Masteries too easy?
It might, it might not. They clearly want it to be accessible. 10 levels is still a pretty big time investment.
Each increased level requires more and more mastery points.
I was looking through the masteries and I noticed the final one required 10 levels to get. I’m not sure if I am correct but I believe that is what the 10 means. If that is correct, then I think the mastery system will be far too easy to complete and serves as no optimal end-game as promised. Getting 10 levels can be done by a hardcore gamer in a single day by running dungeons/fractals. I’m not sure by how much, but they certainly need to increase the amount of levels required. What is everyone else’s thoughts on this?
Although untested (not possible in the beta either), I have the impression you gain mastery-xp when in the heart of the maguuma. So not when you do e.g. dungeons.
I don’t think the mastery’s are designed to be end game grind content either. For that we still got the legendary’s (specially the new ones)
Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!
Arise, opressed of Tyria!
Also something to note is that while level 1 of the Glider Mastery required around 250k exp level 2 took over 1 million. So I don’t know what the later levels will require but it seems the 1st ranks are pretty easy while the later ones will take a lot longer.
The 10 means you require 10 mastery points. It does not reflect the time it takes to “train”.
Training the second mastery level takes about 4x as long as the first. I believe only the first one in each is “fast” to level but didn’t have time to get a second mastery in any tree so can’t test further.
Also, you will only level HoT masteries by playing HoT content. Similarly content in the base game will have masteries that can be unlocked by playing in the base game.
Defiantly NOT to easy, only 2 masteries over all 3 BETA’s yeah too darn slow IMO
Also something to note is that while level 1 of the Glider Mastery required around 250k exp level 2 took over 1 million. So I don’t know what the later levels will require but it seems the 1st ranks are pretty easy while the later ones will take a lot longer.
Came to say this. Just because the bar is the same size doesn’t mean they can’t make higher level ones take MUCH longer to get. Not to mention some of the mastery points may be very difficult to get, making you choose between finishing certain things and leaving others for later.
Defiantly NOT to easy, only 2 masteries over all 3 BETA’s yeah too darn slow IMO
What would be the point if you could level all your masteries in a weekend :P
IMO I find it pretty boring and soulless to grind out xp bars at this point. I was actually getting quite fond of just plain ignoring the xp bar.
what I thought masteries would be like would be almost like a zelda/metroidvania like system where you had to find upgrades to get to new places (or in our case mastery points to upgrade our masteries and go new places) but that xp grind between acquiring a mastery point and being able to do something with is yawn. It feels like a chore rather than fun.
I’m saving as many writs of experience as possible at this point to skip the suck part of the mastery system when I can.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
This system is here to gate the mini maps, not to add any depth in the game.
Basically grind/time gating at it’s finest. Glad there’s no grind in this game then….
WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.
IMO I find it pretty boring and soulless to grind out xp bars at this point. I was actually getting quite fond of just plain ignoring the xp bar.
what I thought masteries would be like would be almost like a zelda/metroidvania like system where you had to find upgrades to get to new places (or in our case mastery points to upgrade our masteries and go new places) but that xp grind between acquiring a mastery point and being able to do something with is yawn. It feels like a chore rather than fun.
In “most other games”, when an expansion launches you get an new max-level and new max-level gear you have to grind XP for. With the HoT expansion, that max-level does not change but you grind XP for masteries.
So this way in HoT is kind of better than in “most other games”, but you can still call it a grind.
They seem only to implement the zelda/metroidvania idea, that you need special abilities (masteries) to master the new content, but not the way how you aquire those abilities/masteries.
Not in favour of XP to level mastery. Would be better to attain mastery levels by an achievement at each level with less weight on xp…far less of a grind. Gliding, mushrooms are meant to be a fun aspect of the game not a grind to get.
Funny fact: currently you need 254k exp to level up, but in Heart of Maguuma you need roughly 1kk exp to level up glider I to glider II.
Tbh I don’t mind. At least it will keep me busy, and I don’t like to beat everything and quickly reach the rinse ’n repeat train. (Y)
(edited by Valento.9852)
Are the masteries supposed to be account bound or character bound?
account i had made a new char and already had my glider in silverwastes
IMO I find it pretty boring and soulless to grind out xp bars at this point. I was actually getting quite fond of just plain ignoring the xp bar.
what I thought masteries would be like would be almost like a zelda/metroidvania like system where you had to find upgrades to get to new places (or in our case mastery points to upgrade our masteries and go new places) but that xp grind between acquiring a mastery point and being able to do something with is yawn. It feels like a chore rather than fun.
In “most other games”, when an expansion launches you get an new max-level and new max-level gear you have to grind XP for. With the HoT expansion, that max-level does not change but you grind XP for masteries.
So this way in HoT is kind of better than in “most other games”, but you can still call it a grind.
They seem only to implement the zelda/metroidvania idea, that you need special abilities (masteries) to master the new content, but not the way how you aquire those abilities/masteries.
It is better than most MMO’s that keep increasing the level cap but it could be even better.
Just the idea of masteries has me interested in the prospect of a metroidvania/Zelda like progression in an MMO, where finding tools and upgrades and hidden skills is how you progress and advance rather than just killing mobs over and over or doing quests over and over for xp.
That’d be combining two of my favorite things in games really.. progression through finding tools and skills, and being in a big open world to explore with lots of other people.
Too bad the genre is filled with nothing but soulless xp grind.
Can we at least get a hookshot?
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
account i had made a new char and already had my glider in silverwastes
I can confirm this, i too made a new character and had kept my mastery (in my case it was the mushrooms though :P)
Just the idea of masteries has me interested in the prospect of a metroidvania/Zelda like progression in an MMO, where finding tools and upgrades and hidden skills is how you progress and advance rather than just killing mobs over and over or doing quests over and over for xp.
That’d be combining two of my favorite things in games really.. progression through finding tools and skills, and being in a big open world to explore with lots of other people.
Too bad the genre is filled with nothing but soulless xp grind.
Can we at least get a hookshot?
I’m not saying that the new masteries aren’t just a different type of grind, but I think the system has some merits.
There’s a couple of down sides with progression through finding tools and skills:
If you are finding them, does that make them character bound, if so, that would get really borring and tedious to do on alts.
There will quickly be a “checklist” of how to get all of the items within 1-2 hours. Dulfy and other members of the community make wonderful guides for all of the various collectable achievements or jumping puzzles, and usually they come out within a day or two of the content going live. So now you have “most” players (or at least a substantial portion) who can use these guides and find everything in a matter of hours. Personally, I am all for this. I would much rather look up where something I’m missing is than spend 1-2 hours instead of 5 min. But, it kills the longevity of content, and the point of masteries is to replace a gear grind. And even still I doubt it will take more than 1-2 weeks or maybe 1-2 months to finish grinding everything needed.
Also, if you just had to get to X spot to get an item. Nothing stops a mesmer from just porting people there, and making it trivial, again I love that the option exists, but it doesn’t make for something long lasting.
They already said that the mastery bar won’t be progressed by experience but by doing content. This would mean you can’t run dungeons repeatedly to progress it. Most likely it’s going to be something like achieves where it’s new content done once to progress by a certain amount.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
Keep in mind we don’t know what kind of Exp the various events will give out when HoT releases. In the stress test I was able to get Glider up to level 5(which was max at that time) by repeatedly doing the Wyvern event as it was awarding 96k exp with each victory…and just to show how the number aren’t finalized…doing the very first story event in the latest beta awarded 720009 Exp, yes 720k…now tell me that isn’t a working number.
They already said that the mastery bar won’t be progressed by experience but by doing content. This would mean you can’t run dungeons repeatedly to progress it. Most likely it’s going to be something like achieves where it’s new content done once to progress by a certain amount.
If you tried to gain any levels in Masteries during the Closed Beta by activating one, you would have seen that each event you completed added exp to the Mastery bar just like completing events before level 80 adds to the Exp bar…same principal applies to Masteries, but you also need to gather Mastery Points to spend, those are what will prevent someone from repeatedly doing dungeons to advance the Mastery levels.
(edited by Zaklex.6308)
Keep in mind we don’t know what kind of Exp the various events will give out when HoT releases. In the stress test I was able to get Glider up to level 5(which was max at that time) by repeatedly doing the Wyvern event as it was awarding 96k exp with each victory…and just to show how the number aren’t finalized…doing the very first story event in the latest beta awarded 720009 Exp, yes 720k…now tell me that isn’t a working number.
They already said that the mastery bar won’t be progressed by experience but by doing content. This would mean you can’t run dungeons repeatedly to progress it. Most likely it’s going to be something like achieves where it’s new content done once to progress by a certain amount.
If you tried to gain any levels in Masteries during the Closed Beta by activating one, you would have seen that each event you completed added exp to the Mastery bar just like completing events before level 80 adds to the Exp bar…same principal applies to Masteries, but you also need to gather Mastery Points to spend, those are what will prevent someone from repeatedly doing dungeons to advance the Mastery levels.
My comment about exp is because of this post.
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”
So, Masteries will not be progressed by exp but something like it, not yet named. In that case, it probably won’t be progressed by dungeons repeatedly but by doing relevant events.
Edit: I saw footage from this last beta and it does show exp popping up with kills and events but this may be because the client is still the old, pre expansion client and it’s not switched over to a new system where the mastery bar progresses by something that is not exp (although similar to it).
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Basically grind/time gating at it’s finest. Glad there’s no grind in this game then….
Want everything immediately and then moan that here’s nothing in the game the work towards.
This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.
…except they do. Has been checked already.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.
…except they do. Has been checked already.
Look at my quote (above and repeated here) again plz. The quote you attributed to me was actually a quote from an interview with Jon Peters and Kristen Bornemann where they specifically said the Masteries will not. Remember that this is still the old exp based client and is not switched over to the new client where the mastery system is finalized.
The reason I think it’s still based on the old client is if you watch a video of the last beta, you will see exp pop up after kills and events and because tomes will currently advance the Mastery bar. Since they said “This training bar is in no way tied to experience,” this exp showing up and advancing the bar shows, imo, that it’s still the old client and the old exp bar modified to look like the mastery bar.
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35818&storypage=2
“The masteries seen in the demo are just the tip of what masteries will be available at launch, and the team will have more surprises for players. We wanted to know if all those consumables, like Tomes of Knowledge and Writs of Experience, would help players unlock all of these masteries faster. The short answer is that they won’t. The experience bar is going away and is being replaced by the mastery training bar. This training bar is in no way tied to experience, but fills up by going out and doing stuff in the world. So any item that gives you experience won’t help you train masteries.”
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Getting 10 levels can be done by a hardcore gamer in a single day by running dungeons/fractals. I’m not sure by how much, but they certainly need to increase the amount of levels required. What is everyone else’s thoughts on this?
Why should the game be balanced around the small percentage of hardcore gamers who would grind out 10 levels a day in Fractals?
I don’t think the mastery’s are designed to be end game grind content either. For that we still got the legendary’s (specially the new ones)
You’re kidding, right? Masteries were specifically designed to be end-game progression.
That’s exactly the gap they are supposed to fill.
" We want to introduce a new framework for endgame progression and a meaningful way for players to grow their characters and their experience once they’ve reached the maximum level in the game."
I can’t grasp how you could not think that Masteries are end-game grind/progression. Every single thing about them indicates that if not having Anet just saying “this is the new end-game progression”
I am fine with grinding masteries, I take that. There, I accepted the grind.
Getting 10 levels can be done by a hardcore gamer in a single day by running dungeons/fractals. I’m not sure by how much, but they certainly need to increase the amount of levels required. What is everyone else’s thoughts on this?
Why should the game be balanced around the small percentage of hardcore gamers who would grind out 10 levels a day in Fractals?
Well we still have no clue how much lvl 3-7 of each mastery will cost. It can’t be a linear x4 progression because I did some quick math and it was like ~230 odd days of play time (assuming 1 hour per lvl 1 mastery) to finish only 1 line. Heck even if it just doubled in exp cost after each level (I know it doesn’t, but for the sake of argument), it’d still take 127 hours of playtime to finish 1 line. While more reasonable, it’s still a lot, especially when you consider the 5 HoT lines that we know of (while I can’t seem to find a dev post, I’ve seen other say that the 5 we can see are just some of the ones that we’re getting). Still though, 27 days worth of grinding exp does sound like a bit much, but who knows. Maybe there will be areas with more event chains to speed things up.
If you look at SW you can do 6-10 events in ~5 minutes (2 defenses, 2 mordren vets, and however many yaks you can escort). That’s a little more than 10min per level, no including mob kills with exp/kill streak boosters. So you don’t even need to do dungeons/fractals if you want to level quick in the core game. You just need to find an event train farm, of which there are many.