Make GW2 Great Again

Make GW2 Great Again

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Zwolf.2386

Zwolf.2386

Okay. Let me preface by saying I hope someone actually takes the time to read this.

I have no degree in game design or anything like that. The only proof to my opinion is that I’ve played a decent handful of games throughout my life and I’m a decently high ranked League of Legends player. I’ve been a Dungeon Master for a couple DnD groups as well, which would be the closest experience I would have to any sort of game design. When I was a kid, I actually grew up wanting to make games, and debated applying to Riot Games when I graduated college, but I didn’t end up pursuing it. Without trying to brag, my point would be that I think I’m experienced in games enough to form an opinion on this.

I would say I’m a pretty average gamer. I’m a 23 year old with a Bachelor’s degree in sciences. I work 40 hours a week and spend my free time on my computer. As far as MMOs go, I’ve primarily played World of Warcraft since it came out, taking breaks here and there. I’ve tried many many free MMOs in the mean time. Nothing has ever “scratched the itch” that playing WoW has put on me. Something always brings me back to playing WoW, and no other game has ever come close to the same amount of fun that I have with that game.

My girlfriend got into GW2 and asked me to play with her, so I gave it a shot. I remember spending a lot time trying to pick my first character. GW2 actually have some interesting races! It was a really nice change of pace from your average MMO. Even if Sylvari are similar to “elves” in other games, they’re different enough to feel the difference.

(It’s actually pretty interesting, because normally EVERY game has humans being the “new, young” race, where in this case, Sylvari are the youngest but they also are the ones that resemble elvish type races, which are normally the oldest).

So I made a Sylvari. Started playing through the starting zone and started my first personal story mission at level 10. I never finished it. I picked the “Green Knight” dream during the character selection. I don’t remember my exact reason for the sudden disgust towards the game when I played through that mission, but the quest was so lifeless. The only thought going through my head is: “They’re making me run around and talk to this person and that person just because some dude in armor is bullying people.” It felt like a bad sitcom or something. My Sylvari, which has a vision called The Dream that tells him of his future and his purpose, is to stop a high school bully on the playground? Where are the town guards? Where’s Caithe? This guy is killing people and Caithe just stands there. And you DO kill him. Three times. And he just keeps getting back up. Which makes it even worse! Now he’s not this super powerful knight wearing invincible armor, he’s just an arrogant snob with a cheat-death mechanic. The end result are both the same, but the way the fight is carried out makes all the difference. If he did have magic armor, I shouldn’t have even been able to hurt him, or lower his HP bar at all. While that might be confusing for a player, it SHOULD be confusing. What gives? I’ve been killing dudes all the way up to level 10 and now this guy doesn’t take any damage. Instead, you made it frustrating. I killed him, and had to kill him again and again. It didn’t FEEL rewarding, because I clearly could kill that NPC without much difficulty, but it was just the game TELLING me that I couldn’t kill him, instead of feeling that myself. And then he just runs away and the game forces me to go on a scavenger hunt to find some magical way to actually kill him. A truly rewarding fight would have powerful NPC (without just adding the invulnerable boon to him), and have the story progress when the player lost too much health during the fight. Not only does the player himself feel just how powerful that this Green Knight is, now it gives them a true motivation to find a way to beat him. Because he was “actually” beatable, as in, the game didn’t just make him invulnerable or make him come back to life in the first encounter. It’s a really minor point, but it drastically changes the way a player perceives the game.

I quit the game at this point, only to come back later due to more encouraging from my girlfriend.

Fastforward to the Fort Trinity story missions, up until Zhaitan. Before even finishing the final mission, I always had the feeling like the game was being rushed at that point, like they were coming up to their deadline for the game’s release so they had to cut corners at the end. The last story mission was absolutely and 100% buggy, meaning, multiple times I had gone through the final story mission and gotten stuck after the part where you defend the airship and a chopper is supposed to fly over and grab you to take you further. The chopper never moved. This happened to me, my girlfriend, and each one of her friends, whether we did it solo or in a group of varying sizes. Obviously, bugs happen and it’s understandable to some degree. Game companies get more data in one hour of content being live than they do in all of their alpha and betas and all the quality assurance testing they can do. But not when a bug is so common that it’s reproducible and completely stops forward progress. You had no way to get around the bug. The chopper never moved and you’re sitting on an airship. You can’t go and walk, you just die if you jump off the ship. There was nothing to do.

Bugs aside, the fight with Zhaitan was… anti-climatic, to put it lightly. 80 levels of build up, and I finally get the final boss of the game, and all I have to do is click one button and he dies. Are you serious? How is that, in any way shape or form, rewarding? If it’s that easy, why aren’t all the dragons dead already? I think it’s non-debatable that the final mission was a complete let down.

But, I still play the game. I bought HoT, and played through it. Haven’t finished all the content yet, and I’m already unsatisfied with the game.

I haven’t yet figured out exactly what about HoT discourages me from playing, but the best word I can think of is: polish.

The game lacks any sort of polish to any of its content. Something that Blizzard and World of Warcraft are very well known for.

Every decision I’ve had to make, every cutscene that I watch, every meta event that I do, and now the new raiding content, too. It really makes a player wonder if the game developers really thought out what they were doing. The example that comes to mind is the Itzel poison mastery that lets you walk through some poisonous areas in Verdant Brink. Normally those poison areas have a mastery point or a chest or something worthwhile in them. Guess what? I walked around the poison by accident and bypassed it completely. My character still to this day does not have the Itzel poison mastery, and I have collected everything in Verdant Brink. Did anyone actually test this? Try it out? Think it through? What’s the point of an obstacle if there’s a no-effort solution?

I mean, I like to think the game developers don’t think GW2 is like “a B-list” kind of game. It’s not just another free MMO in the masses. It’s decently popular and normally highly recommended! So… why does it feel so shoddily put together?

Here’s a perfect example.

The raids came out not too long ago, with the entrance put in Verdant Brink’s map. That’s pretty normal, raids and dungeons are always in the map themselves in most games! World of Warcraft does this too.

But what World of Warcraft doesn’t do, is have meta-event maps.

Guess what normally happens when people want to raid? They park their character in front of the raid entrance and go spamming in the LFG tool. This puts a sizable effect on the Verdant Brink meta event. Now, the game thinks there more people on the map than there are people actually participating. Since the game thinks there are enough people, it doesn’t prompt them to move to more populated maps (which is genius, by the way). Now, you force players to “taxi” into other maps by hoping that someone graciously put a “taxi” in the LFG tool, so you can jump over to their Verdant Brink that actually has people participating.

I can think of a couple solutions.

You could have a LFG queue instead of a group advertisement. You already established that certain roles (tank, healer, different types of DPS) are needed, so it would be the simpliest thing in the world to queue up as a certain role and get put in a group.

You could make a lobby for any dungeon/raid where the entrance in on a meta event map. PvP has a lobby, so I don’t see why a raid shouldn’t. It would be TREMENDOUSLY convenient if there was armor repair or merchants or a Black Lion trader outside the raid in a “lobby” type zone, instead of forcing me to, once again, abuse the fact that I can jump to the PvP lobby free of charge and access my bank, merchant, Black Lion, etc… and then pop right back where I was, free of charge.

Verdant Brink is considerably more of a chore now that the raid entrance is there. People AFK in front of the entrance all the time while they’re looking for a group, because it’s difficult to find a group… because raid leaders can’t advertise their party for whatever reason. We have been resorting to someone leaving the group and advertising in the LFG tool to find people, since the raid leader can’t do it himself.

It’s all these little things that start adding up and make a player truly wonder if the game designers care. They seem to care, since they respond to player feedback about certain things (like when HoT came out), yet the game just isn’t polished to the same level as something like World of Warcraft, which remains the king of MMOs for a good reason.

Well, I spent about an hour writing this. I hope it has some kind of impact. GW2 feels like a game that has such a good infrastructure to be a truly amazing game and experience, but some design choices (that never end up getting addressed) are constantly getting in the way. It’s all about the way the game makes the player feel.

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Posted by: Sheobix.8796

Sheobix.8796

There are a lot of things wrong with HoT and the current state of core GW2 post-HoT that are.. just plain bad.

I, along with a lot of my friends, have put down the game for now. I log in daily for the daily reward, check mail, check guild to see if my favorite people are on, then log off.

I spent 5 minutes on GW2 today, and it didn’t make me mad, it made me sad.

I really used to enjoy the game. Now it’s just… awkward and clunky. dynamic events aren’t really dynamic anymore. Its an audiobook put on repeat, that you’re forced to re-experience over and over countless times just to fill masteries.. which are simply not rewarding. Given the lack of much needed patches and changes to the rewards all around the game, how it plays, etc… It’s not worth putting myself through as a “game” where you’re supposed to have fun. It’s just not fun.

GW2 has become a chore MMO. I stopped leveling masteries because there’s just nothing there for me, the player. It’s not a tool for progression, its a tool to time-gate the lacking content ArenaNet has given the players so they don’t immediately realize there’s nothing worthwhile in Maguuma. The story? meh. I only remember one character name. The raids? easy mechanics, but unforgiving windows for mistakes. It’s still “stack-here, go-there all together” battles. I’d even say WoW LFR raids are more enjoyable because of just the sheer amount of people involved.

PvP balance is nowhere to be found, despite the huge outcry for it to change both from the ESL Pro League players, the viewers on twitch, the forums, and Reddit.

WvW still remains the only shackle-free game mode, yet still needing changes— people accumulating 2000+ rank from the sheer hours being dumped there endgame, as opposed to playing the new content. (reminds me of 2012.. release year… before there were fractals or anything)

PvE is… someone please help this waste of money. Verdant Brink was enjoyable, until you realize how locked-in-place the repeating meta and adjacent map metas are, the ridiculous need to grind all the metas for enough XP to progress masteries so you can optimize your abilities to collect things in FashionWars2.

Maguuma is 1/3rd the size of Tyria, which for a 3 year in the making expansion is seriously lacking. Look at other MMOs and their expansions— areas just as large as the core map, if not bigger in some cases… what happened?

Armor sets almost nonexistent, instead thrown in the gem store because ArenaNet wants the money.

3 Legendary weapons introduced. Wow. That, and a couple backpieces. That’s what they had to offer?

Dungeons.. Dead
Fractals.. Grindy and lacking rewards.. on the way to having the same demise as dunegons
WvW.. mindless zerg endgame purgatory
PvP.. Mallyx Rev and Bunker Mesmer + 1 Ele meta, all used by the Pros.. game is “who can touch the caps first and sit there spamming auto attack and stability”
Huge chunk of players are stuck in Silverwastes farming gold because that’s the main thing to use these days for everything.. Heck, I have guildies who still haven’t bought HoT and are just there 24/7 because going in a circle opening boxes with F is the most rewarding content at the moment.

Hayseus Christo… what the hell happened to GW2?

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Posted by: Lyp Sao.1375

Lyp Sao.1375

… what the hell happened to GW2?

()

Don’t fight the other ants
Fight the queens

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Posted by: Kerin.9125

Kerin.9125

Hayseus Christo… what the hell happened to GW2?

It became a 1990s group-or-die game called GW3.

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Posted by: Zwolf.2386

Zwolf.2386

It doesn’t feel like greed. The R8 Revolver from CS:GO is greed. Random lockboxes that only have real-money keys to open them is greed. Hell, GW2 gave everyone a refund on the base game if you bought it near the announce of HoT. They’re not hurting for money.

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Posted by: Zwolf.2386

Zwolf.2386

Not exactly the most unheard of thing when making a new expansion. Blizzard gave Mist of Pandaria away for free when Warlords came out, and Legacy of the Void doesn’t require you to buy the old games to play it, and contains all the content from the previous games.

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Posted by: Omne.4603

Omne.4603

Honestly thought this was going to be a Trump troll thread.

I Cant Stop/ Ocularis
NSP | Os Guild Master
www.osguild.org | www.youtube.com/osthink

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Posted by: Tapioca.9062

Tapioca.9062

Honestly thought this was going to be a Trump troll thread.

I’m disappointed it wasn’t.

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Posted by: Animism.6849

Animism.6849

+1.
Thanks for the time spent writing it all in depth. I do not have the energy to bring myself to do it for the sake of a game – no matter how much I’d like to see GW2 succeed.

That being said I agree with every point, and has been something I’ve also thought through every step of this game.

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Posted by: Joshua Valentine.6417

Joshua Valentine.6417

I spent 5 minutes on GW2 today, and it didn’t make me mad, it made me sad.

I really used to enjoy the game. Now it’s just… awkward and clunky.

GW2 has become a chore MMO.

This is exactly how I feel.
I feel sad, because this game used to be so flippin’ amazing.
I took a break for a year, and came back for HoT. I was burnt out after two weeks. Two weeks…of NEW CONTENT! As someone who played GW1 since release, and GW2 since release, the current state of the game hits people like me the hardest, since I KNOW this game used to be great, and I KNOW it still has the potential to be great, but right now, it feels like nothing.

Grumpy Woodsman.
Jade Quarry Forever.

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Posted by: Ardenwolfe.8590

Ardenwolfe.8590

I hope they’re reading threads like this.

Gone to Reddit.

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Posted by: vesica tempestas.1563

vesica tempestas.1563

I spent 5 minutes on GW2 today, and it didn’t make me mad, it made me sad.

I really used to enjoy the game. Now it’s just… awkward and clunky.

GW2 has become a chore MMO.

This is exactly how I feel.
I feel sad, because this game used to be so flippin’ amazing.
I took a break for a year, and came back for HoT. I was burnt out after two weeks. Two weeks…of NEW CONTENT! As someone who played GW1 since release, and GW2 since release, the current state of the game hits people like me the hardest, since I KNOW this game used to be great, and I KNOW it still has the potential to be great, but right now, it feels like nothing.

they added Hot on top of that content you felt was amazing, it didnt replace it, I suspect your issues are elsewhere.


“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize

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Posted by: naphack.9346

naphack.9346

Build wall, deport elite specs, make GW2 great again!

The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.

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Posted by: ashan.3071

ashan.3071

Same here. I’m dissapointed of the current state of the game. I haven’t really played for almost a month now but I did check the game a few times. (Enough to play a raid for 30mins)

Thing is… With the dungeons nerfed, and no incentive to play fracs the game has become boring and unrewarding IMO. Combine that with the feeling of lack of content in the Xpac (which made me feel as if I’ve been deceived) and you’ve lost me as an active player Anet. And with the community being a lot less friendlier when I went inactive I’m not looking forward to playing again. (Looking at the forums has made me believe it may have become worse.)

I want GW2 to be like GW2 again to be honest.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

I mean, I like to think the game developers don’t think GW2 is like “a B-list” kind of game. It’s not just another free MMO in the masses. It’s decently popular and normally highly recommended! So… why does it feel so shoddily put together?

Parts of the game have felt different to me since the whole F2P thing. I’ve never played a game that wasn’t F2P then became F2P that didn’t fundamentally change in its philosophy and design. Even games where the fanboys and girls insisted the game would never change did. It might not have been the day F2P came out or a week or month later, but eventually it happened. To all of them.

I just don’t like what I see when B2P or sub games go F2P. It doesn’t feel or play the same.

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Posted by: Exotrax.4207

Exotrax.4207

I played HoT since release ….did what I had to do and now I’m happy cuz I can go bk to play in old Tyria if I’m not doing raid and never come back to that time-gate-frustration that HoT offers.

There’s still lots of things to do in old Tyria……fractals rewards now are finally ….rewarding …..so don’t give up …..just move on different path.

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Posted by: Red Mistress Denna.9804

Red Mistress Denna.9804

So I made a Sylvari. Started playing through the starting zone and started my first personal story mission at level 10. I never finished it. I picked the “Green Knight” dream during the character selection. I don’t remember my exact reason for the sudden disgust towards the game when I played through that mission, but the quest was so lifeless. The only thought going through my head is: “They’re making me run around and talk to this person and that person just because some dude in armor is bullying people.” It felt like a bad sitcom or something. My Sylvari, which has a vision called The Dream that tells him of his future and his purpose, is to stop a high school bully on the playground? Where are the town guards? Where’s Caithe? This guy is killing people and Caithe just stands there. And you DO kill him. Three times. And he just keeps getting back up. Which makes it even worse! Now he’s not this super powerful knight wearing invincible armor, he’s just an arrogant snob with a cheat-death mechanic. The end result are both the same, but the way the fight is carried out makes all the difference. If he did have magic armor, I shouldn’t have even been able to hurt him, or lower his HP bar at all. While that might be confusing for a player, it SHOULD be confusing. What gives? I’ve been killing dudes all the way up to level 10 and now this guy doesn’t take any damage. Instead, you made it frustrating. I killed him, and had to kill him again and again. It didn’t FEEL rewarding, because I clearly could kill that NPC without much difficulty, but it was just the game TELLING me that I couldn’t kill him, instead of feeling that myself. And then he just runs away and the game forces me to go on a scavenger hunt to find some magical way to actually kill him. A truly rewarding fight would have powerful NPC (without just adding the invulnerable boon to him), and have the story progress when the player lost too much health during the fight. Not only does the player himself feel just how powerful that this Green Knight is, now it gives them a true motivation to find a way to beat him. Because he was “actually” beatable, as in, the game didn’t just make him invulnerable or make him come back to life in the first encounter. It’s a really minor point, but it drastically changes the way a player perceives the game.

I actually loved this fight as it was a twist on an Arthurian legend; Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. It’s been told many ways, but, basically, a Faerie knight shows up and challenges Gawain to a strange duel: Gawain will get one swing with an axe at the Green Knight if , a year and a day later, Gawain will allow the Green Knight a swing at him. Gawain decapitates the Knight. . . who then picks up his own head, reminds Gawain of the time and location of their next meeting, and rides off. While they could have told the story a little better, I still very much enjoyed it.

If you pay attention, there are other references to Arthurian lore:
The White Stag was another famous story, Caliburn (an alternate spelling of Caladbolg) was one of the names for Excalibur. Possibly more, but I can’t think of them atm.

Who knew the Jungle was filled with so much Salt
water?! -tonyajc.2618

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Posted by: Dejavu.2349

Dejavu.2349

There are a lot of things wrong with HoT and the current state of core GW2 post-HoT that are.. just plain bad.

I spent 5 minutes on GW2 today, and it didn’t make me mad, it made me sad.

I really used to enjoy the game.

GW2 has become a chore MMO.

Hayseus Christo… what the hell happened to GW2?

:*(

I echo your sentiments.
And add that they’ve ruined Christmas with a 10k drink requirement for the shoulder skin. They should have not tied such a gold-sink to their holiday event – it’s just depressing.

I doubt GW2 will ever be great again – they’re just too far down the hole. This will quickly become just another game I log into to do dailies like Warframe, TERA, Firefall, etc… except this game was once great! I shall remember the good times and move on.