Guild Wars 2

Sure, there will always be unbalanced traits and skills out there, but this one is kinda dumb. Yes this is a complaint thread, from a WvW and PvP perspective. Dragon Hunter’s Virtue of Justice automatically having/being a pull is just flat out unreasonable. How is it fair in any way that every single guardian out there, automatically get’s a 1200 range, 1/4 second cast, unblockable, with little-to-no-tell-pull, simply because they took a specific trait line? And a trait line that, 9 times out of ten they WILL take. Really now, how exactly was this determined to be a good idea and how has it not been changed yet? So I looked through all the skills and traits for each class for all the pulls available to them and here’s what I found.

Elementalist: Yes, they do have a pull, I was surprised as well despite having played Ele for almost four years:
It’s the #4 weapon skill of the Conjure Earth Shield, Magnetic Shield. 400 pull, 5 target, 600 radius unblockable, grants 2 seconds protection for each foe pulled. 25 second cooldown. Pretty decent skill to be honest, and I’ve never, ever, seen it used.
Requires selection of a utility slot skill. (And the conjured weapon is on a 60 second cool-down by the way)

Necromancer: One pull:
Spectral Grasp. 1200 range, blockable, 1/2 second cast, slow and clear tell, 30 second cool-down. And one of the most ineffective pulls in the game. I’ve tried to use this skill many, many times and I’d give it an optimistic 20% success rate.
Requires selection as a utility skill.

Mesmer: One pull:
Temporal Curtain. #4 on the focus, 25 second cool-down, 900 range target area, 600 radius pull towards the target area, 5 targets, blockable.
Requires selection of a weapon.

Thief: One pull:
Scorpion Wire. 1200 range, blockable, 1/2 second cast, 20 second cool-down, not quite as ineffective as Spectral Grasp.
Requires selection as a utility skill.

Ranger: Two pulls:
Path of Scars, #4 on off-hand ax. 1200 range, 450 pull, blockable and ground targeted with narrow path. 1/2 second cast, 15 second cool-down. I’ve tried and it’s quite difficult to hit moving targets with.
Requires selection of weapon.
Glyph of Tides while in Celestial Avatar form. 360 pull, 360 radius, 5 target, 25 second cool-down, blockable.
Requires selection of a trait line, as a utility skill, and being in Avatar form…..

Engineer: One pull:
Magnet, the #5 on the Tool Kit utility skill. 1200 range, unblockable, with a 1 and 1/4 clear and present cast time/tell. 25 second cool-down. Powerful pull versus the inexperienced who don’t know when to dodge (or have the stamina). glitches only a little less than Scorpion wire or Necrotic Grasp.
Requires selection of a utility slot skill.

continued…

Warrior:
No pulls. (Thankfully!!)
Revenant: Two and a half pulls:
Temporal Rift. #5 off-hand ax, 900×300 range line that pulls foes towards center. 15 second cool-down, 1/2 second cast with 1 second delay to pull, highly visible tell
Requires selection of weapon.
Grasping Shadow. #5 off-hand sword. 130 range, 600 pull. 1/2 second cast. You must strike target in melee, it teleports you and target back, blockable
Requires selection of weapon.
And the half is Forced Engagement, one of the utility skills of Legendary Dwarf Stance. I give this half a pull because it’s a 2 second taunt which forces the target to move towards you, hard to classify this. 1200 range, blockable, 5 second cooldown with 35 energy cost (that’s ALOT)
Requires selection of Stance ( utility skills set )
Guardian: Two pulls:
Binding Blades. #5 greatsword. 600 radius, 600 pull, 5 target, 3/4 second cast, 30 second cool-down, blockable.
Requires selection of weapon.

And Finally,
Spear of Justice. Active skill of guardians Virtue of Justice. 1200 range, unblockable, 1/4 second cast with no real tell until you’re leashed. I believe there’s a 40 second cool-down on the pull.
Requires….nothing but selection of trait line that 9 times out of 10 they WILL take if they have HoT. It does not require ANY sacrifice or intentional selection, don’t have to choose it as one of your only three utility slots or select a specific weapon for it, it just comes with the package of running the Dragon Hunter line. So Kudos to you all who make an obvious choice of trait lines, here’s a bonus over-powered pull for ya to boot!!!…
I’m not saying get rid of the pull, I find it very reasonable for it to be available. BUT it needs to be an OPTION that has to be selected over something else, an adept trait within the Dragon Hunter line for example. Every other pull for every other class requires you to CHOOSE to have it over something else, by using a specific weapon or selection of a utility skill. None just come automatically.
Say perhaps get rid of the Dulled Senses (enemies you knock back are crippled, enemies you cripple get vulnerability) (combine that with another trait if you want) and replace that with the virtue’s active can pull (even reduce the pull’s cool-down to match the virtue’s cool-down for fairness) but MAKE IT BE A SELECTION. Ya gotta choose between the dazing reduced cool-down traps, or the damaging, immobilizing leap that heals you and clears conditions OR the 1200 range, unblockable, invisible 1/4 fast leash that does damage and burns….being able to pull….

You forgot reaper greatsword pull.

Nobody even complained about this until DH became low tier meta. ¯\(;-;)/¯

Cause everyone playing HoT pretty much runs around with perma-stability, anyways.

It’s absurd compared to core game. But everything with HoT is. Quite frankly I don’t see any of the existing elites except chrono and reaper being swapped out of competitive play when the next expansion comes around. They’re pretty much all conceptually too good to pass up, particularly if ANet wants to try and not powercreep so badly again.

Magnetic bomb for engineer also missed.

Fiddle Irk.9710:

Yes this is a complaint thread, from a WvW and PvP perspective.

Ah, then as a Open World PvEer, none of this applies to my necromancer, who uses Grasping Darkness anyways.

Honestly the biggest problem that stands out to me is that DH got the only unblockable pull (from what you listed, the others are all blockable, and at least for the mesmer, you have an entire second to get more than 600 units away so its on you if you get pulled by into the void). Change spear of justice to be blockable and that solves the problem, no?

yes I missed the necro GS (and engi magnetic bomb? you’re good if you effectively use that) no the problem isn’t just blockable or unblockable, it’s that it is too strong to just come with the package without having to give anything up. and no one is really running around with perma stabality unless you’re in the middle of a zergs front line

Dude – I hate to be that guy, but Spear of Justice is heavily telegraphed, (3/4 cast time, PLUS the animation), and it’s dodgeable.

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue? It’s not like you’re being stunned or hit with immobilize after being pulled, you’ve simply lost your gap.

This is coming across as someone who got beaten by a guardian, and is blaming is doing the standard forum "I lost, therefore “opponent” is too powerful. NERF!" whining.

IE: Rock is too powerful, Paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors.

stale.9785:

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue?

Probably WvW. It’s one of those major problem abilities there. But HoT killed WvW in general so… yea.

If you get hit by a pull without stability, you die instantly since there’s no dodge recovery window.

Particularly bad in this meta where the frontline can pull the backline at 1200 (which has no stability in most cases) into the meatgrinder while not needing to walk through a minefield and other opponents.

I wvw on both necro and my guardian. Unless something is drastically different on other servers, being pulled is something that doesn’t happen. Outside of necro, every class seems to poop stacks of stability on the exhale.

Maybe it comes up in roaming or small scale skirmishing, but it’s certainly not a problem with ZvZ or organised groups…

stale.9785:

I wvw on both necro and my guardian. Unless something is drastically different on other servers, being pulled is something that doesn’t happen. Outside of necro, every class seems to poop stacks of stability on the exhale.

Maybe it comes up in roaming or small scale skirmishing, but it’s certainly not a problem with ZvZ or organised groups…

Thief doesn’t have much stability either.

Reaper GS pull is somewhat fiddly. Seems to fail for no apparent reason. Pretty crappy at hitting anything that moves as well. On the other hand the spear sometimes fails in similar ways too like the pull not going the full distance.

90% of my DH pulls fail in WvW. I am not good and usually ran around with PvE gear, so no complaint here. But I don’t see an issue, it really fails a lot. Seems a lot dodge, evade etc around like a hummingbird on steroids during an epileptic seizure anyways.

PS: completely wrong subforum. Should be in the Guardian subforum.

I love the tool kit for engie… except the pull NEVER works… Even against npc creatures it seems to have a weird glitch that makes it pull only a 4th of what’s intended, if it pulls at all.

yea, now that you mention it, my warrior doesn’t have a pull. Which means I >MUST< play with a greatsword or mainhand sword in either weapon set to leap at my targets. Anet, give warriors a pull already!

Warrior does have a pull, spear 3 …

Khisanth.2948:

Warrior does have a pull, spear 3 …

its a pretty close range one too XD

Ardid.7203:

I love the tool kit for engie… except the pull NEVER works… Even against npc creatures it seems to have a weird glitch that makes it pull only a 4th of what’s intended, if it pulls at all.

I’ve seen this happen with the Guard GS and Spear pulls. The target just flops over and barely moves towards you. It’s both amusing and annoying.

Khisanth.2948:

Warrior does have a pull, spear 3 …

Oh yes, let me jusr do the underground facility, stand on a panel to keep the console gate open, and then equip a spear to pull a dredge to me

…why does every necro get access to a second HP bar for simply being a necro?
…why does every mesmer get free dazes, iframes, and confusion sources for simply being a mesmer?
…why does every ranger get a free npc minions for simply being a ranger?
…why does every thief get a free shadowstep for simply being a thief?
…why does every revenant get a free in-combat utilities swap for simply being a rev?
…why does every warrior get a free 6th weapon skill for simply being a warrior?
…why does every engineer get a extra 5 utility skills for simply being a engineer?

GW2 uses asynchronous class design. This is how these things work.

stale.9785:

Dude – I hate to be that guy, but Spear of Justice is heavily telegraphed, (3/4 cast time, PLUS the animation), and it’s dodgeable.

It’s not a problem in 1v1 situations. It becomes a problem once you get too close to an enemy zerg – because there will be several dh’s in here, all pulling, all conveniently hidden within sfx cloud.

stale.9785:

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue?

See above. And yes, you do get stopped for a moment after pull. Usually, by the time you can run again you’re already dead.

unblockable virtue pull? wtf, have you never heard of stability? it counters it all the time….pfff

Crinn.7864:

…why does every necro get access to a second HP bar for simply being a necro?
…why does every mesmer get free dazes, iframes, and confusion sources for simply being a mesmer?
…why does every ranger get a free npc minions for simply being a ranger?
…why does every thief get a free shadowstep for simply being a thief?
…why does every revenant get a free in-combat utilities swap for simply being a rev?
…why does every warrior get a free 6th weapon skill for simply being a warrior?
…why does every engineer get a extra 5 utility skills for simply being a engineer?

GW2 uses asynchronous class design. This is how these things work.

while you are not wrong with asynchronous design none of those things are “free”.
Also necro never had a second lifebar. It might look similar to one but sure doesn’t act or work like one.

stale.9785:

Dude – I hate to be that guy, but Spear of Justice is heavily telegraphed, (3/4 cast time, PLUS the animation), and it’s dodgeable.

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue? It’s not like you’re being stunned or hit with immobilize after being pulled, you’ve simply lost your gap.

This is coming across as someone who got beaten by a guardian, and is blaming is doing the standard forum "I lost, therefore “opponent” is too powerful. NERF!" whining.

IE: Rock is too powerful, Paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors.

It’s not dodgeable if you’re hit with the spear. It can literally pull you to the guard during your dodge frames.

Pompeia.5483:

You forgot reaper greatsword pull.

because it’s only a bit more useful than spectral grasp

I dont understand this this is a dh complaint thread or is it about pulls in general?

Because if it is about pulls in general i dont know what the op whats to say. Are they too strong? Hell no i would say to that especially if alot of them are buggy as hell ( i know mainly from the necro pulls).

By the way underwater necro also has a pull on spear namely deadly catch. In fact there alot of pulls for underwater weapons nobody mentioned yet.

No tell? Rofl it’s extremely telegraphed and dodged 90% of the time even in low level pvp. Not to mention the amount of easy access classes have to stab…

All this text to whine over a single skill lol.

cranos.5913:

No tell? Rofl it’s extremely telegraphed and dodged 90% of the time even in low level pvp. Not to mention the amount of easy access classes have to stab…

All this text to whine over a single skill lol.

you cant dodge a guardian pull.

sophiewhite.3149:

cranos.5913:

No tell? Rofl it’s extremely telegraphed and dodged 90% of the time even in low level pvp. Not to mention the amount of easy access classes have to stab…

All this text to whine over a single skill lol.

you cant dodge a guardian pull.

Don’t you know how the skill works or just nitpicking? You can only pull someone once they are tethered by your initial spear of justice. You can dodge this easily because as said, it’s telegraphed very well.

cranos.5913:

sophiewhite.3149:

cranos.5913:

No tell? Rofl it’s extremely telegraphed and dodged 90% of the time even in low level pvp. Not to mention the amount of easy access classes have to stab…

All this text to whine over a single skill lol.

you cant dodge a guardian pull.

Don’t you know how the skill works or just nitpicking? You can only pull someone once they are tethered by your initial spear of justice. You can dodge this easily because as said, it’s telegraphed very well.

you mean that tiny insta cast flick they do? yeah that so well telegraphed. /s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVb04Yyu5yo

all you have to do is pop stability and the pull wont happen…. so you have 2 options… either dodge the first attack, or pop stability… either way… spear negated… end of story…

sophiewhite.3149:

cranos.5913:

sophiewhite.3149:

cranos.5913:

No tell? Rofl it’s extremely telegraphed and dodged 90% of the time even in low level pvp. Not to mention the amount of easy access classes have to stab…

All this text to whine over a single skill lol.

you cant dodge a guardian pull.

Don’t you know how the skill works or just nitpicking? You can only pull someone once they are tethered by your initial spear of justice. You can dodge this easily because as said, it’s telegraphed very well.

you mean that tiny insta cast flick they do? yeah that so well telegraphed. /s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVb04Yyu5yo

Well telegraphed enough for most emerald players to dodge, but w/e, it’s DH so ofc it needs a nerf QQ thread.

cranos.5913:

Well telegraphed enough for most emerald players to dodge

Emerald players can dodge?[/sarcasm]
(to be more serious, most of the emerald level players do not dodge telegraphs, because they generally dodge only visible AoE circles, or spam them at random)

stale.9785:

Dude – I hate to be that guy, but Spear of Justice is heavily telegraphed, (3/4 cast time, PLUS the animation), and it’s dodgeable.

Beyond that, what gameplay are you engaging in where a pull that leaves you mobile afterward is an issue? It’s not like you’re being stunned or hit with immobilize after being pulled, you’ve simply lost your gap.

This is coming across as someone who got beaten by a guardian, and is blaming is doing the standard forum "I lost, therefore “opponent” is too powerful. NERF!" whining.

IE: Rock is too powerful, Paper is fine. Sincerely, Scissors.

Seems like you don’t know the skill it’s 1/4 sec not 3/4, it’s not that highly telegraphed especially with all of the seizure inducing visual effects most classes emit from all the Aoe spam, and the initial part is dodgeable but the pull is not, with rider effects on top of the pull i.e. Unblockable, Burning and cripple, and the fact that it is the most reliable pull out there.