Guild Wars 2

Tekey.7946:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if players could use all weapons then they’d be limited by the number of weapon types. There will always be a limitation. That said, the existing system provides numerous possibilities for builds with some being better than others.

The healing/elite skills are just one skill. Hardly build breaking.

None of what you mentioned hinders build variety to a degree that a player cannot have multiple build options. There is no reason why GW2 must do what was done in GW1 for the build system. I also seem to remember there being certain meta builds that people felt required for specific content. Sounds kind of familiar…

You’re just defending the point that it should stay as it is right now. But you can’t deny that there could be more. More variety. Is there any reason why they shouldn’t change it?

I’m not defending that it should stay how it is right now. It’s just that the issue that players are complaining about has always been present and often as a result of themselves. Even if more variety was added, there would still be a meta build and the same people here saying anything other than meta is inferior would still be saying the same then.

At least there would be “more metas”… viper/zerker predominance is quite depressing.

Valento.9852:

At least there would be “more metas”… viper/zerker predominance is quite depressing.

There really wouldn’t be more.

Tekey.7946:

You’re just defending the point that it should stay as it is right now. But you can’t deny that there could be more. More variety. Is there any reason why they shouldn’t change it?

There’s a reason, but you won’t like it. When the game was being developed, one of the stated goals was to limit player options to reduce unintended synergy and make balancing easier.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

I feel ya! I’ve been here for 4 years and people keep telling me to quit because I create and play builds with staff elementalist at the PvP scenario, and yet ArenaNet didn’t get the point of their flawed balancing strategies. But it doesn’t really matter, does it? According to some white knights here it is all the players’ fault!

Guizao.4167:

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

I feel ya! I’ve been here for 4 years and people keep telling me to quit because I create and play builds with staff elementalist at the PvP scenario, and yet ArenaNet didn’t get the point of their flawed balancing strategies. But it doesn’t really matter, does it? According to some white knights here it is all the players’ fault!

It is if you’re under the mentality that only meta builds are viable. Good job with the blanket “white knight” throw out. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re a white knight. There’s really no need for ad hominems to be honest.

Guizao.4167:

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

I feel ya! I’ve been here for 4 years and people keep telling me to quit because I create and play builds with staff elementalist at the PvP scenario, and yet ArenaNet didn’t get the point of their flawed balancing strategies. But it doesn’t really matter, does it? According to some white knights here it is all the players’ fault!

the reason staff is bad in pvp is not because its not ‘meta’ its because aoe and small group pvp does not work apart from giving a false sense of power to the less knowledgeable who think lots of aoe damage numbers means great play (while the rest of the team have to play 4v5).

That aside there are clearly issues with the lack of defined role that elementalist – fight in close range but weakest mitigation etc, at range, slow attacks etc.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

I’m curious about what you tested so far…..what class ? in which game mode ?

I only ever played GW1 and GW2 and I can tell that I’m trying builds and changing them as much in GW2 as in GW1.

In GW1 the build diversity was plain visible, in GW2 the build diversity is much more subtle. But it is real, maybe it has less range in term of number of skills but it has much depth in term of tuning.

The statement 1 class = 1 build is false. Each weapon set has a niche and finding that niche is what you need to do. Even so, there are some people that can just make things work no matter how exotic their build is. Not too long ago, I saw a video from Helseth or Sindrener talking about a p/p thief that was so good with it they had hard time killing him.

I’m starting to think, that it is the approach of diversity that is important. You can have the same build, but play it completely differently and you won’t have the feeling to play the same thing. Even more in GW2. if you take a D/P thief relying on stealth or a D/P thief relying on interrupts and blind, the same build ends up beeing two different things. Even runes to an extent, can provide drastic changes or provide confort of life.

You can’t look at diversity only from one class perspective. You have 9 professions, with different gameplays. I don’t think you tested everything in 4 month…

That comes from a guy that had a pvp character in GW1 named “Morve au nez” ( pretty much “snotty nose” ) so that I could swap from a life leeching necro to an air ele or a healing ritualist right away. There was not a single day I wouldn’t do that. So I know what build diversity means…

If they did change it, the people who like things the way they are would complain about the changes that you like. Believe me, there is not a single player on this game that is a special enough snowflake to warrant special consideration for their particular balance/gameplay complaints. Not me, nor anyone else. I’ll play GW2 while it’s fun and I’ll stop when it’s not. And I think that’s pretty good advice for anyone.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

Sadly the game wasn’t like this initially.
During its early times – in concepts and alphas the game had a much more complex attribute system. Even at launch the trait system allowed for more combinations.
The short of it is this – the more complicated building your character is the more bad players playing ineffective builds and generally being bad you’re going to have.

Anet wants people to enjoy the game easily – to pick it up and play it without needing to theorycraft ( or even think – in most cases) because that means MORE people can play it – and that means MORE money.

So the game was made easier and easier and easier until we have what we have now.

Harper.4173:

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

Sadly the game wasn’t like this initially.
During its early times – in concepts and alphas the game had a much more complex attribute system. Even at launch the trait system allowed for more combinations.
The short of it is this – the more complicated building your character is the more bad players playing ineffective builds and generally being bad you’re going to have.

Anet wants people to enjoy the game easily – to pick it up and play it without needing to theorycraft ( or even think – in most cases) because that means MORE people can play it – and that means MORE money.

So the game was made easier and easier and easier until we have what we have now.

The worst part, in my opinion, is that it would have been easier, potentially, to add optional loadable archetypes, perhaps drawn from popular effective builds, in game for those not interested in theory crafting for themselves, than to implement all of the simplification changes. This would have allowed someone who just wants to log in and smash stuff to have an easier time of it without reducing the options for those who prefer more nuanced and complex character building.

Would be good – but I think they also wanted to cut down on the amount of options for balance issues.
Much easier to balance 2-3-4 good builds for each class then balance 10 good builds for each class.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

Watch a sPvP match and try to describe what it’s happening in each frame. Try it, then return and say this game has a simple combat/skill/trait system. Then we will say you missed a 2-3 skills animations/combos in each frame.
Picture it like Starcraft (long shot but bare with me), everyone has the same UI,skills, but the complexity comes from the meta systems, and the synergy between players.

Beside the “esport” there are other positive side effects of this “simple” stiff skill system

• easier to maintain/balance game
• easier to replay / remember – you can have multiple characters there will all be the same UI skill order
• easier to explain to people (use your 2 skill to break the CC bar), instead of "long name fantasy of the skills)
• etc

Ashen.2907:

The worst part, in my opinion, is that it would have been easier, potentially, to add optional loadable archetypes, perhaps drawn from popular effective builds, in game for those not interested in theory crafting for themselves, than to implement all of the simplification changes.

Agree, people have asked for build templates and gear loadouts for a while. I’d go further and have making your own build an opt-out of the template. That would let me just swap to the builds screen and pick “pve berserker” whilst the unticked box at the bottom would say “click here to build your own if you know the risks involved in doing that” and we’d both be happy.

It could be offered as variations on the boost to 80. Buy a token that sets your level 80 up as a berserker, marauder, assassin etc. Not sure what you’d charge for it, probably gems, but I can see me doing that to save figuring out what minor trait or sigil/runes to get.

No.
15 characters long.

Coming to this very late, but really, I’ve never been one to subscribe to a meta. Metas get formed because people are lazy and uncreative. There’s maybe one or two people who first find these builds and that they work really well for them, then everyone else starts copying it, and soon people start to think that is the only way to play that profession. I say nuts to that! Metas get broken when someone finds a new way to build that no one has tried and breaks all the old assumptions in the meta. (Well, that and during rebalance patches but that’s inevitable.)

You play the way you want to. You find a build that works for you and if other people don’t like it, tough!

…except for raids. raids are really hard and certain things have to be obeyed…

Dadnir.5038:

Well after reading your post I can say that your title is wrong. It’s not the game that’s disgusting, it’s the player mentality when it come to group content. What disgust you is the fact that players desperatly seek efficiency through known build. The game itself does not force you to follow this trend.

Wrong. The skill system has been ultra-simplified to open the door to as many casual players as possible. This was a decision that has backfired. What made the original Guild Wars fun was the sheer amount of fun you could derive from running unique builds in virtually any environment. Sure it created balancing headaches, but the players loved the variation. The players raved about the variation. Players continued to play the game.

Vix.6730:

Dadnir.5038:

Well after reading your post I can say that your title is wrong. It’s not the game that’s disgusting, it’s the player mentality when it come to group content. What disgust you is the fact that players desperatly seek efficiency through known build. The game itself does not force you to follow this trend.

Wrong. The skill system has been ultra-simplified to open the door to as many casual players as possible. This was a decision that has backfired. What made the original Guild Wars fun was the sheer amount of fun you could derive from running unique builds in virtually any environment. Sure it created balancing headaches, but the players loved the variation. The players raved about the variation. Players continued to play the game.

Backfired for you. Was fun for you. The original Guild Wars 1 was an awesome game for creating builds and it appealed, generally, to harder core players, which most people would probably guess represent a smallish percentage of the playerbase.

But I’m guessing that for every person who loved that aspect of Guild Wars 1, another person either didn’t play or stopped playing Guild Wars 1 because of the Build Wars aspect.

The only way this didn’t backfire is if more people played Guild Wars 1 than Guild Wars 2. I’m relatively certain that more people have played Guild Wars 2 than have played Guild Wars 1.

Even PvP, which Guild Wars 1 was known for, one of the devs once said there are more people playing Guild Wars 2 PvP than have PvPed throughout the history of Guild Wars 1.

So I’m not really sure backfired is the right term.

It’s definitely a significant change in the game system, that was changed for a very deliberate reason.

In Guild Wars 1, I was less immersed in the game world because I was more immersed in the mechanics. I always saw that as a problem.

Those who immerse themselves in the game world, instead of the mechanics (there are probably more of us than you think) don’t necessarily see this as something that backfired.

Completely agree op, this game suffers from the one trick pony syndrome.

Totally agree, in gw 1 you had so many build options that where all viable to use but in Gw 2 now at least seems to be getting pushed into the same as everyone else, especially with the HoT release.

Tekey.7946:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if players could use all weapons then they’d be limited by the number of weapon types. There will always be a limitation. That said, the existing system provides numerous possibilities for builds with some being better than others.

The healing/elite skills are just one skill. Hardly build breaking.

None of what you mentioned hinders build variety to a degree that a player cannot have multiple build options. There is no reason why GW2 must do what was done in GW1 for the build system. I also seem to remember there being certain meta builds that people felt required for specific content. Sounds kind of familiar…

You’re just defending the point that it should stay as it is right now. But you can’t deny that there could be more. More variety. Is there any reason why they shouldn’t change it?

Because if they decide to put resources to change that, they are deciding to not do or delay something else.

At this point we are 4 years in, if people have a problem with a fundamental design decision that results in the game that has builds that are optimal in damage for certain situations, it’s time for you to just move on and accept that it’s not a game you will enjoy playing if this is a deal breaker for you. It’s not like changing a skill or a number.

Players get far too hung up on meta builds in pvp. You don’t have to use or play any of them to be successful. It requires some thinking, effort, and trial and error to find a good build but it’s certainly possible and common.

Meta builds have just been vetted by the community but aren’t necessarily the best. In fact some of them are quite terrible unless you’re on an organized team.

As far as some builds “not being able to kill another 1v1” isn’t a bad thing. Spvp is not 1v1, it’s 5v5. Some builds are more focused on support/healing vs dueling. That’s not a flaw. Some builds are also hard countered by others. Again not a flaw

What did you expect?

They were really clear way before release that they wanted to idiot-proof and stress-proof the MMO formula for GW2.

That meant removing a lot of the potential points of failure for players.

Like it or not, that is the core design philosophy of GW2. You shouldn’t be required to work for anything that isn’t optional, and you shouldn’t be free enough to make yourself awful.

Because you, the player, are simply not smart enough, and do not have the patience required for a more complex or difficult game.

Once run around the forums should tell you that this forumla attracted exactly the community Anet was after. People who find other MMOs too hard, too complicated, too grindy, or too “annoying” and in most ways that’s a near-captive market for GW2 at this point.

These are the people complaining you have to do a thing FOR AN HOUR to get pet X or item Y, or that they can’t have LITERALLY EVERYTHING by doing LITERALLY WHATEVER THEY WANT.

This is not the game you come to for interesting choices and meaningful player interaction. This is the game you come to to relax and take it easy.

When you figure out relaxing isn’t a long term goal for a lot of people, that’s fine. They also designed the payment model to support not playing. You will never fall behind the curve by just not logging in until the next expansion/episode.

PopeUrban.2578:

Once run around the forums should tell you that this forumla attracted exactly the community Anet was after. People who find other MMOs too hard, too complicated, too grindy, or too “annoying” and in most ways that’s a near-captive market for GW2 at this point.

I disagree with this completely. Guild Wars 2 was never meant to be for those people who want an easy mode game. That all started with the blobs forming with Queen’s Jubilee (the first one)

Before that GW2 was not considered an easy game at all. In fact the dungeons of it were some of the hardest dungeons in MMORPG history, I will never forget AC story mode back in Beta. I think most people also forgot all the posts about players getting killed and not knowing how to fight simple veterans in their early story instances.

And let’s not get started with Arah and Lupicus. Or Fractals of the Mists (skipping Swamp because running the wisps was “hard”) Or the Lost Shores meta event fighting those rolling karka. Or getting one dungeon every few story releases, Molten Facility, Aetherblade etc.

The game wasn’t advertised, nor sold, to be the easy mode player’s dream. Something, somewhere went terribly wrong. And they are fixing things with HoT and Raids.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

funny , I’ve never been forced to use a meta build. I’ve been playing since beta, and I’ve only used meta builds during raids. Thats it. So who is making you play meta builds?

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

Well, you are wrong here. Yes, you CAN use different weapons, different skills, different traits.

It isn’t as flexible as it was before the release of HoT, but it isn’t like its utterly restricted to one trait choice each.

You know, unless you are falling into that stupid “I can only play meta” crap trap.

Seriously, no one is making you play meta. That’s your choice to do that. I play whatever I feel like, and I do just fine with it.

Harper.4173:

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

I have 4 months playing guild wars 2 and I think I can make an opinion of it.

I’ll be honest, I never had an experience in MMO like Guild Wars 2 (PVE Content – Living World), is just beautiful.

But there are other things that upset me a lot, including WvW & PVP. I will not talk about it, everyone knows whats poppin.

All I want to talk here is about the Specializations. In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD, They’re gonna scold you if you don’t have that " Bored Meta Build " unlike the Guild Wars (Original & others MMO’s) you could run soooo many crazy build’s and be successful but in Guild Wars 2 you have (1 class = 1 build) and then a massive amount of useless traits and skills.

You can have 3 specializations available in your build and then only 5 skills on your bar, really? is that enough for you?.. is just boring to use the same 3 traitlines on a class and the same weapon for 4+ MONTHS. You can’t customize your primary weapon skills with your secondary, or vice versa. You can’t edit your traits and skills as you want. Everything is like in “automatic” just click here & click there, there you got, done.

I’m sorry, but I think this game is very simple to me.

Sadly the game wasn’t like this initially.
During its early times – in concepts and alphas the game had a much more complex attribute system. Even at launch the trait system allowed for more combinations.
The short of it is this – the more complicated building your character is the more bad players playing ineffective builds and generally being bad you’re going to have.

Anet wants people to enjoy the game easily – to pick it up and play it without needing to theorycraft ( or even think – in most cases) because that means MORE people can play it – and that means MORE money.

So the game was made easier and easier and easier until we have what we have now.

I will agree with this; it’s the one thing I really disliked how they made the trait system more dumbed down and less flexible.

maddoctor.2738:

PopeUrban.2578:

Once run around the forums should tell you that this forumla attracted exactly the community Anet was after. People who find other MMOs too hard, too complicated, too grindy, or too “annoying” and in most ways that’s a near-captive market for GW2 at this point.

I disagree with this completely. Guild Wars 2 was never meant to be for those people who want an easy mode game. That all started with the blobs forming with Queen’s Jubilee (the first one)

Before that GW2 was not considered an easy game at all. In fact the dungeons of it were some of the hardest dungeons in MMORPG history, I will never forget AC story mode back in Beta. I think most people also forgot all the posts about players getting killed and not knowing how to fight simple veterans in their early story instances.

And let’s not get started with Arah and Lupicus. Or Fractals of the Mists (skipping Swamp because running the wisps was “hard”) Or the Lost Shores meta event fighting those rolling karka. Or getting one dungeon every few story releases, Molten Facility, Aetherblade etc.

The game wasn’t advertised, nor sold, to be the easy mode player’s dream. Something, somewhere went terribly wrong. And they are fixing things with HoT and Raids.

ANet has flip-flopped, repeatedly. All added / revised mob armies — from Karka through Mordrem — were harder than the starter mobs. We also saw numerous nerfs to mobs, not to mention the NPE.

It’s as if ANet was trying to do just as the Pope suggests — attract players who found other games too much of a pain — while also doing things to retain those who want more. After all, bigger player base = more revenue. The problem is that players who want to hang out in an empowerment experience and players who want an adrenaline rush require different content. Thus, the flip-flops.

Perhaps ANet has thought all along, “Get them in with easy, and they’ll learn the game and progress to hard.” The question is whether the demographic that doesn’t want hard really wants to progress, how many there are like that, and what the impact of slighting them is on the bottom line. It remains to be seen whether HoT/raids are “righting the ship” or just another pendulum swing.

If you take a look at Ember Bay, you’ll see some of the easiest bosses ever. The sloth queen, the molten dominator and you can’t even fight the giant lava wurm yourself because a golem does it for you. The Fire Islands used to be deadly, now it’s just a joke.

You can see that it flip-flopped again after HoT.

Tekey.7946:

If you take a look at Ember Bay, you’ll see some of the easiest bosses ever. The sloth queen, the molten dominator and you can’t even fight the giant lava wurm yourself because a golem does it for you. The Fire Islands used to be deadly, now it’s just a joke.

You can see that it flip-flopped again after HoT.

It used to be deadly in the Guild Wars 1, you mean. While I won’t disagree that Ember Bay is relatively safe if you’re not sleeping in the monster fields or lava, you can’t exactly compare the two.

The Fire Islands were only dangerous in GW1 because of a few mob types such as the imps and t-Rex (forgot their name).

Rognik.2579:

It used to be deadly in the Guild Wars 1, you mean. While I won’t disagree that Ember Bay is relatively safe if you’re not sleeping in the monster fields or lava, you can’t exactly compare the two.

Yes the deadly statement was related to GW1, but they also advertised Ember Bay as a completely deadly area where everything wants to kill you (in the GW2 making of Rising Flames video).

However, at the same time I wanted to compare the difficulty to the HoT maps. You can see that they went back to easy again.

I mean there’s an active Elder Dragon but the destroyers are just weak.

I agree with this sentiment in competitive structured PvP, and that is because Anet pigeon-holed that PvP type to being very small group conquest. That IS a design flaw for that game type imo, but they are too busy poking the e-sport windmill to realize the game-mode would actually be more fun, and involve more build diversity if they made different pvp game types with a different number of people on each side.

WvW, you can be effective with just about any build as long as you play to the strengths of whatever build you made. You can play a stealth medic thief, or a roaming ganker. You can be a support guardian, or a damage dealer, etc. etc. You do not need meta builds for WvW simply because the increase in number of players effectively reduces the need for one person’s individual skill EXCEPT for the commanders and the scouts.

I will agree that Ember Bay is a bit of a joke in terms of difficulty. But I think it may have been needed. Many players were getting a little fed up with the difficulty in HoT. I’ll say the same thing about the difficulty as I do about the complicated map layouts: As much as I enjoy a challenge in both cases, I recognize that I’m not the only player playing this game. I need other players to enjoy this game, too. Or else I’ll be playing it by myself!

So, is EB a joke? Yeah, pretty much. There are no difficult fights on the island. It’s all easy mode all the time. But maybe that’s what we needed after the other HoT maps? Personally, I preferred BF as a compromise. The fights were a bit more challenging but nothing crazy, and the map was a LOT more interesting, in my opinion. Plus glider combat!

The first MMO I played was a korean grind game with nill customization, only a few armor sets, one weapon set per class and 2 skills (binded to left click and right click) to use at the same time and I loved that game with all my heart. <3

Tbh the amount of skills, builds or weapons don’t make or break a game, it’s the whole experience. And if you can’t appreciate the amazing experience that is Guild Wars 2. That is your loss.

Btw. as a tempest I’m changing traitslines/weapons all the time. I love to play around with water/air/fire/tempest/earth/staff/dagger/focus/warhorn etc.

Tekey.7946:

If you take a look at Ember Bay, you’ll see some of the easiest bosses ever. The sloth queen, the molten dominator and you can’t even fight the giant lava wurm yourself because a golem does it for you. The Fire Islands used to be deadly, now it’s just a joke.

You can see that it flip-flopped again after HoT.

Uhm, You actually can fight the wurm in ember bay directly with ranged weapons if you so desire. Though the setup doesn’t really make it nescesary I suppose.

Then again, with the mursaat and titans gone, who is left to pose a threat? Though i do miss the GW1 destroyers. It seems to me that gw1 had way more varying encounters than GW2. imo.

What keeps most people playing an MMO is whether the game is fun to play or not.
The entire concept that a game has to be challenging or easy to play is meaningless.
Everyone in an MMO doesnt have the same skills and never will, so you cant force a one size fits all players into an MMO and expect it will be fun for everyone.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Uhm, You actually can fight the wurm in ember bay directly with ranged weapons if you so desire. Though the setup doesn’t really make it nescesary I suppose.

Then again, with the mursaat and titans gone, who is left to pose a threat? Though i do miss the GW1 destroyers. It seems to me that gw1 had way more varying encounters than GW2. imo.

Yup, I’m aware that you’re theoretically able to attack it, but it doesn’t make sense like that. They should’t have let a golem do the work for you, the whole fight should have been designed differently.

Well we’ve got a pretty huge threat at the Fire Island Chain -> Elder Dragon. There are in fact new types of destroyers in Ember Bay, with the power the dragon absorbed they should be even deadlier now. The ‘Molten Dominator’ is a champion of Primordus – ridiculous. Lorewise they’re supposed to be stronger than usual destroyers but there’s no difference to those in Kessex Hills.
And yes, the hydras or dryders are also missing.

mauried.5608:

The entire concept that a game has to be challenging or easy to play is meaningless.
Everyone in an MMO doesnt have the same skills and never will, so you cant force a one size fits all players into an MMO and expect it will be fun for everyone.

Every game has its own target group. Talking about the open world: The problem with GW2 is that they want it to fit everyone’s style – from casual to advanced players. With that mindset no one will ever be pleased: There were casual players complaining about the difficulty of HoT while the advanced players were pleased with it. With Ember Bay they’re heading back to ridiculously easy – casual players enjoy it, advanced players just find it boring and dull. They don’t want to have a specified target group in order to get as much players as possible. But that way there’s always a certain group being dissatisfied.

However, there’s another point: the new maps are part of HoT. With HoT you can assume many players already learned a lot since they started and are also able to use elite specializations. Those specializations actually made every class stronger. They adapted the difficulty of the mobs in HoT to match it. Ember Bay is a part of HoT – knowing that the classes (and players) are now stronger, they still reduced the difficulty.

LoL NooBs.5076:

Finally! +1 for this thread.
Guilds dead. Builds dead. What is there to do in this game? Glide? Chat? Wow. Such features.

buy skins that’s what I would call it Fashion Wars.

On one hand populating the gem store to generate income since there is no subscription sounds fair, but the game itself needs to be a priority over the gem store with frequent and accurate balancing.

Meta is better, though meta shouldn’t matter, but if meta is better, then you’d better get a meta.

In PvE i play just as I want too. PvE is simple enough to play how you want and I have perfected my build in PvE so I play alot better with my build than I play with a meta build.

For PvP I have a variant of the meta build but I have changed a few things that fits my playstyle alot more and at my PvP tier I hear now and then how good engineer I am (also hear I get carried once in a while).

But I play GW2 for fun, if someone tells me I play the wrong build I ignore them as I know I do good with my build.

In my opinion, bad players are the ones who needs a meta build to be good. Good players does good or well with their own builds.

Edit: also, there will always be meta. It does not matter how many skills and traits there is, there will only be one or Maby two or three. A read some say that GW1 had so many meta builds… well that is not what I recall, I got yelled at for playing a regular monk and not a specific one. My warrior had to have a specific skillset or I was forced to leave the group. Finally I learned that I rather play solo or with my friends only.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD

Lies. I’ve been a Knight Necro since forever and Knight stats (maxed Toughness) are far from the meta… But I can still do every content with my guildies. You only have to be meta if you play with elitists. Join a friendly guild and/or start your own groups.

Mea.5491:

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

In this game you’re forced to use 1 meta build in different modes, YOU don’t have the freedom to create your own BUILD

Lies. I’ve been a Knight Necro since forever and Knight stats (maxed Toughness) are far from the meta… But I can still do every content with my guildies. You only have to be meta if you play with elitists. Join a friendly guild and/or start your own groups.

+1

Build experimentation is my endgame, and I thrive on figuring out how something unpopular is actually awesome.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

+1

Build experimentation is my endgame, and I thrive on figuring out how something unpopular is actually awesome.

~EW

I’ve always been your secret admirer because of that! :P I feel sorry for people who blindly follow meta builds and they miss out on all the fun! Those are the people who get bored and quit after a few months.

Mea.5491:

I’ve always been your secret admirer because of that! :P

*blushes

Mea.5491:

I feel sorry for people who blindly follow meta builds and they miss out on all the fun! Those are the people who get bored and quit after a few months.

Very true. Had I been following meta, I woulda never tried a rifle/bow warrior, or a passive-regen warrior, or sw/sw celestial warrior, or a scepter/torch guard (2 years ago), or my settler’s no-minion necro, and on, and on… they’ve all been so much fun!

(edit: lately I’ve been toying with the idea for a staff-only, no minion, necro… I think it could be fun too. )

~EW

Ive always felt that meta is primarily useful for PUGing difficult content. The members of the group dont know you, your capabilities, or how your custom build will synergize with theirs. They also, probably, dont want to spend hours discussing or debating the merits of synergy between 10 players’ custom builds.

Meta, assuming that a player understands it, allows for a group of strangers to play well together with minimal fuss. Ideally.

Ashen.2907:

Ive always felt that meta is primarily useful for PUGing difficult content. The members of the group dont know you, your capabilities, or how your custom build will synergize with theirs. They also, probably, dont want to spend hours discussing or debating the merits of synergy between 10 players’ custom builds.

Meta, assuming that a player understands it, allows for a group of strangers to play well together with minimal fuss. Ideally.

This. Demands for meta compliance are an attempt to have some certainty in a grouping method which is otherwise almost completely random.

Ashen.2907:

Ive always felt that meta is primarily useful for PUGing difficult content.

I’m just glad there are different kind of PUGs. I always join the “all welcome” ones. That’s how I made most of my friends in this game. We take forever but still have tons of fun and laughs. Rushing through content with grumpy people feels soulless.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Mea.5491:

I’ve always been your secret admirer because of that! :P

*blushes

Mea.5491:

I feel sorry for people who blindly follow meta builds and they miss out on all the fun! Those are the people who get bored and quit after a few months.

Very true. Had I been following meta, I woulda never tried a rifle/bow warrior, or a passive-regen warrior, or sw/sw celestial warrior, or a scepter/torch guard (2 years ago), or my settler’s no-minion necro, and on, and on… they’ve all been so much fun!

(edit: lately I’ve been toying with the idea for a staff-only, no minion, necro… I think it could be fun too. )

~EW

I have a mace/shield + rifle PVT Warrior
a hammer + mace and shield block, boon and heal Guardian
a no-minion GS Necro
an S/D condi/healer Tempest

I’m not sure I’m even allowed to look at a meta build page with those choices!! I may not be optimum, but I have way more fun than I would with a scripted build.

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not forced to play a specific build. if others are requiring you to play a specific build in their groups then create your own.

Yeah because that’s possible. Lets take Tier-4 fractals for example.

I’d like to play a Ranger with Longbow (not druid), who would like to take me along? Oh and I cannot afford to sacrifice a utility slot for Frost Spirit because I prefer signets with passive abilities like self healing/20% damage and condition remove and speed.

I agree with the OP that this game is way, WAY too focused on the ‘meta or gtfo’ mentality! And that’s caused by one simple thing, the face that this game is “balanced” with PvP/PvE/WvW in mind, instead of balancing them seperately! It’s simply too much work for anet devs to properly balance professions in 3 different categories.

Sorry but there are some parts where you simply shouldn’t play what you want. It’s not that 90% of the rest of the game does matter, right?

This constant complaining just be cause you aren’t willing to adapt for a single fracture of this game just baffles me. If you really aren’t willing to swap signet of the hunt for frost spirit. For real? It’s one single skill, and signet of the hunt doesn’t help in dungeons/fractals anyway…