Guild Wars 2

Mastery points are there to get you to experience various aspects of the game rather than sit in one location and farm XP.

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

nekretaal.6485:

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

No.

Period.

This is one step away from “People who pay more should have an advantage”

Ayrilana.1396:

Mastery points are there to get you to experience various aspects of the game rather than sit in one location and farm XP.

whatever happened to the play as you like idea… now we “have” to experience the various aspects of the game? if that’s the case, i want sPvPers to join me in the maguma jungle, and them pve only types to have to sPvP in order to get into the maguma. That will “help” them experience the various aspects of the game. Especially the frustration one :P

But really now, if one wants to sit in one location and farm xp, why is that bad? and how is it any different from when ppl farm SW hours on end?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

nekretaal.6485:

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

No.

Period.

This is one step away from “People who pay more should have an advantage”

If tomes of experience don’t do what it says in the box, shouldn’t the people who get them get compensated for their loss?

I mean by making tomes not working as before, doesn’t that reduce their value in the pvp tracks and dailies? If you don’t want them to work on masteries, then those who have them should be compensated.

PorceleinEve.2973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

nekretaal.6485:

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

No.

Period.

This is one step away from “People who pay more should have an advantage”

If tomes of experience don’t do what it says in the box, shouldn’t the people who get them get compensated for their loss?

I mean by making tomes not working as before, doesn’t that reduce their value in the pvp tracks and dailies? If you don’t want them to work on masteries, then those who have them should be compensated.

They maintained the same value because they give a spirit shard to an 80 which is what they would have done before HoT. They are not being given ADDED value by contributing to Masteries.

Also why on earth do you want to burn through HoT’s Masteries in one evening? Its self defeating…

Also “compensation”… What has become of us -.-

PorceleinEve.2973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

nekretaal.6485:

GummiBear.2756:

and then everyone will hord up on tomes and instaunlock every single masteries a few minutes after HoT is released… That is beyond stupid

Tomes are from dailies and from Pvp. Players who put in time ought to get an advantage, & players who Pvp shouldn’t be left far behind.

No.

Period.

This is one step away from “People who pay more should have an advantage”

If tomes of experience don’t do what it says in the box, shouldn’t the people who get them get compensated for their loss?

I mean by making tomes not working as before, doesn’t that reduce their value in the pvp tracks and dailies? If you don’t want them to work on masteries, then those who have them should be compensated.

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

You mean you actually have to PLAY the game?? ;-)

I think the devs have done the right thing.

Coulter.2315:

They maintained the same value because they give a spirit shard to an 80 which is what they would have done before HoT. They are not being given ADDED value by contributing to Masteries.

Also why on earth do you want to burn through HoT’s Masteries in one evening? Its self defeating…

Also “compensation”… What has become of us -.-

They give a lvl, you get lvls by xp, thus they give xp. Masteries up with xp, therefore tomes should provide xp for mastery usage.

Why on earth is your concern what I want to do with my gametime? Nodoby forces you to use them, but that’s not enough is it? Everybody else must also not use them cause otherwise you just can’t enjoy the game.

What has become of us, is we became consumers. We understand (at least some of us) that the game is a product, and that we consume it, and that the people who provide us with the game, make profit out of our consumption. So, they’re not our friends, our buddies, our anything. They’re the sellers, and we the buyers. They don’t do us any favours, and the service they provide is not from the bottoms of their pure white hearts.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

The mastery system is a new system that uses the old system of xp. Tomes provide xp, stands to reason that tomes should provide mastery advancement. Otherwise remove them from the game and put something useful in their place.

Didn’t Anet mention a while ago that Masteries will be tied into the new Legendary Weapons when they were discussion how new Legendary Weapons are obtained differently?

From how they describe things it sounded like players may have to max level the Mastery before they can obtain the Legendary Weapons or obtain a vital part of creating the new Legendary Weapon but that is just a guess.

However, if this is true it would make sense that players would not be able to power level Mastery with ToK since that would obtained the new Legendary Weapons too easy.

I think there was even a guess that one of the Unknown Mastery is a Mastery track focused on giving parts for the new Legendary but as I said that was just a guess and should not be taken seriously.

PorceleinEve.2973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

The mastery system is a new system that uses the old system of xp. Tomes provide xp, stands to reason that tomes should provide mastery advancement. Otherwise remove them from the game and put something useful in their place.

Yes it uses XP, but as a new system it doesn’t necessarily have to use all things associated with giving XP. As such, there is no reason why they should or “have to” work with this system. However, there is no reason to remove these items from working with the base system (character leveling) for which they were designed.

As opposed to the system we got now where we can just buy them on the trading post?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes it uses XP, but as a new system it doesn’t necessarily have to use all things associated with giving XP. As such, there is no reason why they should or “have to” work with this system. However, there is no reason to remove these items from working with the base system (character leveling) for which they were designed.

A valid point indeed. So are we to expect that xp boosters won’t be working either? Cause the same argument applies… for consistency purposes.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Coulter.2315:

They maintained the same value because they give a spirit shard to an 80 which is what they would have done before HoT. They are not being given ADDED value by contributing to Masteries.

Also why on earth do you want to burn through HoT’s Masteries in one evening? Its self defeating…

Also “compensation”… What has become of us -.-

They give a lvl, you get lvls by xp, thus they give xp. Masteries up with xp, therefore tomes should provide xp for mastery usage.

Why on earth is your concern what I want to do with my gametime? Nodoby forces you to use them, but that’s not enough is it? Everybody else must also not use them cause otherwise you just can’t enjoy the game.

What has become of us, is we became consumers. We understand (at least some of us) that the game is a product, and that we consume it, and that the people who provide us with the game, make profit out of our consumption. So, they’re not our friends, our buddies, our anything. They’re the sellers, and we the buyers. They don’t do us any favours, and the service they provide is not from the bottoms of their pure white hearts.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

The mastery system is a new system that uses the old system of xp. Tomes provide xp, stands to reason that tomes should provide mastery advancement. Otherwise remove them from the game and put something useful in their place.

Tomes do not give XP. Tomes give you a level. XP and level are not the same. You’re confusing the acquisition method of levels as being one and the same when they’re not.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Coulter.2315:

They maintained the same value because they give a spirit shard to an 80 which is what they would have done before HoT. They are not being given ADDED value by contributing to Masteries.

Also why on earth do you want to burn through HoT’s Masteries in one evening? Its self defeating…

Also “compensation”… What has become of us -.-

They give a lvl, you get lvls by xp, thus they give xp. Masteries up with xp, therefore tomes should provide xp for mastery usage.

Why on earth is your concern what I want to do with my gametime? Nodoby forces you to use them, but that’s not enough is it? Everybody else must also not use them cause otherwise you just can’t enjoy the game.

What has become of us, is we became consumers. We understand (at least some of us) that the game is a product, and that we consume it, and that the people who provide us with the game, make profit out of our consumption. So, they’re not our friends, our buddies, our anything. They’re the sellers, and we the buyers. They don’t do us any favours, and the service they provide is not from the bottoms of their pure white hearts.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tomes continue to do exactly as they did before. They give 100% of a level. Before 80, that levels you up, after 80 is a skill point. Skill points have become spirit shards and tomes used on a level 80 do grant a shard. As such, their functionality has not changed. There is no need for compensation.

The mastery system is a new system. There is no precedent of tomes working with this system, because this system did not exist. Thus again, tome functionality has not changed in this regard either. So, no need for compensation.

Edit: Fixing my terrible, terrible typing.

The mastery system is a new system that uses the old system of xp. Tomes provide xp, stands to reason that tomes should provide mastery advancement. Otherwise remove them from the game and put something useful in their place.

Actually, the mastery system is something they said does not use the old system of XP. Which is why tomes won’t give XP to level 80s after the expansion as they will be switched over to the Mastery system. It’s similar, true, but it’s something else as yet unnamed.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”

Ayrilana.1396:

Tomes do not give XP. Tomes give you a level. XP and level are not the same. You’re confusing the acquisition method of levels as being one and the same when they’re not.

If that was true (it isn’t, but let’s assume for a moment that it is) then it should also give you a mastery lvl. They are after all Tomes of Experience. You read the book, you get “experience”. Makes sense.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, the mastery system is something they said does not use the old system of XP. Which is why tomes won’t give XP to level 80s after the expansion as they will be switched over to the Mastery system. It’s similar, true, but it’s something else as yet unnamed.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”

That’s just semantics and you know it. Unless those stuff you’ll be doing in the world that would fill that bar, aren’t the same exact stuff you’ll be doing to get to 80. Changing the name doesn’t make it any different.

But sure, if they’ll add activities that don’t give xp normally but only mastery training credit, I’m all for it. Somehow I doubt it though. Call me cynical

PorceleinEve.2973:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tomes do not give XP. Tomes give you a level. XP and level are not the same. You’re confusing the acquisition method of levels as being one and the same when they’re not.

If that was true (it isn’t, but let’s assume for a moment that it is) then it should also give you a mastery lvl. They are after all Tomes of Experience. You read the book, you get “experience”. Makes sense.

It is true. check the tooltip, the wiki, and try it out yourself. If you have 50,000 XP, using a tome progresses your level by one while maintaining the XP you had already progressed towards the next level. If you’re level 50 with 50,000 XP towards 51, using a tome will make you level 51 with 50,000 XP towards 52.

Mastery progression is achieved by gaining experience and not levels. This argument is pointless anyway as they’ve already stated the tomes only grant spirit shards once you reached level 80. I know you want to be able to sit in LA on day 1 and use your stacks of times to have every mastery unlocked within a matter of minutes but that is not going to be the case.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Actually, the mastery system is something they said does not use the old system of XP. Which is why tomes won’t give XP to level 80s after the expansion as they will be switched over to the Mastery system. It’s similar, true, but it’s something else as yet unnamed.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”

That’s just semantics and you know it. Unless those stuff you’ll be doing in the world that would fill that bar, aren’t the same exact stuff you’ll be doing to get to 80. Changing the name doesn’t make it any different.

But sure, if they’ll add activities that don’t give xp normally but only mastery training credit, I’m all for it. Somehow I doubt it though. Call me cynical

It’s not exactly semantics. Exp levels your bar no matter where you are and what you are doing and applies to only one character. Progress in the mastery system applies to all characters simultaneously but won’t progress your glider training in the vanilla map and it won’t progress your Legendary crafting training If you’re in the new map. Once you get all Masteries to max, it won’t progress anything, no matter what you do.

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

Ayrilana.1396:

It is true. check the tooltip, the wiki, and try it out yourself. If you have 50,000 XP, using a tome progresses your level by one while maintaining the XP you had already progressed towards the next level. If you’re level 50 with 50,000 XP towards 51, using a tome will make you level 51 with 50,000 XP towards 52.

Mastery progression is achieved by gaining experience and not levels. This argument is pointless anyway as they’ve already stated the tomes only grant spirit shards once you reached level 80. I know you want to be able to sit in LA on day 1 and use your stacks of times to have every mastery unlocked within a matter of minutes but that is not going to be the case.

No, I don’t use my tomes at all. They have no use for me. Must have around 750 of them.

Maybe use them to get wvw lvls if they start to really clog up my bank or something. And I don’t even plan to lvl my revenant with tomes cause, I like lvling up characters (that’s why I already got 8 of them).

But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want others to do that also. If they want to use tomes for their masteries it’s fine by me. I’m not affected in any way. They probably be ruining for themselves, but it’s still their choice.

Also they couldn’t really use them to unlock all their masteries cause they’ll still would need to go out in the world and get the mastery points to unlock ’em. Just saying.

The point here isn’t tomes, is the mastery system it self. It’s a weak and empty system that offers nothing to the game. And the op tried to correct that.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not exactly semantics. Exp levels your bar no matter where you are and what you are doing and applies to only one character. Progress in the mastery system applies to all characters simultaneously but won’t progress your glider training in the vanilla map and it won’t progress your Legendary crafting training If you’re in the new map. Once you get all Masteries to max, it won’t progress anything, no matter what you do.

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

That’s a very valid point.

Again you won’t be breezing through the masteries to get them, you still need the points to unlock them but the globality of the system is an issue with tomes. I’ve never given much thought to that, it does increase the value of the tome significantly.

So let’s reduce the mastery xp you get from tomes to something that’s more in line? Zero seems a bit too harsh on me.

The problem here, isn’t the tomes imo. But the mastery system it self. As a horizontal advancement system it leaves a lot to be desired. Prepare to see it get iterated at future feature patches.

PorceleinEve.2973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes it uses XP, but as a new system it doesn’t necessarily have to use all things associated with giving XP. As such, there is no reason why they should or “have to” work with this system. However, there is no reason to remove these items from working with the base system (character leveling) for which they were designed.

A valid point indeed. So are we to expect that xp boosters won’t be working either? Cause the same argument applies… for consistency purposes.

In the zam article that someone else quoted, I do believe it says that things like xp boosters, banners, etc, wouldn’t affect xp gain for masteries. It sounds like they may have changed their mind on this, given some of the beta testing.

Although Ayrilana makes a good point. Tomes don’t actually state they give you xp. They state that they give you a level which technically speaking could be considered two separate things. They are related, but they aren’t actually the same.

The Mastery system as it is now is too complicated. Earning XP to unlock a skill/ability is fine. Earning points to unlock a skill/ability is fine. Having to do both is unnecessary.

Picking one system of the other would make the experience a lot more fun.

What would also add to the fun would be to tie the various skill trees to a quest to unlock the tree. Learn gliding from an NPC, learn a language from an NPC, etc. It be a lot more interesting, and logical, than magically knowing something from killing a bunch of monsters.

The way it’s set up now you have to kill mobs and do events to progress your mastery then do something specific to get the mastery point. If I have tons of tomes, why (theoretically speaking) should I bother to join in with everyone else who is doing events? I should just pop a tome, get a mastery point by doing the whatever, pop a tome, get a mastery point, pop a tome, get a mastery point, pop a tome……..

How in the world could this be considered good for the game as a whole? Sure, it’s great for the individual player with a stack or two of tomes to breeze past all the events and content that the devs put in the expansion but it’s a bad idea for the game as a whole to set it up so that players don’t need to play your expansion to get the main reward of it. All those who don’t have the tomes are disadvantaged since they can’t bypass the content to fast progress their Masteries. They are also disadvantaged by the lack of these other players to do the events with them. They are left standing in the dirt while the “tome mastery” players are flying past them. It’s one of those things that are great for the individual but bad for the game.

Mastery System is also account bound if I remember correctly from beta since all my Beta characters shared the Mastery progress.

As I tested the beta version of the Mastery system it seems the Mastery System is Account bound so all progress is shared with all characters.

ToK is faster for leveling a single character but with Mastery System being account bound I can see why they wouldn’t want players to suddenly max level a account level system with ToK since players will not be leveling a individual character when leveling Mastery but as a Account leveling system.

If Mastery System was not account bound then it would be less of a issues for ToK to be used. However, currently Mastery System is based as a Account leveling system.

For example, if a player unlocked gliding and mushroom jump in the Mastery system already then all new lvl 80 characters will also have gliding and mushroom jump as well once they reach lvl 80.

People are already complaining that they won’t be able to instantly acquire all the new content in the xpac the second it goes live? They are upset that they will have to actually play the game?

kitten it, just pack it up Anet. It’s not even worth the effort anymore…

Substance E.4852:

People are already complaining that they won’t be able to instantly acquire all the new content in the xpac the second it goes live? They are upset that they will have to actually play the game?

No, literally NOBODY is saying that.

What some of us are saying is that we do not like the vista/skill point-a-like mastery points and would rather acquisition of masteries were tied only to the mastery bar. This means that, yes, people would need to play the game to advance their masteries. However we would be free to play those aspects of the game that we enjoy rather than be forced to take part in specific activities or forego any chance at advancing our characters.

Whether or not ToKs should affect the mastery bar is another discussion entirely (but thanks for derailing this one) though, for the record, I would be very much on the side of no, they shouldn’t.

Naw. I like it how it is.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

~!Snip~

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

Um, Masteries are account wide, therefore what ever you do on 1 character applies to all characters…no need to level up your Masteries for each character.

Zaklex.6308:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

~!Snip~

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

Um, Masteries are account wide, therefore what ever you do on 1 character applies to all characters…no need to level up your Masteries for each character.

I’d read his post again including the part you cut out.

Zaklex.6308:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not exactly semantics. Exp levels your bar no matter where you are and what you are doing and applies to only one character. Progress in the mastery system applies to all characters simultaneously but won’t progress your glider training in the vanilla map and it won’t progress your Legendary crafting training If you’re in the new map. Once you get all Masteries to max, it won’t progress anything, no matter what you do.

One problem with using tomes to advance Masteries is that it would simultaneously advance ALL your characters at the same time. You could use enough tomes to get all your level 80s to max mastery. With the current system you could only advance one char at a time. That’s a lot of bang for your buck, to get all your level 80s to max mastery in a few minutes.

Um, Masteries are account wide, therefore what ever you do on 1 character applies to all characters…no need to level up your Masteries for each character.

(Added back in the part you snipped)

Adding in the part you snipped out of my post shows I know it’s account wide. That particular post was a response to the ongoing discussion about tome use and I was pointing out the harm of using tomes to level Masteries, since it helps you speed level your whole account through the mastery lines as you don’t need to do events to progress the Masteries and the difference from current tome use in that currently one tome only advances one character at a time

There must be a better way. I hate this xp waste! Why bother doing events or anything that grants xp?

We are closing this thread as the discussion has run its course.