Guild Wars 2

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

yeah, real lame huh?

Yes, because having to pay for an optional expansion to the core game is blasphemy.

/sarcasm

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Season 2 had a finale and a climax.

So, were you angry when the Lord of the Rings movies came out and you had to pay to see the Two Towers and then the return of the king after already paying for the fellowship of the ring?

Were you also angry when Warcraft 3, the frozen throne came out and you have to pay to see what happened to Arthas after the events of Reign of Chaos?

Were you also angry when Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone ended and you had to buy the next book?

Yeah, you sound that petty.

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

If it is so bad, do not buy it./stop playing the game.

BilboBaggins.5620:

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

You can’t use the same analogy. The TV show was free to begin with. GW2 had to be purchased.

Now visiting your DVD analogy: You can record your show and watch it free forever, or you can choose to purchase the DVD and get some extra content that comes along with the show.

Cause there hasn’t been a soul on these forums who ever asked for a paid expansion…oh wait….

Moteris.5913:

If it is so bad, do not buy it./stop playing the game.

Non sequitur

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

I wasn’t complaining. Just know what we will be expecting from Anet in the future.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

That’s not really what happened, I think.

The Living Story pretty much failed. ArenaNet focused a lot on the China release but it was worse than expected. The number of players has been falling, they have made changes to their business model (selling Living World chapters) yet profit has not risen; in other words, the future doesn’t look bright for ArenaNet.

They probably decided to make an expansion simply because they have no idea what to do now. This is nearing a desperate move. And it remains to be seen how well planned and how well implemented the promised features for the expansion will be.

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

In terms of money spent to time played you can. Many people have at least 1000 hours, which is far more than the cost of the game.

Test.8734:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

That’s not really what happened, I think.

The Living Story pretty much failed. ArenaNet focused a lot on the China release but it was worse than expected. The number of players has been falling, they have made changes to their business model (selling Living World chapters) yet profit has not risen; in other words, the future doesn’t look bright for ArenaNet.

They probably decided to make an expansion simply because they have no idea what to do now. This is nearing a desperate move. And it remains to be seen how well planned and how well implemented the promised features for the expansion will be.

Living Story failing is a matter of opinion. I actually liked the Living Story and how it delivered lore. Living Story was about lore obviously and anyone who played it and actually paid attention knows the full story up to this point. So actually Living Story was a success to me.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

You can’t compare them, but you can compare the time value you got from similar amounts of money.

Lazaar.9123:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

In terms of money spent to time played you can. Many people have at least 1000 hours, which is far more than the cost of the game.

No, you really can’t. MMOs are ever changing, ever expanding worlds. Also how many of those hours are spent by people just standing around in town socializing with their friends. Many people use MMOs as a social network, that’s not game “content” provided. They’re completely different beasts.

Test.8734:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

That’s not really what happened, I think.

The Living Story pretty much failed. ArenaNet focused a lot on the China release but it was worse than expected. The number of players has been falling, they have made changes to their business model (selling Living World chapters) yet profit has not risen; in other words, the future doesn’t look bright for ArenaNet.

They probably decided to make an expansion simply because they have no idea what to do now. This is nearing a desperate move. And it remains to be seen how well planned and how well implemented the promised features for the expansion will be.

The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Please. I think it’s pretty obvious this expansion has been in the works for some time. I sincerely doubt this was a “oh crap we gotta make money somehow!”

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

In terms of money spent to time played you can. Many people have at least 1000 hours, which is far more than the cost of the game.

No, you really can’t. MMOs are ever changing, ever expanding worlds. Also how many of those hours are spent by people just standing around in town socializing with their friends. Many people use MMOs as a social network, that’s not game “content” provided. They’re completely different beasts.

Technically it is game content provided, as it is inside the game. Try to argue as much as you like, people got far more value out of the game than what they paid for.

Lazaar.9123:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

You can’t compare Dragon Age: Inquisition to Guild Wars 2 let alone any MMO, different beasts.

In terms of money spent to time played you can. Many people have at least 1000 hours, which is far more than the cost of the game.

No, you really can’t. MMOs are ever changing, ever expanding worlds. Also how many of those hours are spent by people just standing around in town socializing with their friends. Many people use MMOs as a social network, that’s not game “content” provided. They’re completely different beasts.

Technically it is game content provided, as it is inside the game. Try to argue as much as you like, people got far more value out of the game than what they paid for.

How so? Maybe games were meant to be this way from the start?

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

So their giving free stuff was bad? Seriously?!

That’s just plain unreasonable. Sure, they are finishing it with a paid expansion, but that expansion is giving us a LOT more than just the story continuation. Furthermore, most MMOs dont even give the free content that GW2 did.

And yet people will always find a way to find that could in every silver lining. Bravo, sir. Bravo.

“We hate this drip, drip, drip of the Living Story. We want a paid expansion.”

“Here’s a paid expansion.”

“What? I don’t want to pay cash for an expansion. Can I pay in gold?”

Honestly, a fine example of kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t.

They’ve stated it’s bigger than any of the current regions, the ones with multiple zones. They aren’t giving us a pocket zones like Dry Top or Silverwastes.

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY ANET

Behellagh.1468:

“We hate this drip, drip, drip of the Living Story. We want a paid expansion.”

“Here’s a paid expansion.”

“What? I don’t want to pay cash for an expansion. Can I pay in gold?”

Honestly, a fine example of kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t.

They’ve stated it’s bigger than any of the current regions, the ones with multiple zones. They aren’t giving us a pocket zones like Dry Top or Silverwastes.

I guess I am the only one who didn’t want an expansion. I thought Living World was great and whatever features that came in was just bonus. I supported Anet through real money gem purchases….. Obviously buying virtual items on a gem shop doesn’t make profit for some reason.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

I guess I am the only one who didn’t want an expansion. I thought Living World was great and whatever features that came in was just bonus. I supported Anet through real money gem purchases….. Obviously buying virtual items on a gem shop doesn’t make profit for some reason.

You are definitely in the minority. A lot of people have been wanting a paid expansion for a long time.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Behellagh.1468:

“We hate this drip, drip, drip of the Living Story. We want a paid expansion.”

“Here’s a paid expansion.”

“What? I don’t want to pay cash for an expansion. Can I pay in gold?”

Honestly, a fine example of kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t.

They’ve stated it’s bigger than any of the current regions, the ones with multiple zones. They aren’t giving us a pocket zones like Dry Top or Silverwastes.

I guess I am the only one who didn’t want an expansion. I thought Living World was great and whatever features that came in was just bonus. I supported Anet through real money gem purchases….. Obviously buying virtual items on a gem shop doesn’t make profit for some reason.

We don’t know that. They could be making money just fine but want to make more. That being the case, though, its clear that ANY mmo wants serious expansion level releases once in awhile. Nothing strange or different from what any other successful mmo has done.

Morfedel.4165:

Please. I think it’s pretty obvious this expansion has been in the works for some time. I sincerely doubt this was a “oh crap we gotta make money somehow!”

We won’t know until we actually see the quality and polish (or lack of) in the expansion itself. The ZAM interview had some troubling comments, though:

“‘That is often the strategy that a lot of games use when they grow into an expansion,’ Colin said. ‘Our focus is instead on a smaller number of maps that have an incredible amount of deep replay value.’”

…So, expect 3 maps at most with “replay value” meaning “a lot of stuff to grind for”.

“For the launch of HoT, ArenaNet is focused on making one fantastic map for the game mode that lives up to the promise of what Stronghold can be. It is once they have that and love the map, Colin says, that they will start thinking and worrying about other maps. Right now it is about delivering one perfect map that defines Stronghold.”

…So the new game mode will have only one map.

“As for guilds overall, Colin said that they are staying really high level and will fill in the details about guilds down the road.”

…So ArenaNet likely doesn’t know itself how the guild hall system will work.

And so on. The result will tell us whether this was a rushed product as a last resource, or something carefully planned years in advance.

Test.8734:

Morfedel.4165:

Please. I think it’s pretty obvious this expansion has been in the works for some time. I sincerely doubt this was a “oh crap we gotta make money somehow!”

We won’t know until we actually see the quality and polish (or lack of) in the expansion itself. The ZAM interview had some troubling comments, though:

“‘That is often the strategy that a lot of games use when they grow into an expansion,’ Colin said. ‘Our focus is instead on a smaller number of maps that have an incredible amount of deep replay value.’”

…So, expect 3 maps at most with “replay value” meaning “a lot of stuff to grind for”.

“For the launch of HoT, ArenaNet is focused on making one fantastic map for the game mode that lives up to the promise of what Stronghold can be. It is once they have that and love the map, Colin says, that they will start thinking and worrying about other maps. Right now it is about delivering one perfect map that defines Stronghold.”

…So the new game mode will have only one map.

“As for guilds overall, Colin said that they are staying really high level and will fill in the details about guilds down the road.”

…So ArenaNet likely doesn’t know itself how the guild hall system will work.

And so on. The result will tell us whether this was a rushed product as a last resource, or something carefully planned years in advance.

What I mean is I think it’s flawed reasoning to automatically assume that they did this out of desperation at the last minute. I’m not saying they will do a good job of it. I believe it’s something they’ve been planning for some time, though granted I could be wrong.

But I have my suspicions. I remember some people speculating that they were holding back on an expansion because the parent company was coming out with another mmo (Wildstar I think?), and they didn’t want to be competeing with themselves, so the living story was a way to hold off, keep the customer base at least marginally mollified, until (wildstar?) had a chance to get it’s feet firmly under it before doing a solid push on an expansion for GW2.

Truth? Who knows. Maybe. But I just get a (granted utterly unjustified) feeling that this has been at least in the planning stages for some time.

Test.8734:

Morfedel.4165:

Please. I think it’s pretty obvious this expansion has been in the works for some time. I sincerely doubt this was a “oh crap we gotta make money somehow!”

We won’t know until we actually see the quality and polish (or lack of) in the expansion itself. The ZAM interview had some troubling comments, though:

“‘That is often the strategy that a lot of games use when they grow into an expansion,’ Colin said. ‘Our focus is instead on a smaller number of maps that have an incredible amount of deep replay value.’”

…So, expect 3 maps at most with “replay value” meaning “a lot of stuff to grind for”.

“For the launch of HoT, ArenaNet is focused on making one fantastic map for the game mode that lives up to the promise of what Stronghold can be. It is once they have that and love the map, Colin says, that they will start thinking and worrying about other maps. Right now it is about delivering one perfect map that defines Stronghold.”

…So the new game mode will have only one map.

“As for guilds overall, Colin said that they are staying really high level and will fill in the details about guilds down the road.”

…So ArenaNet likely doesn’t know itself how the guild hall system will work.

And so on. The result will tell us whether this was a rushed product as a last resource, or something carefully planned years in advance.

So wait if the Stronghold map fails then they might even take Stronghold out of the game?( moba style gw1 esque gvg hope it doesn’t fail it could be the new Esport setting!) I mean they already did take out one map. Raid on the Capricorn which IMO was a great looking map!

Remember that many new maps in traditional expansions are for leveling, and as such get completely abandoned after people are at the level cap, so those maps don’t count.
Think for a second just how many of those zones in traditional expansions are completely ignored afterwards.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

So wait if the Stronghold map fails then they might even take Stronghold out of the game?( moba style gw1 esque gvg hope it doesn’t fail it could be the new Esport setting!) I mean they already did take out one map. Raid on the Capricorn which IMO was a great looking map!

The original Guild Wars introduced a new kind of PvP called “hero versus hero”. It was such a massive failure that it was eventually removed from the game. So yep, it’s possible that, if Stronghold is another massive failure, ArenaNet would remove it.

Test.8734:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

So wait if the Stronghold map fails then they might even take Stronghold out of the game?( moba style gw1 esque gvg hope it doesn’t fail it could be the new Esport setting!) I mean they already did take out one map. Raid on the Capricorn which IMO was a great looking map!

The original Guild Wars introduced a new kind of PvP called “hero versus hero”. It was such a massive failure that it was eventually removed from the game. So yep, it’s possible that, if Stronghold is another massive failure, ArenaNet would remove it.

Possible. But one of the models for Stronghold was Fort Aspenwood, and FA was very awesome and very popular. I think we have a reasonable chance that it could work out well.

BilboBaggins.5620:

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

maybe they should begin to place commercials in the game to earn money, or a subscription like pay-tv

BammBamm.6719:

BilboBaggins.5620:

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

maybe they should begin to place commercials in the game to earn money, or a subscription like pay-tv

They don’t need that, they’re like PBS they have benefactors like me who spend a lot in the gem store.

BilboBaggins.5620:

BammBamm.6719:

BilboBaggins.5620:

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

maybe they should begin to place commercials in the game to earn money, or a subscription like pay-tv

They don’t need that, they’re like PBS they have benefactors like me who spend a lot in the gem store.

and that made possible to give us free content and support and servers for the past 2 years (totally without commercials and advertisement)

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Lazaar.9123:

You already got far more worth than what you paid for, what are you complaining about?
$60-70 AAA game usually has around 60-100 hours, sometimes even less.

I wasn’t complaining. Just know what we will be expecting from Anet in the future.

We can expect good content and more expansions as well as people to complain they have to pay for them. Sorry but using the living story as a tool to build up to something as big as an expansion is a good thing.

Chewablesleeptablet I swear the only threads I’ve seen you post on here have simply been whining because you have to pay for the expansion.

You had to do the same thing with GW1 Factions, Nightfall -and- Eye of the North.

Yes, this is what you should expect. That is the nature of the beast that is a MMORPG.

Get over it.

This is so laughable. If you’re like me and every other person I play with, you’ve received your money’s worth out of buying the game. Living Story has been a perk, not something you’re entitled to.

If you want to complain because a buy-to-play game is going to have buy-to-play expansions, please, leave. Find a free to play game where you can revel in the subpar content that your fairytale view of a world without profit leads.

Behellagh.1468:

“We hate this drip, drip, drip of the Living Story. We want a paid expansion.”

“Here’s a paid expansion.”

“What? I don’t want to pay cash for an expansion. Can I pay in gold?”

Honestly, a fine example of kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t.

They’ve stated it’s bigger than any of the current regions, the ones with multiple zones. They aren’t giving us a pocket zones like Dry Top or Silverwastes.

In fairness to the people who want to pay in gold, Anet gets just as much real $. It just comes from people buying gems and turning it into gold instead of spending it themselves (or buying more than normal and selling surplus)

Dasenthal.6520:

In fairness to the people who want to pay in gold, Anet gets just as much real $. It just comes from people buying gems and turning it into gold instead of spending it themselves (or buying more than normal and selling surplus)

Um, no, ArenaNet does not get as much real $. If the gold they spent they farmed ingame, ArenaNet gets nothing. Heh.

I really don’t see a problem with this. They want to sell the expansion to as many people as possible. This is standard practice.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Behellagh.1468:

“We hate this drip, drip, drip of the Living Story. We want a paid expansion.”

“Here’s a paid expansion.”

“What? I don’t want to pay cash for an expansion. Can I pay in gold?”

Honestly, a fine example of kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t.

They’ve stated it’s bigger than any of the current regions, the ones with multiple zones. They aren’t giving us a pocket zones like Dry Top or Silverwastes.

I guess I am the only one who didn’t want an expansion. I thought Living World was great and whatever features that came in was just bonus. I supported Anet through real money gem purchases….. Obviously buying virtual items on a gem shop doesn’t make profit for some reason.

I’m also one who didn’t NEED a paid expansion and I think LS2 is a nice compromise of telling a story but keeping it around for replay value. But I’m not a hard core player even though I had been playing 15 hrs a week. I just don’t play according to some g/hr metric but rather my own “am I having fun” metric.

But those who played GW since the beginning expected GW2 to proceed the same way, with an expansion within a year and when that didn’t happen, they didn’t take it well. The WoW players saw paid expansions as a fact of life every 2 years as a fact of MMOs in general (along with a level hike).

It was a case of “you use to do it, everyone else (meaning WoW) does it, why aren’t you doing it?”

Are people not aware that the ‘expansion’ is the opening for Living Story Season 3? Yes, one we’re going to have to pay for. It actually is brilliant because people said they’d pay for it.

Repeatedly.

I agree. Seems silly to me to demand to pay for something you got for free, granted in smaller doses, but wasn’t my call.

But, again, time will tell if this will be a boom or a bust.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

I don’t think you understand what “climax” means. We’re nowhere near that yet.

JLHiggs.6258:

Dasenthal.6520:

In fairness to the people who want to pay in gold, Anet gets just as much real $. It just comes from people buying gems and turning it into gold instead of spending it themselves (or buying more than normal and selling surplus)

Um, no, ArenaNet does not get as much real $. If the gold they spent they farmed ingame, ArenaNet gets nothing. Heh.

Your right they actually get more real money when someone converts gold to gems(because of the conversion fee). You see when you buy gems with gold they are buying gems that someone else bought with real money and converted to gold if the person buying gem with gold wasn’t there then the person buying gems to convert to wouldn’t be able to sell his gems and wouldn’t have bought them in the first place.

All gems(except for the relative few that come from achievements) are representative of real world currency so it doesn’t matter if the person exchanged in game gold for them or not they are representative of real world profit for Anet.

Cyrill Faust.9340:

JLHiggs.6258:

Dasenthal.6520:

In fairness to the people who want to pay in gold, Anet gets just as much real $. It just comes from people buying gems and turning it into gold instead of spending it themselves (or buying more than normal and selling surplus)

Um, no, ArenaNet does not get as much real $. If the gold they spent they farmed ingame, ArenaNet gets nothing. Heh.

Your right they actually get more real money when someone converts gold to gems(because of the conversion fee). You see when you buy gems with gold they are buying gems that someone else bought with real money and converted to gold if the person buying gem with gold wasn’t there then the person buying gems to convert to wouldn’t be able to sell his gems and wouldn’t have bought them in the first place.

All gems(except for the relative few that come from achievements) are representative of real world currency so it doesn’t matter if the person exchanged in game gold for them or not they are representative of real world profit for Anet.

Those gems could have been gems that were already in the system though, which makes quarterly profit reports much harder to do, as they can not be sure if those profits were actually made in that time frame. There is a lot of people that hoard gems to sell later at a higher price.

It’s what they should have done from the start. Since Season 1 Episode 1 of Living World, I have been relatively against it. Guild Wars 1 had Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of The North that featured campaigns of their own with a “couple” of zones. Had they stuck to that formula sooner, perhaps things would have been going more smoothly. They got lazy though.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

I doubt HoT will have less content than LS2, so saying they put only “the climax” behind a pay wall is a lie. It’s more like they released a teaser for free and then release the “real” story in the paid expansion.

For some reason I doubt we will kill Mordremoth in the expansion

BilboBaggins.5620:

dsslive.8473:

ye so lame that we get free content to keep us going in between expansions instead of waiting ~2 years without getting anything.

/sarcasm

Now take that same mentality and apply it to your favorite tv show. Why should a network give you the final season for free? It should go direct to DVD on a per episode basis for $20 a pop! Best way to milk your loyal fans.

A flawed analogy. Broadcasters make money off of the commercials that air in break times. That’s their main source of income. A show is “free” because it’s just a tool to help them generate (more) commercial money. The more viewers a show (or rather, the broadcaster) has, the more money they can ask if someone wants to air their commercial in the break(s) before, in the middle of, or after the show aired. So, say you want to air your commercial just before Game of Thrones comes on. You’ll be paying a lot more than if you would like it aired on the same channel in the morning, during the shows that generate way, way less viewers.

If we went by your analogy, anet should make the expansion free while placing in-game ads to generate money. I’ll tell ya, I’d rather pay 40~50 Euros than see ads for Mountain Dew and Doritos all over the game.

TL;DR: You can’t compare TV and Guild Wars 2, they work off of completely different strategies to generate income.