Guild Wars 2

I love how people are saying that the four maps are totally worth it because they’re actually three maps in one. Big deal. Twelve maps is too kitten small for what they’re asking, especially when you look at their previous works.

Let’s compare:

Factions— four regions.
Nightfall—five regions.
Eye of the North—four more regions.

These aren’t single maps, these are huge, sprawling environments with multiple maps making them up. Say you don’t want to count Nightfall and Factions—because a campaign with added content that expands on Prophecies if you have it isn’t an expansion—you still have EOTN blowing HoT out of the water.
EOTN was forty dollars at release, if I’m not mistaken.

Just your friends. They are either broke or scrooge. Many people spend more on a single night-out.

No not boycotting, some are choosing not to purchase it because they aren’t convinced they need it (many WvW Players) some just don’t think it has $50 worth of content, and some are quite happy with it and eagerly waiting Oct 23.

All personal preferences, nothing wrong with any of them. It’s up to you to decide if it’s worth your $50 or not. Don’t base it off what others think.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Most of the people ‘boycotting’ aren’t playing the game anyway and aren’t entertaining the notion of an ‘expansion’ with four maps total. There’s a reason the core game went free-to-play, and it’s not because people are boycotting.

It’s because they aren’t playing. Period. Don’t get that twisted.

They aren’t? That’s weird. Most of the zones I go to are always well populated. Must be me.

Westwater.1095:

The whole argument of “I won’t buy HoT until I know exactly every single map, weapon and armor skin, line of dialog and waypoint I get for my money” is so confusing to me.

Do you like guild wars 2? Do you want to play NEW stuff? Because outside of half of stronghold and some changes to fotm, you’re not going to get anything new added to the base game. If all you want to do is run AC every day, then sure, I guess you don’t need HoT, but personally I don’t care what I’m getting so long as its something NEW.

Here’s the thing, the whole argument of “You should drop $50 on a preorder just because you enjoy Gw2” is confusing to ME. I don’t preorder. Unless at the very least I get something really nice for the trouble, like a limited edition artbook or something like that.

Why should I preorder? It’s not like some rare thing were there are limited copies and I have to preorder to make sure I get mine. It’s not like I get an early adopter discount. I can buy it later whenever I want. What’s the difference between buying it right now and buying it after release date? Beta access? Meh, not that big a deal to me.

I’m happy with the base game. I have yet to do map completion. I still haven’t tried all the base classes. Your argument probably holds a little better for those that have been playing since launch but not all of us have. I have plenty of game left to enjoy for what I’ve already paid and I don’t have to have SHINY NEW EXPANSION THING as soon as possible. I can wait.

I didn’t buy Gw2 itself on launch day at full price. I don’t have to buy HoT before launch day at full price either. I can always get it later. Is patience really so baffling to you?

I’m not boycotting it, I just haven’t bought it yet mainly due to money issues (bit difficult to buy while supporting two households and paying off lots of medical bills. Yeah, we’re poor. ~shrugs~).

I’m just putting away a few dollars here and there until I have enough. Now that there is an official release date, it’s a bit easier to plan financially.

Morfedel.4165:

They aren’t? That’s weird. Most of the zones I go to are always well populated. Must be me.

Yes, because the world is so populated and full, they’ve decided to offer the game for free in an attempt to tempt more people, and sales, into the game because giving it away makes oh so much sense with a robust community.

I’m boycotting HoT for now. Just because arena’s “appreciation” of existing customers.
Which looks like “no prepurchase – no appreciation”.

And yes. Should I prepurchase – I certainly will buy 75$ option, as I did at launch of gw2 three years ago. So it’s not “I have no money, so I boycott”. It is “treat me well, and I give you my money”.

Killyox.3950:

Just your friends. They are either broke or scrooge. Many people spend more on a single night-out.

Or they enjoy having consumer power? You know not giving money to promises, buying into an ever growing industry wide problem of preorders? They don’t have to be tight / poor to not want to spend their money on something they’re not happy with.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Morfedel.4165:

They aren’t? That’s weird. Most of the zones I go to are always well populated. Must be me.

Yes, because the world is so populated and full, they’ve decided to offer the game for free in an attempt to tempt more people, and sales, into the game because giving it away makes oh so much sense with a robust community.

Why wouldn’t you take this opportunity to increase your player base? Regardless of how many people currently play the game, a demo never hurts. They should have done this long ago.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Morfedel.4165:

They aren’t? That’s weird. Most of the zones I go to are always well populated. Must be me.

Yes, because the world is so populated and full, they’ve decided to offer the game for free in an attempt to tempt more people, and sales, into the game because giving it away makes oh so much sense with a robust community.

Just because they want to attract new people doesn’t mean the GW2 playerbase is declining. Even WoW has been trying to attract new people continuously during its 12 year long lifespan.

If a product is great and people enjoy playing it why not attract more people?

If Arenanet didn’t open up their game to new people the playerbase would slowly but surely decline.

rotten.9753:

I like bashing Anet but saying you could get similar amount of content in $10 DLC is a bit too much. DLC that costs $10 usually gives you like an armour or so.

Dark Souls 2: Scholar of The First Sin, 20€ and I spent over 200+ hours with the content it gave me.

Amineo.8951:

rotten.9753:

I like bashing Anet but saying you could get similar amount of content in $10 DLC is a bit too much. DLC that costs $10 usually gives you like an armour or so.

Dark Souls 2: Scholar of The First Sin, 20€ and I spent over 200+ hours with the content it gave me.

Lets be fair here, that DLC is actually 3 DLC’s, each costing 10$. Not really a fair comparison.

Haiki.9178:

I’m boycotting HoT for now.

All by yourself? Astounding.

I know that some definitions of “boycott” can imply just one person deciding not to buy, but really in general it’s a concerted, organized effort by a large group of consumers. Probably because one person militantly refusing to buy a thing has no effect on the business if lots more people do readily purchase it.

So you’re electing not to purchase, for now. Good. That’s likely a sensible decision on your part, as you won’t buy until you’re sure you won’t regret the expense. Buyer’s remorse can lead to some ugly posts … but if you’re not part of a big group pointedly not buying due to dissatisfaction with the company making the product, you’re really not boycotting.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Straylight.7529:

Just because they want to attract new people doesn’t mean the GW2 playerbase is declining. Even WoW has been trying to attract new people continuously during its 12 year long lifespan.

Oh puh-leaze. Is Warcraft now free-to-play? Have they gotten rid of their subscription base format? No? Then kindly take that nonsense elsewhere.

It ain’t flying.

Going F2P isn’t the only way to attract more players, fyi.

I’ve not got it yet OP, but that’s more to do with wanting to know what I’m paying for.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Straylight.7529:

Just because they want to attract new people doesn’t mean the GW2 playerbase is declining. Even WoW has been trying to attract new people continuously during its 12 year long lifespan.

Oh puh-leaze. Is Warcraft now free-to-play? Have they gotten rid of their subscription base format? No? Then kindly take that nonsense elsewhere.

It ain’t flying.

Just because they want to attract new people doesn’t mean the GW2 playerbase is declining. Even a successful product is eager to get more customers.

You can’t dismiss me with insults by the way. Your insults only aim to cover up your lack of arguments.

Phy.2913:

Amineo.8951:

rotten.9753:

I like bashing Anet but saying you could get similar amount of content in $10 DLC is a bit too much. DLC that costs $10 usually gives you like an armour or so.

Dark Souls 2: Scholar of The First Sin, 20€ and I spent over 200+ hours with the content it gave me.

Lets be fair here, that DLC is actually 3 DLC’s, each costing 10$. Not really a fair comparison.

Dark Souls 2 sucks also.

Phy.2913:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Straylight.7529:

Just because they want to attract new people doesn’t mean the GW2 playerbase is declining. Even WoW has been trying to attract new people continuously during its 12 year long lifespan.

Oh puh-leaze. Is Warcraft now free-to-play? Have they gotten rid of their subscription base format? No? Then kindly take that nonsense elsewhere.

It ain’t flying.

Going F2P isn’t the only way to attract more players, fyi.

There are 4 real ways to attract more players 1. New content 2. Complete revamp 3. F2P 4. Word of mouth. ArenaNet has tried the new content route and even with the expansion it seems this was not enough. ArenaNet can barely develop on what they have in a timely/thoughtful manner let alone do a complete revamp, FFXIV pulled it off though and it’s now #2 and climbing. F2P is clearly what ArenaNet is trying next. Word of mouth for GW2 has been bad due to a multitude of reasons for a long while. ArenaNet being so tight lipped, poor development cycle, glacial class balance, and amateur feature implementation top the list.

So yes, F2P isn’t the only way, but it is certainly the only way that GW2 is going to gain players. Maybe ArenaNet will turn things around and start showing some competent design work, given the last 3 years though…

There was some push back on reddit about HoT. I understand it’s the largest discussion in the GW2 sub-reddit. Biggest complaints were no character slot and just not enough content to justify the cost.

Test.8734:

Aramil.9503:

Is it true that people are boycotting this because it is overpriced?

No, people are simply not buying because it’s overpriced.

I think you mean some people aren’t willing to shell out US$50 for an expansion. There’s no objective way to determine if something is “overpriced” — by definition, if an item sells in the marketplace, it’s not overpriced and HoT is selling.

Test.8734:

Really, it’s DLC-worth content. The kind of thing people would pay at most $10 for.

That’s because your entire assessment rests on how many of this, how many of that. I don’t care about how many skins or zones. I care about whether the expansion will add 100s of hours of entertainment for me. And the only metrics we have available are how well they have done with other games, campaigns, and expacs. Their track record on that is stellar: GW1: popular and entertaining for 100s of hours. GW1 x3 campaigns individually entertaining for 100s of hours. GW1 single expac, ditto. GW2 even more so.

Using those metrics, the going rate of US$50 for expac is worth it to me.

Test.8734:

Don’t buy it right now. Wait, and, considering how starved for money ArenaNet is (free to play game, rushing to release an obviously unfinished “expansion”), they will reduce the price as soon as the poor reviews start pouring in.

There’s almost no chance they will reduce the price in the first 3 months after launch, so if you wait, you’ll miss the excitement of joining all the veterans (and new players) tackling the new content. After that intense period, there’s a very good chance that, regardless of reviews, the game will be discounted by retailers and by ANet — that’s because every gaming firm does that, in order to keep the peak sales period running a bit longer and thus being able to claim “x copies” sold, which helps sell more games down the road.

tl;dr if you like ANet’s track record on entertainment, this is a good deal.
(and of course, if you are like “Test,” and judge a game based on how many skins or maps it has, it looks more anemic).

edit: kitten filter doesn’t think we should use “- – - ess” as a synonym for ‘judge’ because of the first three letters.

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around. I know I am not buying HoT. I can wait 4 or 5 years if I have to until the price is $10. Or when they announce the next xpac and HoT is free. I just get it for free, but who knows.

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps. I don’t care about skins. I have never care what my toons look like. I do not own a guild (I use one for extra storage). I don’t care much about legendary (takes months to make one). All these new specializations don’t change the characters too much. They just get new skills (at lest that’s how I see it). That raid seem cool, but it is not even 1 finish raid. Just half of one…

so, bottom line for me is $10 for HoT. If HoT is anything like guild war 1 add ons. I be more than happy to pay $60. Even EoTN was $40…was it $40? Too lazy to check source…lol

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Morfedel.4165:

They aren’t? That’s weird. Most of the zones I go to are always well populated. Must be me.

Yes, because the world is so populated and full, they’ve decided to offer the game for free in an attempt to tempt more people, and sales, into the game because giving it away makes oh so much sense with a robust community.

And yet there are still lots of people online. Explain that.

I think what the situation is is that they’re population GROWTH stagnated, and they are trying to jumpstart that again. But a lack of population growth is far different from saying no one is playing it.

If no one was playing it, the servers would be empty. They aren’t. Not even close.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Test.8734:

Aramil.9503:

Is it true that people are boycotting this because it is overpriced?

No, people are simply not buying because it’s overpriced.

I think you mean some people aren’t willing to shell out US$50 for an expansion. There’s no objective way to determine if something is “overpriced” — by definition, if an item sells in the marketplace, it’s not overpriced and HoT is selling.

Test.8734:

Really, it’s DLC-worth content. The kind of thing people would pay at most $10 for.

That’s because your entire assessment rests on how many of this, how many of that. I don’t care about how many skins or zones. I care about whether the expansion will add 100s of hours of entertainment for me. And the only metrics we have available are how well they have done with other games, campaigns, and expacs. Their track record on that is stellar: GW1: popular and entertaining for 100s of hours. GW1 x3 campaigns individually entertaining for 100s of hours. GW1 single expac, ditto. GW2 even more so.

Using those metrics, the going rate of US$50 for expac is worth it to me.

Test.8734:

Don’t buy it right now. Wait, and, considering how starved for money ArenaNet is (free to play game, rushing to release an obviously unfinished “expansion”), they will reduce the price as soon as the poor reviews start pouring in.

There’s almost no chance they will reduce the price in the first 3 months after launch, so if you wait, you’ll miss the excitement of joining all the veterans (and new players) tackling the new content. After that intense period, there’s a very good chance that, regardless of reviews, the game will be discounted by retailers and by ANet — that’s because every gaming firm does that, in order to keep the peak sales period running a bit longer and thus being able to claim “x copies” sold, which helps sell more games down the road.

tl;dr if you like ANet’s track record on entertainment, this is a good deal.
(and of course, if you are like “Test,” and judge a game based on how many skins or maps it has, it looks more anemic).

edit: kitten filter doesn’t think we should use “- – - ess” as a synonym for ‘judge’ because of the first three letters.

You can buy it right now £10 off the sticker price. It will go down, maybe Anet won’t be the ones doing it but other companies will want to shift it.

Aramil.9503:

Is it true that people are boycotting this because it is overpriced? I’ve got like 20 friends who all play and none of them are preordering. In fact, when I suggested that I was going to preorder they all told me not to and that there was a huge boycott on this game. Can somebody tell me if it’s just my friends or if this is a game-wide occurence?

There are plenty who aren’t buying HoT many who’ve quit altogether and many who want to wait for it to go on sale or some like myself who if they buy will do so from a retailer receive a DVD and a box to ensure Anet make the least amount on my possible purchase.

As for an official boycott who knows, most simply move on to another game without looking back.

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around.

How do you define a lot. I’ve been playing since BWE1 of the core game, 3 years ago, and I don’t know even one “angry veteran” who’s left because of this. Not one. And I know a lot of people.

Your “lot of angry veterans” is very subjective methinks. I also watch map chat and while I do see a few complaints about the f2p thing, not one that decided they were leaving.

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around. I know I am not buying HoT. I can wait 4 or 5 years if I have to until the price is $10. Or when they announce the next xpac and HoT is free. I just get it for free, but who knows.

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps. I don’t care about skins. I have never care what my toons look like. I do not own a guild (I use one for extra storage). I don’t care much about legendary (takes months to make one). All these new specializations don’t change the characters too much. They just get new skills (at lest that’s how I see it). That raid seem cool, but it is not even 1 finish raid. Just half of one…

so, bottom line for me is $10 for HoT. If HoT is anything like guild war 1 add ons. I be more than happy to pay $60. Even EoTN was $40…was it $40? Too lazy to check source…lol

Calling it 4 maps really is misleading. Since each map has 3 biomes, it is effectively 12 maps. Maps in the core game really are just 1 biomes, with an occasional jaunt underground. Plus no doubt they will most likely add more maps over time.
HoT is $49.99 right now, when pre-purchasing you get an extra character slot, which effectively makes the expansion $39.99 for 12 maps, mastery system, another class, elite specializations, and more.

Gilgamesh.1025:

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps.

It’s not really the number of the maps that matters but rather how much content and replayability they offer. Everything we’ve seen so far in the beta points towards those new maps being densely filled with content. Even the part of the first map which was accessible during the beta puts the old vanilla maps to shame when it comes to volume of exploration.

You can dislike the expansion for other reasons, sure, but basing your decision whether you’re going to buy it or not on the number of maps would be an unreasonable thing to do.

Straylight.7529:

Gilgamesh.1025:

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps.

It’s not really the number of the maps that matters but rather how much content and replayability they offer. Everything we’ve seen so far in the beta points towards those new maps being densely filled with content. Even the part of the first map which was accessible during the beta puts the old vanilla maps to shame when it comes to volume of exploration.

You can dislike the expansion for other reasons, sure, but basing your decision whether you’re going to buy it or not on the number of maps would be an unreasonable thing to do.

And thats a big point a lot of the naysayers are missing. A lot of the maps in traditional gw2 are now fairly empty with a handful of obvious exceptions.

They have said that with these maps they are working hard at adding significant replay value that most of the current maps are missing. If they succeed, the entire “only four maps” complaints will be empty and meaningless.

eisberg.2379:

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around. I know I am not buying HoT. I can wait 4 or 5 years if I have to until the price is $10. Or when they announce the next xpac and HoT is free. I just get it for free, but who knows.

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps. I don’t care about skins. I have never care what my toons look like. I do not own a guild (I use one for extra storage). I don’t care much about legendary (takes months to make one). All these new specializations don’t change the characters too much. They just get new skills (at lest that’s how I see it). That raid seem cool, but it is not even 1 finish raid. Just half of one…

so, bottom line for me is $10 for HoT. If HoT is anything like guild war 1 add ons. I be more than happy to pay $60. Even EoTN was $40…was it $40? Too lazy to check source…lol

Calling it 4 maps really is misleading. Since each map has 3 biomes, it is effectively 12 maps. Maps in the core game really are just 1 biomes, with an occasional jaunt underground. Plus no doubt they will most likely add more maps over time.
HoT is $49.99 right now, when pre-purchasing you get an extra character slot, which effectively makes the expansion $39.99 for 12 maps, mastery system, another class, elite specializations, and more.

Be aware though that one of their people said not all 4 maps will have 3 biomes. But still, you have a good point.

Morfedel.4165:

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around.

How do you define a lot. I’ve been playing since BWE1 of the core game, 3 years ago, and I don’t know even one “angry veteran” who’s left because of this. Not one. And I know a lot of people.

Your “lot of angry veterans” is very subjective methinks. I also watch map chat and while I do see a few complaints about the f2p thing, not one that decided they were leaving.

I been playing guild wars since way back guild wars 1 days. Early start and everything. I use the word “a lot” because I don’t want to sit there and count how many there really is in my head. My definition of “a lot” is any number that is more than 10+. I see that as “a lot.”

I also did not say anything about f2p. I think f2p is a good thing for this game. Bring in new players and such. Most of my friends left due to HoT. They are long gone already when HoT was “hot topic”…still is, I am sure. I don’t think anyone of my guild wars friend that is gone already know anything about this f2p thing. I don’t think they care anymore.

Gilgamesh.1025:

Morfedel.4165:

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around.

How do you define a lot. I’ve been playing since BWE1 of the core game, 3 years ago, and I don’t know even one “angry veteran” who’s left because of this. Not one. And I know a lot of people.

Your “lot of angry veterans” is very subjective methinks. I also watch map chat and while I do see a few complaints about the f2p thing, not one that decided they were leaving.

I been playing guild wars since way back guild wars 1 days. Early start and everything. I use the word “a lot” because I don’t want to sit there and count how many there really is in my head. My definition of “a lot” is any number that is more than 10+. I see that as “a lot.”

I also did not say anything about f2p. I think f2p is a good thing for this game. Bring in new players and such. Most of my friends left due to HoT. They are long gone already when HoT was “hot topic”…still is, I am sure. I don’t think anyone of my guild wars friend that is gone already know anything about this f2p thing. I don’t think they care anymore.

Well then, we have had completely different experiences.

Straylight.7529:

Gilgamesh.1025:

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps.

It’s not really the number of the maps that matters but rather how much content and replayability they offer. Everything we’ve seen so far in the beta points towards those new maps being densely filled with content. Even the part of the first map which was accessible during the beta puts the old vanilla maps to shame when it comes to volume of exploration.

You can dislike the expansion for other reasons, sure, but basing your decision whether you’re going to buy it or not on the number of maps would be an unreasonable thing to do.

you are right, number of maps really isn’t the defending factor. But still, in my head, there is this voice telling me, that is still only 4 maps and it is going to cost me $60 dollars. Is it really worth it? I will wait. Who knows, when the review is out and everyone is talking about how fun and awesome and best of the best of these 4 maps really is. I will pay that $60 dollars. But, my mind is still set at $10 right now.

Gilgamesh.1025:

you are right, number of maps really isn’t the defending factor. But still, in my head, there is this voice telling me, that is still only 4 maps and it is going to cost me $60 dollars. Is it really worth it? I will wait. Who knows, when the review is out and everyone is talking about how fun and awesome and best of the best of these 4 maps really is. I will pay that $60 dollars. But, my mind is still set at $10 right now.

Actually I have the same voice in my head. And at least in my case I believe it’s coming from my experience with other MMO’s. When I heard " x Maps" in WoW than I knew exactly how much content/volume of exploration I was facing while waiting for one of their expansions to release. And the number one reason for that was the fact that Blizzard never increased their content per map ratio. Even the new maps of their most recent expansion don’t offer more content than in any other expansion they released in the past 10 years. You’ll quest through those new maps just as fast as the old ones.

Now with HoT many of us are faced with an huge increase in the volume of content per map. Vanilla maps feel laughable in comparison. In Gendarran Fields starting from the west you fight some risen, than you help some farmers with their pirate problems while unlocking a vista then you defend the estate of an asura and oops, you already reached the other side of the map.

Buying something because you don’t think it’s worth the price isn’t a boycott. It’s just common sense.

Aramil.9503:

Is it true that people are boycotting this because it is overpriced? I’ve got like 20 friends who all play and none of them are preordering. In fact, when I suggested that I was going to preorder they all told me not to and that there was a huge boycott on this game. Can somebody tell me if it’s just my friends or if this is a game-wide occurence?

20 friends and none of them pre-ordered? Wow, I hope I don’t have friends like that.

I boycotted the boycott by buying HOT. No regrets.

Well don’t know anything about boycott but I won’t pay for this overpriced DLC and won’t purchase any gems because I’m sure when you will start to deal with f2p players’ hostile, troll wannabe or careless attitude, you’ll see your “beloved, friendly” community will be much more conservative and discriminating. Check other f2p games, see attitude towarda russians or turks in dota 2.

Morfedel.4165:

eisberg.2379:

Gilgamesh.1025:

a lot of angry veterans have already left. Some are still around. I know I am not buying HoT. I can wait 4 or 5 years if I have to until the price is $10. Or when they announce the next xpac and HoT is free. I just get it for free, but who knows.

as far as I know, I am only into this game due to PvE and I will not pay $60 for 4 maps. I don’t care about skins. I have never care what my toons look like. I do not own a guild (I use one for extra storage). I don’t care much about legendary (takes months to make one). All these new specializations don’t change the characters too much. They just get new skills (at lest that’s how I see it). That raid seem cool, but it is not even 1 finish raid. Just half of one…

so, bottom line for me is $10 for HoT. If HoT is anything like guild war 1 add ons. I be more than happy to pay $60. Even EoTN was $40…was it $40? Too lazy to check source…lol

Calling it 4 maps really is misleading. Since each map has 3 biomes, it is effectively 12 maps. Maps in the core game really are just 1 biomes, with an occasional jaunt underground. Plus no doubt they will most likely add more maps over time.
HoT is $49.99 right now, when pre-purchasing you get an extra character slot, which effectively makes the expansion $39.99 for 12 maps, mastery system, another class, elite specializations, and more.

Be aware though that one of their people said not all 4 maps will have 3 biomes. But still, you have a good point.

True however we are also forgetting there is night / day cycle. Map may remain the same but events change potentially further doubling the content in those maps.