Guild Wars 2

I
TOLD
YOU
SO!

And I’m not the only one, those of use who knew this would blew up sat there and watched that stream and confirmed it first hand how much it ruins diversity.

Like 2% of the whole overhaul for each profession was justified while the other 98% was a complete funeral service to a vast majority of builds mine and many others just got buried in an unwanted grave.

Example they are over forcing theirs to focus on dodging a ton and or stealing for an unwanted amount of extra stealth while mesmers are being shoehorned into being ranged damage dealers who HAVE TO SHATTER regardless of preference unless they roll a hard phantasm build and took away another vital trait from a vast majority of mesmer builds AGAIN

engis already had a blast problem for might stack and invis but now they gonna unload gatling style with it while guards are gonna become heavy mobile tanks more so then usual.

I could go on but I’m not going to, by the time they got past mesmer I felt like I was gonna puke at how bad this was and even worse its gonna hit us before hot does.

So yes big fat I told you so’s all around because a countless many of us knew this 3 line lock was a bad idea.

Peace out, and RIP build originality you will be missed.

You see what you want to see.

I am watching the stream and became so ready for some diveristy.

And here I am with a smile on my face about the whole thing. Strange how terrible it is while making me so happy…

my sadness is that I’m unable to watch. Results so far seem really really interesting and got my theorycraft runnin’

Exactly, and being mainly an Engi/guard, not gonna lie, reading the stuff left me feeling a little tingly. I feel like someone at ANet loves me or something.

Im loving the changes and i think its gonna be the opposite of what u say … atleast for thief and guardian

Jerus.4350:

Exactly, and being mainly an Engi/guard, not gonna lie, reading the stuff left me feeling a little tingly. I feel like someone at ANet loves me or something.

On that, do you feel better about the valor tree now, especially since stats have been desynced?

From what i did watch, sounds like im going to love it!

Trait rework-merges look good at first blush. I’ve got some theory crafting to do as they’ve requested. They’ve specifically asked if we have playstyles/builds lost in the conversion. I need to figure out how some of my preferred ‘odd-ball’ builds line up with the new paradigm and what can be done to get the last missing pieces into places that will work with the 3-lines system.

Gotta say I specifically like Battle presence moving to Virtues. That’s some one stop shopping for me.

Should be an interesting week .

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

Yup, I was just going to make a post praising Anet for making bold changes. They don’t always work out but they have the balls to at least try and find out what works and doesn’t.

Compare the game now to what it was when it first came out and the game is going in the right direction.

they actually bring up a lot of diversity if you ask me

My only sadness is they didn’t answer the AMA questions everyone submitted except for when it’s coming (pre-HoT) and what the skill scrolls will do (turn into wallet currency for the Forge). I guess they got tired after they ran long and gave up on that part.

I would very much like them to address the AMA thread questions in text now.

I lost what is possibly my favorite build in the whole game today, the only build I have that is genuinely viable and fun to play in PvP as well as usable in any portion of PvE.

And I still don’t agree with you.

The majority of my other builds are either the same, slightly changed, or even improved. The system isn’t perfect and by the time these changes hit, somebody somewhere is going to have lost a build, no matter how much the developers try to prevent it. I’m really sad it is mine and still do not agree with the change which is going to cost me it, but the direction of these changes is healthy for game in almost every way, including diversity.

I found out my EXACT build isn’t possible any more and I’m excited for these changes to be finalized and implemented so that I can put together something new and exciting for me.

Gale did we watch the same stream cause my theif is bada ba ba ba lovin it.

I do regret a small loss of granularity (for my guardian I can no longer have both healing marks and pure of voice, which is helpful sometimes), but in every tree I’ve looked at for my characters, I haven’t seen a single ‘kitten none of these are good for me!’ moment.

I see that guardians and thieves are responding positively. How about necs, rangers and mesmers? They still seem to still be pve trash tier, continuing the status quo.

I’m not an expert, but going through the profession subs, players of these three classess seem to not have much hope of joining the pve meta after spending an eternity in the desert.

waiting on the trees to be posted somewhere, missed hte stream ><

You have to understand that the natural response of every class forum is to downplay and complain. Wouldn’t expect too much from it ><

Considering that about 60% of the traits look solid during the work in progress stage (not even in beta yet), I’m pretty happy with what turned out. Instead of builds being a trait or two different from the meta we’ll have builds that have 4-6 different traits from the meta.

I honestly think you’re complaining just to gain attention gale.

I’ve only looked at 4 of the professions so far, but I see plenty of, “WTK would I want in that slot?!?!?” questions. The changes, so far, seem designed to funnel me even more into choices I don’t want. It feels to me similar to the feeling I get when I look at weapons — like ANet is deciding what my play-style should be. While some of that is inevitable, the traits so far look like a move away from freedom and towards shackles.

They’ve also eliminated some of the (admittedly) quirky synergies I grew to like. My guardian 1-hand sword build got killed, specifically. Not sure if my engineer build is dead, as the engi traits were not all that fleshed out on Dulfy.

I’m not upset, just not excited. I was hoping trait revamps would revitalize my interest in playing, but so far no joy. Oh, well.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’ve only looked at 4 of the professions so far, but I see plenty of, “WTK would I want in that slot?!?!?” questions. The changes, so far, seem designed to funnel me even more into choices I don’t want. It feels to me similar to the feeling I get when I look at weapons — like ANet is deciding what my play-style should be. While some of that is inevitable, the traits so far look like a move away from freedom and towards shackles.

They’ve also eliminated some of the (admittedly) quirky synergies I grew to like. My guardian 1-hand sword build got killed, specifically. Not sure if my engineer build is dead, as the engi traits were not all that fleshed out on Dulfy.

I’m not upset, just not excited. I was hoping trait revamps would revitalize my interest in playing, but so far no joy. Oh, well.

They’ve taken away tons of bad traits that were either useless or so good that they felt needed (blasting staff). I see this as a positive.

As a neco main I’m really bummed over changes (or lack of). That being said we havent even had a chance to play with the new traits yet, nor have we seen any elite specializations. We’re not even in beta yet either. Theres a lot of time between now and release and so I’m remaining cautiously optimistic and reserving judgement till then.

Galeskyring.9617:

Like 2% of the whole overhaul for each profession was justified while the other 98% was a complete funeral service to a vast majority of builds mine and many others just got buried in an unwanted grave.

I have no clue how you even arrived at these numbers. If you want to enlighten us all I’m sure we’re all listening.

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

Seconded. I see diversity opening up many new possibilities.

Since they specifically asked us to check if some of our favorite builds are no longer possible, I’m gonna do some character by character studies.

So far my thief-tank built on an outdated meta build seems to be in good shape other than losing a situational source of Regeneration.

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

This.

I think its possible to see diversity being slaughtered while the number of desiriable traits increases.

Things like going back and properly tagging elite skills to be part of existing utility lines like tricks or shouts is independent of cutting the number of adept and master traits in half and locking the tiers.

There looks to be significant net improvement (and I’m glad), but don’t think there weren’t some losses along the way.

Fortunately we’ve been invited to identify the specific loses that bug us. If you’re losing a build you enjoy, its time to outline how that build works and what about the new system is crippling it. They gave us (most) of the traits. We’re not working in a vacuum anymore .

Nike.2631:

Fortunately we’ve been invited to identify the specific loses that bug us. If you’re losing a build you enjoy, its time to outline how that build works and what about the new system is crippling it. They gave us (most) of the traits. We’re not working in a vacuum anymore .

Though I’m heavily paraphrasing:

Jon Peters (I think it was he who said this):

We’re trying to preserve as many builds as possible but give more options in general. If the idea behind your build (not the exact build, but the driving concept behind it) is completely removed or gone, let us know and we’ll see where or how it can fit back in.

So yeah. I’m the last person on this earth who should ever be called an ‘optimist’ but today seemed like a strong step to actually communicating with us (the community/audience/customers/label of your choice).

It seems you did want to say it, but it fell on mostly disagreeing ears.

I think the new Trait system and Traits look very promising. I can’t wait until we get it/them.

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

For those of us who learn by doing and not by videos, not by the game “showing” us, this is devastating.

For all those with literal brain damage – this game was hard enough – with the new changes you add a level of confusion and more that we did not need at all.

Wow, a whole one more elite that I have to choose over another.

Wow, a traiting system that is more than confusing, it’s harder to get through and harder to change from if you go down the wrong one??

Wow, “mats” for “tomes” and “skill points” that we sweated our hearts and souls out to get and keep for future use????

Wow, not making impossible mats available (*ahem ask anyone making a legendary how to get lodestones – any lodestones! and several other mats that are just about impossible – grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.)

Wow, not listening to players when you ask for our opinions and then throwing the lot of us under a literal bus.

Galeskyring.9617:

I
TOLD
YOU
SO!

And I’m not the only one, those of use who knew this would blew up sat there and watched that stream and confirmed it first hand how much it ruins diversity.

Like 2% of the whole overhaul for each profession was justified while the other 98% was a complete funeral service to a vast majority of builds mine and many others just got buried in an unwanted grave.

Example they are over forcing theirs to focus on dodging a ton and or stealing for an unwanted amount of extra stealth while mesmers are being shoehorned into being ranged damage dealers who HAVE TO SHATTER regardless of preference unless they roll a hard phantasm build and took away another vital trait from a vast majority of mesmer builds AGAIN

engis already had a blast problem for might stack and invis but now they gonna unload gatling style with it while guards are gonna become heavy mobile tanks more so then usual.

I could go on but I’m not going to, by the time they got past mesmer I felt like I was gonna puke at how bad this was and even worse its gonna hit us before hot does.

So yes big fat I told you so’s all around because a countless many of us knew this 3 line lock was a bad idea.

Peace out, and RIP build originality you will be missed.

atheria.2837:

For those of us who learn by doing and not by videos, not by the game “showing” us, this is devastating.

For all those with literal brain damage – this game was hard enough – with the new changes you add a level of confusion and more that we did not need at all.

Wow, a whole one more elite that I have to choose over another.

Wow, a traiting system that is more than confusing, it’s harder to get through and harder to change from if you go down the wrong one??

Wow, “mats” for “tomes” and “skill points” that we sweated our hearts and souls out to get and keep for future use????

Wow, not making impossible mats available (*ahem ask anyone making a legendary how to get lodestones – any lodestones! and several other mats that are just about impossible – grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.)

Wow, not listening to players when you ask for our opinions and then throwing the lot of us under a literal bus.

I honestly have no idea what you are getting at. Is this sarcasm? I hope it’s sarcasm. Even so, your first statement just makes no sense no matter how much I read it. I have no idea how this is ‘devastating’.

I’m not seeing the same thing as the OP. I saw ANet remove a lot of combinations that didn’t have any use (except by people being creative just for the sake of being creative), make it a lot easier to focus on certain types of skills with helpful trait support, and avoid having to split trait lines for stats and/or just the one trait.

I think too many of us are looking for how to maintain our current builds, instead of thinking towards what sort of new types of builds will we have access to. Keep in mind we’re going to see the equivalent of 10 new professions (revenant + 9 elite speicalizations). I think we’ll see folks starting to do interesting things with their gaming skills + various build combinations.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not seeing the same thing as the OP. I saw ANet remove a lot of combinations that didn’t have any use (except by people being creative just for the sake of being creative), make it a lot easier to focus on certain types of skills with helpful trait support, and avoid having to split trait lines for stats and/or just the one trait.

I think too many of us are looking for how to maintain our current builds, instead of thinking towards what sort of new types of builds will we have access to. Keep in mind we’re going to see the equivalent of 10 new professions (revenant + 9 elite speicalizations). I think we’ll see folks starting to do interesting things with their gaming skills + various build combinations.

^ This I agree with.
_____________

To summerise the OP thread(s):
Yes, it is understandable. You’ve invested your time on the build that you have purposely crafted and built. Spent gold on armour, weapons, rune and sigils that complement your build and playstyle. But rather than out right saying that you’ve felt cheated out of your build. You push it under the “lack of diversity”. Will tell you straight, it doesn’t wash. You say countless??, but not actually back that statement up. Forum users, surprisingly took this news fairly well, knowing that “some” of their builds are no longer viable.
Yes some builds will close, but new ones will open up.

Yeah, if we’re going by a “you told me so”, you might have told me, but you were wrong… o.O This opens up a LOT of brand NEW builds that werent evven possible before, and increases the decision making between tiers, and in the long run will be easier to balance than a mess of traits. I’m happy, except that I think thief and Engineer will rule the world in sPVP.

Coldtart.4785:

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

power is not build diversity. Those are two separate things.

I feel like overall many classes got buffed.

However its also true that there looks like there will very little diversity. for most of the jobs i play regularly there will be like 1 or 2 builds everyone will be using, because the other ones are mostly illogical.

power up, diversity down.

i think the mileage varies from class to class though

phys.7689:

Coldtart.4785:

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

power is not build diversity. Those are two separate things.

I feel like overall many classes got buffed.

However its also true that there looks like there will very little diversity. for most of the jobs i play regularly there will be like 1 or 2 builds everyone will be using, because the other ones are mostly illogical.

power up, diversity down.

i think the mileage varies from class to class though

Only thing is that what you say is mostly already true anyways. There aren’t many accepted builds for most game styles as it is.

Funny. The only thing I saw were mostly excellent traits that actually left me debating between choices in each major slot and between lines.

Oh, but the sky is falling. The sky is falling.

phys.7689:

Coldtart.4785:

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

power is not build diversity. Those are two separate things.

I feel like overall many classes got buffed.

However its also true that there looks like there will very little diversity. for most of the jobs i play regularly there will be like 1 or 2 builds everyone will be using, because the other ones are mostly illogical.

power up, diversity down.

i think the mileage varies from class to class though

You just can’t get enough of being wrong, can you? To give an obvious example; right now there is exactly one correct trait point allocation for ele in pvp: 00266. If you aren’t using that you are simply using ele wrong. Under the new system it appears as though it would be reasonable to run a similar build using water and arcane but with a choice of fire, air or earth all being viable as the third spec. That’s 3 valid choices where before there was only 1.

Coldtart.4785:

phys.7689:

Coldtart.4785:

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

power is not build diversity. Those are two separate things.

I feel like overall many classes got buffed.

However its also true that there looks like there will very little diversity. for most of the jobs i play regularly there will be like 1 or 2 builds everyone will be using, because the other ones are mostly illogical.

power up, diversity down.

i think the mileage varies from class to class though

You just can’t get enough of being wrong, can you? To give an obvious example; right now there is exactly one correct trait point allocation for ele in pvp: 00266. If you aren’t using that you are simply using ele wrong. Under the new system it appears as though it would be reasonable to run a similar build using water and arcane but with a choice of fire, air or earth all being viable as the third spec. That’s 3 valid choices where before there was only 1.

i dont play ele, but others dont seem to agree that there was one good ele build, and say a few builds on ele maybe on the way out.
perhaps its a pvp perscpective thing

I LOVE running into people in PvP who believe there is only one right build for a profession.

Coldtart.4785:

phys.7689:

Coldtart.4785:

How did you watch as most of the currently useless traitlines got massively buffed into possible overpoweredness and conclude that build diversity has been reduced?

If your build got nerfed then your build was probably bad.

power is not build diversity. Those are two separate things.

I feel like overall many classes got buffed.

However its also true that there looks like there will very little diversity. for most of the jobs i play regularly there will be like 1 or 2 builds everyone will be using, because the other ones are mostly illogical.

power up, diversity down.

i think the mileage varies from class to class though

You just can’t get enough of being wrong, can you? To give an obvious example; right now there is exactly one correct trait point allocation for ele in pvp: 00266. If you aren’t using that you are simply using ele wrong. Under the new system it appears as though it would be reasonable to run a similar build using water and arcane but with a choice of fire, air or earth all being viable as the third spec. That’s 3 valid choices where before there was only 1.

I’d say we’re getting a lot more than that. I’m not seeing the new Arcane as being mandatory at all. And with the new Earth line looking…. actually quite viable, we could well see it as the crux of quite a few builds.

Of course, even the first Elite Specializations could allow this sytem to completely blow the current one out of the water.

i think this is mostly a very good change to the trait system. most useless/ underpowered traits were either removed or folding into baseline skills or combined w/ other traits. being able to spec fully into 3 traits lines is quite nice (i very rarely spec into more than 3 lines….and most of that is irrelevant due to the combining of traits)….especially without the burden of attributes. too early to tell if we’ll have more or less viable builds….

only thing i don’t like is being locked into one trait in each tier (can’t use your master slot to spec a second adept trait, or use the GM slot for a 2nd master trait), though i haven’t studied the trait lines well enough to see if it will really matter.

My only problem so far is something that has been already adressed, but it remains my main problem: These changes reduce build flexibility, and quite drastically so.
No more option to use 2 adept or master tier traits if you want to. No more builds that use more than 3 traitlines.
These do cut down on the options availlable to players.

Admittedly however, I don’t see any really applicable fix for those with the new system. At least not for the second problem. So giving constructive criticism is sadly not really an option for me.

But I’m trying not to be overly negative. I’ll learn to adapt like anybody else. And on the plus side, a lot of the changes inside the traitlines look promising.

As with most changes, we get one part uppers, one part downers and one part candy.

They said they did this to add build diversity (I think this was achieved by removing stats from the trait lines), but they also said this would help to balance things (despite giving thieves access to x2 consume plasma – what!!).

Vague Memory.2817:

They said they did this to add build diversity (I think this was achieved by removing stats from the trait lines), but they also said this would help to balance things (despite giving thieves access to x2 consume plasma – what!!).

its not really about build diversity
its more about simplification of the trait system and unification of builds.

im guessing in the long run, diversity will have to come mostly from elite specs, hope they can pump them out faster than 1 per expansion.

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

First reply = best reply.

I can see a lot of potential – and more useful diversity than at present. Depending how things are tweaked and finalised it could be fantastic.

Vague Memory.2817:

They said they did this to add build diversity (I think this was achieved by removing stats from the trait lines), but they also said this would help to balance things (despite giving thieves access to x2 consume plasma – what!!).

They also said that the stolen abilities will be reworked… consume plasma might not end up like it is now man

Curunen.8729:

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

First reply = best reply.

I can see a lot of potential – and more useful diversity than at present. Depending how things are tweaked and finalised it could be fantastic.

Or we could have all of the good changes, and the current flexibility if we could still partially invest in a traitline/spec and continue being able to sacrifice a major trait for a second adept.

Useful diversity? Useful? To whom?

Some folks don’t care if one of the ‘new’ builds hugs corners better, or some other ‘new’ build can go from 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds. They’d rather drive the one they customized themselves from parts they scrounged from the junk heap out back. So what if it gets poor gas mileage and the windshield wipers don’t work. Is this game some sort of race? Is the EPA running Anet? The point being, these individuals paid for the game just like everybody else. Their money is just as (insert appropriate color here) as anyone else’s. Why are they the ones whose vehicles are being crushed into neat, easily stackable squares?

“Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black.” ~ Henry Ford.

Ah Anet killed us necros, hoping for alot of changes.