Guild Wars 2

I’m probably late to this, but I recently got the expansion and have been thinking about it for a few days.

So one of the things I really enjoyed about Guild Wars 2 were the variety of play and sheer number of things to do. You can explore, gather resources and take part in occasional events. You can head to Silverwastes or Orr and spend an hour in a big group meta-event with tougher mobs. There were dungeons, fractals, larger PvP in WvW, and smaller competitive challenges in PvP. I was excited to see what HoT would add.

Heart of Thorns isn’t really about addition, though. It excises almost all of that variety in favor of a few tough meta-event maps that favor group play, hitting that same note throughout all of the expansion I’ve seen thus far. Gliding is nice, and new masteries are welcome, but the part that was most exciting was simply having new stuff to do. It’s hard not to come away from this addition with the firm notion that Anet’s new vision of this game going forward is very different from what attracted many different people to it in the first place. Now, it’s meta-events or the raid. The smorgasbord of options has been pared down to make room for a somewhat narrower multiplayer action title. At this point, I’ve pretty much stopped even going to the new maps entirely.

Is this what we can expect from now on?

The metas are a big part of it, but there are other things as well.

• Adventures were added, and are solo
• Raids were added
• Many changes to wvw were made at the same time as HoT (though not HoT-dependent)
• Collections were added, try making one of the new legendaries, I’m on Astralaria III and it’s a process
• A new class and 8 specializations (revenant is not well developed vs. herald…) added a lot of variety in builds if you’re not obsessed with meta playstyle

Once you get a feel for gliding, you will hate being without it in places like wvw or dungeons where it can’t be used.

HoT also wasn’t the end or epitome of development as fractals were just overhauled, wvw is in the process of being overhauled and LW3 episode 1 came out. The map for LW3, bloodstone fen, is quite fun to just cruise around on even with no destination in mind.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Unlikely given how ANet has expressed that they ‘learned from their mistakes’ with HoT. Also, Bloodfen is a drastic step from the usual maps that started with Silverwastes and continued hardcore with Heart of Thorns.

We’ll see with new maps in Living World and with the expansion. But for now, I’m going to say future content will be casual and solo-friendly in the extreme.

It took Heart of Thorns to make ANet realize—once again—who the core audience is.

That’s the trouble with listening to the vocal minority on issues. A lot of the concepts shipped with HoT were things people kept asking for, only for a lot of people to realize those weren’t the additions they really wanted.

That said, a lot of the HoT content has been modified to remove the tedious parts. There are still challenging parts, but most of the bang-your-head-on-the-wall items have changed. Except mastery points behind adventures, those still exist. LW3 has added a few of those, though, so that helps.

I certainly hope the next expansion swings a bit more toward the core game style . I’d like to see a bit of a middle ground between HoT maps and core. I’d rather not see any or at least much less of the vertical maps and less annoying mob density like we see in HoT. Just my opinion.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Unlikely given how ANet has expressed that they ‘learned from their mistakes’ with HoT. Also, Bloodfen is a drastic step from the usual maps that started with Silverwastes and continued hardcore with Heart of Thorns.

We’ll see with new maps in Living World and with the expansion. But for now, I’m going to say future content will be casual and solo-friendly in the extreme.

It took Heart of Thorns to make ANet realize—once again—who the core audience is.

I know where you stand on HoT in general, but am I to understand that you consider bloodstone fen an improvement over the other HoT maps? If so, I’m just curious what worked for you there that didn’t in the original jungle maps?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

The need for a zerg to pretty much progress and succeed in the overall map. Please note the many topics that say progression is impossible now that said map is empty.

With Bloodstone Fen, you can progress regardless if you’re the only person on the map or if a zerg is killing everything. Failure for events isn’t so brutally punishing. Key areas are not blocked from mapping or exploration if a certain criteria is not met. Certain tools are not required to farm nodes in that map. Multiple groups spread out to complete an event isn’t required in multiple locations. Finding a location isn’t crazy confusing or frustrating. Gaining access to a location doesn’t require a specific skill beyond basic gliding or mushroom hopping. Gaining access to a mastery point doesn’t require a specific mastery unlock. Nothing is locked behind a kitten-near impossible adventure. No adventures . . . period. No gather ‘this amount of ’X’ to progress an event. No waypoint is ever contested because of failure to ‘save it’ or reclaim it from said targets. No waypoint is contested . . . ever.

Just to start. . . .

I’ve seen these topics, about impossible progression. It’s flat out wrong. People want to make progress playing the way they always played, and that they probably can’t do. In MMOs the name of the game is adaptation. If you can’t adapt, you’ll not get very far.

There are topics that say you can’t beat a necro in PvP ,but I beat necros in PvP all the time. Just because many topics exist that say something doesn’t really mean that much.

On topic: I don’t think HoT is the future for Guild Wars 2. While it works for one segment of the playerbase, you’d have to be blind to not see that it didn’t hit home with many other segments of the playerbase.

HoT has some glaring issues, some of which were corrected in the April patch, but many of which weren’t.

At the end of the day, I can’t really believe Anet will make another HoT after the way HOT has been received.

theslynx.1596:

I’m probably late to this, but I recently got the expansion and have been thinking about it for a few days.

So one of the things I really enjoyed about Guild Wars 2 were the variety of play and sheer number of things to do. You can explore, gather resources and take part in occasional events. You can head to Silverwastes or Orr and spend an hour in a big group meta-event with tougher mobs. There were dungeons, fractals, larger PvP in WvW, and smaller competitive challenges in PvP. I was excited to see what HoT would add.

Heart of Thorns isn’t really about addition, though. It excises almost all of that variety in favor of a few tough meta-event maps that favor group play, hitting that same note throughout all of the expansion I’ve seen thus far. Gliding is nice, and new masteries are welcome, but the part that was most exciting was simply having new stuff to do. It’s hard not to come away from this addition with the firm notion that Anet’s new vision of this game going forward is very different from what attracted many different people to it in the first place. Now, it’s meta-events or the raid. The smorgasbord of options has been pared down to make room for a somewhat narrower multiplayer action title. At this point, I’ve pretty much stopped even going to the new maps entirely.

Is this what we can expect from now on?

Yea, I’m with you on this. I really enjoyed core Tyria – being able to just roam solo gathering or getting HP or doing map completion without the constant pressure of jumping or huge volume of nasty mobs or gliding. Before HoT I really disliked Orr because of the mob issue but at least I didn’t have to worry about vertical strategy in addition to density of lethal mobs.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

The need for a zerg to pretty much progress and succeed in the overall map. Please note the many topics that say progression is impossible now that said map is empty.

With Bloodstone Fen, you can progress regardless if you’re the only person on the map or if a zerg is killing everything. Failure for events isn’t so brutally punishing. Key areas are not blocked from mapping or exploration if a certain criteria is not met. Certain tools are not required to farm nodes in that map. Multiple groups spread out to complete an event isn’t required in multiple locations. Finding a location isn’t crazy confusing or frustrating. Gaining access to a location doesn’t require a specific skill beyond basic gliding or mushroom hopping. Gaining access to a mastery point doesn’t require a specific mastery unlock. Nothing is locked behind a kitten-near impossible adventure. No adventures . . . period. No gather ‘this amount of ’X’ to progress an event. No waypoint is ever contested because of failure to ‘save it’ or reclaim it from said targets. No waypoint is contested . . . ever.

Just to start. . . .

Being rather new to the game, I’m still getting a feel for some of these differences in design. But I think I can agree that I prefer the BF event structure to the other HoT maps. I enjoy the event cycle in those maps, but it seems overly restrictive. BF is nice in the sense that I can just go there and start playing. I never have to hit LFG and look for a map that’s actually running the events. So, I’m with you there.

On some of the other issues you bring up I disagree. Waypoints are contested in the core game as well. The difference is that you can walk in a straight line to your objective. But if you know your way around, the very “worst” maps (TD!) are actually much quicker to navigate around contested WPs than core maps were. Your issue here has more to do with the fact that you never learned how to get around on these maps (as evidenced by the fact that you find it difficult to get around).

I also disagree with your points on the mastery system. Poison mastery is ONLY required for 100% map completion (and only on half of the maps, as I recall?). I don’t consider that “critical”. You only need map completion for what? Legendaries? Maybe some other collections? Otherwise you only truly “need” bounce mushrooms and updrafts. Everything else is 100% QoL, not critical in any sense of the word.

Thanks for clarifying. To sum up, I like being able to just zone into a map and play without having to look for an instance of the map full of players doing what I want to do. BF is a clear improvement in that sense. And while I didn’t mention it, BF is also a pleasure to navigate.

Where I differ is in my perspective on the mastery system and exploration of HoT maps: I don’t find the mastery system overly restrictive in terms of exploration and I don’t feel the HoT maps are unnecessarily difficult to navigate once you spend the time to learn them (which again, is an aspect of these maps that I very much enjoy!).

Apologies for making the assumption. I didn’t realize you were speaking for other people. Incidentally, I had noticed that plenty of other players find the maps confusing. That was clearly intended. It’s a shame it wasn’t universally well-received, but some players (like me!) enjoy that aspect of HoT more than anything else. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the merits of that design.

I think that TD is a horribly confusing map. Don’t get me wrong, I still get lost sometimes in VB trying to get to outposts and certain parts of the canopy during the daytime but its only because I don’t visit those places as much as I should. TD though I can walk to a HP, and 10 min later when there is actually a party willing to help with it I can’t find my way back. I am always getting lost on that map.

As for the poison mastery, I do know why people hated content being “gated” behind it and I share that feeling. But at the same time now that its nerfed it feels like a useless mastery that is only used for map completion, which I also hate. Hopefully ANet can avoid introducing any masteries like this again, where it either creates an artificial gate to accessing various key parts of maps or its only used for map completion and nothing else.

OriOri.8724:

I think that TD is a horribly confusing map. Don’t get me wrong, I still get lost sometimes in VB trying to get to outposts and certain parts of the canopy during the daytime but its only because I don’t visit those places as much as I should. TD though I can walk to a HP, and 10 min later when there is actually a party willing to help with it I can’t find my way back. I am always getting lost on that map.

As for the poison mastery, I do know why people hated content being “gated” behind it and I share that feeling. But at the same time now that its nerfed it feels like a useless mastery that is only used for map completion, which I also hate. Hopefully ANet can avoid introducing any masteries like this again, where it either creates an artificial gate to accessing various key parts of maps or its only used for map completion and nothing else.

Poison mastery is not just for map completion. There are events that you need to do in Dragonstand during the meta that require poison mastery to complete. They give mastery points.

I agree with the general opinion here that Bloodstone Fen is a bit better than other HoT maps so far, but it’s still vastly different from the tone and feel of most open world maps.

As for ‘explorability,’ it is still somewhat frustrating in that you do need some unlocks to make the most of it, and it seems to be designed around spending a few hours becoming familiar with it before it becomes simple to traverse, as if the end goal is for players to spend gobs of time on a single map rather than some time on many. There’s also an unaddressed tension between the vertical design of the maps and the game’s map/mini-map functions, which don’t handle these things well.

I don’t know. I’m really disappointed by Heart of Thorns as a whole and I worry this is the beginning of the end for Anet producing a variety of enjoyable content, including casual, relaxing stuff.

the only thing i dissapointed from HoT is that, it doesnt add many contents for its pricetag, the story are too short and seems rushed. frustrating map to navigate through(tangled depths) i barely touch adventure after I earn the mastery for it because they dont provide enough rewards for the effort, I hope that the new xpac doesnt only focus on lv 80 map, but also add mid-level zones .

theslynx.1596:

I agree with the general opinion here that Bloodstone Fen is a bit better than other HoT maps so far, but it’s still vastly different from the tone and feel of most open world maps.

As for ‘explorability,’ it is still somewhat frustrating in that you do need some unlocks to make the most of it, and it seems to be designed around spending a few hours becoming familiar with it before it becomes simple to traverse, as if the end goal is for players to spend gobs of time on a single map rather than some time on many. There’s also an unaddressed tension between the vertical design of the maps and the game’s map/mini-map functions, which don’t handle these things well.

I don’t know. I’m really disappointed by Heart of Thorns as a whole and I worry this is the beginning of the end for Anet producing a variety of enjoyable content, including casual, relaxing stuff.

I hope they can find a way to make future maps palatable to more players. But it will be very difficult to reconcile the preferences of players like yourself with those of us who genuinely enjoy HoT-style content.

Personally, I find the core maps boring. Exploration (in the HoT sense of the word!) is non-existent, the combat is uninspired, and although the maps are visually striking across the board, I can’t say that many of the core maps have a distinctive “feel” (to me) the way each HoT map does. There also tends to be a lot less going on in most of the maps event-wise, likely due to the use of “hearts”.

Not that HoT is perfect. I prefer the way I can zone into BF and just start playing. Finding a “meta map” via LFG feels like something I shouldn’t have to do. I straight up HATE adventures, too!

So what can we do to meet in the middle? If it were up to me, I could definitely support improvements to the map system to better support vertical maps. I could also compromise on mob density and/or difficulty. BF seems easier that way than the other maps, but I’m not having any less fun taking on hordes of white mantle!

AliamRationem.5172:

I hope they can find a way to make future maps palatable to more players. But it will be very difficult to reconcile the preferences of players like yourself with those of us who genuinely enjoy HoT-style content.

I agree. I think that presenting both kinds of content – either in the same zone or different zones presented at the same time, or alternating, could be the answer. And offering players who prefer less “platform-ish” game play the same rewards from a more traditional map but maybe requiring more time or some other means. This new direction of gating, and funneling play into a narrow direction is the polar opposite of the initial spirit of GW2 and extremely disappointing.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I certainly hope the next expansion swings a bit more toward the core game style . I’d like to see a bit of a middle ground between HoT maps and core. I’d rather not see any or at least much less of the vertical maps and less annoying mob density like we see in HoT. Just my opinion.

I hope the next expansion is more like the core game, too. I won’t purchase HoT, even when it was discounted, because of the points in this thread, and once purchased, it’s my understanding I’ll be forced to do my dailies there. I don’t PvP at all- only do open world content, so I am already limited in what I can do.

I just wish I could get HoT Masteries without being forced into HoT zones. I hope the next expansion will let us totally bypass those zones.

Nikal.4921:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I certainly hope the next expansion swings a bit more toward the core game style . I’d like to see a bit of a middle ground between HoT maps and core. I’d rather not see any or at least much less of the vertical maps and less annoying mob density like we see in HoT. Just my opinion.

I hope the next expansion is more like the core game, too. I won’t purchase HoT, even when it was discounted, because of the points in this thread, and once purchased, it’s my understanding I’ll be forced to do my dailies there. I don’t PvP at all- only do open world content, so I am already limited in what I can do.

I just wish I could get HoT Masteries without being forced into HoT zones. I hope the next expansion will let us totally bypass those zones.

Wow whereever you have been getting information from has been misleading you.

To start with, by far most if not all of the worst problems with HoT were already addressed in the April patch, its already far far better than it used to be.

Second, there are always 4 PvE dailies available, only one of which is ever sometimes in a HoT zone. Most days I don’t even see a daily for a HoT zone. So this isn’t an issue. Even if it was, you can always dip into WvW and spedn 25 badges, kill a sentry or a yak or cap a ruin on a BL. None of those involve fighting other players and between the four of them, at least one of them is always available as a WvW daily.

Its a good expansion, and it was definitely worth the price it was at when it was on sale.

OriOri.8724:

Nikal.4921:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I certainly hope the next expansion swings a bit more toward the core game style . I’d like to see a bit of a middle ground between HoT maps and core. I’d rather not see any or at least much less of the vertical maps and less annoying mob density like we see in HoT. Just my opinion.

I hope the next expansion is more like the core game, too. I won’t purchase HoT, even when it was discounted, because of the points in this thread, and once purchased, it’s my understanding I’ll be forced to do my dailies there. I don’t PvP at all- only do open world content, so I am already limited in what I can do.

I just wish I could get HoT Masteries without being forced into HoT zones. I hope the next expansion will let us totally bypass those zones.

Wow whereever you have been getting information from has been misleading you.

To start with, by far most if not all of the worst problems with HoT were already addressed in the April patch, its already far far better than it used to be.

Looking at the OP, what about HoT has been made better than it used to be?

Djinn.9245:

OriOri.8724:

Nikal.4921:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I certainly hope the next expansion swings a bit more toward the core game style . I’d like to see a bit of a middle ground between HoT maps and core. I’d rather not see any or at least much less of the vertical maps and less annoying mob density like we see in HoT. Just my opinion.

I hope the next expansion is more like the core game, too. I won’t purchase HoT, even when it was discounted, because of the points in this thread, and once purchased, it’s my understanding I’ll be forced to do my dailies there. I don’t PvP at all- only do open world content, so I am already limited in what I can do.

I just wish I could get HoT Masteries without being forced into HoT zones. I hope the next expansion will let us totally bypass those zones.

Wow whereever you have been getting information from has been misleading you.

To start with, by far most if not all of the worst problems with HoT were already addressed in the April patch, its already far far better than it used to be.

Looking at the OP, what about HoT has been made better than it used to be?

Depends on how you define better. Fractals, to me, are better. Much better. Far more accessible at entry level to casual players. The reward structure is better. Cliffside as a fractal is better. Snowblind as a fractal is better. The new fractal is fun. The way agony resistence is handled is much much better. So Fractals are better.

Gliding is obviously an improvement on not gliding. So getting around maps is better.

WvW is actually better now than it was before the patch in my opinion and yes, that is the opinion. There are a lot of cool things there that didn’t exist before. The reward track is a nice addition to it as well. Many of the people long term complaints from WvW players are being addressed, slowly but they’re being addressed.

Necromancers are better after the patch, considering how weak they were before hand. Rangers feel a lot better too with the addition of the druid spec, even if you don’t spec for healing. Rangers have more ways they can help their party now, which makes them more desirable.

Adding a third heavy profession is an improvement. The action camera is an improvement. A lot of people waited a long time for something like the action camera.

More than that the HOT maps offer something the core game really didn’t, more complex maps. You may not personally like more complex maps and that’s okay, but the design of the new maps is amazing. It’s fun to have a map that you have to think about, at least for me.

The ability to make precursors instead of just buying them is better for me as well. Complete autolooting is better. Not having to spam F is a godsend.

Some of the new commander markers are fantastic. They really help. The way guild missions are handled are better, for me at least. You can run them when you want without it costing you favor. I much prefer having puzzles and challenges instanced, btw. Much better to run, at least for my guild.

Obviously people who like raids are going to think the game is better too, even though I’m not one of them. There were a lot of changes that the expansion brought that makes the game better for some people. But not every change is going to be better for everyone.

But saying the expansion didn’t make anything better is probably something that you’ll find very few people by percentage would agree too…in my opinion.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Unlikely given how ANet has expressed that they ‘learned from their mistakes’ with HoT. Also, Bloodfen is a drastic step from the usual maps that started with Silverwastes and continued hardcore with Heart of Thorns.

We’ll see with new maps in Living World and with the expansion. But for now, I’m going to say future content will be casual and solo-friendly in the extreme.

It took Heart of Thorns to make ANet realize—once again—who the core audience is.

I hope so. Most of hot is bleah. I would have been ecstatic with more zones like what is in core Tyria (maybe we found a new continent) but they gave us something completely different. Even BF is not back to the original zones but it is getting there. My main want out of HOT was the elites …. then they went and locked them behind a grind.

I’d just like to correct this entire thread as much as I am in a Love Hate Bonding with Gw2.

THERE WAS NEVER ANY DIRECT CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT LESSON WAS LEARNED.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY DIRECT CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT LESSON WAS LEARNED.

All that was said was that, “A”, Lesson had been learned. There has been no factual statement as to explicitly what the specific lesson that was learned.

It could have been about sales.
It could have been about HoT.
It could have been about the Gemstore.
It could have been about what they mistook players wanted.
It could have been about the LACK of free accounts switching to paid accounts.
It could have been about how much an expansion pack really does for an MMO.
It could have been about a choice ArenaNet made independently in opposition to NcSoft’s advising.

It’s too dang bad that they never said what that lesson was.
This entire thread assumes that the lesson learned had anything to do with the painfully obvious to us…lack of universal reception. HoT therefore could and can still be the future of Guild Wars 2.

Taltevus.3289:

I’d just like to correct this entire thread as much as I am in a Love Hate Bonding with Gw2.

THERE WAS NEVER ANY DIRECT CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT LESSON WAS LEARNED.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY DIRECT CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT LESSON WAS LEARNED.

All that was said was that, “A”, Lesson had been learned. There has been no factual statement as to explicitly what the specific lesson that was learned.

It could have been about sales.
It could have been about HoT.
It could have been about the Gemstore.
It could have been about what they mistook players wanted.
It could have been about the LACK of free accounts switching to paid accounts.
It could have been about how much an expansion pack really does for an MMO.
It could have been about a choice ArenaNet made independently in opposition to NcSoft’s advising.

It’s too dang bad that they never said what that lesson was.
This entire thread assumes that the lesson learned had anything to do with the painfully obvious to us…lack of universal reception. HoT therefore could and can still be the future of Guild Wars 2.

This works both ways. There are a number of factors that stood in the way of HoT being well received over all. But people who like a specific type of play believe that not getting that specific type of play is “the” reason HoT didn’t do well, or a major reason. There’s no real evidence of that. There are probably a lot of reasons why HoT didn’t do as well as expected and much of it could simply be pricing and bad publicity.

Now, if it had changed and HoT was completely casual with open maps and another group of people gave it bad publicity because they didn’t get what they wanted, how do you know sales wouldn’t have been the same or worse?

Anet might or might not have learned the lesson. The question is, who really knows what the lesson actually is?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Also, the lack of a zerg to progress the map is absent. All things spotlighted within Heart of Thorns.

If you’re comparing it to DS, then yes, Bloodstone Fen seems definitely less zerg reliant (we “can’t” even attempt to low man DS). It feels, however, like it’s designed for half of the map population to gather and zerg (and probably call for more people thorugh taxis) whatever “interesting” thing that happens.
Honestly, I find VB, AB and TD ( excluding final meta events, maybe) way less zerg oriented than BF.

It is going to be pretty bad for people who buy into the game when the next expansions hits and have to do HoT with very low numbers because the rest are in whatever the new area is.

And I hope they have learnt that they need a variety of these meta maps and more layed back ones you can actually take a minute to look instead of having to be on the move most of the time. Plus that giving less in game armours. weapons (And things that should be in game rewards but are just cs skins) and cramming the CS with more stuff is not a good idea, either a healthy balance or you become a game like FW that at this moment is very empty on a server that used to be filled with players.

Drakz.7051:

It is going to be pretty bad for people who buy into the game when the next expansions hits and have to do HoT with very low numbers because the rest are in whatever the new area is.

And I hope they have learnt that they need a variety of these meta maps and more layed back ones you can actually take a minute to look instead of having to be on the move most of the time. Plus that giving less in game armours. weapons (And things that should be in game rewards but are just cs skins) and cramming the CS with more stuff is not a good idea, either a healthy balance or you become a game like FW that at this moment is very empty on a server that used to be filled with players.

This is already the main kicker. I’m trying to play through HoT content at the moment, and there’s already whole zones populated by a tiny number of players, making progress pretty much impossible.

I’m at the point of just focusing on the personal story points, and grinding the Mastery Points for Gliding and such out as I go. It’s rapidly turning into the exact opposite of fun.

But hey, at least the “hardcore” players with nothing but time on their hands get to enjoy it.

Highlord.7158:

Drakz.7051:

It is going to be pretty bad for people who buy into the game when the next expansions hits and have to do HoT with very low numbers because the rest are in whatever the new area is.

And I hope they have learnt that they need a variety of these meta maps and more layed back ones you can actually take a minute to look instead of having to be on the move most of the time. Plus that giving less in game armours. weapons (And things that should be in game rewards but are just cs skins) and cramming the CS with more stuff is not a good idea, either a healthy balance or you become a game like FW that at this moment is very empty on a server that used to be filled with players.

This is already the main kicker. I’m trying to play through HoT content at the moment, and there’s already whole zones populated by a tiny number of players, making progress pretty much impossible.

I’m at the point of just focusing on the personal story points, and grinding the Mastery Points for Gliding and such out as I go. It’s rapidly turning into the exact opposite of fun.

But hey, at least the “hardcore” players with nothing but time on their hands get to enjoy it.

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool and you will find plenty of full maps with people running events chain and metas several times per day.
HoT has been out almost a year now. If you still are short on content done on the expansion maps its either, because a) you didn’t bother and played different content, in which case its entirely your fault, or b) you are late to the party, in which case you have to accept the fact that player population always dimishes with time, oppose to when something is new and shiny, not to mention of the recent lw3 release and the new map, which drawn substencial part of the player base.

Considering the original OP: For me HoT was a great expansion. Oppose to most MMO’s, which gives more of the same with their expansions, Anet tried to do something differently and take the game in a different direction. If it was succesful or not is matter of perseption. Different people like different things. What once percieve, as a failure, another will perceive as a success. As such if HoT was a failure or not is highly subjicative. To people who possibly read this thread and have not made their mind yet, about wether to purchase it or not, let me just say this: Watch stream material, videos etc etc and form your own opinion. You will never know until you try it, dont let other people sway your opinion, because in the end its a matter of taste.

The positives I take from HoT:

I like gliding…a lot. All over Tyria basically.
I like trickier maps like VB and AB but not so much the two after. Still I like the general idea of a 3D approach to maps.
Storyline feels darker as it should considering what happens in it.
The elite specializations are cool, though the Necromancer one currently has left me rather underwhelmed, but Mesmer and Guardian I think are great. Can’t wait to get the next one really.

The adventures and more legendaries to grind for, the fractals and raid. Well, not for me, but the game does need to cater to more needs than mine. It makes me a casual player but that’s ok.

I think HoT improved GW2 significantly overall.

Gehenna.3625:

The positives I take from HoT:

I like gliding…a lot. All over Tyria basically.
I like trickier maps like VB and AB but not so much the two after. Still I like the general idea of a 3D approach to maps.
Storyline feels darker as it should considering what happens in it.
The elite specializations are cool, though the Necromancer one currently has left me rather underwhelmed, but Mesmer and Guardian I think are great. Can’t wait to get the next one really.

The adventures and more legendaries to grind for, the fractals and raid. Well, not for me, but the game does need to cater to more needs than mine. It makes me a casual player but that’s ok.

I think HoT improved GW2 significantly overall.

You should take a look at collections, because there are some collections that are relatively casual, even in HoT, particularly the mistward armor and the elite specialization weapons.

Blipp.5206:

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool

“Need to use the LFG tool” and “plenty of people playing HoT maps” are mutually exclusive. If there were ACTUALLY plenty of people, you wouldn’t need to use LFG.

Djinn.9245:

Blipp.5206:

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool

“Need to use the LFG tool” and “plenty of people playing HoT maps” are mutually exclusive. If there were ACTUALLY plenty of people, you wouldn’t need to use LFG.

This simply isn’t true. There are plenty of people doing HoT maps, but that doesn’t mean the mega server is working well enough to put them together.

And of course the other thing is that more people are playing the HoT maps as specific times as the meta approaches. It doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of people at other times, it just means they’re more scattered because the maps are complex.

I was in VB with a guy who said, there’s no one here. This map is dead.

I popped a tag at the event chain we were doing and in minutes there were 20 people with us.

It’s easy to believe maps are dead. But the way HoT maps are designed, they’re designed with enough complexity to make it less obvious that others are around.

Djinn.9245:

Blipp.5206:

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool

“Need to use the LFG tool” and “plenty of people playing HoT maps” are mutually exclusive. If there were ACTUALLY plenty of people, you wouldn’t need to use LFG.

Thats not really the case. LFG is a tool that lets you find people to do specific content. Every player goes to a certain map to do specific content – hp runs, map completion, event chains, meta event etc. It takes literally few clicks to open the lfg tool and browse through the different maps section to find groups. Why the so-called casuals are so opposed to that concept and insist that they should find full maps everytime and instantly they log in? The way the mega server function, chances are you will end up on empty maps at times. There is no way around that. That simply how this system works and imo it is way better then the player base be devided around different servers. LFG tool has been a thing way before HoT was introduced, so why suddenly it is such an issue now and such a blow to the casual players?
Perhaps you should try and utilize the game mechanics that are in place and find out that what you are stating is simply not that truth, mate.

Blipp.5206:

Highlord.7158:

Drakz.7051:

It is going to be pretty bad for people who buy into the game when the next expansions hits and have to do HoT with very low numbers because the rest are in whatever the new area is.

And I hope they have learnt that they need a variety of these meta maps and more layed back ones you can actually take a minute to look instead of having to be on the move most of the time. Plus that giving less in game armours. weapons (And things that should be in game rewards but are just cs skins) and cramming the CS with more stuff is not a good idea, either a healthy balance or you become a game like FW that at this moment is very empty on a server that used to be filled with players.

This is already the main kicker. I’m trying to play through HoT content at the moment, and there’s already whole zones populated by a tiny number of players, making progress pretty much impossible.

I’m at the point of just focusing on the personal story points, and grinding the Mastery Points for Gliding and such out as I go. It’s rapidly turning into the exact opposite of fun.

But hey, at least the “hardcore” players with nothing but time on their hands get to enjoy it.

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool and you will find plenty of full maps with people running events chain and metas several times per day.
HoT has been out almost a year now. If you still are short on content done on the expansion maps its either, because a) you didn’t bother and played different content, in which case its entirely your fault, or b) you are late to the party, in which case you have to accept the fact that player population always dimishes with time, oppose to when something is new and shiny, not to mention of the recent lw3 release and the new map, which drawn substencial part of the player base.

Considering the original OP: For me HoT was a great expansion. Oppose to most MMO’s, which gives more of the same with their expansions, Anet tried to do something differently and take the game in a different direction. If it was succesful or not is matter of perseption. Different people like different things. What once percieve, as a failure, another will perceive as a success. As such if HoT was a failure or not is highly subjicative. To people who possibly read this thread and have not made their mind yet, about wether to purchase it or not, let me just say this: Watch stream material, videos etc etc and form your own opinion. You will never know until you try it, dont let other people sway your opinion, because in the end its a matter of taste.

I was late playing HOT content as well. First it was that it was released at the same time as Halloween and I decided to do a once-a-year festival rather than content that would be here after it left. Then the hardcore players were all there in a small area before raids, which is not exactly a fun environment for more casual gaming. Even now I spend most of my time in CT because I enjoy things like leveling new characters, roleplaying, and helping new people.

Which brings me to the main point of the thread, I certainly hope HOT is not the future! It concentrates the most toxic elements keeping everyone else away and then they leave all at once. Rather than all level-80 content I would also like to see a more mixed set of maps like we have in CT.

Blipp.5206:

Djinn.9245:

Blipp.5206:

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool

“Need to use the LFG tool” and “plenty of people playing HoT maps” are mutually exclusive. If there were ACTUALLY plenty of people, you wouldn’t need to use LFG.

Thats not really the case. LFG is a tool that lets you find people to do specific content. Every player goes to a certain map to do specific content

If I go to HoT maps, I often don’t see another character while doing things around the map. In AB, probably the most popular HoT map, I don’t even see people doing Pre-Meta events if I simply zone into the instance without looking for a map doing the meta. That is not “plenty of people”. If you have to know how to look for people, that means that they are hard to find…

Djinn.9245:

Blipp.5206:

Djinn.9245:

Blipp.5206:

There is still plenty of people playing hot maps, you just need to use the LFG tool

“Need to use the LFG tool” and “plenty of people playing HoT maps” are mutually exclusive. If there were ACTUALLY plenty of people, you wouldn’t need to use LFG.

Thats not really the case. LFG is a tool that lets you find people to do specific content. Every player goes to a certain map to do specific content

If I go to HoT maps, I often don’t see another character while doing things around the map. In AB, probably the most popular HoT map, I don’t even see people doing Pre-Meta events if I simply zone into the instance without looking for a map doing the meta. That is not “plenty of people”. If you have to know how to look for people, that means that they are hard to find…

That’s like saying there’s no one in NYC because when I go down a street at 4 am it’s deserted. It doesn’t mean there aren’t people in NYC. It means they’re not there at the moment you’re there. That’s all it means.

If a meta map is going on, we can fill 10 maps for the meta in AB. Filling ten maps is not no one playing.

And you can still be on a map that’s not doing the meta that has less people on it.

Djinn.9245:

If you have to know how to look for people, that means that they are hard to find…

Isn’t one of your complaints that the maps are too complex? So it’s not much of a stretch to imagine that there are 20 people on a complex map that you can’t see. Given how HoT maps are structured, people could easily be doing a boss in the canopy, an outpost, the pylons on the opposite side of the map, one of the lanes, the daily for that map.

Use the LFG and mapchat, it’s what they are there for. Saying “hi” in mapchat will get you a response. "anyone want to help me with… " or “anyone else need…” will get you a response. Popping a tag helps further.

It’s also equally possible to say this about core maps. I was in Diessa the other day and barely saw anyone. I was only there about 30 seconds to get the pact supply agent thing but sure, why not make a thread about core being dead..

i hope its not the future but its gone on so long and the new zone is so similar ive given up hope.

i check in from time to and these forums assure me that its not a game i want to be involved with anymore, so its all good

if it does change i hope they send me an email saying something about going back to the core vision, other wise, if i want a game with raids, big world quest zones, amazing lore, tons and tons of people playing well, one just launched not 12 hours ago

i cant say coz anet doesnt like it but its got Legions of happy players right now

what info is that Arden? sorry must have missed it?

nice sarcasm but it appears you have way more faith in the game industry than i do
thought you had solid info or something
simply seeing many people unhappy is never proof of change, i present to you

Wildstar

are you serious? you state that change is inevitable based on a bunch of circumstantial QQ posts.
i agree with them and agree theres a ton

but that doesnt mean at all things will actually change

apologies for being hostile, i have alot of bitterness, really really loved this game i didnt mean for it to be taken out on you, have a good day!

off to the dentist for a root canal, still less painful than navigating TD. Ha!

cheers

Bloodstone Fen is probably the direction the game is going towards for incoming content.

General Health.9678:

Djinn.9245:

If you have to know how to look for people, that means that they are hard to find…

Isn’t one of your complaints that the maps are too complex? So it’s not much of a stretch to imagine that there are 20 people on a complex map that you can’t see.

Even in Core Tyria you can’t see an entire zone from one position. I’m talking about not seeing anyone as I go about playing. Its very rare that I don’t just run into people in any Core Tyria map.

Djinn.9245:

General Health.9678:

Djinn.9245:

If you have to know how to look for people, that means that they are hard to find…

Isn’t one of your complaints that the maps are too complex? So it’s not much of a stretch to imagine that there are 20 people on a complex map that you can’t see.

Even in Core Tyria you can’t see an entire zone from one position. I’m talking about not seeing anyone as I go about playing. Its very rare that I don’t just run into people in any Core Tyria map.

In Second Life when you look at a map there is a dot where every character is. Sort of like what we have now for guildmates and friends. It is handy for focusing on the hot spot on the map. Right now we just gravitate to commander tags. Anyway, would that help?

Even now, I still think it was only worth $50 for a brand new player (both core and HoT.) Existing accounts should have had some manner of discount. However, in saying that, I do like HoT and all that has come with it. It was a little frustrating at first, but once I got settled in, I’m good with it.

It’s still a little bothersome that these new areas are still ‘engaged’ in the living story, however. Like this moment of time that you’ll forever be stuck in. It’d be nice, in some upcoming LS update, that the area just becomes the jungle with standard questlines/hearts, rather than the fight to stop Mordremoth. But then again…Orr is still fighting off Zhaitan and it’s minions. So, it doesn’t seem likely it’s going to change.

But then again…Kessek Hills. The area ‘can’ be changed. I’m not sure of the effort it took to make that happen on a developmental level, but at least as a proof of concept, it can be done.

Vayne.8563:

If a meta map is going on, we can fill 10 maps for the meta in AB. Filling ten maps is not no one playing.

That’s not “playing”. That’s the most farme event in the game. and 10 maps is around 1000-1500 people at most (that assuming all those maps are full, which they are not).
On the other hand, there are days when, even at the peak hours, you can’t find even a single map doing Gerent. Or VB meta above t2. AB maps 15 mins after te multiloot has ended are also generally empty or filled with afkers waiting for the next chest run opportunity.
Also, multiloot is going to get killed one of these days. I’m actually surprised it hasn’t happened yet – Anet was usually faster to kill (or at least diminish in some way) such farms before.

In general, i really, really hope Anet has really took the lessons to heart and is going to change course for the next expac. I don’t think i’d be able to stomach a second HoT.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

If a meta map is going on, we can fill 10 maps for the meta in AB. Filling ten maps is not no one playing.

That’s not “playing”. That’s the most farme event in the game. and 10 maps is around 1000-1500 people at most (that assuming all those maps are full, which they are not).
On the other hand, there are days when, even at the peak hours, you can’t find even a single map doing Gerent. Or VB meta above t2. AB maps 15 mins after te multiloot has ended are also generally empty or filled with afkers waiting for the next chest run opportunity.
Also, multiloot is going to get killed one of these days. I’m actually surprised it hasn’t happened yet – Anet was usually faster to kill (or at least diminish in some way) such farms before.

In general, i really, really hope Anet has really took the lessons to heart and is going to change course for the next expac. I don’t think i’d be able to stomach a second HoT.

I’ve never seen a day where those events aren’t done, at any time. But you have to get there earlier, not on time. You have to be in the map.

The event isn’t going to be done on every map, naturally. That’s not going to happen. Anymore than everyone in Orr goes to a Temple event.

There are people doing those events at all hours. But yes, they require planning in the way that something like Triple Threat requires planning. Getting to the maps early, getting into groups early.

It requires players to be more proactive. It doesn’t mean that events aren’t being done because there are times when I’m on full maps that never make it to looking for group. I’m there early looking early….particularly for TD.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

If a meta map is going on, we can fill 10 maps for the meta in AB. Filling ten maps is not no one playing.

That’s not “playing”. That’s the most farme event in the game. and 10 maps is around 1000-1500 people at most (that assuming all those maps are full, which they are not).
On the other hand, there are days when, even at the peak hours, you can’t find even a single map doing Gerent. Or VB meta above t2. AB maps 15 mins after te multiloot has ended are also generally empty or filled with afkers waiting for the next chest run opportunity.
Also, multiloot is going to get killed one of these days. I’m actually surprised it hasn’t happened yet – Anet was usually faster to kill (or at least diminish in some way) such farms before.

In general, i really, really hope Anet has really took the lessons to heart and is going to change course for the next expac. I don’t think i’d be able to stomach a second HoT.

Saying farming isn’t playing is a fairly selective view, considering farm is what some people do as their man vehicle for playing.

Some people go and farm mats in the open world. They have a route, they go through zones on multiple characters. They may never do a dungeon. To them, that’s playing. It’s not how I play but it doesn’t mean it’s not playing.

The zones are designed to separate people, but it doesn’t mean people aren’t there. I keep running into people in those zones, even at non-meta times and yes, I’m in those zones a lot.

Every time I think I’m going to get overwhelmed by something or some event, a couple of people show up. That’s without me posting in map chat or popping a tag. There are just people there.

What you find less of is zergs.

This is more like what most maps are like when there isn’t a world event on them. It’s normal not to have a hundred players on every map. However, if you put fifty or sixty players on a hot map, I’m pretty sure it would look like no one was playing. I’m in a cave, you’re in the canopy. I’m doing hero points, you’re doing events. I’m doing adventures, someone else is farming mats.

There are people around. They simply aren’t congregating unless an event is on.

And I’ve still not found a time when a TD event wasn’t being done on a map….but that map usually sets up 15 minutes before the event timer kicks in.

I think HoT would be a lot more popular without a lot of negative publicity from a few people who judged it early and hated it. Without the negative publicity where would be even more people in zones. But I don’t think many people gave hot a chance, comparatively anyway.

I don’t think HoT will be the future design-wise because of how verbal the backlash was, but I think a lot more people like it than most people who don’t think.

I love the HoT maps, but I’d love them more if I could just log in and play them any time. I recognize that they aren’t “dead”, but that isn’t my issue. I just want to play and the hard event timers combined with the LFG and megaserver systems create a scenario in which your only option for doing so is to show up at the correct time and use LFG.

That’s the biggest failing of HoT, in my opinion. Well, that and adventures. But at least those are somewhat optional. Unfortunately, this issue is simply a side-effect of the design. I wish there were a way around it, but they’ll probably just have to avoid this event setup in the future.

AliamRationem.5172:

I love the HoT maps, but I’d love them more if I could just log in and play them any time. I recognize that they aren’t “dead”, but that isn’t my issue. I just want to play and the hard event timers combined with the LFG and megaserver systems create a scenario in which your only option for doing so is to show up at the correct time and use LFG.

That’s the biggest failing of HoT, in my opinion. Well, that and adventures. But at least those are somewhat optional. Unfortunately, this issue is simply a side-effect of the design. I wish there were a way around it, but they’ll probably just have to avoid this event setup in the future.

I play HOT zones at any time. You can solo much of it, probably most of it, but even with one single friend you can do an awful lot. And even if you don’t have friends playing, it’s easy enough to find people doing stuff in zones even at off hours.

But again, as I’ve already said, I sincerely doubt they’ll be doing this again.