There are people with multiple accounts, for example. I myself have four.

Edit: Apprently it was the number of coppies sold, lol. There’s way way way less active people right now and the population is not growing really.

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

One one hand, I hate to have stuff locked away behind game modes and other (to me, admittedly) barriers.

On the other hand, I want the term “Legendary” to mean something.

So long as it requires heavy investment throughout the game, and not just in raiding… I think I’m okay with having an important part of the quest for legendary armor (or weapons) involve raiding. As some others have said, legendary crafting should be a journey, forcing you out of your comfort zones.

(I really don’t like saying that, as it goes against a lot of my personal feelings. But there it is.)

I’ve wanted to get the heavy wurm armor + teq weapons for my warrior since they came out. Unfortunately I hate doing teq + wurm and once I got all the achievements I haven’t touched them again. I didn’t get the skins obviously.

Is that a problem? No, they are there to show that some people obviously like that content a lot more than others and did it tons of times to eventually get those sets. This is the same.

You say titles should represent that? I got the teq/wurm achievs… it took me 1 day. That doesn’t mean I run them all the time. If I see someone with teq + wurm gear though I assume they put in tons of effort.

You’re just kittened off because they are calling it legendary armor, but at the end of the day the only plus is that you can change stats (which is easy to do on ascended armor as well).

Dungeons have exclusive skins. Fractals have exclusive skins. PvP has exclusive skins (I also want the Glorious Heroes’ skins, but I suck as PvP so I’m stuck with the regular Glorious ones, which are also pvp-exclusive! Tough kitten though, it’s there to show that some people are a step above in terms of PvP, and again titles wouldn’t mean kitten to show that!).

Stop whining that you can’t get everything in the game without doing everything in the game. There are thousands of skins you can chase besides this one, that you haven’t even seen yet.

…So this discussion has turned into more or less the same locked discussion from a week or two ago.

Can we not do this again? Both sides have said their piece and none of this needs to be reiterated. Of course I did contribute to this particular thread once before, but now that it has turned out this way…it is pointless.

People will be for the exclusive legendary armor, people will be against the exclusive legendary armor. Nothing is more conclusive than this.

EDIT: I meant twice, not once. Sorry.

yea this thread will be deleted sooner or later just like the last one ohoni started

There’s no point in arguing.

Raids are coming, Exclusive rewards tied into them.

If you don’t like it, too bad. Its here and anet decided thats the best way to implement it. I agree with them. So do most others. Of course there will be ppl who don’t like it. Too bad.

If you honestly expect anet (or any MMORPG company) to 100% cater towards your need , than you are going to be disappointed.

So the comparsion to wildstar is okay because it’s better for your argument but comparsion to other games isn’t because it doesn’t?

Comparisons are valid when they’re valid. They aren’t when they aren’t. You can’t compare WoW to anything that isn’t WoW, and you can’t compare FF14 to anything that isn’t based on a popular license. If FF14 is not crushing GW2 then that means GW2 is far and away better on its own merits. Wildstar is a valid comparison because it’s a unique IP MMO that has very similar gameplay to GW2’s, and yet focused on hardcore raiders, got all of them they could possibly expect, and it turns out that still wasn’t enough to keep a game running.

Well, lucky for you they decided to add raids and put the legendary armour there. They’re not taking anything from you.

They’re taking the legendary armor from me.

Everyone can go and do raids and everyone can get the rewards.

Sure, and that’s great for people that like to raid, but bad for everyone else.

If you don’t want to do so, then guess what? You’re not gonna get the rewards.

Exactly, that’s the whole point of this, to make sure that changes.

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

Unless you care, in which case it is just as much of an issue as if it offered stat advantage. It’s entirely subjective either way.

thread probably won’t be deleted, it’s relevant to an existing feature now.

Of course I also thought there’d be no raids, so I might not be a good source :p

I’ve wanted to get the heavy wurm armor + teq weapons for my warrior since they came out. Unfortunately I hate doing teq + wurm and once I got all the achievements I haven’t touched them again. I didn’t get the skins obviously.

Yes, they should have alternate methods for those as well. One good fix doesn’t mean that they can’t make other good fixes.

You say titles should represent that? I got the teq/wurm achievs… it took me 1 day. That doesn’t mean I run them all the time. If I see someone with teq + wurm gear though I assume they put in tons of effort.

Or they did it once and got lucky. If they want something that shows you put in a lot of time at Teq/Wurm, all they need is another achievement/title that requires ten completions, or fifty, or 100, or whatever you think is a valid number.

only plus is that you can change stats (which is easy to do on ascended armor as well).

Dungeons have exclusive skins. Fractals have exclusive skins. PvP has exclusive skins (I also want the Glorious Heroes’ skins, but I suck as PvP so I’m stuck with the regular Glorious ones, which are also pvp-exclusive! Tough kitten though, it’s there to show that some people are a step above in terms of PvP, and again titles wouldn’t mean kitten to show that!).

Yes, and all those should have expanded methods to earn them. If you say “here is an area where GW2 does something poorly,” that does not mean that another new area is also someplace they should handle poorly, it just means that they need to fix those areas too.

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

mrstealth.6701:

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

Legendaries aren’t just skin swapping, you also usually get infinite stat swaps on them, it’s a nice QOL bonus

So will this turn GW2 in to a grind fest? the very thing that made them different?

Windsagio.1340:

mrstealth.6701:

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

Legendaries aren’t just skin swapping, you also usually get infinite stat swaps on them, it’s a nice QOL bonus

It sure is, which is why it deserves to be locked behind something thats challenging and takes time and dedication. Not “spam 1 in silverwastes and go buy it”

But in the grand scheme of things. Its just QOL bonus.
Just because you don’t have the legendary armor doesn’t mean you can’t play this game….

KittensWithClaws.3097:

So will this turn GW2 in to a grind fest? the very thing that made them different?

The grind will be the same, just the grind won’t be available to people not willing to make very specific commitments:

And the people who are willing to make those commitments will call it skill.

SkiTz.4590:

Windsagio.1340:

mrstealth.6701:

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

Legendaries aren’t just skin swapping, you also usually get infinite stat swaps on them, it’s a nice QOL bonus

It sure is, which is why it deserves to be locked behind something thats challenging and takes time and dedication. Not “spam 1 in silverwastes and go buy it”

While some of us will enjoy raids, not everyone will. Some like PvP. Some like WvW. Some like open world.

GW2 has always been about playing the game modes you most enjoy without having to worry about the reward. It’s about the journey, not the destination. That doesnt need to change.

And, please, remember, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Don’t belittle other people just because they enjoy a different aspect of the game than you do.

Ohoni.6057:

So the comparsion to wildstar is okay because it’s better for your argument but comparsion to other games isn’t because it doesn’t?

Comparisons are valid when they’re valid. They aren’t when they aren’t. You can’t compare WoW to anything that isn’t WoW, and you can’t compare FF14 to anything that isn’t based on a popular license. If FF14 is not crushing GW2 then that means GW2 is far and away better on its own merits. Wildstar is a valid comparison because it’s a unique IP MMO that has very similar gameplay to GW2’s, and yet focused on hardcore raiders, got all of them they could possibly expect, and it turns out that still wasn’t enough to keep a game running.

But that’s not really a valid comparison either. GW2 followed off of GW1 which did decently well for itself. Wildstar was a totally new IP by a new company with no experience.

And Wildstar had many issues. Bugs, severe lag due to very poor optimization and yes they catered too much too the hardcore crowd perhaps. It’s always bad when you cater too much to one crowd. That’s why Anet is expanding their content to reach the raiding crowd.

Blaeys.3102:

SkiTz.4590:

Windsagio.1340:

mrstealth.6701:

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

Legendaries aren’t just skin swapping, you also usually get infinite stat swaps on them, it’s a nice QOL bonus

It sure is, which is why it deserves to be locked behind something thats challenging and takes time and dedication. Not “spam 1 in silverwastes and go buy it”

While some of us will enjoy raids, not everyone will. Some like PvP. Some like WvW. Some like open world.

GW2 has always been about playing the game modes you most enjoy without having to worry about the reward. It’s about the journey, not the destination. That doesnt need to change.

And, please, remember, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Don’t belittle other people just because they enjoy a different aspect of the game than you do.

Not belittling, i’m stating a fact.
You don’t need legendary armor to play this game. Its locked behind certain content
Like frac skins behind fracs, PvP legend back in PvP. WvW tickets for their skins. Things have different rewards depending on the content. That’s how it has been and will continue to be

Ohoni.6057:

Comparisons are valid when they’re valid. They aren’t when they aren’t. You can’t compare WoW to anything that isn’t WoW, and you can’t compare FF14 to anything that isn’t based on a popular license. If FF14 is not crushing GW2 then that means GW2 is far and away better on its own merits. Wildstar is a valid comparison because it’s a unique IP MMO that has very similar gameplay to GW2’s, and yet focused on hardcore raiders, got all of them they could possibly expect, and it turns out that still wasn’t enough to keep a game running.

What? Is WoW is some sort of divine game that no mere mortal can create a product that can compete with? I have an active WoW sub and my entire guild only logs in to raid, myself included. Furthermore, the current expansion was terrible, there won’t be any more content until the next expansion which is due for mid 2016, and the game is bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

If Arenanet wants to charm the disappointed WoW players with raid content, there hasn’t been a better time to do so, and I’m pretty happy to see them try it because I think GW2 has been better than WoW in everything except group PvE.

In fact I think the picture would have been quite different if the game had compelling PvE content on day one.

ANET has said that locking this type of gear within one game mode is a bad idea. They learned that lesson with fractals and ascended gear when it first came out.

That said, legendary gear should require components from all 3 game modes (PvE, PvP, and WvW). If it is just about grinding, it will be boring and not within the GW2 manifesto.

I love how it took only a few hours for toxic raider culture to take root in the forums.

ITT: literally every reason raids have a bad name in so many other games.

style.6173:

ANET has said that locking this type of gear within one game mode is a bad idea. They learned that lesson with fractals and ascended gear when it first came out.

That said, legendary gear should require components from all 3 game modes (PvE, PvP, and WvW). If it is just about grinding, it will be boring and not within the GW2 manifesto.

TBF, I don’t think any legendary required SPvP. But yes I agree with the notion of badges of honor for the Gift of Battle as a requirement still with the Legendary Armor announced.

I don’t see their legendary gear to be purely able to be obtained in PvE.

But that’s not really a valid comparison either. GW2 followed off of GW1 which did decently well for itself. Wildstar was a totally new IP by a new company with no experience.

The GW IP is not, itself, a massive draw though, people came to GW2 for what GW2 was. It’s no Final Fantasy, at the very least.

What? Is WoW is some sort of divine game that no mere mortal can create a product that can compete with?

In practical terms, it is. Right place, right time, got so big, so fast, that nothing can compete evenly with it. This happens in pretty much every industry. The point relvant to this discussion is that there is nothing for which you can say “well WoW did it, so clearly it’s a good idea,” because so many MMO makers have said that about so many things, only to have it blow up in their faces, because they weren’t WoW. Even Blizzard could not make another WoW, which is why they stopped trying.

In fact I think the picture would have been quite different if the game had compelling PvE content on day one.

Yes, they would have had a lot less players because the game would have been infected with the raid mentality and it would have driven everyone else out. GW2 is a refuge for people who wanted to escape raid culture.

That said, legendary gear should require components from all 3 game modes (PvE, PvP, and WvW). If it is just about grinding, it will be boring and not within the GW2 manifesto.

Requiring content from all three game modes is just requiring content from a single mode, cubed.

Windsagio.1340:

mrstealth.6701:

Malediktus.9250:

Since legendary armor is cosmetic only and offers no stat advantage over ascended, there is no issue if non raiders cannot get it.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. The only difference between this and existing legendaries is that it might require something needing a party. And that’s assuming these items won’t be made available in pve, like the current dungeon tokens are.

I would certainly prefer that they give the reward track option. It does open up another (likely less efficient) option for those with no interest/time for larger-party gameplay. But the fact that’s a primarily cosmetic thing doesn’t make that an important thing to add.

Legendaries aren’t just skin swapping, you also usually get infinite stat swaps on them, it’s a nice QOL bonus

It’s a quite costly QoL bonus, though. For the time/money/effort put into a legendary, you could change stats on an ascended item quote a few times. That does come at the cost of losing runes, but stat swapping legendary armor is also very likely going to make the rune obsolete, or sub-optimal at best.

I still have alternate weapons for my legendaries (even if they’re using the same skin) just because I still need new sigils along with the stat change.

Still, though, I’d like to see alternates for obtaining as many legendary materials as possible. PvP reward tracks could cover a lot of them, as they do with dungeon tokens now.

[edit]
I do feel it’s relevant to point out that I’m not a fan of raid style content. And I’ll likely not do any of them more than a couple times, if at all. As much as I’d like to see those other options, I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

I love how it took only a few hours for toxic raider culture to take root in the forums.

ITT: literally every reason raids have a bad name in so many other games.

Seriously. I wonder how these people managed to stay in a game for three years that according to them catered only to these casuals they obviously feel only contempt for. It’s not that there wouldn’t have been alternatives available for their taste. But noooo, they had to bring their elitism, bragging and toxic culture to the only game not having it so far. GG