Killing Vinetooth prime

Killing Vinetooth prime

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ryuko.1497

Ryuko.1497

I’ve been after this for a little while now, and I’ve not heard good luck from many others. This boss is an insane boss to kill, I’ve never seen it die, only seen it fail. No one ever seems to want to do the pre-event but have no qualms showing up to reap the rewards from the final boss ,thus increasing its difficulty to a point they fail to properly contribute to defiance.

Is there a special place I’m missing good LFG’s? Is there a hot peak time?

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Have you created your own LFG to do the pre-events and then not announce it on map chat?

Killing Vinetooth prime

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Posted by: Ryuko.1497

Ryuko.1497

Have you created your own LFG to do the pre-events and then not announce it on map chat?

I’ve done LFG’s , unfortunately they’ve never gone anywhere, no one wants to join for the last pylon so you don’t waste time, they only want to have an easy path for the final fight, thus setting you up to need to rely on the map.

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Posted by: zoomborg.9462

zoomborg.9462

Just pray u dont have many pewpew rangers…most just camp lb and use 4 off cooldown cause……reasons.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It doesn’t take many people to kill the Vinetooth as long as you’re coordinated and everyone breaks the bar. The more people the harder it is to break the bar. I’ve done it with five, six people before, but we were coordinated and everyone had CC on their bar to break it when it came up.

That’s how you do it. You don’t need 20 people. You need 5 good people.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

I don’t see the problem 2 power Revs can easily break bad the Vinetooth prime and kill it easily. Sorry if people aren’t good enough to pack Cc and scale it up

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

I’ve been after this for a little while now, and I’ve not heard good luck from many others. This boss is an insane boss to kill, I’ve never seen it die, only seen it fail. No one ever seems to want to do the pre-event but have no qualms showing up to reap the rewards from the final boss ,thus increasing its difficulty to a point they fail to properly contribute to defiance.

Is there a special place I’m missing good LFG’s? Is there a hot peak time?

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar. Although I have seen Vinetooth killed several times since HoT was released, most of the time it is just brute force damage. This is true for many other bosses with defiance bars: if people can’t brute force the damage, they can’t kill it because hardly anyone bothers with the defiance bar.

I wonder whether the giant Anomalies that run around core Tyria ever get killed anymore. I’ve participated in 2 hunts over the past 6 months which both failed despite a huge zerg pursuing it.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Unfortunately, that is a general issue all across Tyria, because the game does not explain the mechanic, so newbies don’t know what it is and what it does (and what they can do about it). The countless times I have read someone asking in text chat “What does CC mean?” and “What is a break/defiance bar?”…

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Posted by: LONGA.1652

LONGA.1652

Most wandering Pugs won’t change skill to meet encounter requirement.
Make an LFG , use notepad to coply/paste what need to be done to your squad.
I suggest that you don’t bring more than 10 people due to scaling making it hard to CC consistently.

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Posted by: Kiza.5630

Kiza.5630

Vinetooth can be a bit tricky to kill. From my experience, what you definitely should not do is put an entry into LFG “gogo vinetooth”, get to the map right after reset and start eastwatch. By the time you’ll reach the vinetooth you will have too many ppl for an easy kill via breaking the cc bar and too few to zerg it to death.

The small scale “professional” version: gather 5-10 ppl who can break the cc bar in a coordinated way. Don’t announce anything, just do your thing on an empty map. Maps that are marked for closing are good for this as no new ppl will join. This will take you ~30 mins.

The zerg version: get to an event map that is advertised on LFG after reset. 45 mins before the challenges start, advertise eastwatch events on the map chat and start it. Should take ~20 mins or so with 5+ ppl to reach the 3rd pylon. Once there, the commander most likely will come over with his squad. This will take you ~1h 30 mins.

In the vinetooth den, against the southwestern exit, there is an adrenal mushroom. Tell the map to fight it near there so ppl can refresh their cc skills. Equip as many cc skills as you can, don’t rely on others doing it.

If the bar is not broken a full squad will usually take care of the vinetooth without it. I’ve organized many Auric Basin maps and I have rarely see it fail. The only time it fails fairly often is with an “angry vinetooth kill squad” that goes there as soon as the map resets (see first paragraph).

If you’re on EU servers, ask me ingame if you’re still unlucky.

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Posted by: Sarpan.9074

Sarpan.9074

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Unfortunately, that is a general issue all across Tyria, because the game does not explain the mechanic, so newbies don’t know what it is and what it does (and what they can do about it). The countless times I have read someone asking in text chat “What does CC mean?” and “What is a break/defiance bar?”…

You hit the nail right on the head. While I’m not exactly a noob, the defiance bar was new to me when I returned to the game in the last few months. I had to look up what people were talking about. Yeah, I knew what CC is, but not how it applied in this case.

The Wiki has a pretty good explanation, but you have to know about it to begin with to look it up and educate yourself.

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Aye. Basically, if the group doesn’t even break the defiance bar once, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll fail. Sometimes if there’s a big enough group with enough doing decent damage, they can take it down on sheer zerg power.

But breaking the defiance bar even once makes a huge difference.

It’s one of those things that should probably be nerfed when the new expansion comes out. The time you have to break the defiance bar doesn’t leave a lot of room for mistakes. And he tends to do a jump or run right at that part, making it all the harder for people to land their CC.

And I don’t think the defiance bar failure is just a matter of people not knowing what to do. You need to have good reaction time and not have wasted your CC already to hit him with it at the right time. Which for some classes, builds, and players, is just harder than for others.

I think people may be underestimating the general competence of the playerbase on this one. It’s not an easy fight for an uncoordinated pug environment (which is what most of GW2 open world is).

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Aye. Basically, if the group doesn’t even break the defiance bar once, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll fail. Sometimes if there’s a big enough group with enough doing decent damage, they can take it down on sheer zerg power.

But breaking the defiance bar even once makes a huge difference.

It’s one of those things that should probably be nerfed when the new expansion comes out. The time you have to break the defiance bar doesn’t leave a lot of room for mistakes. And he tends to do a jump or run right at that part, making it all the harder for people to land their CC.

And I don’t think the defiance bar failure is just a matter of people not knowing what to do. You need to have good reaction time and not have wasted your CC already to hit him with it at the right time. Which for some classes, builds, and players, is just harder than for others.

I think people may be underestimating the general competence of the playerbase on this one. It’s not an easy fight for an uncoordinated pug environment (which is what most of GW2 open world is).

Why would they be using their cc skills when their CC wouldn’t do anything? That would indicate low level of understanding and lack of skill.

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Posted by: Labjax.2465

Labjax.2465

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Aye. Basically, if the group doesn’t even break the defiance bar once, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll fail. Sometimes if there’s a big enough group with enough doing decent damage, they can take it down on sheer zerg power.

But breaking the defiance bar even once makes a huge difference.

It’s one of those things that should probably be nerfed when the new expansion comes out. The time you have to break the defiance bar doesn’t leave a lot of room for mistakes. And he tends to do a jump or run right at that part, making it all the harder for people to land their CC.

And I don’t think the defiance bar failure is just a matter of people not knowing what to do. You need to have good reaction time and not have wasted your CC already to hit him with it at the right time. Which for some classes, builds, and players, is just harder than for others.

I think people may be underestimating the general competence of the playerbase on this one. It’s not an easy fight for an uncoordinated pug environment (which is what most of GW2 open world is).

Why would they be using their cc skills when their CC wouldn’t do anything? That would indicate low level of understanding and lack of skill.

Some attacks are hybrids, meaning the application and usefulness of them goes beyond simply “this is CC — use it when you need to CC and never otherwise.” For example, Scrapper Hammer 5 skill is a minor CC, but it’s also a combo field.

Or words to that effect.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I think that the biggest problem is people not breaking the defiance bar.

Aye. Basically, if the group doesn’t even break the defiance bar once, there’s a pretty good chance they’ll fail. Sometimes if there’s a big enough group with enough doing decent damage, they can take it down on sheer zerg power.

But breaking the defiance bar even once makes a huge difference.

It’s one of those things that should probably be nerfed when the new expansion comes out. The time you have to break the defiance bar doesn’t leave a lot of room for mistakes. And he tends to do a jump or run right at that part, making it all the harder for people to land their CC.

And I don’t think the defiance bar failure is just a matter of people not knowing what to do. You need to have good reaction time and not have wasted your CC already to hit him with it at the right time. Which for some classes, builds, and players, is just harder than for others.

I think people may be underestimating the general competence of the playerbase on this one. It’s not an easy fight for an uncoordinated pug environment (which is what most of GW2 open world is).

Why would they be using their cc skills when their CC wouldn’t do anything? That would indicate low level of understanding and lack of skill.

Some attacks are hybrids, meaning the application and usefulness of them goes beyond simply “this is CC — use it when you need to CC and never otherwise.” For example, Scrapper Hammer 5 skill is a minor CC, but it’s also a combo field.

Anyone doing Vinetooth should save their CC period though. I don’t care that it’s a combo field. It’s not worth missing the bar break…if you have a chance to break the bar, on that one encounter you do.

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Posted by: zoomborg.9462

zoomborg.9462

Best vinetooth is with 5-10 good peeps. Anymore and it becomes a mess. Funny part is a lot of commanders explain about the breakbar b4 the fight but most people are too dumb/lazy to listen. Open world players ftw.

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

It’s not just that people think a nebulous “someone else” will do it, or that tactics are unnecessary. It’s also a combination of the Vinetooth and some similar bosses 1) being bouncy little gits, 2) having some pretty nasty AoE/CC themselves, and 3) the bar only being up for a very short time. If you’re melee and you have to spend half that time running towards the boss because it just charged or jumped clear across the area, and/or you need to avoid its AoE, you sometimes barely manage to hit it once or twice. That’s not going to amount to much.

Then people get reckless trying get more breakbar damage in, but die in the AoE as a result. Or, alternatively, most of the group decides that breaking the bar isn’t going to happen anyway, give up after the second or even first failed break attempt, and probably avoid the fight altogether in the future.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

It’s not just that people think a nebulous “someone else” will do it, or that tactics are unnecessary. It’s also a combination of the Vinetooth and some similar bosses 1) being bouncy little gits, 2) having some pretty nasty AoE/CC themselves, and 3) the bar only being up for a very short time. If you’re melee and you have to spend half that time running towards the boss because it just charged or jumped clear across the area, and/or you need to avoid its AoE, you sometimes barely manage to hit it once or twice. That’s not going to amount to much.

Then people get reckless trying get more breakbar damage in, but die in the AoE as a result. Or, alternatively, most of the group decides that breaking the bar isn’t going to happen anyway, give up after the second or even first failed break attempt, and probably avoid the fight altogether in the future.

Just sat through two failures recently. -_- Both times, between the bouncing and the short time frame to break, the zerg didn’t even manage to get half the bar down. With a hammer warrior, I contributed the best I could, usually getting in all my hard CCs, or at least two of them (stupid bouncing BS…), but I suspect that the Defiance scaling is just too much.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Zerging it is usually the least reliable way. Unfortunately not everyone has the option to not zerg it as someone always announces it on map chat or calls for more people falsely thinking that that is necessary.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

I did it with 9 people. I had 3 powerful CC on my skill selection, and there were 3 chronos giving alacrity. Most people had some decent CC. We killed it in less than 4 minutes.

“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks

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Posted by: Sarpan.9074

Sarpan.9074

Why would they be using their cc skills when their CC wouldn’t do anything? That would indicate low level of understanding and lack of skill.

Where in game play is the defiance bar mechanic explained before you get to the tough boss fights?

I never ran across it until joining a Vinetooth Prime group a while back and it being talked about afterward as the reason we failed. That prompted me to do some research and educate myself on it.

But, without being involved in a fight where it exists, how are you supposed to know about it and how to use your CC for the bar? If there’s somewhere this is explained or trained in the game, letting folk know about that would be very helpful.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Why would they be using their cc skills when their CC wouldn’t do anything? That would indicate low level of understanding and lack of skill.

Where in game play is the defiance bar mechanic explained before you get to the tough boss fights?

I never ran across it until joining a Vinetooth Prime group a while back and it being talked about afterward as the reason we failed. That prompted me to do some research and educate myself on it.

But, without being involved in a fight where it exists, how are you supposed to know about it and how to use your CC for the bar? If there’s somewhere this is explained or trained in the game, letting folk know about that would be very helpful.

It’s covered in a couple of the recent story missions, but not in any explicit way, as we’d find in a true tutorial.

But honestly, it doesn’t matter if there is or is not a tutorial. BDO has a fantastic tutorial system (with screenshots and videos that you can access from within the game). That doesn’t mean that most people playing that game know when it matters or how their class should approach different bosses. In the end, people are going to have to learn something through external sources, including guides, video guides, and help from others.

When I’m “leading” an open world exercise, I assume that everyone is new to the fight and its mechanics. I’ll type out the key elements, as well as suggest a few easily-accessed skills that can help. I’ve never seen any boss fail when folks did this ahead of time, before the fight was in progress — that includes Vinetooth Prime and all the various metas. (Correction: I’ve seen Triple Trouble fail, but in both cases, someone started an event too soon, and the commanders ran out of time to explain.)

So sure, there’s a narrow window to break defiance. And yes, the fight is hard for larger groups if that doesn’t happen. All the same, it can be done and it continues to get done.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: merdesa.5086

merdesa.5086

I know the most popular answer is “no one CC’s” and I totally believe that there are some people in every group that just auto attacks while browsing things, texting, or eating; but I’m finding it harder to take that as the only answer, especially when it’s almost consistent with this boss that people have an issue. (I’ve seen it cleared once, and now that I need it to craft HOPE, it fails). I would think maybe a tiny tuning down or even just adding another 30s-1min to the clock might help. Or extend the time we have to break the bar by another 2-3 seconds —I feel like by the time my basilisk venom is cast it’s too late.

It also doesn’t help that the content is getting old, so less people seem to be doing it —and hey maybe less people are doing it because they always see it fail too, and so it’s some vicious cycle of trying to find enough people to do the meta, but failing and me sulking over not getting my shiny pewpew gun

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Went at it again last night, and actually got a kill. So, I’ve been tumbling the various pieces over in my head about why it succeeded.

There was a commander who explained things and was quick to call out CC.
Glad he was there for it, but I’ve seen comms do that before to no effect.

Party size was definitely a factor. Not more than 15 people from what I could tell. After the first failure, the few people in that group were able to break his bar consistently for a clean kill. There also wasn’t a huge wad of downed flags during the fight.

I had my mesmer on that go (Distraction, Greatsword 5, Focus 4 to contribute), and I have to say the range helped probably more than it should have for that to be a fair fight.
I blame the bounce. In order, the bar comes up, Vinetooth bounces around then stalls somewhere, then the melee are expected to catch him and execute a skill in the 2-3 second window left.

That’s where I can pinpoint the problem. Even if everyone brings their CC skills, the hop after the bar is exposed kills too much time for most of the players to get to it before it fails.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

The new wyvern twins are even worse with the bouncing because they wreck more and more of the “arena” where you fight them if their bar isn’t broken. Good luck even reaching them in melee after a few failures. I fought them five or six times, never saw them broken once, and honestly got tired of chain-dying in melee trying for the break when it feels like I’m barely even scratching the bar anyway. Swapping my hammer for the longbow and ignoring the bar for the rest of the fight kept me alive, but didn’t really feel satisfying or doing it like it was designed to be done.