Guild Wars 2

I have never really played WoW, but I feel tempted to switch.

I feel like all I´m doing in GW2 is grinding.

Grind the same events over and over again and then do grindy chest farming for a little bit of gold. Yes, HoT is harder, but it still feels like there is little skill involved in PVE because you are just running in a big zerg that steamrolls everything.

The problem is that you never get anything worthwhile when playing this game and you never get compensated for your efforts. You only grind for gold and there is never a feeling of excitement when killing mobs because you never get anything useful anyways.

I don´t mind grinding dungeons or raiding if you atleast have a chance to get decent drops. I enjoy Diablo3 and I guess the loot system in WoW is similar? Would I be better off playing WoW then?

I havent played wow in years. So i am hopefully out of date. But to me WoW was had far more grind then GW2. Now there were far more options and things to grind for. But it was all a grind.

Grind rep with this faction for starting gear. Grind dungeons with that gear for raid gear. Grind raids.

Grin rep 1 for pet 1. Grind rep 2 for pet 2. Grind rep 3 for pet 3. You get the idea.

More options but more grinding.

if sweet loots is what excites you you might like wow since its a hefty kitten gear grind where you’re always looking for the next tier of items

im surprised you’re grinding the same evetns over and over against since there are a lot of event chains in hot. Verdant Brink has five long daylight chains plus the nighttime security stuff. Auric Basin has the event chains for 4 outposts (which you probably wont do all of in one run), and then four different assault points for the octovine.

etc.

It’s not grindier.

No. No, it’s not grindier.

(Not even if grindier was a real word).

If you think GW2 is a grind, you’ll be shocked at how bad WoW is.

I’ve played MMOs my entire life going back to “The Realm Online” and GW2 has virtually zero grind compared to them.

- No gear treadmill
- No level treadmill
- Horizontal progression through non-required masteries (do not affect personal performance, see “Alternate Advancement” in other MMOs where you grind to improve your stats to give a competitive edge)

There is some grind in GW2 now for sure, but it’s not even on the same scale of other MMOs.

If it takes you three days of getting hero points to unlock an elite spec, that’s not a grind. Try weeks and months on other MMOs to unlock things.

First-off, if you switch to WoW you will be paying a subscription fee of $15/month. You can reduce this cost by throwing large amounts of gold at the game in lieu of money, but having never played before I would say you won’t get to that point any time soon so be prepared to pay extra.

Secondly, WoW content becomes obsolete after each expansion comes out. One thing the GW2 does well is being able to even go back to the starter zones and having somewhat good things drop for you and things to do as opposed to WoW where you camp in the new zones almost exclusively.

Thirdly, the WoW drops do eventually suffer from diminishing returns too. GW2 DR hits shortly after 80, but the game is built around it and your armor never becomes obsolete. WoW armor and weapons become obsolete after the next tier is added in (known as the “gear treadmill”) and all of your legendary gear is almost instantly worthless once an expansion hits. What WoW does do well is getting you to keep pushing to get the Best-in-Spec gear before it becomes obsolete. However, if they don’t update the game fast enough then you are stuck without a treadmill to run on and the game does get quite stale after that (the end of Cataclysm really turned me off to this whole process and I ended up quitting WoW because of it).

You’re doing it wrong. All I’ve done in HoT so far is explore and do things I consider enjoyable. I have my elite spec totally unlocked, made a good chunk of money from flax and other items I’ve come across, and I have most masteries I currently need. I have tagged a few events, but otherwise I haven’t even bothered with them. I did a couple of adventures, which were fun, solo’d some champs for hero points, etc.

You can grind if you want to, but I’d wager you’ll enjoy yourself much more if you treat it like an adventure game. If you play zelda, would you reload areas repeatedly to mow the grass for ten hours straight to make rupees? I sure hope not. Maybe you could afford everything in the game, but that’s not what it should be about.

Everytime people says GW2 and Grind in the same phrase it makes me laugh…you fellas never played a grindy game…If you feel GW2 grind is because you force yourself to make it so, like farming COF1 for Tyria Masteries instead of just playing…

Also people complain so much about overall masteries exp requirement but i just need like 4 unlocks to finish it and my issue are Mastery Points, not the exp…and with time i have like max 2h per day to play…And I’ve done in this time Halloween, PvP, WvW…

All MMO’s have grind. All of them. It’s because the business plan calls for infusions of money from players on a regular basis, whether that be via a subscription, a store, or both. The issue is whether one finds the content that must be repeated enjoyable.

GW2’s design model has always been weighted towards content where large herds of players deal with mobs. The herding has shifted somewhat so that herds have to separate into more, smaller herds in order to progress meta events. This is, I suppose, better because difficulty can be balanced around smaller groups of players.

That said, GW2 has shifted its focus. In vanilla, some zones also featured meta events. However, the zones were often about a variety of things, and the meta was just something that happened there. With DT/SW, it seems like the meta event is what the zone is about, and the few other odds and sods of content haphazardly strewn about are afterthoughts.

In vanilla, one could avoid the herds and still have a ton of enjoyable stuff to do. One could also get the virtual items that the game offers as rewards. The new model places the virtual rewards firmly in the (separated) herd content, and leaves what little remains hardly worth repeating.

I might not mind the shift in emphasis so much if liked herd content. Pity that I don’t.

I have to agree about not being rewarded for your efforts. Simply put, the rewards should be appropriate for the content you are doing. In WoW, that is the case. In GW2, it’s not.

The frustrating thing about GW2, is the constant junk loot it gives you for doing the hardest content. If I run Fractals or Raids, I should get Ascended or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. If I run Dungeons, I should get Rare or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. The only time I should be getting blues or greens is doing open world content. Unless it’s one of those massive world events, you should get gear that is relevant to the content you are doing. I shouldn’t be getting level 70 blues or even whites for doing high level Fractals.

As for grind, it all depends on what you are doing really, or what you are looking for. In my opinion, there is less grind in WoW than in GW2. Gold rains from the skies in WoW, enough to easily support any crafting or gearing you need. Even paying for your subscription with ingame gold. Especially now with WoD and Garrisons, you can easily gear up for raiding in a matter of hours.

GW2 on the other hand, seems to nerf any sort of gold making that you can find and has basically made it to the point of, buy gold with gems, or be poor. Or be prepared to farm for months on end to get anything. Gearing up in at least exotics is not too bad, if you have the gold to spend of course. If you don’t, good luck getting drops. Crafting is out of the question if you don’t have the gold as well. Ascended, don’t even think about it. When it comes to gearing, yeah. GW2 has more grind than WoW. The only good thing is, by the time you do finally get some decent gear, you won’t have to worry about the next expansion out-dating it. That is of course if they decide not to add another gear stronger than Ascended.

In my opinion, it is easier to gear up in WoW than it is in GW2. But they both have drawbacks. While GW2 is a grind to gear up if you don’t have the gold, your gear won’t ever get out-dated by an expansion (as long as they don’t make a new gear with better stats than Ascended). In WoW, it is really simple to get the gear you need to do any content, gold is easy to come by and you can craft raid tier epics. But when the next expansion arises, your gear will be out-dated and you’ll need to get the next highest level gear.

As for the events and tired of doing the same ones over and over, be glad you have events to keep doing over and over. In WoW, once you finish the quests in the area, there is no reason to go back to that area (except for mats). There is no more quest there for you to keep doing. At least the events in GW2 are always there for you to do, even if it is the same thing over and over.

So honestly it’s kind of a mix really. They both have good and bad sides, just decide which appeals more to you and then go from there. Hope that helps somewhat.

GW2 grind > WoW grind

GW2 variety > WoW variety

Second statement matters much more. For endgame WoW, it’s the same stale daily hubs in one lackluster zone. Starting in Mists, they tried to do some open-world stuff like GW2 has, but it ends up with the same open-world problems of “once it spawns, it’s dead,” so there’s no point.

For all of WoW’s verticality, the only goal is grind raids once a week, if you can even muster the patience to do it.

Where GW2 has a problem is that its grind is so punishing because it is largely luck and materials based, in order to serve a market mechanic that buoys around Legendary weapons and their precursors.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

I have to agree about not being rewarded for your efforts. Simply put, the rewards should be appropriate for the content you are doing. In WoW, that is the case. In GW2, it’s not.

The frustrating thing about GW2, is the constant junk loot it gives you for doing the hardest content. If I run Fractals or Raids, I should get Ascended or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. If I run Dungeons, I should get Rare or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. The only time I should be getting blues or greens is doing open world content. Unless it’s one of those massive world events, you should get gear that is relevant to the content you are doing. I shouldn’t be getting level 70 blues or even whites for doing high level Fractals.

As for grind, it all depends on what you are doing really, or what you are looking for. In my opinion, there is less grind in WoW than in GW2. Gold rains from the skies in WoW, enough to easily support any crafting or gearing you need. Even paying for your subscription with ingame gold. Especially now with WoD and Garrisons, you can easily gear up for raiding in a matter of hours.

GW2 on the other hand, seems to nerf any sort of gold making that you can find and has basically made it to the point of, buy gold with gems, or be poor. Or be prepared to farm for months on end to get anything. Gearing up in at least exotics is not too bad, if you have the gold to spend of course. If you don’t, good luck getting drops. Crafting is out of the question if you don’t have the gold as well. Ascended, don’t even think about it. When it comes to gearing, yeah. GW2 has more grind than WoW. The only good thing is, by the time you do finally get some decent gear, you won’t have to worry about the next expansion out-dating it. That is of course if they decide not to add another gear stronger than Ascended.

In my opinion, it is easier to gear up in WoW than it is in GW2. But they both have drawbacks. While GW2 is a grind to gear up if you don’t have the gold, your gear won’t ever get out-dated by an expansion (as long as they don’t make a new gear with better stats than Ascended). In WoW, it is really simple to get the gear you need to do any content, gold is easy to come by and you can craft raid tier epics. But when the next expansion arises, your gear will be out-dated and you’ll need to get the next highest level gear.

As for the events and tired of doing the same ones over and over, be glad you have events to keep doing over and over. In WoW, once you finish the quests in the area, there is no reason to go back to that area (except for mats). There is no more quest there for you to keep doing. At least the events in GW2 are always there for you to do, even if it is the same thing over and over.

So honestly it’s kind of a mix really. They both have good and bad sides, just decide which appeals more to you and then go from there. Hope that helps somewhat.

I would agree with most of this ^.
WoW may have a gear treadmill. But, to me GW2 feels grindier than WoW has ever been.

Dont toss around the term grind unless you know what it truelly means.Grind is normally something boring and to some yes the game will be grindier because they dont enjoy it but to most of us no it not grindier its fun.

If you think GW2 is grind, try playing Destiny. Ugh…

Another thread about grinding? Really?

WoW has a trial version that lets you get to level 20. Why not get that and try the game. I suggest you also ask in map chat what people think about it. I hear that WoW players are an especially friendly, helpful sort and would be glad to tell you where to go (to get the least grind, of course).

I thought I had finally found some real insight and reviews. Some people were saying WoW was grindier but you had to get a new grinder whenever some sort of upgrade came out. Others said GW2 was a more long lived grinder that was harder to learn but you didn’t have to get rid of it when a new model came out. But now I’m starting to think we aren’t talking about coffee grinders at all. Well I guess that teaches me to use the “I’m feeling lucky button” on google. It’s too bad, I was all set to buy the GW2 grinder.

Not really, but GW2 doesn’t do anything to hide the grind like WoW or other MMOs do. The gear treadmill in WoW is a “grind”, but it doesn’t feel as daunting or as unrewarding as the horizontal/cosmetic grind(or realistically, it’s all just a gold grind) does in GW2.

You feel like you accomplish something in the short term with WoW so it’s easier to keep doing the grindy stuff like the Legendary ring quest. It’s harder to motivate yourself to work on a Legendary or even Ascended gear in GW2 because there’s no progress feedback within the game.

I have been playing since beta 3 yrs ago. Evens out to about 2 to 3 hours a day. I have never yet grinded anything or anywhere. I am now working on 3 or 4 legendaries at a time. Grinding? Nope just playing and the parts are appearing from the drops from killing things just from playing the game.
I don’t rush in any game to get to “end game” since to me “end game” means that when you get to that the game is done and I don’t want the game to end, I am enjoying it quite a bit.

Hell no. WoW is totally more grindy.

Haven’t played the new stuff in WOW but old school it was pretty brutal. Doing 40 man raids which take 2+ hrs have 1 maybe two items drop per boss. You can only imagine how long it took to gear up 40 people with specific sets to do it all again on a new raid lol.

So say 5 bosses per raid, get around 10 drops in 2 hours so lets say that gears one person. So to gear 40 people it would take 80 hours but the drops are random so a specific boss might not drop your last piece you need for 10-20 times doing it which turns it from 80 hours to prob 200 and that’s just one dungeon

Then of course there was the weeks on end learning the raid in the first place before you even get any drops..Oh yeah! Those were the days when hard core players meant something. Taking 2 days to get 250 hero points is pretty care bear.

I can’t agree. I don’t see how this is grinding. One can achieve everything here fairly easy.

To those who think this is grinding: what do you expect? To do the computer all the work for you or what?

Honestly now, those who think this game is grinding haven’t played games like Lineage 2 on the lowest rates.

Try more games before you speak.

You feel like you’re grinding because you’re only concerned with rewards rather than the act of playing the game. There are some decent rewards to be have if you’re into certain things; a lot of things are bought with gold…

You’d have a lot more fun if you treat drops as a consequence of playing rather than your end goal. Your goal should be to enjoy playing the game; playing the game shouldn’t be an obstacle for a carrot.

If you sit doing the same event for hours on end; that’s on you, not on the game. There are so many events different events and activities in the new zones, calling doing “events” grind is a misnomer. You’re hardly doing the same thing over and over again unless you choose to do the same event in the same spot.

This game has barely any ‘true’ grind. The only grind that’s here is for those who choose to grind; like the mad king lab trains or the CoF mastery farm. Those 2 are grinds, but I’d hardly say they’re mandatory… not at all comparable to doing events in the new zones. Even legendaries are notably less grindy now that you no long have to play the lottery for hours to get a precursor.

WoW has very little grind while leveling; but the end game is nothing but grind. Once you arrive at the level cap in WoW; you’ll spend the majority of your time grinding out dungeons over and over for gear; most high end raids demand you to have proper consumables, so if you’ll be farming for herbalism mats, food mats, ect. I remember spending hours farming mats for flasks in Cataclysm so that I’d be raid ready.

Raids were the best part of WoW’s endgame. Since they’re so long and usually interesting mechanically, they never felt grindy….. until they added raid finder and then raids became the next step up from dungeon grinding; then when you had the gear you needed from raid finder; you do the exact same raids you’ve already farmed, except harder.

Gotchaz.7865:

Taking 2 days to get 250 hero points is pretty care bear.

I don’t think hero points were ever meant to be difficult to get; just a way to gate content so you don’t get everything at once.

Legendaries are what suppose to represent the hardcore. The old ones don’t because of their trade-able nature; but the new ones do seem to do what the old ones were suppose to do.

Oh; and raids are coming soon; and from playing the first boss; they seem promising. The legendary armor from those will probably be a good indicator of player skill and dedication.

I played WoW for quite a while.

WoW is a lot grindier than Gw2, especially the leveling up process. The leveling up process in WoW is absolutely awful in my opinion when compared to Gw2. It’s all just kill a million bears and collect a zillion little magical orbs and stuff like that. The higher level grinds are fairly tolerable though because you get rewards that actually mean something and rewards that help you – pets, mounts, great cosmetics, nifty little objects that allow you to do useful and funny things – rockets and invisibility for any class if you level up some engineering.

Doing things like getting exalted status for some factions were just impossible for me. It just took too long doing the same dungeons/raids over and over.

Some things in WoW also depending a lot on getting lucky. I tried hundreds upon hundreds of times to get that phoenix mount from the Sunstrider raid (I forget what it’s called) and I never actually got it in the end even though it’s supposed to be sort of easy to get compared to some other raid rewards. It was absolutely excruciating and all for nothing. It was also extremely easy which made it all the more boring. Whenever soloing any content, I really just pressed ‘starfall’ on my druid and watched everything in sight die instantly.

Gw2 also feels a lot less grindy to me because the combat is so much more dynamic. In WoW I’d really just stand in one spot on my moonkin using very predictable and simple rotations because you can’t move whilst casting spells. This is why very specific specialisations absolutely dominated in PvP – I’m thinking of feral druids who (as I remember it) had probably the best mobility. There was a much larger gap between the best and worst classes in both PvP and PvE.

Ultimately, I just played WoW less and less once I discovered Gw2 until it just wasn’t worth paying the monthly fee. Gw2 is much, much less of a grind than WoW. Gw2 is one of the least grindy games I’ve ever played. WoW is still a great game though; it’d definitely be one of my first thoughts if I stopped playing Gw2.

If you think GW2 is a grind try real life.

It’s grind is undefeated.

GW was not really grindy before HoT, but sadly many of the new pve zones require a lot of grinding if you want new gear. SW was the same way, but it felt a lot less grindy because the zone currency and xp rewards were much better.

While we’re on the subject, anet better nerf or scale the HoT zones’ meta events better. I’m taking my time exploring and the TD meta events keep failing for lack of people.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

I have to agree about not being rewarded for your efforts. Simply put, the rewards should be appropriate for the content you are doing. In WoW, that is the case. In GW2, it’s not.

The frustrating thing about GW2, is the constant junk loot it gives you for doing the hardest content. If I run Fractals or Raids, I should get Ascended or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. If I run Dungeons, I should get Rare or Exotic level 80 gear to drop. The only time I should be getting blues or greens is doing open world content. Unless it’s one of those massive world events, you should get gear that is relevant to the content you are doing. I shouldn’t be getting level 70 blues or even whites for doing high level Fractals.

As for grind, it all depends on what you are doing really, or what you are looking for. In my opinion, there is less grind in WoW than in GW2. Gold rains from the skies in WoW, enough to easily support any crafting or gearing you need. Even paying for your subscription with ingame gold. Especially now with WoD and Garrisons, you can easily gear up for raiding in a matter of hours.

GW2 on the other hand, seems to nerf any sort of gold making that you can find and has basically made it to the point of, buy gold with gems, or be poor. Or be prepared to farm for months on end to get anything. Gearing up in at least exotics is not too bad, if you have the gold to spend of course. If you don’t, good luck getting drops. Crafting is out of the question if you don’t have the gold as well. Ascended, don’t even think about it. When it comes to gearing, yeah. GW2 has more grind than WoW. The only good thing is, by the time you do finally get some decent gear, you won’t have to worry about the next expansion out-dating it. That is of course if they decide not to add another gear stronger than Ascended.

In my opinion, it is easier to gear up in WoW than it is in GW2. But they both have drawbacks. While GW2 is a grind to gear up if you don’t have the gold, your gear won’t ever get out-dated by an expansion (as long as they don’t make a new gear with better stats than Ascended). In WoW, it is really simple to get the gear you need to do any content, gold is easy to come by and you can craft raid tier epics. But when the next expansion arises, your gear will be out-dated and you’ll need to get the next highest level gear.

As for the events and tired of doing the same ones over and over, be glad you have events to keep doing over and over. In WoW, once you finish the quests in the area, there is no reason to go back to that area (except for mats). There is no more quest there for you to keep doing. At least the events in GW2 are always there for you to do, even if it is the same thing over and over.

So honestly it’s kind of a mix really. They both have good and bad sides, just decide which appeals more to you and then go from there. Hope that helps somewhat.

You can easily aquire your whole Exotic Set with tokens from Dungeons, not even a single copper is needed for that. GW2 is as grindy as a MMO should be. Yes they nerfed many methods of Gold making, but i cant see the disadvantage so far, eventhough its annoying when it happens.

Alot of people don’t realize what ’’grinding’’ actually means. And please, try to not give me the definition of ’’grind’’. There is a difference between what grind is considered in theory and how it goes to experience it practically.

When you grind a couple of weeks or even months for a single gear set so that one month later, they tell you there is a newer gear stronger than yours and you should get it if you want to advance, you will then realize what the grind means. Alot of people are getting angry over grinding a day or two. Try grinding for weeks to reach a level cap or months to get gear that is REQUIRED to advance further and then tell me about grind.

GW2 is as grindy as you want it to be. Want to grind the same event/mobs over and over?
You can do that, but it’s your own fault.

I swear from what I’ve been reading lately, people are equating grind with not having everything in the game instantly.

If you’re finding getting your masteries is a grind, then you’re either grinding CoF (which again, is your own fault), or you just hate the core gameplay of GW2. You’re welcome to hold that position, but why complain on the forums when you could just solve all of your issues by not playing anymore? If you’re playing the game just to get rewards, what’s the point of even playing? What is the point of getting some shiny new item if you don’t even enjoy playing the game?

The only grind is making legendaries in gw2, everything else is easy lol

The one thing that may make GW2 feel more grindy then WoW is in WoW when you finally did get that full set you wore it like a badge of honor! lol the gear was better all around in PvE and PvP. Where GW2 you’re mostly working towards getting a new skin so it doesn’t feel all that rewarding.

GW2 is less grindy…

If you use cash shop boosters that is.

Only place to get good exp in HoT zones is grinding on the same 24 vet spiders for hours on end. I recal doing the EXACT same kinda thing in Runes of Magic, a korean MMO that was hardcore grind…unless you paid money for boosters/premium then it wasn’t so grindy. See a trend here?

At least in WoW, I don’t need to spend any money past the sub inorder to have a good game experience. Also, you cannot simply cut out years of grinding with RL money like you can in GW2. One game you have to play it, no short cuts. The other you can throw RL money at a problem and it will go away. Obviously, cash shoppers love the latter thus love GW2 more and with good reason.

To each their own style of ‘playing’ I guess.

Simple answer? No.

Long answer? Definitely no, the only items in game that currently emulate the mere thought of a ‘grind’ would be the Legendary Precursors, but that was changed with the introduction of Precursor crafting which gives you not a grind but a journey.

It’s not a grind to play a game in a certain zone and do all sorts of activities there.
It is a grind if you make it one, there are no forced grinds in GW2. None, and it should stay like that. Getting the pieces of the Bladed Set by organizing your VB maps and doing activities there is not a grind. It would have been one if those Veteran Spiders were the only mobs in the whole zone that dropped Airship parts. That’s the difference.

Progression =/= Grind.

World of Warcraft Experience:

You join a party, “Hi all”.
Reply, “Get the &%# -over here you &%#$ newb!”

You have played a dungeon for 6 months for ONE piece of armor you NEED to PLAY with your dungeon ‘friends’.
You don’t get it.
Your Guild and ‘friends’ relegate you to the status of an incompetent player and inconvenience to everyone.
You still get that drop you need.
Your Guild finds ways to make sure you go on the lowest pecking order.

You decide maybe it is more your class than this armor issue. So you choose a Priest. This will turn out well, right? It’s the big healer of the game.
Actually, you were wrong. It is Druid. You’ll discover this after level 5,000^nth and that many more hours of playing some dungeon that by now you’d rather stab your eyes out than play one more time for that chance of progressing so you can play at all.

World of Warcraft was only good from 2004 to 2008. It’s also American primarily. If you haven’t experienced American’s being incredibly, racist, sexist, straight up misogynistic, and all around rude for the thrill of it… then I’d totally recommend …actually no… I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Don’t play WoW. Just don’t.

This game may feel grindier since WoW has so much more content to choose from if you’re new to the game.

Also, whether you feel this way depends on your playstyle and preferences. GW2 feels really different from a lot of other games.

For me, a lot of things in this game are grindier than some other games. The crafting, for instance, feels a lot grindier here to me than LOTRO’s (another game I play) because of the sheer volume of mats I need to craft here.

HoT grind is more noticeable, in WoW you’ll do dailies/dungeons to get gear just like here but it’s more varied and there is plenty to do if you want a break from modern content.

HoT just feels like 4 different varieties of meta event grind

In my experience, WoW has a lot of short- and long-term goals in the way of Raiding and side activities. There’s lots of content so for a new player there’s plenty of stuff to explore. Doing raids and similar stuff will ensure every now and then you get a new shiny item with a bit of (or lots of) a power boost. There’s a long term progression but since there’s tiers to endgame content one can be content at a certain level and still feel there’s more to do. Exploring the world at max level will mean that you are doing it for achievements and/or the fun of it though, as you’re not really gaining much of anything while killing the low-lvl mobs etc. You can go to the old raids every week to try for some cool transmogs or rare pets, with varying degrees of success depending on rng. Personally I was all over the fishing achievements and have always gone for completing all of them each expansion.

GW2 is different in that most of everything you do can go toward any specific goal you have in mind. A lot of GW2 rewards and goals lie in getting that full ascended and completing collections / getting skins. A lot of that can be gained with gold and gold can be gained from anything. You never outlevel the content thanks to scaling and you can always work toward what you want by doing what you want (to a certain degree). The goals in GW2 are further away but once you reach them, they are done. In wow every couple of years the playing field is reset and we’re back to going down the same road again.

I think both of these games can be seen as “grindy” simply because they appeal to two different psychologies. Some players enjoy small gradual rewards while getting a fresh start again each expansion when they feel they’ve hit their ceiling with the current content. This is the same reason people enjoy seasons in Diablo 3. This can annoy people who don’t like their efforts to be invalidated. GW2 appeals to people who want their rewards to be permanent, and want to reach their goals over time. In turn, GW2 can annoy people who want feedback or checkpoints for their end goals, and thus feel dissatisfied looking at the long road ahead rather than the short stops on the way.

WoW grind is about punching in and out on that daily/weekly, knowing what to expect and being rewarded each step of the way. GW2 is more doing it on your own time with less impactful rewards but with less pressure to rush to the end.

I personally like both and see the virtues of each system. I also play them very differently.

I think grind is an unhelpful term because people interpret it very differently and what really lies at the core is the satisfaction with the ratio and nature of reward to work put in. And that ratio is not as simple as amount of work/playtime = amount of reward but must include additional factors and dimensions. For example, the distribution of appropriate rewards and the psychology of how the player experiences and approaches that playtime (smaller checkpoints vs. one long haul, specific locations with specific rewards vs. similar rewards globally). It’s about long-term goals vs. short-term goals, temporary vs. permanent (either of which can be negative or positive depending on the player and their tastes!).

Try WoW free to lvl 20 and see what you think. Your GW2 progress won’t go anywhere (which is why I love being able to take a month off without feeling I’m lagging behind!)

I’m not sure if hot is more grindy or equally grindy but you sure as hell notice the grind more in gw2. I’m a long time gw2 player (since beta) and a vet of wow as well and I can tell you that what ever grind you have to do in WoW Is less noticeable because of the reward structure. You work for everything other than the occasional hyper expensive mount (for which you farm gold). When new content in WoW comes out you know you can earn that reward by either being a good enough players or playing the content (not farming for more gold). Not only does wow feel less grindy due to the nature of the content you’re doing, but you also see your character getting stronger (yay for 10% better ascended or whatever % it’s at now? Lol). When I finished shadowmourne not only was it an insane journey (for which I farmed zero gold) but when I got it the axe accumulated souls as I killed things and then would burst those souls outward doing amazing damage. When I finished twilight i…. well had space looking footprints? Lol I like the sword but all the gameplay (gold farming) just burned me out. I love both games very much but I believe gw2s reward system is severely flawed and tries to make you take out your wallet any time something cool comes out.

Don’t play WoW but its certainly grindier than SWTOR.

Ive played games like WoW, Lineage, Lineage2, EVE Online, SWToR, SWG, Everquest and a few whose names escape me right now. I know what grind is. ALL online games have a grind element. It keeps players playing longer which equals potential revenue for the developers. In GW1, if you made it to certain places in the game, and got a “runner” to take you to where max armor was, you could poteniallly be a level 5 with max armor. Grind was pretty much only somewhat in the underworld in order to gain what was needed for Obsidian armor whose only advantage was it looked different from other max level armor.

With that said, GW2 does possess a higher level of grind than we experienced in GW1. I hate grind, but its a mechanic in just about all great MMO’s. As gamers we just have to accept that.

As for HoT grind, I do feel the mastery system is too skewered. To gain the mastery, you end up having to do a rather boring amount of grind. For Tyrian masteries, for people who have characters that have been here since the launch of GW2, I feel they are at a huge disadvantage because of the grind requirement. Myself, I get bored after an hour of running around Orr killing everhyting red. For the new HoT areas, the grind just sucks the life out of the storyline for me.

My solution: I jumped off the mindless grind train. I play the game, emerse myself in the story and work on living stories for my level 80’s and tyria for my under 80’s. I really dont care for the mastery system’s clunky feel so rather than let it ruin my game, I exited the train and am taking the scenic country back roads, and enjoyingmyself.

The Mastery grind is worse than EQ1 Hell levels, and you can De-level in that game !
Tho never seen WoW as a grind, i quit that game mostly do to the daily gating.

I have 42 mastery points so far and haven’t used a farming exploit. The grind is a lot worse if people aren’t using boosters or forget them when they run out. Also if they’re not in a group and they’re trying to solo things it’ll be slower.

No. It’s been a few years since I played but the fact that it even has a gear treadmill says it’s more grind. By the time you get the current best in slot there is a new tier. Not once in the three years I played it did I ever have the best in slot in every slot.

Seriously? Literally the most practical masteries like Bouncing Shrooms and Gliding with Updraft are gotten in a few days, or even a week.

People are creating their own grinds, slow down folks, appreciate the content a bit more!

Rofl far from it.