Is it time to nerf difficulty of metas?

Is it time to nerf difficulty of metas?

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Posted by: Kythan Myr.4719

Kythan Myr.4719

Population is down or spread out. Still new players coming in. Metas were completely doable and achieved a healthy life cycle, but that was 2 years ago. Metas can still be done, but not as reliably as before even during NA prime time. Seen more and more metas fail that past few months and I’m showing up (when I do) the same time as I did a year or so ago. I think they had a good run, but if they are going to be reliably doable, I think they need the SW QoL adjustment.

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Posted by: turnkey.2196

turnkey.2196

Everything past the core game, old Tyria if you will, is overtuned. It is what is keeping this game from becoming a premier title. Solo personal stories are not solo personal stories. Well, I guess they are if you enjoy dying quite a bit when there is no matter of skill to prevent it. I came back to this game recently after leaving it after release because of the difficulty of the then “end game areas”; specifically Orr. They tuned it down from my understanding some time ago. If that is true, I can’t for the life of me understand why they make the “solo” part of the game so difficult, not impossible, but difficult, for the solo player? Did they learn nothing? Also, they will not post here, it isn’t often you get a response from the devs; they seem to not care.

So, your point is on point, as it were, for meta events. I am just pointing out the overall, unnecessary difficulty of this game. I read someone somewhere say it is the MMO style Dark Souls of the MMO world.

(edited by turnkey.2196)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

HoT was released 16 months ago and it took a few months for people to figure out the metas. Now that they have, it takes fewer people to complete them.

So, I can’t agree that they can’t be reliably done during NA or EU prime and therefore, no, I don’t think it’s time to nerf the difficulty.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

I read someone somewhere say it is the MMO style Dark Souls of the MMO world.

Is this a joke? GW2 is really easy, sometimes I wonder if what people want from this game is a way to press 1 and win their encounters because the game is so easy you don’t even have to use your skills to win, or the combat system.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Metas don’t always have to succeed. The fact that people think they do is a problem. Every event ideally should have at least a small chance to fail. In core Tyria that doesn’t happen so people get to end game stuff and think it should always succeed. Even on full maps you can lose something like Tarir by one side killing the octovine instead of waiting. A full map of TD can fail by Nuhoch Lane not stomping mushrooms fast enough. A DS full map can fail if one side can’t keep the blighting pods down.

There are enough people to do every meta. More people have to learn to organize those people. I’ve done it a few times, so I know it can be done. I’ve done it on maps where people have said there aren’t enough people to do the meta.

It often starts with a post to LFG.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

I wouldn’t count on anything changing. ArenaNet simply doesn’t have the resources. They had to pull the expansion team the first time they updated HoT. Megaservers have been broken since forever, which is the real problem, but they’ve also admitted that part of the problem is intentional, with maps having reserved priorities and thus half filled. The most I see them doing is simply making HoT F2P, then they can just avoid it.

Is this a joke?

The funny thing about GW2 is how many people don’t realize that the content is actually balanced for solo play and group events are balanced for 3-5.

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Posted by: felincyriac.5981

felincyriac.5981

I was looking more into the hero points stuff in the HoT map, whilst I can solo some of the boss ones there are a couple in each map that are just impossible to solo and with the lack of players you can’t really do much…

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Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

I was thinking the other way around, when people get used to content, you shouldn’t make it easier, you should make it harder (keep the rewards in perspective, of course)

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Posted by: SlippyCheeze.5483

SlippyCheeze.5483

I was looking more into the hero points stuff in the HoT map, whilst I can solo some of the boss ones there are a couple in each map that are just impossible to solo and with the lack of players you can’t really do much…

Have you tried asking other players, either in your guild, in these forums, or via reddit? All of those sources are effective and useful.

You can also try asking after the completion of a meta cycle in the maps, when there are usually a bunch of players around, or checking LFG at various (typically, local peak) times, since groups completing this content are regular.

You could also advertise in LFG for others to do them with you, and see if you get any takers. You are unlikely to be the only person ever wanting to complete these maps.

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Posted by: Daddicus.6128

Daddicus.6128

I was looking more into the hero points stuff in the HoT map, whilst I can solo some of the boss ones there are a couple in each map that are just impossible to solo and with the lack of players you can’t really do much…

OK, I’ll add to my first post: when you’re in LFG, advertise “hero point train” for the zone you’re in. An HP train is a bunch going from one HP to the next, all the way through the map. I think.

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Posted by: Pepsi.8907

Pepsi.8907

I finished the personal story yesterday (after five years lol) and it was so easy on solo it was laughable, so I really don’t get this “nerf” difficulty. If anything, the meta in the HoT maps are more than welcome to me, who absolutely hate being able to just stand immobile pressing 1. So yeah, no. Don’t nerf anything. If possible, ramp it up.

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Posted by: felincyriac.5981

felincyriac.5981

ty for the replies but I’ve already got enough points by doing the ones I could solo, was just talking about the few I encountered that I couldn’t solo.

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Posted by: flog.3485

flog.3485

HoT was released 16 months ago and it took a few months for people to figure out the metas. Now that they have, it takes fewer people to complete them.

So, I can’t agree that they can’t be reliably done during NA or EU prime and therefore, no, I don’t think it’s time to nerf the difficulty.

So true. Personnally I achieved a T4 Verdant brink last night and it was well passed midnight on EU.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

HoT was released 16 months ago and it took a few months for people to figure out the metas. Now that they have, it takes fewer people to complete them.

So, I can’t agree that they can’t be reliably done during NA or EU prime and therefore, no, I don’t think it’s time to nerf the difficulty.

So true. Personnally I achieved a T4 Verdant brink last night and it was well passed midnight on EU.

That’s excellent. I find T4 to be the most difficult to complete, despite it being inherently easier — the problem is getting people to scatter rather than zerg and relatively few veteran VBers seem willing to explain that to people before the meta starts.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: flog.3485

flog.3485

HoT was released 16 months ago and it took a few months for people to figure out the metas. Now that they have, it takes fewer people to complete them.

So, I can’t agree that they can’t be reliably done during NA or EU prime and therefore, no, I don’t think it’s time to nerf the difficulty.

So true. Personnally I achieved a T4 Verdant brink last night and it was well passed midnight on EU.

That’s excellent. I find T4 to be the most difficult to complete, despite it being inherently easier — the problem is getting people to scatter rather than zerg and relatively few veteran VBers seem willing to explain that to people before the meta starts.

Exactly the commander knew very very well how to get to T4 and he was a great leader

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Of course there is no way around it

Either they nerf it or they fix it and we all know their not going to fix anything. We still have rng adventures that are effected by outside mobs. Metas like AB are by no means balanced with east gliding over, west running around this sides, north choosing their path, and South going dead set through the center with a bomb. I mention AB because it’s a prime example of an issue. AB doesn’t have to be nerfed but it needs to be fixed to where all lanes are equal and the map doesn’t just flood into east.

These metas are long with different aspects and the aspects should be on par for instance the lanes in DS are fine the amount of time however to complete it isn’t but it’s that balance that keeps DS an active meta while metas like VB are blue moon events and TD is a single map you either squeeze in or get zip.

Anet won’t fix HoT so the only thing left is to nerf in order to keep them active.

Furthermore even if you tried to solo or get a small group together so little people remain in the maps that the change maps/hour till close deal pops up ending that hope. The only large active deal you’ll find in HoT these days are the HP trains designed to get people in and out a band aid for the players by the players to lessen the burden that is HoT.

(edited by Doam.8305)

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Population is down or spread out. Still new players coming in. Metas were completely doable and achieved a healthy life cycle, but that was 2 years ago. Metas can still be done, but not as reliably as before even during NA prime time. Seen more and more metas fail that past few months and I’m showing up (when I do) the same time as I did a year or so ago. I think they had a good run, but if they are going to be reliably doable, I think they need the SW QoL adjustment.

It sounds like you don’t understand how megaserver works with regard to HoT meta events, which is probably why you perceive events failing more often now than previously.

Organized maps don’t usually fail these events, which makes sense because HoT has been out awhile and most players have at least a basic understanding of what it takes to complete them. If this were an issue of too few players available, then the organized maps would not fill up. But we see that they generally do.

However, when you waypoint into an HoT map prior to the meta, you’re placed on one of a number of open instances of the map. Meanwhile, the players interested in completing the meta utilize the LFG system to jump to the map that is organizing. This map quickly fills up and the remaining maps are the depleted maps these players left behind. You’re far more likely to waypoint into one of these leftover maps than the organized map, especially if it happens to be full already!

This also explains why around meta time you often find yourself prompted to jump maps due to low population. And when you jump maps this way, you’re often prompted to do so again and again. This is the megaserver system attempting to condense the depleted instances of the map according to its own rules.

Try using LFG ahead of the meta. It’s rare that these events fail these days when players are actively organizing a map to complete them.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Population is down or spread out. Still new players coming in. Metas were completely doable and achieved a healthy life cycle, but that was 2 years ago. Metas can still be done, but not as reliably as before even during NA prime time. Seen more and more metas fail that past few months and I’m showing up (when I do) the same time as I did a year or so ago. I think they had a good run, but if they are going to be reliably doable, I think they need the SW QoL adjustment.

HoT has only been out for a little over a year; not 2 years.

Metas have always succeeded when people actually listen and work together. You can also tag up and get people on your map. So many people get frustrated that they cannot simply join an already existing map and refuse to take the initiative and start their own.

What SW treatment? I don’t remember it being nerfed because there wasn’t enough players.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Of course there is no way around it

Either they nerf it or they fix it and we all know their not going to fix anything.

Or they determine that it’s not broken so there’s nothing to nerf or fix. Metas will fail on occasion, but hardly ever when people get organized soon enough.

Now, that doesn’t happen to be true for Silverwastes or World Bosses (aside from Triple Worm) — people can show up and do just about anything and the meta can succeed on the strength of a few people knowing what to do. (It changed for Tequatl and SW because of HoT: our builds got more powerful.)

The maps with complicated metas need a bit more attention, which is why they sometimes fail. And I like that aspect of them — World Bosses are boring because they never fail.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Of course there is no way around it

Either they nerf it or they fix it and we all know their not going to fix anything.

Or they determine that it’s not broken so there’s nothing to nerf or fix. Metas will fail on occasion, but hardly ever when people get organized soon enough.

Now, that doesn’t happen to be true for Silverwastes or World Bosses (aside from Triple Worm) — people can show up and do just about anything and the meta can succeed on the strength of a few people knowing what to do. (It changed for Tequatl and SW because of HoT: our builds got more powerful.)

The maps with complicated metas need a bit more attention, which is why they sometimes fail. And I like that aspect of them — World Bosses are boring because they never fail.

There are no complicated metas they can all be beaten like any world boss if they have the numbers. AB can be done with the least amount of people while a perfect VB needs the most however HoT maps don’t have the steady numbers to be completed like any other map.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with events failing on occasion at all and have everything to do with tuning. From buggy last story instance to people still complaining about buggy collection vendors a person could write a book. However on things that everyone notices are that problems reported are HoT related. People are not posting about issue with ls3, ls2, nor the core maps and people aren’t making up excuses to defend ls3, ls2, or the core maps as HoT is the issue.

HoT maps are the most underused, buggiest, and without a doubt the most unbalanced in this entire game. They’d require the most work to fix and Anet doesn’t fix they remove as was seen with underwater, certain class mechanics, anything that even slightly bothers esport activity. HoT has been nerfed once already and the large post HoT powercreep we’ve seen not even two years since it’s launch should count as an additional nerf to HoT.

They’ll no doubt nerf it some more because their feedback and their presence is more Reddit based than these forums. This place has a voting system but it’s hidden. The entire forum can be swinging one way but the hidden upvotes can be in another direction. I read both forums because the devs are on both and HoT isn’t perfect and it has and no doubt will be nerfed again in the future. I’m against hard nerf but am all for fixes and soft power creep nerfs.

(edited by Doam.8305)

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Of course there is no way around it

Either they nerf it or they fix it and we all know their not going to fix anything.

Or they determine that it’s not broken so there’s nothing to nerf or fix. Metas will fail on occasion, but hardly ever when people get organized soon enough.

Now, that doesn’t happen to be true for Silverwastes or World Bosses (aside from Triple Worm) — people can show up and do just about anything and the meta can succeed on the strength of a few people knowing what to do. (It changed for Tequatl and SW because of HoT: our builds got more powerful.)

The maps with complicated metas need a bit more attention, which is why they sometimes fail. And I like that aspect of them — World Bosses are boring because they never fail.

There are no complicated metas they can all be beaten like any world boss if they have the numbers. AB can be done with the least amount of people while a perfect VB needs the most however HoT maps don’t have the steady numbers to be completed like any other map.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with events failing on occasion at all and have everything to do with tuning. From buggy last story instance to people still complaining about buggy collection vendors a person could write a book. However on things that everyone notices are that problems reported are HoT related. People are not posting about issue with ls3, ls2, nor the core maps and people aren’t making up excuses to defend ls3, ls2, or the core maps as HoT is the issue.

HoT maps are the most underused, buggiest, and without a doubt the most unbalanced in this entire game. They’d require the most work to fix and Anet doesn’t fix they remove as was seen with underwater, certain class mechanics, anything that even slightly bothers esport activity. HoT has been nerfed once already and the large post HoT powercreep we’ve seen not even two years since it’s launch should count as an additional nerf to HoT.

They’ll no doubt nerf it some more because their feedback and their presence is more Reddit based than these forums. This place has a voting system but it’s hidden. The entire forum can be swinging one way but the hidden upvotes can be in another direction. I read both forums because the devs are on both and HoT isn’t perfect and it has and no doubt will be nerfed again in the future. I’m against hard nerf but am all for fixes and soft power creep nerfs.

VB can be done with half a map. HoT maps do have the numbers as they are continuously being completed. If you need to hop into a map, use the LFG. If you need to pull people to you map, use the LFG. It’s what it is for.

How exactly are HoT maps the most underused maps in the game? How many people use core maps that don’t have a world boss? Surely those are underused too. Buggiest? Exactly what bugs are you speaking of? I haven’t encountered a bug in months. Unbalanced how?

I don’t see it being nerfed unless there is very little people completeing the metas. Considering that they’re still getting completed, it’s unlikely to happen any time soon.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

I wouldn’t count on anything changing. ArenaNet simply doesn’t have the resources. They had to pull the expansion team the first time they updated HoT. Megaservers have been broken since forever, which is the real problem, but they’ve also admitted that part of the problem is intentional, with maps having reserved priorities and thus half filled. The most I see them doing is simply making HoT F2P, then they can just avoid it.

Is this a joke?

The funny thing about GW2 is how many people don’t realize that the content is actually balanced for solo play and group events are balanced for 3-5.

hot going free to play will not fix a thing it will be the oposite tbh they will end up losing money if they do that.

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

There are no complicated metas they can all be beaten like any world boss if they have the numbers. AB can be done with the least amount of people while a perfect VB needs the most however HoT maps don’t have the steady numbers to be completed like any other map.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with events failing on occasion at all and have everything to do with tuning. From buggy last story instance to people still complaining about buggy collection vendors a person could write a book. However on things that everyone notices are that problems reported are HoT related. People are not posting about issue with ls3, ls2, nor the core maps and people aren’t making up excuses to defend ls3, ls2, or the core maps as HoT is the issue.

HoT maps are the most underused, buggiest, and without a doubt the most unbalanced in this entire game. They’d require the most work to fix and Anet doesn’t fix they remove as was seen with underwater, certain class mechanics, anything that even slightly bothers esport activity. HoT has been nerfed once already and the large post HoT powercreep we’ve seen not even two years since it’s launch should count as an additional nerf to HoT.

They’ll no doubt nerf it some more because their feedback and their presence is more Reddit based than these forums. This place has a voting system but it’s hidden. The entire forum can be swinging one way but the hidden upvotes can be in another direction. I read both forums because the devs are on both and HoT isn’t perfect and it has and no doubt will be nerfed again in the future. I’m against hard nerf but am all for fixes and soft power creep nerfs.

You say that HoT lacks the steady numbers to complete the meta. This is objectively false as the metas are completed routinely at all hours and the maps that organize almost always fill up to the player limit. Further, if you care to organize a second map, that map will usually fill up also, provided you have sufficient time between the time the first map fills up and the event begins. Even a map with an awful reputation like TD.

You go on to state that the HoT maps are “underused”. How did you measure player traffic in order to determine that they are underused? The short answer is: You didn’t.

And compared to what? SW is the same way. If you just zone in and don’t use LFG, you could easily end up on a chest train map. Or an overflow map that just has a few players slowly progressing the meta with no chance of completing it. Just as in HoT maps, players who use LFG to find or organize a meta map leave underpopulated maps with less chance of completing the meta behind as they jump maps.

Of course, you know all of this as you’ve been told on multiple occasions. So I’m not going to convince you otherwise, even when it’s plain as day that you’re wrong.

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

There are no complicated metas they can all be beaten like any world boss if they have the numbers. AB can be done with the least amount of people while a perfect VB needs the most however HoT maps don’t have the steady numbers to be completed like any other map.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with events failing on occasion at all and have everything to do with tuning. From buggy last story instance to people still complaining about buggy collection vendors a person could write a book. However on things that everyone notices are that problems reported are HoT related. People are not posting about issue with ls3, ls2, nor the core maps and people aren’t making up excuses to defend ls3, ls2, or the core maps as HoT is the issue.

HoT maps are the most underused, buggiest, and without a doubt the most unbalanced in this entire game. They’d require the most work to fix and Anet doesn’t fix they remove as was seen with underwater, certain class mechanics, anything that even slightly bothers esport activity. HoT has been nerfed once already and the large post HoT powercreep we’ve seen not even two years since it’s launch should count as an additional nerf to HoT.

They’ll no doubt nerf it some more because their feedback and their presence is more Reddit based than these forums. This place has a voting system but it’s hidden. The entire forum can be swinging one way but the hidden upvotes can be in another direction. I read both forums because the devs are on both and HoT isn’t perfect and it has and no doubt will be nerfed again in the future. I’m against hard nerf but am all for fixes and soft power creep nerfs.

You say that HoT lacks the steady numbers to complete the meta. This is objectively false as the metas are completed routinely at all hours and the maps that organize almost always fill up to the player limit. Further, if you care to organize a second map, that map will usually fill up also, provided you have sufficient time between the time the first map fills up and the event begins. Even a map with an awful reputation like TD.

You go on to state that the HoT maps are “underused”. How did you measure player traffic in order to determine that they are underused? The short answer is: You didn’t.

And compared to what? SW is the same way. If you just zone in and don’t use LFG, you could easily end up on a chest train map. Or an overflow map that just has a few players slowly progressing the meta with no chance of completing it. Just as in HoT maps, players who use LFG to find or organize a meta map leave underpopulated maps with less chance of completing the meta behind as they jump maps.

Of course, you know all of this as you’ve been told on multiple occasions. So I’m not going to convince you otherwise, even when it’s plain as day that you’re wrong.

Your first statement is false cause they most definitely are not being completed at all hours.

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

There are no complicated metas they can all be beaten like any world boss if they have the numbers. AB can be done with the least amount of people while a perfect VB needs the most however HoT maps don’t have the steady numbers to be completed like any other map.

My comments have absolutely nothing to do with events failing on occasion at all and have everything to do with tuning. From buggy last story instance to people still complaining about buggy collection vendors a person could write a book. However on things that everyone notices are that problems reported are HoT related. People are not posting about issue with ls3, ls2, nor the core maps and people aren’t making up excuses to defend ls3, ls2, or the core maps as HoT is the issue.

HoT maps are the most underused, buggiest, and without a doubt the most unbalanced in this entire game. They’d require the most work to fix and Anet doesn’t fix they remove as was seen with underwater, certain class mechanics, anything that even slightly bothers esport activity. HoT has been nerfed once already and the large post HoT powercreep we’ve seen not even two years since it’s launch should count as an additional nerf to HoT.

They’ll no doubt nerf it some more because their feedback and their presence is more Reddit based than these forums. This place has a voting system but it’s hidden. The entire forum can be swinging one way but the hidden upvotes can be in another direction. I read both forums because the devs are on both and HoT isn’t perfect and it has and no doubt will be nerfed again in the future. I’m against hard nerf but am all for fixes and soft power creep nerfs.

You say that HoT lacks the steady numbers to complete the meta. This is objectively false as the metas are completed routinely at all hours and the maps that organize almost always fill up to the player limit. Further, if you care to organize a second map, that map will usually fill up also, provided you have sufficient time between the time the first map fills up and the event begins. Even a map with an awful reputation like TD.

You go on to state that the HoT maps are “underused”. How did you measure player traffic in order to determine that they are underused? The short answer is: You didn’t.

And compared to what? SW is the same way. If you just zone in and don’t use LFG, you could easily end up on a chest train map. Or an overflow map that just has a few players slowly progressing the meta with no chance of completing it. Just as in HoT maps, players who use LFG to find or organize a meta map leave underpopulated maps with less chance of completing the meta behind as they jump maps.

Of course, you know all of this as you’ve been told on multiple occasions. So I’m not going to convince you otherwise, even when it’s plain as day that you’re wrong.

Your first statement is false cause they most definitely are not being completed at all hours.

I get how it could appear that HoT is empty if you don’t use LFG. That’s a side-effect of the megaserver system. An organized map is going to fill up with players who want to do the meta. Meanwhile, they leave several other instances of the map underpopulated when they jump to the organized map. Guess which map you waypoint into when you don’t use LFG? I’ll give you a hint: It isn’t the full map.

I’ve been working on completing collections that require running the AB and DS meta a lot recently and I’ve had no trouble getting groups. Just check LFG an appropriate amount of time prior to the meta and you’re in. It’s that simple. But I suppose you could just assume I’m making it up to score internet points. I’ll leave that up to you.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

hot going free to play will not fix a thing it will be the oposite tbh they will end up losing money if they do that.

Making it F2P wouldn’t fix the actual problem, but it would fix the population by flooding the maps with new players. It would cost them of course, because a portion of the free players would quit for the same old reasons. Earnings are down 25% compared to the year prior to HoT’s announcement. The problem with the lack of vertical progression and an increasing difficulty is that the higher that wall goes, the more they’re going to lose.

Like how other MMOs handle old group content, I’d expect to see HoT blanket nerfed with the next expansion, which would give the casual players their turn to faceroll through it. ArenaNet obviously doesn’t have the resources however, so doing that would mean delaying something else. Considering ArenaNet’s history however, I doubt they’ll do anything, as they’ve always been for the gamers, not the majority.

Try using LFG ahead of the meta. It’s rare that these events fail these days when players are actively organizing a map to complete them.

Failure is the reason it turned out this way. You don’t need a full map, not even half of one, but most people simply can’t handle the difficulty. The higher the chances of it failing, the less people will bother showing up. To counter this, people started using LFG to make a full map, which greatly reduces the difficulty simply due to numbers. As people taxi out of the other maps however, it causes them to die out, which is why there’s a bunch of empty maps and a single full one. The real problem here is that megaservers don’t fill up a map, but instead open a new one once a map is half filled.

From the perspective of the average player, the game is going to appear dead because they’re simply going to login and play, not LFG. These metas would have been far better off as activities, where you simply queued in and were automatically placed in teams.

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Posted by: Plautze.6290

Plautze.6290

Making HoT F2P is the best way to flood this forum with people qq-ing about how hard HoT is :P we have seen that like every day in the last few months.

Some of the event chains could do with a little tune-down, tho. It’s highly irritating to start the Ogre event chain in TD and fail it multiple times despite calling out for help because literally no one is showing up. And when there are 3 persons showing up, they get downed 4 times in 2 minutes and ragequit to do some blob-content.

Metas I reckon to be fine. Last time I checked, there were 4 full DS instances for example. One has to be flexible, I guess. When there is nobody doing a specific meta, they should do another one. Also, some guilds/communities offer max tier meta runs multiple times a day. And please, don’t give me the “I want to play what I want when I want” argument. Being all self-centered is what makes people ignore downed players or players in need of help. And don’t give me the “I only have limited time per day” argument either. I too have maybe 1h per day, yet the other day, I did not progress in TD map completion, as I had intended, but helped other players do all the HPs (in my case, again). It was very enjoyable and certainly better than just doing map completion. It did not feel like a loss.

As an average player, I do agree that some maps seem dead, but then I DO use LFG and sometimes are lucky enough to do what I actually wanted. If I don’t, I just do something else in this joy-packed wonderland we call HoT

Rohan Blackraven | Allister Mortis | Mindblower Torxx

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

I’d rather like to see the core game brought up to par instead of HoT being dumbed down further.

People should learn their respective classes on the way to 80 so that endgame can actually be endgame and not a second tutorial on how to do things.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Making HoT F2P will lead to even more meta events failed. Lets face it, a lot of players in open world are just running and pressing 1. I will always remember one of my fights with wyvern matriarch boss in VB. At the begining of the fight there were only me and one random necromancer. Wyvern tried to fly up, we CCed it and burned 50% of its health. Then glorified zerg comes in. And guess what? Every CC phase failed, and the fight lasted for 7 minutes more.
So I personally would prefer a small group of people who know how to damage, dodge, CC and understand actual boss mechanics over a full map of pressing “1” zergs.
And HoT meta difficulty is ok, by the way.

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Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

Everything past the core game, old Tyria if you will, is overtuned. It is what is keeping this game from becoming a premier title. Solo personal stories are not solo personal stories. Well, I guess they are if you enjoy dying quite a bit when there is no matter of skill to prevent it.

The story is easy, I usually never die… I don’t know what game you are playing.

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

This means that “fixing” the players is what is needed and not reducing the difficulty. Better tutorials, better in-game information on how things work, better difficulty curve while leveling, is what is needed. Heart of Thorns difficulty is fine, it’s core tyria difficulty that is really low and needs to be increased, but not sudden spikes in difficulty, rather slower/gradual increases as players progress up the leveling process.

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

This means that “fixing” the players is what is needed and not reducing the difficulty. Better tutorials, better in-game information on how things work, better difficulty curve while leveling, is what is needed. Heart of Thorns difficulty is fine, it’s core tyria difficulty that is really low and needs to be increased, but not sudden spikes in difficulty, rather slower/gradual increases as players progress up the leveling process.

This right here. Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.

Thing is, HoT isn’t hard, and there’s lots of stuff you can’t do solo in core game, be it in higher areas, you can’t do alone either, so why complain about the newer maps but not about group content in older maps?

It’s sad that during the last AMA the devs said they don’t like reworking old stuff because the core game will be a crumbling foundation more and more with every new map and every expansion they put out.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.

It was already a joke. The core game was blanket nerfed in the original beta, basically halving everything. Enemy damage was originally a lot like HoT, even a little higher in some cases with dodge or die special attacks.

Most players simply do not want a challenge and attempting to force change will only come at a great loss, as they’ll simply go somewhere else. Look at any other MMO and solo content is usually a joke. ArenaNet has always been for the gamers however, rather than the majority. If they have no plans to continue supporting that audience, they really should revert the core game, simply to not mislead people early on.

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Failure is the reason it turned out this way. You don’t need a full map, not even half of one, but most people simply can’t handle the difficulty. The higher the chances of it failing, the less people will bother showing up. To counter this, people started using LFG to make a full map, which greatly reduces the difficulty simply due to numbers. As people taxi out of the other maps however, it causes them to die out, which is why there’s a bunch of empty maps and a single full one. The real problem here is that megaservers don’t fill up a map, but instead open a new one once a map is half filled.

From the perspective of the average player, the game is going to appear dead because they’re simply going to login and play, not LFG. These metas would have been far better off as activities, where you simply queued in and were automatically placed in teams.

So what is the solution? As far as I can tell, the bosses already scale to the number of players. The difficulty appears to derive from the required coordination such as killing 5 bosses spread across the jungle canopy while simultaneously controlling camps on the ground. Yet this is partially what makes the events fun and engaging and worth playing. Are you suggesting that we completely rework these events to require less coordination? Or what?

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

No, you just need to solo group content on your own and hold 20 rally points at once while killing all the bosses solo on an empty map because all the “group” players have moved on..
Easy right?
Group content made for groups that are not there even though that’s what the “groups” wanted…
In other words those that shouted loudest on the forums.
I got HOT a year ago and steadily over the last 6 months I see less and less players (that are not just gathering and running mobs into me) and I even went into the new LW stuff but it turns out it’s more of the same.
Big mobs with massive AOE damage and a lot of players AFK at WP’s.
Yet I still play because I have invested so much time into the GW games and there is nothing else out there to play.
(There is but I won’t go into why I stopped playing them.)
At the end of it all, I get to play a decent game for nothing. ( I am not F2P)
In the end, all the calls for group content has given me nothing.
I’ll play it but I always had a group in GW even if I was the only one online.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant.
Apologies to anyone who actually read it.

Due to inactivity…

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

As far as I can tell, the bosses already scale to the number of players.

Scaling wasn’t designed to keep up the challenge. The more you bring, the less each individual needs to contribute and that’s not even considering the fact that group buffs can easily double your damage, making it way off. Scaling needs to be adjusted so that either small groups have it just as easy, or zergs have it just as hard, which would likely always fail.

Are you suggesting that we completely rework these events to require less coordination? Or what?

The majority would certainly like it if it was a guaranteed win, just look at how populated easy bosses are, but as I said, the real problem is the joke that is megaservers. VB specifically is actually very easy, they all are, as it’s entirely a population problem. For VB, everyone simply needs to tag up, use that information to cover everything and knowing how to easily defend a camp can guarantee they never fall. Improvements to the UI would also be a lot of help, showing exactly when stuff will happen for example, instead of requiring outside timers, as most aren’t going to go outside the game.

The problem with commonly failing is that people stop trying, resulting in a dying population. Failing really shouldn’t be an option, and instead, it should simply take longer to complete. As is, you’re being punished twice, by wasting hours of your time and giving you nothing.

The problem with zerg metas is just that, they’re balanced for active maps. To prevent the population problem, it would be much easier if these types of events were split from the map and were something more like activities. That would allow them to be balanced for smaller/exact numbers, automate distribution/teams and they could potentially occur whenever.

As for what’s realistically going to happen however, HoT will likely be nerfed and the next expansion will simply avoid zerg content, just how season 3 is back to being balanced for 3+. Silverwastes was also nerfed when the population died down, reducing boss health by roughly 50%.

(edited by Healix.5819)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

I can’t agree, Stevie. There might be fewer people on the maps (as would be expected, with any aging content), but the average skill and familiarity of those present is greatly increased. If anything, it seems far easier to me now than before (and I spend little enough time in the maps that I still get lost and have no idea of the names of the various areas or HP etc).

As other people have stated, a lot of us find it easy enough to find successful PUG maps now than it was before. I’m not sure what you’re doing differently that you’re seeing something else.

The group content is a lot more fun generally for me than the usual running around alone that I can do in other games.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.

It was already a joke. The core game was blanket nerfed in the original beta, basically halving everything. Enemy damage was originally a lot like HoT, even a little higher in some cases with dodge or die special attacks.

Most players simply do not want a challenge and attempting to force change will only come at a great loss, as they’ll simply go somewhere else. Look at any other MMO and solo content is usually a joke. ArenaNet has always been for the gamers however, rather than the majority. If they have no plans to continue supporting that audience, they really should revert the core game, simply to not mislead people early on.

Oh, i know that the game was nerfed during the beta because People were screaming about the oh so high difficulty.
But the new player experience turned the game into an even greater joke for me.

HoT is what Lvl 80 content should be..
And i’m not saying the entire Level curve should be like that but let’s be honest, when you Level your character, gain your first Utility Slot and gain a skill that you will most likely ignore because it’s a condi counter and most low level mobs had their conditions removed… yeah..

Events should scale better, Veterans should have better builds than normal enemies, Elites should have better builds than Veterans (not just more HP) and, let’s say for example, every 10 or so Levels the Areas should add something for you to learn, CC, Conditions, Breakbars and so forth.

If you had all that during leveling not only would you feel more accomplished in the higher areas, given a decent rework, it would also make lvl 80 characters scaled down less of a powerhouse in the lower areas because they had to look out too.

Challenge can be done gradually so that it doesn’t feel too hard but just that amount that would make you learn something.
Know enough people who quit the game because the easy mode that is core tyria is too boring for them.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Know enough people who quit the game because the easy mode that is core tyria is too boring for them.

And then you read comments about GW2 being the “dark souls of mmorpgs” and realize that something is wrong with the community of this game.

LS1 did it the best. Every new mob added was higher difficulty than the core tyria mobs, but because it was temporary content, once it was done, players went back to farming the easy mode mobs until the next episode. More and more problems that resulted from the temporary nature of LS1

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Posted by: Plautze.6290

Plautze.6290

Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.

It was already a joke. The core game was blanket nerfed in the original beta, basically halving everything. Enemy damage was originally a lot like HoT, even a little higher in some cases with dodge or die special attacks.

Most players simply do not want a challenge and attempting to force change will only come at a great loss, as they’ll simply go somewhere else. Look at any other MMO and solo content is usually a joke. ArenaNet has always been for the gamers however, rather than the majority. If they have no plans to continue supporting that audience, they really should revert the core game, simply to not mislead people early on.

Oh, i know that the game was nerfed during the beta because People were screaming about the oh so high difficulty.
But the new player experience turned the game into an even greater joke for me.

HoT is what Lvl 80 content should be..
And i’m not saying the entire Level curve should be like that but let’s be honest, when you Level your character, gain your first Utility Slot and gain a skill that you will most likely ignore because it’s a condi counter and most low level mobs had their conditions removed… yeah..

Events should scale better, Veterans should have better builds than normal enemies, Elites should have better builds than Veterans (not just more HP) and, let’s say for example, every 10 or so Levels the Areas should add something for you to learn, CC, Conditions, Breakbars and so forth.

If you had all that during leveling not only would you feel more accomplished in the higher areas, given a decent rework, it would also make lvl 80 characters scaled down less of a powerhouse in the lower areas because they had to look out too.

Challenge can be done gradually so that it doesn’t feel too hard but just that amount that would make you learn something.
Know enough people who quit the game because the easy mode that is core tyria is too boring for them.

While I do agree to what you’re saying wholeheartedly, I don’t see this happen ever. It would be win or lose for ANet. Increase the difficulty gradually, depending on level/zone and most people will start crying that it’s too hard. Make dodge-or-die attacks (although I’m in for this as it makes the game more dynamic and finally gives some important use to dodges apart from negating damage and looking kitten) and they will cry because of that. Take a look at Dark Souls: Everbody is crying because it is so hard, yet it has a die-hard (heh) fan community. Granted, those are mostly crazed masochists, but at least they stick to their game. Because it used to be like that from the start. In the case of GW2, only die-hard fans who get fun out of HoT would stick to the game while most new gamers would perhaps drop it rather quickly.

Again, I do agree on your opinion, but I don’t see it happen. When I started this game, I couldn’t get enough of leveling. Right now, I’m bored of core Tyria (if it wasn’t for its beauty and places and dialogues and lore, I’d likely avoid it completely for some time) and can’t get enough of Tangled Depths (which I did truly despise on my first try). Irony.

Rohan Blackraven | Allister Mortis | Mindblower Torxx

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Posted by: battledrone.8315

battledrone.8315

Have been saying things along this line since the new player experience was put into the game and literally made the core game a joke.

It was already a joke. The core game was blanket nerfed in the original beta, basically halving everything. Enemy damage was originally a lot like HoT, even a little higher in some cases with dodge or die special attacks.

Most players simply do not want a challenge and attempting to force change will only come at a great loss, as they’ll simply go somewhere else. Look at any other MMO and solo content is usually a joke. ArenaNet has always been for the gamers however, rather than the majority. If they have no plans to continue supporting that audience, they really should revert the core game, simply to not mislead people early on.

Oh, i know that the game was nerfed during the beta because People were screaming about the oh so high difficulty.
But the new player experience turned the game into an even greater joke for me.

HoT is what Lvl 80 content should be..
And i’m not saying the entire Level curve should be like that but let’s be honest, when you Level your character, gain your first Utility Slot and gain a skill that you will most likely ignore because it’s a condi counter and most low level mobs had their conditions removed… yeah..

Events should scale better, Veterans should have better builds than normal enemies, Elites should have better builds than Veterans (not just more HP) and, let’s say for example, every 10 or so Levels the Areas should add something for you to learn, CC, Conditions, Breakbars and so forth.

If you had all that during leveling not only would you feel more accomplished in the higher areas, given a decent rework, it would also make lvl 80 characters scaled down less of a powerhouse in the lower areas because they had to look out too.

Challenge can be done gradually so that it doesn’t feel too hard but just that amount that would make you learn something.
Know enough people who quit the game because the easy mode that is core tyria is too boring for them.

While I do agree to what you’re saying wholeheartedly, I don’t see this happen ever. It would be win or lose for ANet. Increase the difficulty gradually, depending on level/zone and most people will start crying that it’s too hard. Make dodge-or-die attacks (although I’m in for this as it makes the game more dynamic and finally gives some important use to dodges apart from negating damage and looking kitten) and they will cry because of that. Take a look at Dark Souls: Everbody is crying because it is so hard, yet it has a die-hard (heh) fan community. Granted, those are mostly crazed masochists, but at least they stick to their game. Because it used to be like that from the start. In the case of GW2, only die-hard fans who get fun out of HoT would stick to the game while most new gamers would perhaps drop it rather quickly.

Again, I do agree on your opinion, but I don’t see it happen. When I started this game, I couldn’t get enough of leveling. Right now, I’m bored of core Tyria (if it wasn’t for its beauty and places and dialogues and lore, I’d likely avoid it completely for some time) and can’t get enough of Tangled Depths (which I did truly despise on my first try). Irony.

no, they didnt “stick to their game”, they came here, to a casual mmo , and demanded end game content
Anet delivered, and as a consequence, the majority of paying players left the game
have fun keeping this multimillion $$ game afloat without the support of the casual crowd
you will have to buy a LOT of gems

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

Silverwastes was also nerfed when the population died down, reducing boss health by roughly 50%.

That’s not what actually happened, they just forgot to buff the health of the Silverwastes bosses (or deliberately didn’t) after the specialization patch like they did with all the regular world bosses.

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Posted by: NotOverlyCheesy.9427

NotOverlyCheesy.9427

It’s not time to nerf the meta events and it’s important that events fail or otherwise there’s is no point. Just learn to use the tools available (LFG) and the game mechanics. For example leaving one mobile enemy alive while defending camps during the night in VB will stop additional waves from spawning.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

That’s not what actually happened, they just forgot to buff the health of the Silverwastes bosses (or deliberately didn’t) after the specialization patch like they did with all the regular world bosses.

As a zerker staff elementalist with the same build and gear, I can kill them in under half the time compared to soloing them back at release. Considering all the nerfs since then, frost bow for example, core elementalists probably dealt higher damage back then. They may have simply changed the scaling however, where instead of the usual 3+, they’re now 1+.

They also added the NPCs to help with the collections after the initial wave, though that may have been due to the need of a tutorial, showing you to dodge into the trees for example. That also made it much easier to solo.

And then you read comments about GW2 being the “dark souls of mmorpgs” and realize that something is wrong with the community of this game.

Compared to other MMOs, GW2 is the Dark Souls of MMOs when comparing the difficulty of solo content when actually played solo. In what other MMO can regular trash enemies, intended for solo play, easily kill you within 1-3 seconds, assuming similar builds and levels? Sure, you can simply bring more people to play the game on easy mode, but that’s really no different from the vertical progression of other MMOs.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Compared to other MMOs, GW2 is the Dark Souls of MMOs when comparing the difficulty of solo content when actually played solo. In what other MMO can regular trash enemies, intended for solo play, easily kill you within 1-3 seconds, assuming similar builds and levels? Sure, you can simply bring more people to play the game on easy mode, but that’s really no different from the vertical progression of other MMOs.

There is regular trash in GW2 that can kill you within 1-3 seconds?

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

There is regular trash in GW2 that can kill you within 1-3 seconds?

Haven’t you tried playing the game at the normal difficulty, as in one of the glass builds with only 11k health? You should know that many of the enemies since HoT are capable of doing so if you fail to avoid certain attacks, such as veteran smokescales (assault), shadowleapers (leap shot) or desolators (leap spam). Even simpler enemies, such as mordrem drakes, can crit for upwards of 10k with their basic attacks, though trivial to avoid, which can create humorous moments at the flax farm.

Personally, I’m always on the lookout for a game like Dark Souls, but with the content updates of an MMO. GW2 is the closest I’ve seen, as everyone else balances solo content for the casual majority. Beta was of course better and the speed of season 1 was the only release cycle to legitimately keep me active. ArenaNet even has the same group concept as Dark Souls, where it’s intended to be done solo, but bads can group up and think it’s normal. So, if you happen to know of any, I’d like to know.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

You should know that many of the enemies since HoT are capable of doing so if you fail to avoid certain attacks, such as veteran smokescales (assault), shadowleapers (leap shot) or desolators (leap spam). Even simpler enemies, such as mordrem drakes, can crit for upwards of 10k with their basic attacks, though trivial to avoid, which can create humorous moments at the flax farm.

The key point is “if you fail to avoid certain attacks”. Why fail? There are huge tells and last I checked you have lots of active defenses. The only difference with other mmorpgs is that you can’t be carried by gear and passive defenses. There are LOADS of mmorpgs out now that don’t have passive defenses and they aren’t easier than Guild Wars 2 at all. It’s becoming more of the norm than the exception and that’s a good thing, passive defenses lead to lazy players.

Veteran Smokescales aren’t “regular trash mobs”, regular Smokescales die in two hits by a proper glass build (one if you are a Thief). Shadowleapers in maybe 3 hits. Those mobs are built to die quickly but deal lots of damage if you let them, but you shouldn’t let them if have a properly built character.

And then we got Core Tyria where you can kill any mob in full glass gear without ever using dodge or any skill, only auto attacks. Even mobs in Orr (the “high end” zone of GW2) can be killed that way. There is absolutely nothing in the release game that requires you to use your skills to kill.

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Posted by: Namngulfvet.3408

Namngulfvet.3408

I agree its so difficult at times its like hitting a brick wall over and over and over and over. The fun is gone out of it. Im ready to deleted it over shear frustration

City Heat

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

Veteran Smokescales aren’t “regular trash mobs”, regular Smokescales die in two hits by a proper glass build (one if you are a Thief). Shadowleapers in maybe 3 hits. Those mobs are built to die quickly but deal lots of damage if you let them, but you shouldn’t let them if have a properly built character.

Sounds like you avoid veterans. You don’t actually think they’re for groups do you? Regardless, enemies don’t always come in singles, and packs are something you should be commonly dealing with. You may encounter a group of 5 enemies with 2 veteran shadowleapers for example as an extreme case at an event. I doubt the average player could even handle pulling more than one of the more deadly enemies, or even a single veteran, though you are forced to during the story, but can cheat.

The only point however was that enemies are capable of easily killing you, and although they have low health, so does the trash in Dark Souls. You said the key point was failing to avoid the attacks, but the same goes for Dark Souls. Personally, I find Dark Souls easier, but that’s not really a fair comparison because it’s 100% solo content whereas here I’m also soloing what you’d probably consider to be group content.

And then we got Core Tyria where you can kill any mob in full glass gear without ever using dodge or any skill, only auto attacks.

Sounds like how I play Dark Souls. I also played W3 on hard using only steps and the basic attack. Most skill based action games are like that, because it’s all about positioning and avoidance. Keep in mind that the core game wasn’t balanced for maxed out characters. Even Cursed Shore is intended for fresh 80s in rares.

If you meant that you can casually AFK enemies, obviously that’s an extreme exaggeration, as that’s only considering weak enemies 1 on 1. If that’s the case, what did you expect? A small group of nobles are going to kill you with their marks if you stand there. Although not a part of the original core, a simple reef drake is going to kill you with its puddle of death in melee range. They’re always fun to watch vs zergs.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

You don’t actually think they’re for groups do you?

They are not for groups but they are not an average trash mob. “Veteran”, or more challenging than normal, mobs exist in nearly every mmorpg out there and they all serve the same purpose, to be more like boss-like encounters for a single player, or if you go to an area that has lots of them, a place for groups. It’s not unique to GW2 to have more challenging foes out in the open world.

If you meant that you can casually AFK enemies, obviously that’s an extreme exaggeration, as that’s only considering weak enemies 1 on 1.

Trash mobs in GW2 are as easy to kill as trash mobs in any other game, you can casually afk kill them. Engaging multiple mobs, or harder (more rare) mobs, makes it harder but so does in any other mmorpg too. It’s not a feature unique to GW2, there are lots of different kinds of enemies in other mmorpgs too, both easy and hard.

GW2 is NOT a hard mmorpg

As for the topic of hard metas, GW2 has meta events, other mmorpgs have “elite/veteran zones”, entire areas of a map that are for groups only, including mobs similar to the elite and champions of GW2. They all have their uses and there is no nerf needed

(edited by maddoctor.2738)