Guild Wars 2

Ricky.4706:

wishful thinking is good, let’s see what happens. I hope for the best, but not for the dark side to win, i want my old gw guys back.

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst.

very well, let’s all think positive thoughts, i’d like that.

https://youtu.be/YGU8_9UuSM4

I have 15 characters. I’m unwilling to delete any of them. If I buy HoT I will want to roll a Revenant. That means I need a character slot. So, the minimum cost to me for this expansion is $60. I have not seen nearly enough included to equate to $60 value, so I’ll just wait for HoT to go on sale or for a better deal on the packages.

No worries, the market will sort this out. If I end up moving back to ESO or on to a different game, so be it.

unless the veteran in question doubts this is the same gw team that made gw great. the original gw team was always cool with us and never tried marketing schemes on us, they actually made the promotions quite fun at one time.

I’m not trying to downplay the righteous outrage of the aggrieved, but the OP’s math is excessively skewed. As with all statistics, one can make them “prove” anything. So, yes, you’re wrong. If the “deal” were really worth $115, then it would be sold at that price. There’s also the fact that for many veterans, the value of the core game’s content has depreciated. That is why there was such a demand for an expansion in the first place.

The true value of the core game is whatever value the producer assigns to it. That is currently 0, and recent history shows it ranging from, iirc, $10 to $40. If the “deal” did not exist, then a savvy new player would get the core game the next time it went to $10 and pay $60, total.

No, it really isn’t that bad at all. It’s all perception. There’s a difference between being slapped in the face and wanting a better deal. Anyone with reading comprehension and reasoning skills can see that there’s nothing sinister going on here – just a marketing decision gone horribly awry.

I wont be buying it at that price for what it comes with
i can wait for a 9.99 price tag in a year or 2

if i remember this game then

Valky.2574:

I wont be buying it at that price for what it comes with
i can wait for a 9.99 price tag in a year or 2

if i remember this game then

All of the content hasn’t been revealed yet. Why so angry?

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not trying to downplay the righteous outrage of the aggrieved, but the OP’s math is excessively skewed. As with all statistic, one can make them “prove” anything. So, yes, you’re wrong. If the “deal” were really worth $115, then it would be sold at that price. There’s also the fact that for many veterans, the value of the core game’s content has depreciated. That is why there was such a demand for an expansion in the first place.

The true value of the core game is whatever value the producer assigns to it. That is currently 0, and recent history shows it ranging from, iirc, $10 to $40. If the “deal” did not exist, then a savvy new player would get the core game the next time it went to $10 and pay $60, total.

Economics is a social construct. You could price a toothpick at $1,000, but that doesn’t mean that the toothpick is actually worth that much money, because nobody would want to spend that much on something that they don’t feel is worth it.

Once again:
Dev team = Anet USA manage the game
Profit and spending = Ncsoft Korea manage the money and marketing.
Resolution : Anet have to let Ncsoft know what is happening and Ncsoft alone makes the decisions.

Is it really that bad for the Vets

Personally no. I have 4 level 80s that can easily get into the new content much quicker then new players, I also have account bonuses due to age and daily logins and AP benifits. While I have 1 character slot open(is/was my BL key farmer) I still have easier access to income potential to buy a slot of needed compared to new players.

While I won’t be buying HoT at release, but that is because of other reasons outside of HoT.

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

If it was not such a bad deal for veterans we would not be complaining, the board would not be exploding, and other forms of media would not be picking up on this: Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Massively, and even PC gamer:

“Guild Wars 2 players rightly upset by Heart of Thorns’ pre-purchase scheme”

“People who don’t yet own Guild Wars 2 are getting an amazing deal. People who do—who have potentially supported the game for three years—are not.”

Yes it is a big deal, and it would be nice if you looked at outside for a moment. Not asking for you to agree, but just look. Just the fact that PC Gamer agrees with us should carry some weight.

No one is forcing anyone to buy the game… if it is “too expensive”, don’t buy it. It is literally as simple as that.

Tree.3916:

No one is forcing anyone to buy the game… if it is “too expensive”, don’t buy it. It is literally as simple as that.

Many of us aren’t.

But that doesn’t mean that we can’t bring our concerns to the attention of the management, does it?

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

The company I work for is owned by another company.
But when a customer comes to the door, or calls in, you bet your kitten I fix their problem(s) because it’s my kitten job!
Yes, there are strict margins to meet, and guidelines to follow.
but you know who gets fired? The guy who loses customers, whether he followed the guidelines or not.
you know who get a raise and the corner office? The guy who pointed out the problem with the guidelines that were preventing growth; and then signed a large account or valuable retainer(s) as a result.
In the end it is Arenanet’s problem, NOT NCSoft’s, to generate product, profit, hype, and to solve problems. NCSoft provides nothing but capitol, budgets, and goals in order to maintain overall success across all entities they own. As a result they likely have a set of strict rules and guidelines, BUT it is Arenanet’s responsibility to act a liaison between their source of revenue and their source of capitol. This may mean some disgruntled customers, OR a disgruntled parent company.
I just hope they think we as customers are worth it. And go to battle under our banner. I also hope, and truly feel, that we as a strong community of players will make that potential fight have an outcome in Arenanet’s favor.
Heck, if it came out that people at arenanet went out on a limb for us, the customers, and as a result got dropped by NCSoft and went out on an independent venture a mass of people would gladly flock to their new game on principle alone. Voting with their wallets, just as we are now.

Black Box.9312:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not trying to downplay the righteous outrage of the aggrieved, but the OP’s math is excessively skewed. As with all statistic, one can make them “prove” anything. So, yes, you’re wrong. If the “deal” were really worth $115, then it would be sold at that price. There’s also the fact that for many veterans, the value of the core game’s content has depreciated. That is why there was such a demand for an expansion in the first place.

The true value of the core game is whatever value the producer assigns to it. That is currently 0, and recent history shows it ranging from, iirc, $10 to $40. If the “deal” did not exist, then a savvy new player would get the core game the next time it went to $10 and pay $60, total.

Economics is a social construct. You could price a toothpick at $1,000, but that doesn’t mean that the toothpick is actually worth that much money, because nobody would want to spend that much on something that they don’t feel is worth it.

To me, the real issue is, “Does HoT provide enough content to warrant the price tag?” I have to answer that at this time I don’t know.

I strongly encourage critical examination of worth. Worth is subjective, but it can become slightly less subjective if one comparison shops. Game companies bundle older games all the time. While bundling the core game with a new expansion is unusual, the outcome is the same — new players get a deal. This is a sideshow to what ought to be the real issue — which is whether HoT provides value-for-money on its own.

ANet has set a value of $50 for HoT. They’ve made that statement more than once. Will HoT suddenly become worth $50 if ANet decides that they’ll go back to selling core separately? Because I believe that’s a more likely outcome than that they’ll sell HoT for less or throw in a character slot for vets.

I believe one of the main reasons for them combining it was so they only had to maintain and sell 1 version of the game. Instead of trying to market, maintain, and justify keeping the core separate alongside HoT.

corporations are concerned about making investors happy, we need to be recognized as investors. simple.

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft owns Anet and this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft funded this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

You really have no idea how parent companies and subsidiaries work do you?

i would think the rule is universal, no money , no honey.

BrooksP.4318:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft funded this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

You really have no idea how parent companies and subsidiaries work do you?

I guess you don’t either.

BrooksP.4318:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft funded this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

You really have no idea how parent companies and subsidiaries work do you?

There’s a book called “Innovation and Strategy of Online Games.” There is a section in there that talks about NCsoft and it reads like this:

“NCsoft’s US marketing strategy follows the local server-direct publishing-package sales model, which is an expensive option, but more lucrative than other distribution methods if successful. NCsoft’s size and financial resources allow it to take this route, enabling it to establish local offices in any market it wishes to enter as well as recruit local talent and buy out local domestic developers to assist in their releases.”

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft owns Anet and this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

So you quoted my post, but didn’t read the whole thing… I’m aware, and in fact pointed out that NCSoft would be the one’s setting the price and “calling the shots.”

Please re-read my post

Ambika.6257:

BrooksP.4318:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft funded this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

You really have no idea how parent companies and subsidiaries work do you?

There’s a book called “Innovation and Strategy of Online Games.” There is a section in there that talks about NCsoft and it reads like this:

“NCsoft’s US marketing strategy follows the local server-direct publishing-package sales model, which is an expensive option, but more lucrative than other distribution methods if successful. NCsoft’s size and financial resources allow it to take this route, enabling it to establish local offices in any market it wishes to enter as well as recruit local talent and buy out local domestic developers to assist in their releases.”

Edit: Adding the previous paragraph which is also pertinent:

“NCsoft operates local servers and has a full satellite office in the U.S.; which is significantly more expensive than partnering with a local publisher. Problems can also arise with delayed transmission of new policies and patches between headquarters and the satellite office, but the advantage is that they retain full control of their game and also get to keep all the profits."

Doing local servers or even doing satellite offices isn’t uncommon for large parent companies to do, it allows for steady transitions of games to that particular market. It also allows for revenue to flow into the satellite which reduces legal or financial limitations in regards to foreign companies . However this usually applies to development of the parent company’s releases or transitioning foreign subsidiaries into that market, since they are usually developed outside of where the satellite office is located at, not necessarily applies to local publishers or local based subsidiaries.

Though +1 for the book, haven’t read it, but checked a snippet on it, but it mostly talked about the Chinese and Korean market.

However I still don’t see how this has to do with that. NCsoft posting quarterly numbers on their investments, doesn’t really indicate full control. Especially since GW/GW2 doesn’t follow the same model as most of NCsofts other business models, nor even Korean based MMO models. It would make more sense to allow Anet to manage a lot of those issues, so long as they are hitting the numbers NCsoft expects. While I have no doubt that NCsoft has influence, but doubt they are overlords over Anets practices.

E: After rereading what I wrote, I realized I need sleep. Sounded more like garbled gibberish, then what I was trying to convey.

BrooksP.4318:

Doing local servers or even doing satellite offices isn’t uncommon for large parent companies to do, it allows for steady transitions of games to that particular market. It also allows for revenue to flow into the satellite which reduces legal or financial limitations in regards to foreign companies . However this usually applies to development of the parent company’s releases or transitioning foreign subsidiaries into that market, since they are usually developed outside of where the satellite office is located at, not necessarily applies to local publishers or local based subsidiaries.

Though +1 for the book, haven’t read it, but checked a snippet on it, but it mostly talked about the Chinese and Korean market.

However I still don’t see how this has to do with that. NCsoft posting quarterly numbers on their investments, doesn’t really indicate full control. Especially since GW/GW2 doesn’t follow the same model as most of NCsofts other business models, nor even Korean based MMO models. It would make more sense to allow Anet to manage a lot of those issues, so long as they are hitting the numbers NCsoft expects. While I have no doubt that NCsoft has influence, but doubt they are overlords over Anets practices.

E: After rereading what I wrote, I realized I need sleep. Sounded more like garbled gibberish, then what I was trying to convey.

Sorry, my point in pulling that up is that they have a place in the decision making, and it is definitive that they do based on the fact that they market and publish the game. But you are right, how much of that decision is theirs is difficult to ascertain. That being said, I don’t think that we can put full criticism on one or the other without knowing, it’s disingenuous to assume something that damaging. I suspect either way, Anet will have to soak it up, even if it wasn’t their call because NCsoft will never talk to fans of any of the games they soak up.

To answer the OP’s question, no it’s not at all bad for Vets. The new players don’t get anything that the vet players don’t already have. You can jump through ludicrous hoops to make it seem like some terrible deal, but that’s all nonsense that would only fool children and small animals.