Guild Wars 2

Now, I hated them in the first beta, but this is not a gut reaction, this is after fighting almost every enemy in the game, beating the final boss, etc. I just really hate the Modrem Snipers and would like to see them changed. The problem is that they do way too much and way too well.

1. The ground line of death. Stand on this for more than half a second and I’m on the ground. They can fire multiples of these, they seem to have a much larger hitbox than they appear (at least several feet to either side), and deal ridiculous damage. To make matters worse, they sit in this damage box, making melee very difficult to safely manage.

Solutions: Remove it completely? Ok, short of that, either have the hitbox not start until ~500 range away from the Sniper, or have the Sniper auto-backflip after using it, so that there is some distance. That way melee can go to town. Or maybe just make it last way less time, like it’s only up for a few seconds (it’s, what, 10+ seconds right now?). Also, seriously, reduce that damage. That damage. . .

2. They go stealth. This alone is not a huge deal, but combined with point 1. . .

3. They can rapidfire. Seriously? They need another “could kill you if it catches you unawares” power? This alone would be plenty for their kitten nal.

Even with a dodge-heavy Staff DD I had issues avoiding all the damage that multiple Snipers can bring. They are fine solo, but are force-exponents when in large packs of other enemies. It would help if there were more counterplay to them, like if they can’t use their line-damage move until 10-15 seconds into combat, or they have to hit you a few times to build up a meter, or if any basic attack could interrupt them from doing it, or something. It should not be their bread and butter attack in its current form.

1. Circle around him. Also, you know when he shoots, by seeing him charging up. You could go back to distance to completely avoid damage or just dodge out of it. Always keep moving around if you are unsure.
2. I believe the mastery nuhoch 4 can counter this.
3. Go back to range, and spam left and right movements. That way, even without dodging, he won’t hit you.

To be honest, they were much stronger in BE2. They had a fast shot there that hit 8k+, instead of the line of death if my memory serves right.

Edit: As of mass snipers. Keep track of every one of them. Play it in a pvp style. Know their position, and adjust your position to it. And when they go stealth, they only move a little bit, and you should be prepared for a line of death

1. Circle around him. Also, you know when he shoots, by seeing him charging up. You could go back to distance to completely avoid damage or just dodge out of it. Always keep moving around if you are unsure.

I do circle around them, but still sometimes take damage due to the size of the hitbox. And sometimes being behind where he is is not an option due to terrain, or would just be otherwise inconvenient. Plus it presumes that he can be your sole focus, which isn’t always possible when there are multiple other enemies to deal with.

2. I believe the mastery nuhoch 4 can counter this.

Perhaps so, but I’m about 8+ masteries away from bothering with that one.

Edit: As of mass snipers. Keep track of every one of them. Play it in a pvp style. Know their position, and adjust your position to it. And when they go stealth, they only move a little bit, and you should be prepared for a line of death

No. I could do those things, but do not want to. I just want them to stop being jerks.

Ohoni.6057:

1. Circle around him. Also, you know when he shoots, by seeing him charging up. You could go back to distance to completely avoid damage or just dodge out of it. Always keep moving around if you are unsure.

I do circle around them, but still sometimes take damage due to the size of the hitbox. And sometimes being behind where he is is not an option due to terrain, or would just be otherwise inconvenient. Plus it presumes that he can be your sole focus, which isn’t always possible when there are multiple other enemies to deal with.

2. I believe the mastery nuhoch 4 can counter this.

Perhaps so, but I’m about 8+ masteries away from bothering with that one.

Edit: As of mass snipers. Keep track of every one of them. Play it in a pvp style. Know their position, and adjust your position to it. And when they go stealth, they only move a little bit, and you should be prepared for a line of death

No. I could do those things, but do not want to. I just want them to stop being jerks.

Use reflects/projectile denial (as a Thief/DD I know of at least 2 that you have off the top of my head). They’ll kill themselves/not kill you in short order.

I really like they, as a warrior with shield + reflect trait, is funny to see they rapid fire on stealth just to come out of stealth dead from their own arrows

Keep moving. When you see the target icon over your hear, dodge laterally. Also, get out of your 100% zerker gear. Just a little toughness goes a long way. I think snipers are a good challenge, and I enjoy killing them.

Hell my skill cap is pretty low but I’ve managed to survive these things, I make them kill priority number one, as soon as I see that line I hit dodge, circle back and focus on them exclusively.

Use reflects/projectile denial (as a Thief/DD I know of at least 2 that you have off the top of my head). They’ll kill themselves/not kill you in short order.

That protects against the rapid shot, which is seriously the least of my concerns. I can dodge most of that most of the time. It’s the ground line that’s the bigger headache. And besides, I don’t have room to slot those abilities for general content, there’s more important stuff. I don’t want to have to build around one type of mob.

Honestly, as a Revenant, I’ve barely had any real trouble with them anywhere at all.

Ohoni.6057:

Use reflects/projectile denial (as a Thief/DD I know of at least 2 that you have off the top of my head). They’ll kill themselves/not kill you in short order.

That protects against the rapid shot, which is seriously the least of my concerns. I can dodge most of that most of the time. It’s the ground line that’s the bigger headache. And besides, I don’t have room to slot those abilities for general content, there’s more important stuff. I don’t want to have to build around one type of mob.

Doesn’t the ground line also have a leading shot you can reflect? I thought it did?

And it’s not building around one mob. There are quite a few projectile based enemies (Coztic, Bristlebacks, Arrowhead (not sure if you can reflect that?), Mushrooms, Wyverns (the big ones that spit fireballs) etc.) so just thought I’d suggest something you may not have accounted for.

I only have a problem with them when there’s a ton of them. If there was an aoe indicating the line of fire, I think that would make them better.

Doesn’t the ground line also have a leading shot you can reflect? I thought it did?

I don’t think so, but then I’ve never had reflect when fighting one. I’m not sure how that would even work though, I think the ground effect is just a box of a fixed size, what would even happen if you reflect the shot halfway to them?

And it’s not building around one mob. There are quite a few projectile based enemies (Coztic, Bristlebacks, Arrowhead (not sure if you can reflect that?), Mushrooms, Wyverns (the big ones that spit fireballs) etc.) so just thought I’d suggest something you may not have accounted for.

Yes, but most of those a dodge or two will get you past anything they fire, and most reflects have CDs long enough that you can’t use them any more reliably than that. Although now that you mention it, Bristlebacks are pretty horrendous too.

Ohoni.6057:

Doesn’t the ground line also have a leading shot you can reflect? I thought it did?

I don’t think so, but then I’ve never had reflect when fighting one. I’m not sure how that would even work though, I think the ground effect is just a box of a fixed size, what would even happen if you reflect the shot halfway to them?

I’m not sure. I usually just pop skill 5 (Ranger Axe) and they leave me alone. Can someone clarify if it does?

Ohoni.6057:

And it’s not building around one mob. There are quite a few projectile based enemies (Coztic, Bristlebacks, Arrowhead (not sure if you can reflect that?), Mushrooms, Wyverns (the big ones that spit fireballs) etc.) so just thought I’d suggest something you may not have accounted for.

Yes, but most of those a dodge or two will get you past anything they fire, and most reflects have CDs long enough that you can’t use them any more reliably than that. Although now that you mention it, Bristlebacks are pretty horrendous too.

I’ll agree that the CD thing is true for Daggerstorm but Smoke Screen, whilst not a reflect, still destroys projectiles (plus a blind if you put it close enough) and doesn’t have a horrendous CD.

Also I gotta ask as it’s bugging me. Why do you never include peoples names in quotes?

Ohoni.6057:

1. Circle around him. Also, you know when he shoots, by seeing him charging up. You could go back to distance to completely avoid damage or just dodge out of it. Always keep moving around if you are unsure.

No. I could do those things, but do not want to. I just want them to stop being jerks.

lol

Also I gotta ask as it’s bugging me. Why do you never include peoples names in quotes?

I hit ctrl-c, [ quote ] ctrl-v [ / quote ], names don’t come up. There is a quote button, but it’s inefficient for multipart responses.

Don’t even dare to suggest any changes, if you are not trying to dodge than you shouldn’t be in maguuma on the first place. If you still run zerker gear, that’s your problem, you play a risky game.

Do you hate them because you want to afk? And you cant?

They are amazing and they make you dance!
They make you dodge, and not stand on their trail.
They defend them selves.
They reposition themselves.

Welcome to more advanced npc intelligence.

I can’t deny that the Mordrem Snipers fill me with the undying rage of a thousand screen-punching suns, but there is nothing about them that particularly screams bad design to me or demands any serious change. They just punch harder than their contemporaries, that’s all.

Don’t even dare to suggest any changes

No, I did suggest changes, they are in the first post.

if you are not trying to dodge than you shouldn’t be in maguuma on the first place. If you still run zerker gear, that’s your problem, you play a risky game.

Do you hate them because you want to afk? And you cant?

They are amazing and they make you dance!
They make you dodge, and not stand on their trail.
They defend them selves.
They reposition themselves.

None of this has any relevance. I feel like maybe you are addressing some other person?

It’s the ground line that’s the bigger headache. And besides, I don’t have room to slot those abilities for general content, there’s more important stuff. I don’t want to have to build around one type of mob.

It’s is safe to say, that you try to overcome the damage by sustain, and clearly try to stand on the damage and play a hero. Sorry son, you’ll have to accept the fact that you can’t stand there, period, end of story.

Snipers are the one that give quality to the content, and line damage is the only thing that i would support Anet from people trying to nerf that.

like if they can’t use their line-damage move until 10-15 seconds into combat, or they have to hit you a few times to build up a meter, or if any basic attack could interrupt them from doing it, or something. It should not be their bread and butter attack in its current form.

Are we serious right now? You literally suggest a full combat destruction and decreasing level of pve quality.

• Change your gear
• Change your build
• Get out of your comfort and start team working
• Stop being a hero that stands on the line trying to survive[any gear]

@Devs, can we just close this thread, because it’s clearly trying to downgrade the content rather then adapting to one. This post has no constructive argument, it’s a pure rent. Ty.

Ohoni.6057:

Now, I hated them in the first beta, but this is not a gut reaction, this is after fighting almost every enemy in the game, beating the final boss, etc. I just really hate the Modrem Snipers and would like to see them changed.

They hate you back .

They are definitely thrilling to fight. They require attention, spatial awareness, an understanding of anti-stealth tactics, and if you’re in a big furball they even require teamwork (sometimes in the form of your allies picking your broken body back up after you get nuked by one you missed)

Conceptually/Mechanically I enjoy them. I could see their ground strip attack damage being reduced slightly so you get maybe 1-2 more ticks to get out of it, but beyond that I approve of there being enemies you have to respect.

They should’ve given this ability to Rangers.

We all hate them , Wait for their champion forms in Dragons stand When they defend a boss

Bladedancers and snipers are most dangerous things in elite and champ forms I’ve encountered.
So much fun when u see them kill like 20 ppl with a shot

Thx for them Anet, this game needed some dangerous mobs

Heibi.4251:

They should’ve given this ability to Rangers.

So this. And i hope this will be our next specialization, so ppl stop ignoring us

Only annoying part about snipers is the knockback when you are in melee. A sniper should not hit you for 5k + knockdown at what should be their weak point.

I think Bladedancers are way worse, mainly because they do absurd damage with completely broken hitboxes (hitting people standing way behind them) all out of stealth with stun included. Smokescales are pretty ‘fun’ too.

I like them :P maybe not so much the champion versions lol – but the regular ones require you to CC, re-position and do quick bursts.

Champion is basically the same, except you need to rely on others doing CC as well!

Don’t you dare touch snipers and blade dancers! That is the kind of monsters that prevent players from mindlessly buttonmashing their ways to victory. We NEED that kind of opponents. I too hate them but I want them in that game.

I would agree that if there is going to be a ground indicator for an effect, the effect should be limited to the indicator area.

I thought the little target indicator that appears above your head was a pretty obvious give away that you should get out of the way. Must be just me.

It’s is safe to say, that you try to overcome the damage by sustain, and clearly try to stand on the damage and play a hero. Sorry son, you’ll have to accept the fact that you can’t stand there, period, end of story.

As I said in my first post, I’m playing a dodge-based DD, I don’t stand in place ANYWHERE for more than a half second at a time. The problem is that the Sniper’s fire field typically makes anywhere close to them dangerous, because it has a wider range than it shows and they are typically standing right on it. They are also often persistent, and there are often more than one of them up at once, leaving very little room to move.

I could see their ground strip attack damage being reduced slightly so you get maybe 1-2 more ticks to get out of it, but beyond that I approve of there being enemies you have to respect.

I don’t exactly have a problem with enemies you have to respect, I just think that we have to respect Snipers too much relative to their status. I mean, a “white” Sniper is essentially a Vet anything else, and a Vet Sniper is essentially a Champ, at least in terms of threat level, if not HP. I think that they should be better balanced with equivalent enemies, so that if they want to bring out a “really threatening” mob, they can do that, spawn a Vet or Champ Sniper, but the normal ones should not be a rank above most other enemies as they are.

I thought the little target indicator that appears above your head was a pretty obvious give away that you should get out of the way. Must be just me.

But the problem is, they constantly retarget, so “get out of the way” isn’t really an option either.

Really, that also would offer two ways to change this ability.

1. Make it so that once they start charging the attack, they cannot retarget, so if you move, they will miss.

2. Put one of those “countdown” UIs under you, like a circle that shrinks until it disappears, at which point they fire so that you know exactly when to dodge even in a chaotic situation.

I also think that the fire line should have shorter duration, so that if you avoid it then it won’t cause you too much more trouble, rather than sticking around for most of the fight.

The trail is not so well visible if it lags a little bit. Making it difficult to spot and thus dodge ye.

Nah, they’re fine. You can easily melee them as long as you don’t stand directly on the line, and a damage from the ground lines is perfectly reasonable for a highly visible effect.

I hate to say it as it’s pretty cliche by this point, but it really is a learn to play issue. When I first encountered snipers they ate my lunch. Then I learned their timing and mechanics. Now they’re not so hard.

I also play a DD. Snipers are the worst … but in a complicate the battlefield fun sort of way, not a change or remove from the game sort of way. I get sniped down on occasion. More often though when that gigantic target appears above my character’s head, I dodge a couple of times so quickly I move into some other issue or AOE I didn’t see at first.

Ohoni.6057:

….Modrem Snipers….
….Also, seriously, reduce that damage. That damage. . .

Its kinda in their name, what is a sniper without damage?
They are fine as they are, and quite fun to fight, as you need to take them out first!

Nah, they’re fine. You can easily melee them as long as you don’t stand directly on the line, and a damage from the ground lines is perfectly reasonable for a highly visible effect.

I hate to say it as it’s pretty cliche by this point, but it really is a learn to play issue. When I first encountered snipers they ate my lunch. Then I learned their timing and mechanics. Now they’re not so hard.

Nope.

They are just like real Rangers tbh. If you let them freecast in groups they’re a huge threat. If you go straight to their face and strafe around them they die pretty quick.

If you’re talking about the Elite/Champion versions, yeah, pretty much any Elite/Champion in HoT will one shot you it’s not just Snipers.

Honestly I’d say the only enemy that could use a bit of toning down are the mushrooms (of all things…) because they have way too much CC for a single enemy and when you kill them even regular, non-Veterans can one-shot you with that after-death explosion. It’s pretty easy to dodge but because of all the CC they have, often times you’re already out of dodges by the time they die, lol. Knockback, knockdown, launch, pull and a lot of cripple like seriously?

Besides that I like how difficult the new enemies are. It means you have to do more than stack them and spam 1 all day. Just… Them mushroom people, man…

They’re tough, which is why in every fight I always target the snipers first. But they’re a good tough. They’re not insurmountable, they’re just difficult. Honestly I find the itzel archers to be a much bigger pain than mordrem snipers. The snipers can’t teleport, so when they go stealth it’s usually not a big deal to just attack where they were.

Kal Spiro.9745:

They’re tough, which is why in every fight I always target the snipers first. But they’re a good tough. They’re not insurmountable, they’re just difficult. Honestly I find the itzel archers to be a much bigger pain than mordrem snipers. The snipers can’t teleport, so when they go stealth it’s usually not a big deal to just attack where they were.

I agree, eliminate the sniper first and the itzel archers poison clouds are really effective x.x

they are a very interesting type of enemy to encounter along with the rider type enemies.

they are not cheap and do not need to be changed imo

sadly there is no way to reflect them

This is again another l2p issue.

This is again another l2p issue.

No, it’s a “know how to play, don’t enjoy playing this way, would prefer to play a different way” issue.

Yeah, I hate them, too. And I hate that I can’t just run past all those groups of pocket dragons.

Ohoni.6057:

This is again another l2p issue.

No, it’s a “know how to play, don’t enjoy playing this way, would prefer to play a different way” issue.

Hello again Ohoni. I see you’ve found another topic to complain about. Do you think it will ever be possible for you to accept that there will be things you may not like at first, but strive to better yourself so said things aren’t as bad (even fun).

Another question: if you “know how to play,” but (I am assuming) are downed often by these snipers, how is it that I can play in full berzerker gear yet have only been downed once or twice be these guys despite throwing myself into the fray? (I play GS Ranger)

Hello again Ohoni. I see you’ve found another topic to complain about. Do you think it will ever be possible for you to accept that there will be things you may not like at first, but strive to better yourself so said things aren’t as bad (even fun).

Understand this this is not an issue of be not being able to beat Mordem Snipers. I’ve killed hundreds of them already, and my win/loss ratio is not looking good for their side. That has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. It is not that Mordrem Snipers are impossible to defeat, it is that they are ANNOYING to defeat, that they REDUCE THE FUN of the game, rather than increase it.

Now you are free to have and express a different opinion on that, but stop trying to belittle mine.

Another question: if you “know how to play,” but (I am assuming) are downed often by these snipers, how is it that I can play in full berzerker gear yet have only been downed once or twice be these guys despite throwing myself into the fray? (I play GS Ranger)

If you’ve been downed once or twice by them then we aren’t so far off in terms of performance, so I really can’t account for any differences without seeing you in action, but I imagine it comes down to difference in playstyle that are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Ohoni.6057:

Hello again Ohoni. I see you’ve found another topic to complain about. Do you think it will ever be possible for you to accept that there will be things you may not like at first, but strive to better yourself so said things aren’t as bad (even fun).

Understand this this is not an issue of be not being able to beat Mordem Snipers. I’ve killed hundreds of them already, and my win/loss ratio is not looking good for their side. That has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. It is not that Mordrem Snipers are impossible to defeat, it is that they are ANNOYING to defeat, that they REDUCE THE FUN of the game, rather than increase it.

Now you are free to have and express a different opinion on that, but stop trying to belittle mine.

Another question: if you “know how to play,” but (I am assuming) are downed often by these snipers, how is it that I can play in full berzerker gear yet have only been downed once or twice be these guys despite throwing myself into the fray? (I play GS Ranger)

If you’ve been downed once or twice by them then we aren’t so far off in terms of performance, so I really can’t account for any differences without seeing you in action, but I imagine it comes down to difference in playstyle that are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

For the record, I am not trying to belittle your opinion, but rather understand it — as the concept is so alien to me. So ok, let’s start over and see if we can get to the real root of the “problem.” (I’m sorry, when I see a chance for a pun, I can’t just leaf it).

From what I understand, you find Mordrem Snipers annoying because their line-aoe hits very hard and is hard to avoid when stacked. Is there more to it than that? (Just want to make sure I have everything before continuing)

For the record, I am not trying to belittle your opinion, but rather understand it — as the concept is so alien to me

Well then, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and I suppose your weakness might be clarity of intent. If you genuinely meant that, then in future you might not want to include lines like “Do you think it will ever be possible for you to accept that there will be things you may not like at first, but strive to better yourself so said things aren’t as bad (even fun),” which implies an unhelpful and irrelevant “learn to play better” attitude.

From what I understand, you find Mordrem Snipers annoying because their line-aoe hits very hard and is hard to avoid when stacked.

By “stacked” do you mean like in a zerg or something? I don’t know that I’ve ever been a part of a zerg that’s encountered Mordrem Snipers, I mostly fight them solo. But yeah, I find it annoying that their line attack deals so much damage, persists so long, has a hitbox that is larger than the visible indicator, and is far from the only tool in their kitten nal, for all it’s strength.

It’s not an impossible toolkit, but it is a bit unbalanced for a basic mob, and only scales up from there. It seems like the Mordrem Sniper is a full rank higher than listed in all forms. Think of it from a balance perspective, if you had to play as an enemy in a PvP match-up, with only the options available to an enemy, would you rather be a basic-level Mordrem Sniper, or, say, a basic-level Mordrem Punisher? If players were playing as mobs, there would be huge cries to nerf the Sniper class.

It’s not that I can’t deal with them, it’s that I do not enjoy having to deal with them. I would prefer their effects to be something less of a hassle. It is not that I do not understand how they work, it is not that I do not understand the tools that I have for encountering them, and it is not that I lack the manual dexterity to implement that understanding, it’s that I lack the interest in doing so and would just prefer to not do that, if at all possible.

I hope that clarifies things.

Kirnale.5914:

1. Circle around him. Also, you know when he shoots, by seeing him charging up. You could go back to distance to completely avoid damage or just dodge out of it. Always keep moving around if you are unsure.
2. I believe the mastery nuhoch 4 can counter this.
3. Go back to range, and spam left and right movements. That way, even without dodging, he won’t hit you.

To be honest, they were much stronger in BE2. They had a fast shot there that hit 8k+, instead of the line of death if my memory serves right.

Edit: As of mass snipers. Keep track of every one of them. Play it in a pvp style. Know their position, and adjust your position to it. And when they go stealth, they only move a little bit, and you should be prepared for a line of death

Nods, and then comes a cavalier or a mushroom from behind and knocks you down and you see all those nice lines converging on you, er your downed body … where is the next WP and where is the anvil …

They are rather squishy, so you can take them out relatively fast. What I like about the new zones, is that you want to take out certain enemies before others, such as the Snipers, and Tormentors. It’s also nice to see them employ a bit more tactics to combat over just facerolling your keyboard and pressing ‘F’ to loot. Reflects are great, Interrupts are great, Blocks are great, Evades are great. Please, do not request the dumbing down of every little piece of content in this game. These are not some super destructive bosses in the open world, you will learn to adapt in a short while (I know you will), and any sort of pampering on their difficulty was unnecessary. I give it a week or two, and you won’t look at them the same way at all, granted you keep fighting them every now and again.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Don’t you dare touch snipers and blade dancers! That is the kind of monsters that prevent players from mindlessly buttonmashing their ways to victory. We NEED that kind of opponents. I too hate them but I want them in that game.

Nods – I quite understand that. But maybe make “normal” ones and have more powerful veteran versions so that a solo player doing an escort mission (which noone bothers to do anyway) has a chance instead of being insta-nuked when the mob that attacks the carrier has 2 of those + 2 normal melee mobs + 1 or 2 riders/mounts.

If you concentrate on the snipers, you’ll fail the event because the others will kill the carrier. If you try to defend the carrier and leave the snipers be until you have cleared out some of the melee mobs first it’s a matter of time until you get knocked down and then – as if the snipers waited for it – you’ll get dwo of those lines while you’re stunned, knocked down … then you’re in downstate, then you’re dead. 0% of preventing that – once you’re down, you’re dead.

I agree that they provide a challenge – but I think ANet is a little too generous with their spawn rate/number and the combinations of foes they apperar with when only one or two players are present. They should have a tamer version vor those situations and keep the killer version for groups > 3.

If there’s 1-2 of them it can be an interesting and fun fight but in large chaotic battles with 3+ of them, it’s hell and not in a fun way. It can be hard to even notice their lines with all the effects from everything and one knockdown from something else is insta-death. Certainly could do with some tweaking.