Guild Wars 2

Today’s blog was great. It was 99% fantastic.

What’s the remaining 1%, you might ask?

(Under Map Bonuses)
“Starter maps will not be included in order to preserve the new-player experience.”

So, essentially, the term “new player experience” is once again being used to (and this is NOT an insult or an accusation against the dev team) justify a bad decision (that is probably not recognized as being a bad decision).

Now, why is this a bad decision? Because it philosophically and mechanically contradicts the game’s founding principles. Guild Wars 2 was built on the philosophy of “play your way.” What does that mean? In Guild Wars 2, unlike in other MMOs, content is NOT supposed to be intentionally rendered obsolete for the illusion of progression. It means that, in Guild Wars 2, all content is (in theory) supposed to provide players with a comparable challenge and comparable rewards. ALL CONTENT is supposed to be end game content. Not a few zones. Not a few dungeons. Not most of the content. All of it.

And here we have the problem of this exclusion. It’s separating the starter zones (which I’m assuming are merely the 1-15 zones, but could be anything that they deem as low level) from the rest of the game, reducing their long term appeal.

And for what? A “new player experience?” What exactly is complex about automatically receiving periodic rewards for playing the game? And even if this was a complex factor, all this does, essentially, is delay the burden of discovery to a later point. A player will be no better equipped to magically know how map bonuses work at level 50 than at level 2. It’s still a mechanic that is brought into the game and which is a tiny, tiny part of its learning curve. And there is no reasonable logic on which this decision can be made – the only way to teach a game mechanic is to present it. The best way to integrate a new player is to let them experience the mechanics that they are supposed to be learning.

But enough on that. My point has been expressed by now. You’re a fantastic development team and I adore what you’re trying to do with this expansion, but when the occasional decision is bad (like merged mode queues for the upcoming PvP mode, for example), I have to call it out as being a bad decision for the further improvement of an already great concept in a great game.

This is content. Downscaling is meant to make it playable and rewarding. Even low level maps should work on all of the same reward systems as other content.

Sorry. I’m pretty sure they have zero interest in reigniting the Queensdale Train for 80s.

Nike.2631:

Sorry. I’m pretty sure they have zero interest in reigniting the Queensdale Train for 80s.

You mean the one that they literally removed from the game by turning the mobs to veterans?

That particular train won’t be coming back. Could a new train appear in any zone for any reason? Absolutely. That’s not a reason to not make game-wide decisions, however. Why? Because the fix is as simple as slapping a specific hard nerf on the abused content. Remove the event status on one of the chain events (like the Boar, for example), mess with spawn timers. It’s pretty easy, and much more sensible than “sorry, but these entire zones don’t use this reward system because reasons.”

i could be wrong but i believe earlier they also said they were going to tweak the NPE a bit so lets perhaps reserve judgement to see if they have done that or not

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Nike.2631:

Sorry. I’m pretty sure they have zero interest in reigniting the Queensdale Train for 80s.

You mean the one that they literally removed from the game by turning the mobs to veterans?

That particular train won’t be coming back. Could a new train appear in any zone for any reason? Absolutely. That’s not a reason to not make game-wide decisions, however. Why? Because the fix is as simple as slapping a specific hard nerf on the abused content. Remove the event status on one of the chain events (like the Boar, for example), mess with spawn timers. It’s pretty easy, and much more sensible than “sorry, but these entire zones don’t use this reward system because reasons.”

Eh, if you can’t extrapolate to the broader case they were fighting and its impact on decisions like this, I’m not gonna draw you a map.

If it’s the starter maps as they say, it’s only 5 maps and those are filled with low levels trying to kill mobs and get credit for events plus any higher level friends running around with them. The last thing low levels need is a higher levels stomping through the events and one shotting the mobs.

It’s one thing for high levels to play alongside low level friends. It’s another for high levels trying to get their rewards for things they need playing near low levels. In that case the low levels lose out (case in point, the zergs of high levels doing dailies in starter maps).

Nike.2631:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Nike.2631:

Sorry. I’m pretty sure they have zero interest in reigniting the Queensdale Train for 80s.

You mean the one that they literally removed from the game by turning the mobs to veterans?

That particular train won’t be coming back. Could a new train appear in any zone for any reason? Absolutely. That’s not a reason to not make game-wide decisions, however. Why? Because the fix is as simple as slapping a specific hard nerf on the abused content. Remove the event status on one of the chain events (like the Boar, for example), mess with spawn timers. It’s pretty easy, and much more sensible than “sorry, but these entire zones don’t use this reward system because reasons.”

Eh, if you can’t extrapolate to the broader case they were fighting and its impact on decisions like this, I’m not gonna draw you a map.

The broader case was addressed in that very comment. Just because “like the boar” was used as a contextual example does not change the phrasing of the paragraph as a whole to a specific one from a general. And I’ve bolded my extrapolation here to draw that map for you.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If it’s the starter maps as they say, it’s only 5 maps and those are filled with low levels trying to kill mobs and get credit for events plus any higher level friends running around with them. The last thing low levels need is a higher levels stomping through the events and one shotting the mobs.

It’s one thing for high levels to play alongside low level friends. It’s another for high levels trying to get their rewards for things they need playing near low levels. In that case the low levels lose out (case in point, the zergs of high levels doing dailies in starter maps).

That’s a fault in the downscaling system. It isn’t working as effectively as it should. And in part, you can blame some of our lovely forum community here for complaining when a “bug” improved the downscaling system’s effects and getting said “bug” swiftly “fixed.”

Now, I also didn’t say that the low level zones should be rewarding the same materials or in the same amounts as say… the Cursed Shore. Let’s say that Cursed Shore reward procs (like events or puzzles) have a 50% chance to grant 1-3 T6 mats. That’s no doubt not the actual case, but it works for our purposes. Queensdale could vary on any and all of these. It could still give T6 mats, but it might have a lower % proc chance or only drop 1 mat. Or, it could have a 50% chance to grant 1-3 T1 mats. Or it could vary on everything, having a low proc chance on T1 mats and only give one. In every case, it’s part of the overall rewards system and is balanced for the type of content that it is – but it still exists within the reward systems of the game, and the integration of this reward system into this map could, for example, help a low level player stock up on T1 mats faster.

Precursor rewards system not including 4 easy cheesy maps does not impede your “play the way you want” desires.

If you are spending a lot of time in starter zones, the “way you want” to play is already an unprofitable one.

Your request is like asking to get world completion points by playing sPvP. Play the way you want, but each way you play has different rewards.

I can’t believe you made a thread complaining that you can’t get precursor/legendary rewards from Queensdale. How very unimportant this thread is.

Anet made the right call here with this and it shows they learned their leasson with all the QQ that went about the Queensdale Champ train fiasco from entitled farmers. (farm my way or else nasty qq attitude rage in map chat)

JediYoda.1275:

Anet made the right call here with this and it shows they learned their leasson with all the QQ that went about the Queensdale Champ train fiasco from entitled farmers. (farm my way or else nasty qq attitude rage in map chat)

I was never an active Queensdale farmer. In fact, I HATED the champ trains for what they were – mindless, toxic, and bad for the game.

My argument here isn’t even for comparable T6 mat output. Use it as a chance to grant low players more T1 mats and make low level crafting faster and less obnoxious for players just coming in. THAT’S a new player experience.

You don’t get it, A.net doesn’t want lvl 80’s running around an entire map to get the MAP bonuses, nor should new players be exposed to the Map bonuses until they’ve left the starter zone and started venturing into Maps that might be more conducive to offering a Map bonus…it’s a starter zone for a reason, it doesn’t needed an additional added incentive.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

JediYoda.1275:

Anet made the right call here with this and it shows they learned their leasson with all the QQ that went about the Queensdale Champ train fiasco from entitled farmers. (farm my way or else nasty qq attitude rage in map chat)

I was never an active Queensdale farmer. In fact, I HATED the champ trains for what they were – mindless, toxic, and bad for the game.

My argument here isn’t even for comparable T6 mat output. Use it as a chance to grant low players more T1 mats and make low level crafting faster and less obnoxious for players just coming in. THAT’S a new player experience.

Obviously Anet disagrees and learned their lesson and they will say things changed in development in the direction they want to take the game. So by throwing up “play your way” defense only goes so far and gets shot down most of the time by Dev’s in post and by patches.

NO……………………………………………..

My hope would be that with the greater the effort (more time spent to earn it), the bigger the reward…nothing for starter is fine with me, but then the hardest maps LVL 80 and HoT map bonuses should be better than say 50-60 areas. At least that way new player experience would be more consistent and will keep the vets away from low areas to farm…Just my thoughts.