Guild Wars 2

Please

“Battle Scars, Impossible Odds, Riposting Shadows”

Signing up.

Meditation of the Reaper could’ve been a very nice heal skill, btw.

Yes it would, something like a dueling/solo stance

For the elite skills, the names are what came to my mind:

1. Jade Wail
2. Jade Wind
3. The Jade Wind Blows
4. Wicked Winds

The player could causes a 2 second point blank AoE petrify similar to the thief’s basilisk venom. The only difference would be an insanely long cooldown and AoE effect.

Please… Shiro was my favorite NPC in Guild Wars!

“Stance of the Betrayer” has a pretty epic ring to it. High single-target dmg and evades. I ship it.

I wish… It’s a little odd they picked Mallyx though.

Wasn’t Mallyx a gorilla?

I can surely see this as one of the legends, and one based on direct damage DPS. Shiro was epic, and an assassin. I really hope they use him.

Heal: Meditation of the Reaper – Upkeep Skill; immobilize yourself and become unable to use skills, while active you take half-damage and heal for twice of that damage when upkeep ends.
Utility 1: Battle Scars – Your attack skills causes life steal for a limited time.
Utility 2: Impossible Odds – Target enemy receives all conditions you currently have. For the next x seconds your attacks give a random condition with each strike. The lower health you have, the more conditions you give per strike.
Utility 3: Riposting Shadows – Upkeep Skill; Stealth and attack nearby foes randomly, moving ends upkeep.
Elite: Jade Wind – Release a petrifying wail that turns all nearby enemies into stone.

Yeah, I can see something like that.

@DarksunG: Just because they picked Mallyx doesn’t mean they can’t also pick Shiro. Though I would have picked Jadoth myself, he feels more iconic to the lore than Mallyx, being the first Margonite and all.

@Potato Slayer: Kinda-sorta. He was a giant margonite that had a gorilla-like posture. What he was… isn’t very well known.

I really hope this happens. To me, Shiro Tagachi is probably the most iconic character of GW1. A good chunk of his abilities would be great for this, and he was basically a kind of a Revenant too, which just makes it all the better.

This thread screams Cantha addiction.

I fully agree, Shiro has to be a legend for the revenant. And Jade Wind as elite where all surrounding enemies turn into Jade would be awesome (though a bit overpowered).

They’ll definitely put it I think to appease the edgy fans.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-snip-

Didn’t they already show the stealth dashing and attacking skill in the HoT reveal trailer?

Shiro Confirmed

Xukavi.4320:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-snip-

Didn’t they already show the stealth dashing and attacking skill in the HoT reveal trailer?

Shiro Confirmed

well, either shiro or the assassin who helped bring him down – Vizu (i wouldn’t be surprised if both are added as legends.)

That just made me realize – perhaps additional legends are unlocked via skill points like utilities. In fact, that would be the replacement for utility purchases and whatnot. each one comes with 3 utilities and an elite, each unique to them, and would give a changed effect on the healing skills.

I’m not really a fan of Cantha in general; but Shiro was probably the best boss fight in GW1. A well made homage as a channel legend would be amazing.

In my opinion Shiro was by far the best villain in GW1. He’s to GW what Sephiroth is to the Final Fantasy series: a plain awesome and unforgettable villain with a pretty awesome and complex story.

Having him as a Legend would be amazing to the point i consider leaving him out a huge mistake. He’s loved by the GW Veterans and would “sell” the class to these players on it’s own. Not to mention his skills have really catchy names that match the Revenant theme like “Meditation of the Reaper”, “Riposting Shadows” and “Impossible Odds”.

So…bring SHIRO TAGACHI back A-Net! We’re counting on you!!!

Stop dreaming pals. It’s gonna be Rukik!

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Xukavi.4320:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-snip-

Didn’t they already show the stealth dashing and attacking skill in the HoT reveal trailer?

Shiro Confirmed

well, either shiro or the assassin who helped bring him down – Vizu (i wouldn’t be surprised if both are added as legends.)

That just made me realize – perhaps additional legends are unlocked via skill points like utilities. In fact, that would be the replacement for utility purchases and whatnot. each one comes with 3 utilities and an elite, each unique to them, and would give a changed effect on the healing skills.

I believe it was already confirmed that you unlock new Legends through skill points.

So how many legends do you think revenants will get? Rurik, Gwen, Jora, Togo, heck what counts as a legend? I haven’t seen anything in the game related to Mallyx, much less the domain of anguish… All in all the revenant seems to be a combination of the Dervish and the Ritualist from GW1… in the sense of channeling the mists and becoming Avatars of those they channel.

I do hope that they have Shiro, or plan to release Shiro in the near future. I always wanted to use a player version of his Impossible Odds skill. That skill alone was what made the fight so tense. The moment he activated that stance, you had to have a stance breaker or the party would die.

DanteZero.9736:

I do hope that they have Shiro, or plan to release Shiro in the near future. I always wanted to use a player version of his Impossible Odds skill. That skill alone was what made the fight so tense. The moment he activated that stance, you had to have a stance breaker or the party would die.

Nope, all you need is spiteful spirit, empathy, and those self damage skills upon action and he’ll go down in impossible speed lol.

For GW2 it’s even simpler. All you need is 1 confusion, and maybe a group of retaliation to kill the user instantly.

I’ve never once understood why people like Shiro so much.

Mechanically, Factions was a great campaign. The encounter and mission designs were great, and the maps were fun. Story wise it was laughable. Everything from the voice acting to the deus ex machina devices that drove the entire plotline were just plain silly.

Shiro himself was remarkable only for his appeal to fans of eastern culture tropes, and had no more depth as a main villain than the Lich or Abby. People like Shiro because he’s a long haired asian guy with two swords and some nonsense tortured past. The fact that he showed up in a few more cutscenes didn’t make him a unique and interesting character. It made him a carbon copy of every single bad guy trope ever.

Seriously, have a look and tell me this is the hallmark of a well developed character:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uvfT4iYuV4#t=4m42s

He literally does every evil thing ever because some random old woman told him to. There’s no other reason for him to betray the emperor. Then he goes on, supposedly tortured about the experience… on a quest to come back to life, raise an army of shiroken, in order to what… murder everyone for no discernible reason?
There’s no clear or consistant motivation for anything Shiro ever does. Ever.

In fact, the entire GW beyond Cantha story, despite the lack of voice acting, was filled with far, far more interesting and believable villains and plot notes.

PopeUrban.2578:

He literally does every evil thing ever because some random old woman told him to. There’s no other reason for him to betray the emperor. Then he goes on, supposedly tortured about the experience… on a quest to come back to life, raise an army of shiroken, in order to what… murder everyone for no discernible reason?
There’s no clear or consistant motivation for anything Shiro ever does. Ever.

His motivation is extremely simple and stays very consistent both during his betrayal and return. He simply wants to keep living. If you haven’t noticed, the whole Factions affair is his attempt to resurrect himself. It’s clearly explained throughout the story (but, of course, you need to pay attention).

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

He literally does every evil thing ever because some random old woman told him to. There’s no other reason for him to betray the emperor. Then he goes on, supposedly tortured about the experience… on a quest to come back to life, raise an army of shiroken, in order to what… murder everyone for no discernible reason?
There’s no clear or consistant motivation for anything Shiro ever does. Ever.

His motivation is extremely simple and stays very consistent both during his betrayal and return. He simply wants to keep living. If you haven’t noticed, the whole Factions affair is his attempt to resurrect himself. It’s clearly explained throughout the story (but, of course, you need to pay attention).

No, he wants to return to life and MURDER EVERYONE.

For no discernible reason outside of his obligation as the villain of the piece to spread murderchaos.

And, again, he murdered a man he respected and admired at the insistance of an old woman he barely knew.

Also, he killed an old lady because she said something disparaging about his lord, then regretted that decision, then immediately acted upon her upsetting prophecy.

Let’s be clear here. Even with the “Abbaddon did it, lulz!” retcon later on, a man in Shiro’s position, taking life changing advice from a nickel and dime fortune teller is a pretty kitten poor motivation.

He wasn’t ensorcelled to commit the deed, and this wasn’t some long standing friend and confidant. This wasn’t a carefully orchestrated shell game by players behind the scenes using shiro as a pawn.

This was one lady (or, you know, demon after they retconned that) with a crystal ball and no other apparent skills. Shiro didn’t even have reason to believe she was an ACCURATE fortune teller.

He was a victim of his own boundless stupidity, and in the end decided that he’d punish all of Cantha for the fact he’s a class A moron.

PopeUrban.2578:

He literally does every evil thing ever because some random old woman told him to. There’s no other reason for him to betray the emperor. Then he goes on, supposedly tortured about the experience… on a quest to come back to life, raise an army of shiroken, in order to what… murder everyone for no discernible reason?
There’s no clear or consistant motivation for anything Shiro ever does. Ever.

This will be a really long post. Sorry. I just want to tell you that his story is more complex than that.

He was a very loyal and ambitious soldier that protected the Emperor and his family with utter devotion and ruthlessness.
Then the Fortune Teller, who was actually a demon servant of Abaddon (God of Lies, Secrets, etc), started influencing his mind and gaining his trust. She poisoned his mind against the Emperor telling him that he would be killed by the ones he did so much for.
His devotion to the Emperor was great but so was his will to live, this internal conflict leading him to madness and he began using dark and forbidden magic (probably taught to him by the Demon). Choosing self-preservation and feeling betrayed, he killed the Emperor at the Harvest Cerimony, wich actually broke his mind further.
With the whole Cantha turning agaisnt him wanting revenge he faced against countless soldiers, being killed in the end by the combined efforts of three heroes. Feeling betrayed by all, he died in a fit of rage unleashing the Jade Wind.
He was further punished in death by the Oracle of the Mists, becoming an Envoy, bound to be a shepperd of souls. But his will was to strong, and he learned how to use those powers to create an army and take revenge upon the country that betrayed him. Then the whole GW: Factions story happens…

As you can see his story is actually very well thought and he didn’t to those things “just because”.

At the time it was written, there was no Abbaddon, that was a retcon added later. As written, said fortune teller had no apparent power, real or imagined.

She “poisoned his mind” by simply telling him stuff. There was no literal hex, curse, or other metaphysical influence on Shiro. There was no mind control. This was the equivalent of me telling you that your history professor or wife is planning to murder you, and you believing it for absolutely no reason.

The fact remains that Shiro’s entire story is a series of inconsistancies and contrivances, packaged at first as a sad tale of a powerful man used as a pawn, escaping fate because the plot demanded that a guy who isn’t smart enough to figure out he’s being manipulated (blatantly) by an old woman he barely knows somehow manages to outsmart an entity that has been in charge of the GW Universe equivalent of the river styx for hundreds of years.

He is a more poorly written and conceived villain than Scarlet Briar, and people like him because he is the living embodiment of anime fanfiction bad boy tropes:

Scar? Check!
Long hair? Check!
Dual wielding? Check!
Long coat? Check!
Magical powers? Check again!
Apply the same story, not set in an asian themed continent, to any other person with more conventional arms or appearance and people would still be crying about how badly he was written.

The plot paints him simultaneously as history’s largest idiot and it’s greatest general. it simultaneously paints him as a tragic pawn and a calculating and cunning operator.
At the end of it all, his entire story arc is one long string of plot convenience after plot convenience to no purpose whatsoever, and is written specifically to find a way to funnel players in to the kurzick/luxon mechanics and explain some really neat set pieces for map design.

Factions was a beautiful environment and had a lot of fun mission design, but the story was absolute trash when held up to prophecies or nightfall.

You spend the entire game chasing one man, who according to all avaliable sources is simultaneously the dumbest and improbably strongest human to ever live. There are no surprises, no twists, just a long and tedious string of exposition to shuffle you along to the next mission marker.

PopeUrban.2578:

She “poisoned his mind” by simply telling him stuff. There was no literal hex, curse, or other metaphysical influence on Shiro. There was no mind control. This was the equivalent of me telling you that your history professor or wife is planning to murder you, and you believing it for absolutely no reason.

He didn’t met her the day before doing all that crazy stuff.

It’s seen in cutscenes that he met her when he was just a renowned soldier, before becoming the Emperor’s Bodyguard. Then he was at the Emperor’s service for years (confirmed to be at least 14), all this time consulting the Fortune Teller. And all she told him would eventually happen, her prophecies about him did come to pass. He had his reasons to believe her, and even then he didnt…killing her for “lying” when she told the Emperor would kill him.

Then he began thinking that maybe she told him the truth, and this “doubt” would lead to his madness.

PS: Don’t say that Scarlet is better than Shiro! NEVER!!! :-P

Rexx, I have to thank you for explaining shiro in proper terms, I have a harder time doing so, so I’m going to have to keep this as a reference if this issue ever comes back up.
and yeah, Shiro was infinitely better than scarlet.

Not to sidetrack the thread, to the guy who said rurik, I hope we actually do get that.

Just seems to me that people who are into mangas/anime or are fascinated with Final Fantasy like stuff like Shiro because he fits in their world. Shiro is cliche, but out of whole Factions I loved Kaineng City the most, so you can say I’m unusual.

Impossible Odds couldn’t possibly (ha ha) be as OP as in Factions to make it into the game, but the nod to that battle would still be a great thing to see.

Though I do have to concur on the Factions storyline; it was an abysmal mess and easily the worst out of the GW franchise. The Abaddon factor added later only served to make it somewhat plausible, but it doesn’t excuse the poor storytelling. There are ways to make him more convincing without resorting to spoilers, and from what evidence I have I don’t believe Abaddon was planned at the time the Factions cutscenes were made anyway.

Luckily, the passage of time (read: nostalgia glasses) kind of blurs those aspects; from a visual design perspective Shiro was still memorable for the right reasons, and the final boss battle was one of the best challenging-but-not-in-a-lazy-way fights in GW1.

Oh I won’t fault the mission design in factions at all, and the shiro boss fight was a great encounter.

But I’ll say it, as a matter of opinion (and we’ve all got them!) Shiro is easily the least well written villain in the entire franchise.

Aside from the writing my only real issues with factions were the long fetch quests. So many fetch quests in Kaineng that required you to walk back across a zone you had already completely cleared of bad guys on the way to the quest. Ugh. Luckily those were mostly side quests but man, some of ’em got pretty tedious.

Still, back on topic, Rev Shiro stance is probably a thing, or at least should be. Despite his writing he’s easily important enough in the lore to qualify for legend status, and has a set of abilities unique enough to build some cool mechanics around.

I may have my “nostalgia glasses” on…i admit! :P And i started playing post Nightfall so the Abaddon story was already out.

To end this discussion i just wanna say that i respect all your opinions about him. I really do.

For me some nice Legends would be:

Prophecies – Rurik/Glint
Factions – Shiro/Togo
Nightfall – Mallyx (Turai Ossa would be cool to)
Eye of the North – Jalis Ironhammer (Jora would also be cool)

I concur with Rexx. But one of the reasons I liked Shiro was because he was believable in the sense was that he was human. He made mistakes and wasn’t just the “unkillable bodyguard”. Reminds me alot of Logan Thackeray actually. What if Queen Jenna died? Would he go insane?

Potato Slayer.3107:

I concur with Rexx. But one of the reasons I liked Shiro was because he was believable in the sense was that he was human. He made mistakes and wasn’t just the “unkillable bodyguard”. Reminds me alot of Logan Thackeray actually. What if Queen Jenna died? Would he go insane?

It would be more like, what if Logan discovered that Queen Jenna was plotting to kill him and he was 100% sure of it. Would he go insane the way of Shiro too?

Invictus.1503:

Potato Slayer.3107:

I concur with Rexx. But one of the reasons I liked Shiro was because he was believable in the sense was that he was human. He made mistakes and wasn’t just the “unkillable bodyguard”. Reminds me alot of Logan Thackeray actually. What if Queen Jenna died? Would he go insane?

It would be more like, what if Logan discovered that Queen Jenna was plotting to kill him and he was 100% sure of it. Would he go insane the way of Shiro too?

Actually, more like some old lady told Logan that she was going to kill him, and he believed her because… reasons?

Xukavi.4320:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-snip-

Didn’t they already show the stealth dashing and attacking skill in the HoT reveal trailer?

Shiro Confirmed

That’s the inspiration I took since so many relate that ability of Rytlock to Shiro’s Riposting Shadows. :P

PopeUrban.2578:

I’ve never once understood why people like Shiro so much.

-snip-

Shiro himself was remarkable only for his appeal to fans of eastern culture tropes, and had no more depth as a main villain than the Lich or Abby.

-snip-

There’s no clear or consistant motivation for anything Shiro ever does. Ever.

If you don’t dig into the lore, then perhaps Shiro will come off as a character without depth.

But if you dig into the lore, read the wiki article on him or read An Empire Divided or watch the flashbacks you’d get what you say there is nothing of. There was discernible reason, there was motivation. You apparently just skipped dialogue to avoid seeing it. He is, in fact, the most fleshed out main villain of GW1.

His motivation can be boiled down to wanting to live. From the game we learn:

Shiro met a fortune teller while he was a simple no-good-street-guard who told him he’d be recognized for his actions and become famous. He didn’t believe it. A little while later, however, he got summoned by the Emperor himself to be appointed as his personal bodyguard. Later he ends up near where he met the fortune teller and has his fortune read again… this time she tells him the emperor is going to kill him. Shiro kills her in rage, thinking the emperor he trusted and protected daily would not do such a thing. But her words stick in his mind, and when the day she predicted his death would come, the emperor bends rules to allow Shiro to join him in a private ceremony…. Shiro breaks, thinking “this is when he’ll do it!” And he takes the first move. But he doesn’t survive the attempt to save his own life, and causes the Jade Wind upon his death. 200 years later, he returns as an envoy – he’s breaking rules and his very presence via these broken rules result in the Afflicted; why is he here? He’s researching. A way to return to life. His goal the entire time is the live as a mortal. And he makes an army to do this – because he knows his end-goal, to do what cursed him in the first place (kill the emperor), can result in the same ending: his death. So he has an army to back him up this time. But he still fails, and he’s about to unleash another Jade Wind when Suun and his acolytes reverse the effect onto his body, containing the Jade Wind and petrifying his reborn body.

Then it turns out that the fortune teller was an agent of Abaddon the entire time, and that Abaddon had been pulling Shiro’s strings without him realizing – and when Shiro’s sent to the Realm of Torment, Abaddon makes him a general. Why and how? That’s not clear, though. But I imagine it is along the lines of “if you help me escape my prison and lead my armies, I will give you life again.”

From An Empire Divided, we learn:
As a bodyguard, Shiro was ruthless but effective, he slaughtered gangs that kidnapped the emperor’s son, put treacherous ministers’ heads on pikes, and other such deeds. He was cruel, but again, effective. When he was told that the emperor would kill him, Shiro delved into forbidden magic. This allowed him to steal magic gifted to the emperor by Dwayna – magic that should have been spread across Cantha in small numbers, but ended up fueling the Jade Wind. The rest remains the same: Shiro’s goal the whole time was to live, though An Empire Divided suggests there may have been more (but that’s written in an in-universe perspective and thus fallible).

And all of that – and more – is placed on the wiki article.

What’s Khilbron? “I want to save Orr!” → “I want to rule the world!” → “I serve Abaddon!” Very consistent. Very deep.

What’s Varesh? “Hail Abaddon!” → “Hail Abaddon!” → “Hail Almight Abaddon!” Consistent, but to very deep.

What’s the Great Destroyer? “….” Yup.

Abaddon has lots of depth to him, but even less is very easily discerned via the game, needs more patchworking than Shiro. And let’s not even get into GW2 villains…

PopeUrban.2578:

Invictus.1503:

Potato Slayer.3107:

I concur with Rexx. But one of the reasons I liked Shiro was because he was believable in the sense was that he was human. He made mistakes and wasn’t just the “unkillable bodyguard”. Reminds me alot of Logan Thackeray actually. What if Queen Jenna died? Would he go insane?

It would be more like, what if Logan discovered that Queen Jenna was plotting to kill him and he was 100% sure of it. Would he go insane the way of Shiro too?

Actually, more like some old lady told Logan that she was going to kill him, and he believed her because… reasons?

More like he met an old lady while he was a mercenary for Ebonhawke and told that one day he would join a renowned guild with a charr. That comes to pass and he sees her again, and she tells him that he will rise fast in the ranks of the Seraph. And that comes to pass and he sees her again, and she tells him Jennah will kill him during some annual ritual, and when that day comes Jennah bends some rules to allow Logan and Jennah’s retinue into a private ceremony that should usually be only Jennah.

That would be Shiro and his Emperor turned Logan and Jennah (minus the love story :P)

Anyhow, I still think he would make a great legend, and enough depth to do so if not more than Mallyx or Jalis.

Personally i feel abbadon’s remnants would be a good thing to channel. Mainly due to him being still here in theory because the mists aren’t controlled by the gods . So his remains and his memory live on there, Shiro would be awesome as well because he is a kitten. But so are the people who stopped him both time’s ? So i think all of the major people that played roles on either side should be legends to be used , each offering different things . I also Think , That glint should be a legend able to be channeled with abilities that suit her. Like a punt using the winds of her wings to get rid of people all around you; A defense like endure pain , called maybe shimmering scales. and some attacks with raw damage/burning or maybe even torment such as . Dragons breath and crystalline entrapment . who knows , but this could be the start of something epic

He will be Minionmancer+! He will summon the afflicted to kill foes! Well, he might. I could see it happening.

SHIRO FTW, even made myself a shirt (sorry for bad quiality)

Rexx.1805:

Having him as a Legend would be amazing to the point i consider leaving him out a huge mistake. He’s loved by the GW Veterans and would “sell” the class to these players on it’s own. Not to mention his skills have really catchy names that match the Revenant theme like “Meditation of the Reaper”, “Riposting Shadows” and “Impossible Odds”.

So…bring SHIRO TAGACHI back A-Net! We’re counting on you!!!

yes please Shiro as a legend is a must and I’ll be super sad if I have to wait for Cantha but would understand if that means Cantha could get here more quickly