Guild Wars 2

Something I noticed about elite specializations is that the first trait (Minor Adept) has an inconsistency between classes. Initially I thought it was explained that the Minor Adept trait for all elite specializations would be a non-trait in essence that simply explains the addition of weapon type, utility skills and any class changes. However, now that we have 8/9 elite specializations revealed we can see that this is inconsistent between classes where some have these explanations and some instead have a proper functional trait.

I think it would make a lot more sense to keep these elite specializations (and any future ones) in line with current specializations by having a normal Minor Adept trait that is actually a trait. Keep the explanation on a pop up of the spec picture to the left of the trait bar. I understand that this would mean some elite specializations would gain another trait as replacement but since this is only a Minor Adept I feel it won’t be too impactful. I believe this makes much more sense going forward. Here is an example of the Minor Adept traits for each elite specialization:

• Guardian, Dragonhunter; Virtuous Action: The guardian’s resolve has further increased, allowing virtues to be manifested as physical aspects.
• Revenant, Herald; Crystal Harbinger: You can now equip a shield, use legendary dragon stance skills, and gain access to the facet of nature.
• Warrior, Berserker; Primal Rage: You can equip torches and use rage skills. Gain access to berserk mode and primal bursts.
• Engineer, Scrapper; Function Gyro: You gain access to the function gyro, which can be used to finish a foe or revive an ally at range.
• Thief, Daredevil; Enforcer Training: Gain access to the physical skill category and staff weapon type. Your maximum endurance threshold is increased.
• Elementalist, Tempest; Singularity: Attain elemental singularity by remaining in an attunement for a period of time. Upon attaining singularity, you may overload the attunement to your vicinity.
• Mesmer, Chronomancer; Time Splitter: You can equip shields and gain access to chronomancer wells. Gain access to continuum split/shift, which allows you to revert to an earlier point in time.
• Necromancer, Reaper; Shroud Knight: You can equip greatswords and use reaper shouts. Death shroud is replaced with reaper’s shroud, which has more melee oriented skills.

TL;DR: Suggestion: The Minor Adept trait for all elite specializations should be a proper functional trait to be in line with normal specializations. The explanation should not use a trait slot.

I think it’s a textual inconsistency but that all of them basically give the new weapon and mechanics, and the trait is a coding necessity to mark the character as being in the Elite spec.

TL;DR at the end of a long post?

While there are ways to program permissions without tying them to traits, I suspect by the feedback on the Elite specs so far, one of the following conditions applies, making this a non-issue.

1. The elite specs are very OP, thus adding another minor trait would make them (potentially) more OP.
2. The elite specs are really bad, and adding another minor trait would not save them.

All depends on who is posting, of course.

They all grant the mechanical change and don’t do much else. I don’t see the problem here. Different elite specs change up the class in diggerent ways, but all of these traits simple say ‘add skills and a weapon and the special whatsits that come with the spec’

I’m pretty sure they’ll be “standardizing” the descriptions eventually so that they’re consistent between elite specs. They just haven’t gotten around to it and / or haven’t decided which way they’re going with it precisely.

Personally, I’m hoping they go for the route with the little icon displaying which new weapon is granted rather than shoving it in the description. Heck, I’d like it if they had a second icon to represent the new utility gained as well, though admittedly that may be somewhat difficult to express in icon form. Still, I’m sure they could come up with some sort of icon, and then just let you hover your mouse over the icon to see a text description.

As for being “proper traits”… I think they all are already. Each one grants access to the spec-specific mechanic. Berserk, Reaper Shroud, Function Gyro, ect. Actually, that is far more than most minor traits in the game give you, not less. I’d consider them completely “proper”.

PopeUrban.2578:

They all grant the mechanical change and don’t do much else. I don’t see the problem here. Different elite specs change up the class in diggerent ways, but all of these traits simple say ‘add skills and a weapon and the special whatsits that come with the spec’

Exactly. I’m seeing no inconsistency in the minor traits. Perhaps Dreamcore.7632 can clarify what he is seeing here?

From what i see, the only odd one is Daredevil, which gives increased endurance on top of standard (weapon access, specialization skill access, adjustment to class mechanics) changes.

Even that isn’t an odd man out, Astralporing. It’s adding something baseline, the way Chronomancer gets F5 added, something that is always passively there when you’re in the spec and is a defining mechanical change.

Astralporing.1957:

From what i see, the only odd one is Daredevil, which gives increased endurance on top of standard (weapon access, specialization skill access, adjustment to class mechanics) changes.

The extra endurance is half of the adjusted mechanic, the other half being the dodge replacements that take the place of the GM traits in stead of having GMs that are more universally useful.

I agree its pretty silly to have them even be called “elite specs” when the first minor is literally a useless trait that enables the core flavor of the elite spec.

The trait-line itself should be that function not a minor within it. I chalk it up to short-sighted or bad design and not thinking long-term.

Comparatively all these “new goodies” you’re getting on most of these elite specs don’t add up to losing a functional minor trait. Look within other trait-lines within your profession and compare that first minor to your elite specs minor.

Also take into consideration that when balance passes are done on your class all your “goodies” will be subject to them making that minor potentially even more underwhelming.

It’s also very silly that the new weapons are glued to the elite specs and long term will be a terrible idea. Warriors will always have the most core weapon options? That seems pretty unfair.

Also what happens once you’ve made all the Legendarys and are waiting for elite specs to use them on your main class, you now have to decide between which elite spec to play as to use your “new toys” seems like an arbitrary restriction.

It’s not arbitrary at all. The concern is that allowing infinite combinations overcomplicates the design space and at some point actively prevents designing impactful and fun new skills or weapon sets. The difference between 5 new weapon types that you can only use one of, and five new weapon types you can use any of all together means you have to balance each addition against not only the core spec, but the elites as well.

It’s done the way it is so they can, for instance, design a 15 second stunbreak with a reactive knockback and put it on the daredevil, but don’t have to worry about that skill making a future “shadowmancer” overpowered because the shadowmancer’s focus skills also grant blocks, and the mixture of the two creates a build that’s simply too good.

Going forward in to 5 or 10 elite specs later you start to see the same problem that GW1 had over time, it becomes virtually impossible to design cool new things that don’t become somehow completely broken and overpowered because they can be used with any or all of the old things, so you end up having to make completely lackluster nonsense to prevent it.

The way they’re handling elites now, they only have to balance each new elite spec against the base class, which means each can have a pretty strong set of skills and identity without worrying that they’d end up completely overpowered when combined.

Dreamcore.7632:

…

• Guardian, Dragonhunter; Virtuous Action: The guardian’s resolve has further increased, allowing virtues to be manifested as physical aspects.
• Revenant, Herald; Crystal Harbinger: You can now equip a shield, use legendary dragon stance skills, and gain access to the facet of nature.
• Warrior, Berserker; Primal Rage: You can equip torches and use rage skills. Gain access to berserk mode and primal bursts.
• Engineer, Scrapper; Function Gyro: You gain access to the function gyro, which can be used to finish a foe or revive an ally at range.
• Thief, Daredevil; Enforcer Training: Gain access to the physical skill category and staff weapon type. Your maximum endurance threshold is increased.
• Elementalist, Tempest; Singularity: Attain elemental singularity by remaining in an attunement for a period of time. Upon attaining singularity, you may overload the attunement to your vicinity.
• Mesmer, Chronomancer; Time Splitter: You can equip shields and gain access to chronomancer wells. Gain access to continuum split/shift, which allows you to revert to an earlier point in time.
• Necromancer, Reaper; Shroud Knight: You can equip greatswords and use reaper shouts. Death shroud is replaced with reaper’s shroud, which has more melee oriented skills.

Daredevil sticks out to me too. It’s new mechanic is extra dodges. Reading all of the traits next to each other like this makes me sad that I main a thief.

Artanis.4963:

PopeUrban.2578:

They all grant the mechanical change and don’t do much else. I don’t see the problem here. Different elite specs change up the class in diggerent ways, but all of these traits simple say ‘add skills and a weapon and the special whatsits that come with the spec’

Exactly. I’m seeing no inconsistency in the minor traits. Perhaps Dreamcore.7632 can clarify what he is seeing here?

Sorry I have been away a few days.

Basically the way I see it, some of these elite spec minor traits are not a trait at all. Let’s take Reaper for example; we gain access to new weapon type & skills(standard to all elite specs and is not any advantage literally speaking over any other choice of core weapons or skills). We then gain Reaper Shroud, which in turn replaces Death Shroud. Again, this is a straight replacement where, similar to the weapon and skill choices, there will be cases where either Shroud is better for the scenario.

So what actual function do we get for our minor trait? Not ALL elite specs are like this and that is what I am getting at. Daredevil for example, gets a flat endurance bar boost – this is a straight up improvement and a functional trait. Scrapper gains the ability of function gyro to finish or res from range – again, another improvement, a functional trait. Berserker gains the ability to use Berserk mode, it is a straight addition and therefore a functional trait.

On the other hand we have Reaper and Dragonhunter for example, both of which simply get altered profession mechanics, there are no straight gains here but instead just straight swap out from what we had before.

Just as a last example then, comparing to a normal specialization on the Warrior class. On Strength, when slotted I gain a damage attack at the end of my dodge rolls – a flat boost functional trait.