Guild Wars 2

Really guys?
You put WoW versus GW2?
WoW has titles that GW2 will never obtain, yet the people who play WoW are willing to pay, not only because they follow a STRONG storyline from earlier games, yet, in WoW expansions they add like ALOT, so the money you waste is enough to cover the cost.
Here they will add a new class, 10 lvl more, raids, and elite specs(who has ever released such a crap expansion and such advantage),really?
So please DONT compare WoW with GW2 its a different stroy and both gameplay.
Just imagine if WoW had action combat.(as expansion)
would you buy it?

That’s not the point tho

ShadowAlteros.6125:

Really guys?
You put WoW versus GW2?
WoW has titles that GW2 will never obtain, yet the people who play WoW are willing to pay, not only because they follow a STRONG storyline from earlier games, yet, in WoW expansions they add like ALOT, so the money you waste is enough to cover the cost.
Here they will add a new class, 10 lvl more, raids, and elite specs(who has ever released such a crap expansion and such advantage),really?
So please DONT compare WoW with GW2 its a different stroy and both gameplay.
Just imagine if WoW had action combat.(as expansion)
would you buy it?

I think you’ve missed the whole point of this thread. I suggest you reread it.

To answer the question, no. HoT isn’t pay to win per se. The new skills are just that, new skills. But they aren’t by nature drastically powerful compared to the skills all of the classes have. At least that’s my opinion on the matter.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ShadowAlteros.6125:

Really guys?
You put WoW versus GW2?
WoW has titles that GW2 will never obtain, yet the people who play WoW are willing to pay, not only because they follow a STRONG storyline from earlier games, yet, in WoW expansions they add like ALOT, so the money you waste is enough to cover the cost.
Here they will add a new class, 10 lvl more, raids, and elite specs(who has ever released such a crap expansion and such advantage),really?
So please DONT compare WoW with GW2 its a different stroy and both gameplay.
Just imagine if WoW had action combat.(as expansion)
would you buy it?

I think you’ve missed the whole point of this thread. I suggest you reread it.

You actually understood what he was trying to say? I am impressed. Cause what I just saw was a jumbled mess and could not understand what he was trying to say.

eisberg.2379:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ShadowAlteros.6125:

Really guys?
You put WoW versus GW2?
WoW has titles that GW2 will never obtain, yet the people who play WoW are willing to pay, not only because they follow a STRONG storyline from earlier games, yet, in WoW expansions they add like ALOT, so the money you waste is enough to cover the cost.
Here they will add a new class, 10 lvl more, raids, and elite specs(who has ever released such a crap expansion and such advantage),really?
So please DONT compare WoW with GW2 its a different stroy and both gameplay.
Just imagine if WoW had action combat.(as expansion)
would you buy it?

I think you’ve missed the whole point of this thread. I suggest you reread it.

You actually understood what he was trying to say? I am impressed. Cause what I just saw was a jumbled mess and could not understand what he was trying to say.

I pay money to post on the forums and have L33t p2w forum post deciphering skills.

i don’t think it’s pay to win, when a new expansion comes out for pay to play games, your generally expected to buy said expansion if you want to keep progressing.

so, like, for wow, if you want to get to end game it isn’t enough to just buy the base game, you have to get all the expansions as well, and no one considers that pay to win, mostly because that’s just the natural progression of the game

in gw2’s case, the expansion is actually LESS “pay to win” than other subscription mmos because your still viable without HoT, you just won’t be as competitive as people with access to elite specs

pretty sure there is intended to be counters for as much of the new stuff as the old stuff

remember this is a beta and they are not done balancing so perhaps some of the new stuff might be overpowered but that can change

Its a expansion if you not gonna buy it you will suffer for it but its not P2W as this is not a F2P game you need to buy core/expansion in this game just like in GW1.

GW2 is an unconventional mmorpg, hipster alike, trying hard to be different.
The problem we are looking at with the vanilla core and HoT expansion is there are no vertical progression, unlike other mmorpg with vertical progression.
Assessing whether HoT is going to be P2Win will be awkwardly different too, in a sense.

Basically it will come down to this:
Will the new elites become part of the cookie cutter build (aka meta) that stomp everything else without it pvp wise?
Will the new elites become part of the cookie cutter build (aka meta) that are top builds pve and required for raid participation? Remember raid is coming, which means hc stuffs (supposedly).
If those 2 are yes, then yes, HoT is P2Win.

Everything will come down to balancing.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Pay to win:

You get rappelz for free (it’s f2p game).

You use basic pet. You are like ‘omg this pet is crazy weak, why does it die so much’. You see someone with a dragon pet. They kill the same mob 20x faster. You decide you want that pet as well. But on average it costs 2000$ dollar to tame that pet and get decent gear for it (yes both cost money and a lot. Just one attempt to ‘safely tame’ (don’t loose next attempt) = 12$ and they put succes rates very low.

2000$ for a much stronger pet (some even cost more now). That is pay to win.

Is gw2 even remotely close to this kind if pay to win? No. Deal with it. HoT is buy to play. Pay for features. What you see as powercreep are meant as features (and will if needed be re-balanced).

Expansions are NOT pay to win. Don’t expect anything when you aren’t buying the full product. It’s like playing a trial of a game, and saying it’s pay to win because you didn’t buy the product or like here, the full product. This discussion shouldn’t even exist.

Kirnale.5914:

Expansions are NOT pay to win. Don’t expect anything when you aren’t buying the full product. It’s like playing a trial of a game, and saying it’s pay to win because you didn’t buy the product or like here, the full product. This discussion shouldn’t even exist.

Expansion in conventional sense is not p2win, in vertical progression game. Ala wow, rift, etc. GW2 on the other hand … is different.

GW2 is not a conventional mmorpg, it doesn’t have vertical progression and not promoting it at all.
If anet gets the the balancing all wrong, it could potentially turn into P2Win expansion.
Basically you can’t say to those @ f2p core vanilla, if you didn’t buy expansion you deserved to get stomped at.

OP is implying the domination of elites during beta. His/her concern is legit, given what kind of game GW2 is.
Lots of ppl truly doesn’t understand GW2.
Anet does not intend elite builds to be stronger. They are supposed to be alternatives. This is why you see some elites are underwhelming or doesn’t feel like an upgrade, like Dragonhunter and Tempest, respectively.

For me personally, when you buy a game, you are at 100% of the product.
100% of the game means vanilla + all expansions. Anything that goes over the 100% bar, like buying OP weapons, stats, and other unfair stuff from gemshop which can be only bought by using real money is pay to win.

The best example is a browsergame called wartune. A single pay to win player can kill whole guilds alone, without the need of skill, even the autoatk will suffice.

Pay to win means, you don’t need SKILL to win. You pay-to-win matches, tourneys etc.
without troubles, like it already says in the naming sense.

In gw2, no matter how much you pay, be it for expansion, gemshop etc., it won’t make you win over better players. More skilled players will always outplay you, even if you throw 1k € at them. That’s why it is NOT pay to win, no matter how you turn it around.

And about vertical progression, I think that having a vertical progression is more pay to win than not having one. Or do you think that a level 70 player can beat a level 100 player ? I’d rather fight against someone who has more variation in builds, than someone who is 30 levels above me.

In your sense of logic, it is NOT pay to win if your level 100 and the other players are level 70. But it is a pay to win if all are level 70 and one side having more variation in build ? So your 100% product is: All on the same level. Expansion = 120% = Pay to win ?

Excuse me if there are some misunderstanding, but I don’t really get it.

sephiroth.4217:

Is HoT pay to win?

No. You just pay. You win nothing. You may have fun or not, that’s all.

Its like saying any single player, buy once game, on steam is pay to win, because I cant win if I don’t buy the game, because I cant play it.

Totally different concept from actual paying to win games, which usually pit big spender “whales” against eachother in a bottomless spending pit.

In a pay to win game youll get your butt handed to you by a guy who spent a few hundred more than you, regardless of your baseline amount spent. For instance, these games are typically set up to where paying $100 youll beat any non spending player, but will get stomped by the guy who spent $250, and he will get stomped by the guy who spent $500, and it just keeps going. Youll have people spending $5000 to be top of the game and theres always that one guy (probably employee account) who seems to spend unlimited money (keeps the big spenders buying to have someone better than them) This is why some f2p games that actually are pay to win youll have people stating they spent $2000-$10000 on the game.

So with HOT your spending money on the content, which allows you to do more stuff. However I don’t think the new classes/specializations will make you stronger, since level cap remains the same and the standard class specializations are suppose to be competitive regardless, since lv80 is lv80 and they wont raise level cap.

i would be fine with more power creep happening in HoT. All the new stuff i tested feels… average at best, dont know if i will even use it. and why do people think guild wars 2 is f2p? ok, now the base game is, but it was always b2p (buy to play) and that they charge 50 bucks after 3 years with lots of free content for a lot of more content, including future living story upgrades i can hardly see as greedy or forcing you to buy anything. as numerous people have stated: pay to win is if u have to pay money to be able to compete with other players around. and even if the new specs would be so op you couldnt go around them, i would be totally ok with that. heck, im glad if i can get like a week of entertainment out of most actual games. why do people want to get everything for free all the time? it takes a lot of work and money to make and keep running a game like this.

The new specializations will not only be a visual change, along will come modifications in status with traits and powerful new skills, paying for it it is the same or even worse to pay for a premium buff or a premium weapon, the one who has paid will be able to use skills against you which you will only have access paying, i already played many free games and already saw many abusive cash stores but it’s the first time i see a game charging real money for skills, i paid for this game when it launched and i spent money with gems not much but i spent… i do not intend to pay the price of a full game in an expansion and i find it disrespectful to those who bought the game and spent money on cash during these years, I even understand that the Revenant is part of the expansion I’m not complaining about it, but it’s ridiculous to have to pay for new skills in characters we already have, after seeing the beta I have no doubt that the paid specializations will unbalance the game.

speedyfox.5178:

The new specializations will not only be a visual change, along will come modifications in status with traits and powerful new skills, paying for it it is the same or even worse to pay for a premium buff or a premium weapon, the one who has paid will be able to use skills against you which you will only have access paying, i already played many free games and already saw many abusive cash stores but it’s the first time i see a game charging real money for skills, i paid for this game when it launched and i spent money with gems not much but i spent… i do not intend to pay the price of a full game in an expansion and i find it disrespectful to those who bought the game and spent money on cash during these years, I even understand that the Revenant is part of the expansion I’m not complaining about it, but it’s ridiculous to have to pay for new skills in characters we already have, after seeing the beta I have no doubt that the paid specializations will unbalance the game.

Didn’t Guild Wars 1 have new professions with new skills and new skills for old professions in its campaigns? Those chars could cross over to the old lands with their new skills.

Have you even played other expansions from other games? Are you going to say that none of them gave expansion owners new abilities?

http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Warcraft:_Warlords_of_Draenor_class_changes
Bonus system added that rewards players with powerful perks as they level up to the new cap. At every level from 91 to 100, characters will earn a major permanent boost to one of their their key spells and abilities (e.g. a Fire mage might earn a +50% damage boost to [Pyroblast] or +30% boost to [Scorch]). Players will also unlock a new talent tier once they’ve achieved level 100, rewarding each class with three potent new abilities to choose from

Sounds like new abilities or skills to me to me that you only get if you buy the expansion.

You should try a real pay to win game. I’ve played them. No fun getting stomped by much more powerful enemies with no way of competing.

uhohhotdog.3598:

You should try a real pay to win game. I’ve played them. No fun getting stomped by much more powerful enemies with no way of competing.

I want to see you trying to kill a reaper with a necromancer or daredevil with a thief for example, they have everything you have and even more, they are not new professions they are the old professions improved, they’re going to have new ways to fight back and kill you.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Didn’t Guild Wars 1 have new professions with new skills and new skills for old professions in its campaigns? Those chars could cross over to the old lands with their new skills.

Have you even played other expansions from other games? Are you going to say that none of them gave expansion owners new abilities?

http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Warcraft:_Warlords_of_Draenor_class_changes
Bonus system added that rewards players with powerful perks as they level up to the new cap. At every level from 91 to 100, characters will earn a major permanent boost to one of their their key spells and abilities (e.g. a Fire mage might earn a +50% damage boost to [Pyroblast] or +30% boost to [Scorch]). Players will also unlock a new talent tier once they’ve achieved level 100, rewarding each class with three potent new abilities to choose from

Sounds like new abilities or skills to me to me that you only get if you buy the expansion.

i dont like wow, and I do not intend to play it, I think it is exploitation you have to buy the game, pay a monthly fee and still pay more to get access to more content, so I bought GW2, I was willing to pay for an expansion, new maps, new bosses, new equipment, but I never imagined that they would charge more money to take advantage in PVP if you think that the specializations will not give any advantage then you are very naive, equipment does not make difference in PVP, but skills and traits i assure you that makes, I paid for the base game and I’m complaining … I imagine when the free players realize that the HoT players have certain advantages in pvp …

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Didn’t Guild Wars 1 have new professions with new skills and new skills for old professions in its campaigns? Those chars could cross over to the old lands with their new skills.

Have you even played other expansions from other games? Are you going to say that none of them gave expansion owners new abilities?

http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Warcraft:_Warlords_of_Draenor_class_changes
Bonus system added that rewards players with powerful perks as they level up to the new cap. At every level from 91 to 100, characters will earn a major permanent boost to one of their their key spells and abilities (e.g. a Fire mage might earn a +50% damage boost to [Pyroblast] or +30% boost to [Scorch]). Players will also unlock a new talent tier once they’ve achieved level 100, rewarding each class with three potent new abilities to choose from

Sounds like new abilities or skills to me to me that you only get if you buy the expansion.

i dont like wow, and I do not intend to play it, I think it is exploitation you have to buy the game, pay a monthly fee and still pay more to get access to more content, so I bought GW2, I was willing to pay for an expansion, new maps, new bosses, new equipment, but I never imagined that they would charge more money to take advantage in PVP if you think that the specializations will not give you any advantage then you are very naive.

Whether you did or would play WoW is irrelevant. You said it’s the first time i see a game charging real money for skills. I was pointing out its very easy to find where games have new skills or abilities with the expansions. I guess you didn’t play Guild Wars 1 either. That had many new skills for old professions with each campaign.

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters.
Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem: Rise of the Reaver, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

Well, I think you’re simplifying things slightly. In WoW, at the very least, you get the new skills free because they frequently overhaul the skill system completely, and the old skills simply have ceased to exist.
You certainly do have to buy the expansion in order to play the new classes, and I’m inclined to view the new specs in the same light – as an expansion to the base profession. Which you have to own the expansion to access.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters.
Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

Oh look! Some games that you like that have pay models you enjoy more!

Calling GW2 pay to win is laughable. Hahahahaha.

Also Expecting balance out of a beta weekend where some classes were stronger, some weaker is really weird. Classes that are weaker get brought up, stronger classes toned down. This is called a MMORPG.

I own the beta yet never played a beta character and did pvp all weekend winning most of my games using standard specs. I dont see the problem. Learning to deal with new specs is no different then learning to deal with a new hero or champion in any popular moba. Pretty standard practice.

Also tons of MMO’s have charged for expansions in the past. If any mmo deserves to charge for content it’s Gw2.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels or both. It’s the core of an expansion that your character is “expanded upon” and doesn’t remain static.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

no, it isn’t. Pay-to-win is more like having an ingame-shop with items that give you big advanteges in the game, like stats that are much better for example.
GW2 HoT is just pay-to-play. But that was always the case with expansions.

speedyfox.5178:

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

those are always just one trait line and it’s not like they garant an instant win.
Yes, you need to buy HoT if you want to play the things that are part of expansion, but that’s usual the case with expansions, so that doesn’t make it p2w at all. GW2 was, until recently, also pay-to-play, just that you need to buy the game, doesn’t mean it’s p2w.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

ALL MMO expansions, f2p or b2p, have increased abilities/skills/levels on their chars. The f2p ones don’t charge you but the games where you have to buy the expansions do. If you were playing f2p games, then no, you didn’t get charged, because they get their money another way. This is a b2p game. Its business model is, you must buy the expansion to get the new abilities.

Oreithyia.3064:

no, it isn’t. Pay-to-win is more like having an ingame-shop with items that give you big advanteges in the game, like stats that are much better for example.
GW2 HoT is just pay-to-play. But that was always the case with expansions.

yes it is P2W, the new skills and traits give various status of advantage for those who pay for them.

speedyfox.5178:

Oreithyia.3064:

no, it isn’t. Pay-to-win is more like having an ingame-shop with items that give you big advanteges in the game, like stats that are much better for example.
GW2 HoT is just pay-to-play. But that was always the case with expansions.

yes it is P2W, the new skills and traits give various status of advantage for those who pay for them.

Different games have different business models. You’re obviously used to one type, but this is a different type. The type you’re used to gets most of its money from their cash shop (If they give you free expansions and have no subscriptions, they have to get their money from somewhere). The gw business model gets most of its money from selling the game and expansions. Not so much from the gem store. They tried the no paid expansion way for 3 years. It didn’t work so now they are returning to the old Guild Wars 1 paid expansion model that they used for many years on that, their previous game.

And that’s the way it’s going to be. If you are uncomfortable with buying the expansion, then you might be happier with a game that has a business model that suits you better.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

ALL MMO expansions, f2p or b2p, have increased abilities/skills/levels on their chars. The f2p ones don’t charge you but the games where you have to buy the expansions do. If you were playing f2p games, then no, you didn’t get charged, because they get their money another way. This is a b2p game. Its business model is, you must buy the expansion to get the new abilities.

then the GW2 community will have one player less, and as soon as the F2P players find out even less, because I refuse to pay to get advantage over the others. as I said I accept to pay to get access to new maps, new armor, weapons and other things, but pay to get advantage is unfair, pay to get access to skills and traits is unfair, not only to the F2Players, but also with those who do not intend to buy the Expansion.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

ALL MMO expansions, f2p or b2p, have increased abilities/skills/levels on their chars. The f2p ones don’t charge you but the games where you have to buy the expansions do. If you were playing f2p games, then no, you didn’t get charged, because they get their money another way. This is a b2p game. Its business model is, you must buy the expansion to get the new abilities.

then the GW2 community will have one player less, and as soon as the F2P players find out even less, because I refuse to pay to get advantage over the others. as I said I accept to pay to get access to new maps, new armor, weapons and other things, but pay to get advantage is unfair, pay to get access to skills and traits is unfair, not only to the F2Players, but also with those who do not intend to buy the Expansion.

Well, goodbye. Have fun in your f2p game then.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

ALL MMO expansions, f2p or b2p, have increased abilities/skills/levels on their chars. The f2p ones don’t charge you but the games where you have to buy the expansions do. If you were playing f2p games, then no, you didn’t get charged, because they get their money another way. This is a b2p game. Its business model is, you must buy the expansion to get the new abilities.

then the GW2 community will have one player less, and as soon as the F2P players find out even less, because I refuse to pay to get advantage over the others. as I said I accept to pay to get access to new maps, new armor, weapons and other things, but pay to get advantage is unfair, pay to get access to skills and traits is unfair, not only to the F2Players, but also with those who do not intend to buy the Expansion.

Can I have your stuff?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

speedyfox.5178:

Algreg.3629:

yes. like every game you can buy is. You cannot win it if you don´t buy it.

seriously, this place is on the fast train through the rabbit hole…

I bought the game and want to play with equality, I’m complaining about having to pay for new skills it will unbalance the game and will transform the game in P2W, this was not the proposal of the game when it was released and remained so for 3 years,
now I feel deceived…

You’ve said you’ve played games before yet the concept of espansions having new skills is new to you. Perhaps you can tell us what MMOs you’ve played where the expansion did not make the characters stronger in some way, by increased levels or new skills or stronger old skills.

on the contrary, every game I played already launched expansions but never charged money for skills or new characters, some of which previously had monthly fees are now free to play and continue to release expansions without charging money for maps, skills and characters, of them all the one who had the most abusive cash was Rohan and for this reason i stopped playing it

Lineage 2, Aion, RF Online, Requiem, R.O.H.A.N, TERA Online

these are the ones I remember now.

all expansions, f2p or buy to play, have new skills or levels.

but do not charge for it, I said I’ve never seen a game charging for skills, and that’s what ArenaNet is doing, for all I know so far to use the new specializations (reaper, berserker, daredevil, Chronomancer…) you have to buy the expansion HoT, or am I wrong?

ALL MMO expansions, f2p or b2p, have increased abilities/skills/levels on their chars. The f2p ones don’t charge you but the games where you have to buy the expansions do. If you were playing f2p games, then no, you didn’t get charged, because they get their money another way. This is a b2p game. Its business model is, you must buy the expansion to get the new abilities.

then the GW2 community will have one player less, and as soon as the F2P players find out even less, because I refuse to pay to get advantage over the others. as I said I accept to pay to get access to new maps, new armor, weapons and other things, but pay to get advantage is unfair, pay to get access to skills and traits is unfair, not only to the F2Players, but also with those who do not intend to buy the Expansion.

Well, goodbye. Have fun in your f2p game then.

I think I’ll go back to the TERA atleast all people are treated as equal there and what counts is the ability not the money and the most abusive cash they sell are outfits , shame that I can not ask for a refund for the Game and the cash spent for 3 years…

Nothing is p2w in gw2. You can earn everything with gold.

I would like to leave my last considerations on this topic, those who purchase the HoT expansion will have access to at least 10 new skills (10 new ways to deal damage) 5 new weapon skills and 5 new utility skill and will also have access to at least 12 new traits every new trait can change in many ways how your skills works, it can reduce the recharging time of skills or add new skills effects not only in new skills but the old skills too, or change your status adding power, precision, ferocity, etc. I dont know how this can not be an advantage, from my point of view this is not just an advantage it is a great advantage that will create a great abyss between paying players and not paying players, if providing new and efficient ways of killing only to paying players is no advantage so I dont know what is, for the one who is reading this message sorry for the long text I hope you understand what I’m saying thank you.

Every other mmo raises the lvl cap with it’s expansion making anyone who buys the expansion 10 times stronger then someone who doesn’t, yet you never hear anyone mention pay to win, people think it’s normal. GW2 doesn’t do this, for very good reason, and then it’s somehow ok to expect perfect balance, because otherwise the game is pay to win?
Who are we kidding here?

Fox.3469:

Every other mmo raises the lvl cap with it’s expansion making anyone who buys the expansion 10 times stronger then someone who doesn’t, yet you never hear anyone mention pay to win, people think it’s normal. GW2 doesn’t do this, for very good reason, and then it’s somehow ok to expect perfect balance, because otherwise the game is pay to win?
Who are we kidding here?

It appears Speedyfox has only played free to play games before where the expansion was given to him for free. He’s never played any of the subscription or buy to play games where the player has to buy the expansion. He thinks what he is used to is the normal state of affairs for MMOs.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Fox.3469:

Every other mmo raises the lvl cap with it’s expansion making anyone who buys the expansion 10 times stronger then someone who doesn’t, yet you never hear anyone mention pay to win, people think it’s normal. GW2 doesn’t do this, for very good reason, and then it’s somehow ok to expect perfect balance, because otherwise the game is pay to win?
Who are we kidding here?

It appears Speedyfox has only played free to play games before where the expansion was given to him for free. He’s never played any of the subscription or buy to play games where the player has to buy the expansion. He thinks what he is used to is the normal state of affairs for MMOs.

Yes i have never bought a game in which I have to pay to be something, if you are used to be exploited i cant do anything for you but I do not accept that, the first thing I see in a game is if I can have access to everything with my own effort, if not I go to another game, afterward I open my wallet, I do not know what it was like in GW1 or any other B2P game and it does not interest me, the purpose of GW2 was exactly that and has been for three years.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Fox.3469:

Every other mmo raises the lvl cap with it’s expansion making anyone who buys the expansion 10 times stronger then someone who doesn’t, yet you never hear anyone mention pay to win, people think it’s normal. GW2 doesn’t do this, for very good reason, and then it’s somehow ok to expect perfect balance, because otherwise the game is pay to win?
Who are we kidding here?

It appears Speedyfox has only played free to play games before where the expansion was given to him for free. He’s never played any of the subscription or buy to play games where the player has to buy the expansion. He thinks what he is used to is the normal state of affairs for MMOs.

Yes i have never bought a game in which I have to pay to be something, if you are used to be exploited i cant do anything for you but I do not accept that, the first thing I see in a game is if I can have access to everything with my own effort, if not I go to another game, afterward I open my wallet, I do not know what it was like in GW1 or any other B2P game and it does not interest me, the purpose of GW2 was exactly that and has been for three years.

If spending any money at all on hobbies is being “exploited” (howd you get a computer to type this on anyway?), youre in the wrong game. Its unfortunate that they are advertising it as F2P to try to get new players (even though it says directly you cant access the whole game for free, but im sure people dont read that), but thats not how the full game has ever or will ever work.

Anyway, not to be rude, but dont let the door hit you on your way back to runescape or candy crush or whatever you play next.

speedyfox.5178:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Fox.3469:

Every other mmo raises the lvl cap with it’s expansion making anyone who buys the expansion 10 times stronger then someone who doesn’t, yet you never hear anyone mention pay to win, people think it’s normal. GW2 doesn’t do this, for very good reason, and then it’s somehow ok to expect perfect balance, because otherwise the game is pay to win?
Who are we kidding here?

It appears Speedyfox has only played free to play games before where the expansion was given to him for free. He’s never played any of the subscription or buy to play games where the player has to buy the expansion. He thinks what he is used to is the normal state of affairs for MMOs.

Yes i have never bought a game in which I have to pay to be something, if you are used to be exploited i cant do anything for you but I do not accept that, the first thing I see in a game is if I can have access to everything with my own effort, if not I go to another game, afterward I open my wallet, I do not know what it was like in GW1 or any other B2P game and it does not interest me, the purpose of GW2 was exactly that and has been for three years.

No the purpose of GW2 was to be a buy-to-play game. As in you buy the game you play it (as opposed to pay-to-play where you have to pay a subscription). Expansions are designed to be purchased and add on to that experience. The new elite specs and skills are not meant to be more powerful than the base classes (though they may seem that way at the moment but remember they are currently in BETA) but are supposed to offer a different way to play that class.

You continually state that these give you an advantage but seem to forget that to use those things you have to give up something from the base spec. If I want to run Scrapper on my Engineer I have to give up something else (explosives, firearms or alchemy) and by doing this it changes my build to something different. It doesn’t add to or improve that build.

I understand that you’ve only played F2P games which have different monetization systems and appreciate that, but if you feel that paying for an expansion is somehow a P2W scheme then I’d advise you move away from B2P MMO’s (and really stay away from P2P ones).

Best of luck in your future gaming endeavours.

Its b2p, not p2w because you are not supposed to stay free forever (f2p gw its just the best trial that exists), if you never intend to buy HoT or any other expansion that launch just quit the game.

And speedyfox you say that games like TERA are a lot more fair, it just show how ignorant you are. In TERA if you dont spend money its just almost impossible to get an item to +15, and a +15 item just boost your damage by an insane margin, so yeah not p2w at all, and you can spend real money to buy cash itens sell, and buy all the top itens, really fair.

GW2 just follow GW1 bussines model, its by far the less p2w game out there. All other you need to pay a monthly fee or if its f2p there dozen of things you can spend cash that boost you ( premiun account its the most common) all the things you dont see here. So just quit gw2, its not f2p anyway, not p2w, its just b2p as it always has been

So any game that releases an expansion is now pay 2 win? Other games with xpacs add classes, abilities and even levels. Adding such things is typical for any xpac. In GW2 we are lucky in the fact that we don’t get levels, we get masteries. The paranoia about p2w has gone too far now.

P2LG.
Pay to look good.