Guild Wars 2

Ralanost.8913:

The problem is more with what dragonhunter symbolizes in Tyria. We are all hunter of elder dragons and their minions. Yet Guardians get a specialization that makes them extra special at fighting them? It just doesn’t make sense. Reaper for Necro? It makes all the sense in the world. How can you even compare the two?

The same can technically be said for Reaper as well. Especially since it’s already a title in-game that any profession can get.

Erukk.1408:

Ralanost.8913:

The problem is more with what dragonhunter symbolizes in Tyria. We are all hunter of elder dragons and their minions. Yet Guardians get a specialization that makes them extra special at fighting them? It just doesn’t make sense. Reaper for Necro? It makes all the sense in the world. How can you even compare the two?

The same can technically be said for Reaper as well. Especially since it’s already a title in-game that any profession can get.

It really can’t. Reaper has different connotations. Reapers are servants of Grenth, the god of death. They symbolize much like our own grim reaper. There are lore reasons that make Reaper make sense for Necros. Dragonhunter doesn’t make sense at all for Guardians, no matter what Anet says. I’m generally fine with the spec, the name is just nonsensical.

Ralanost.8913:

It really can’t. Reaper has different connotations. Reapers are servants of Grenth, the god of death. They symbolize much like our own grim reaper. There are lore reasons that make Reaper make sense for Necros. Dragonhunter doesn’t make sense at all for Guardians, no matter what Anet says. I’m generally fine with the spec, the name is just nonsensical.

It would have that deep connection to Grenth and his Reapers for humans in Tyria, sure. The other races would probably just connect the word “reaper” to a general (non-Grenth related) bringer of death, and that could be applied to anyone who kills a bunch of people/things. Like the pvp title implies.

Erukk.1408:

Ralanost.8913:

It really can’t. Reaper has different connotations. Reapers are servants of Grenth, the god of death. They symbolize much like our own grim reaper. There are lore reasons that make Reaper make sense for Necros. Dragonhunter doesn’t make sense at all for Guardians, no matter what Anet says. I’m generally fine with the spec, the name is just nonsensical.

It would have that deep connection to Grenth and his Reapers for humans in Tyria, sure. The other races would probably just connect the word “reaper” to a general (non-Grenth related) bringer of death, and that could be applied to anyone who kills a bunch of people/things. Like the pvp title implies.

Sorry, but everyone knows about Grenth’s reapers. Hell, we barter with one in the personal story. These aren’t things that are lost to the ages. They exist.

It really doesn’t matter what the elite spec is called, its just a name. It can represent what they do, or it can represent what they are associated with. The Reaper reaps souls so its name can indicate what they do, but there are also Grenth reapers, so it could suggest they are followers of Grenth. How you want to role play that name is up to you, but I suspect Anet will create some story to explain what each elite specialization is about and why they are called what they are. And if they don’t then it matters even less, because then it’s down to your imagination to explain why your character is called a Reaper.

Whether the name is generic or not it really doesn’t matter.

Ralanost.8913:

Sorry, but everyone knows about Grenth’s reapers. Hell, we barter with one in the personal story. These aren’t things that are lost to the ages. They exist.

I know, but not all the races have such a deep and implied connection to the word like the humans do. If a Charr warrior got the Reaper title, people aren’t going to say, “Wow! I didn’t know a Charr could be a necromantic servant of Grenth!” They’re saying, “Wow! That Charr sure did kill a bunch of people!”

That’s why I said that technically same can be said about Reapers that’s said about Dragon Hunter. Anyone can become a hunter of dragons and their minions, and anyone could also be considered a “Reaper” (and even get a title proclaiming that fact) if they kill enough people.

Guhracie.3419:

Pookie, I suspect engie will be last to get the showcase, but I’m pretty hopeful that it will impress as well. I’m really thrilled with the speculated hammer as their new weapon.

I usually run thief, so I’m very interested in their spec, but I have yet to see rifle done well. I wish they were getting maces or axes, but I know the reasoning for the rifle is sound.

Depending on how these next few months shake out, I’m really considering getting the expansion.

Yeah, my hopes are def high for that hammer and the mini drones.

i do have to say with the Reaper, they’ve pushed me much closer to the “want to buy” category as well. I’ve been doing thief a bit more myself lately and have been really enjoying her a bit more so I’m excited for what they might intro for them as well.

I’m most worried about Warrior though since they already have access to most of the weapons in the game so what does that mean for them in the long run?

Erukk.1408:

That’s why I said that technically same can be said about Reapers that’s said about Dragon Hunter. Anyone can become a hunter of dragons and their minions, and anyone could also be considered a “Reaper” (and even get a title proclaiming that fact) if they kill enough people.

Yes, i get the goofy feeling of the name. i know that many of us imagine some 12 year old at the D&D table for the first time introducing his half-elf warrior named Sylvan Deathmaker when we first heard the name, BUT…

While anyone can become a hunter of dragons, i think they meant it thus:
Just as a warrior in D&D might follow the teachings of a certain god, they are still a warrior and not say, a Paladin or cleric of that god. In the same vein, in GW2 while everyone is fighting against the dragons, the Guardians felt a deeper calling to this one particular act and having been the GW2 equiv of a paladin already, it made sense for them to take on this “calling” similar to how vampire slayers or witch hunters develop that singular unrelenting focus on going after and trying to erradicate whatever it is they are going after. Its more a description of an obsession fueled by events in the world around them. To that end then, i can be a bit more forgiving of the name. Even more so if the way we get the class introduced is because something happens to Eir, spurring her son on to take up her bow in search of her or to avenge her.
Then the fanaticism would definitely make sense.

Seriously, we play a game with “Warrior” and “Ranger” as class names already. Dragonhunter, while on the surface not as flashy or cool at first glance as Chronomancer or Reaper is still fine and possibly more understandable when tying it to actual class motivations.

Like few people already said, I’m also concerned about GS being viable in pvp with all movement, dodge, vigor and disables. He won’t be able to do anything unless there’s some crazy synergy with quickness and chronomancer’s alacrity buff.

Tarot.4250:

Like few people already said, I’m also concerned about GS being viable in pvp with all movement, dodge, vigor and disables. He won’t be able to do anything unless there’s some crazy synergy with quickness and chronomancer’s alacrity buff.

I dunno, I think people are overreacting based on very limited info.

Years of MMORPG experience (16) tells me that this objection is made every single time a “slow, hard-hitting” class is added to a game with significant PvP. People are all “He’ll be chain-cc’d” or “He’ll be chain-interrupted” or “People will just run away!”, and overall the class is dismissed by lots of people as “useless for PvP”.

Cut to a month after expansion release:

Now the whining is “OMG SLOW-HITTER IS TOO OP!” “I got one-shot by slow-hitter, nerf now!” and so on.

The fact is, people in general aren’t very good at chain-CC, chain-interrupts, or always running away in time. If you have a class that really does hit slowly and hard, they are going to kill a lot of people – some of whom will be chain-CC’d themselves or the like.

That’s my experience, of course – maybe GW2’s Reaper will be the exception and just suck.

But I really doubt it.

Yeah, I’m thinking the first time a thief or some other GC jumps on mid and two of these necro hit them with blasts of chill and other condi they can’t easily cleanse and are more or less rooted while the nightmare of blows come in, there will be a big outcry of "they are too tanky and do so much damage nerfynerfnerf.

Who knows though.

I look forward to seeing new metas born from the new specs. Might make for some interesting counter play and seeing how people react to their routine being upended.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Yeah, I’m thinking the first time a thief or some other GC jumps on mid and two of these necro hit them with blasts of chill and other condi they can’t easily cleanse and are more or less rooted while the nightmare of blows come in, there will be a big outcry of "they are too tanky and do so much damage nerfynerfnerf.

Who knows though.

I look forward to seeing new metas born from the new specs. Might make for some interesting counter play and seeing how people react to their routine being upended.

Well that is the problem of extremes, if the class has long casting skills with fairly long CDs like 20s or so. Then they will have to be fairly resilient to compensate the fact that they are extremely easy to dodge/interupt.

A tad bit more information. I’m a bit bummed that none of the shouts cause Taunt. Mechanically it seems a mistake not to give Reaper access to Taunt.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/9691/Guild-Wars-2-Jon-Peters-on-the-Reaper-Elite-Spec.html

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Guhracie.3419:

Pookie, I suspect engie will be last to get the showcase, but I’m pretty hopeful that it will impress as well. I’m really thrilled with the speculated hammer as their new weapon.

I usually run thief, so I’m very interested in their spec, but I have yet to see rifle done well. I wish they were getting maces or axes, but I know the reasoning for the rifle is sound.

Depending on how these next few months shake out, I’m really considering getting the expansion.

Yeah, my hopes are def high for that hammer and the mini drones.

i do have to say with the Reaper, they’ve pushed me much closer to the “want to buy” category as well. I’ve been doing thief a bit more myself lately and have been really enjoying her a bit more so I’m excited for what they might intro for them as well.

I’m most worried about Warrior though since they already have access to most of the weapons in the game so what does that mean for them in the long run?

For me, I feel like warrior is already just fine. The spec would have to be extremely interesting to get my attention. Moving forward, I feel like a new weapon won’t be necessary for each elite spec. Maybe a new way of using an old weapon, or just new mechanics introduced.

Cloth class with no evades/blocks/invuls in melee, better be packing something in that shroud form we dont know about. Hope it earns the title of shroud “knight” for a reason.

I rolled a necro in prep, not being sure I’d enjoy them pre-reaper.

I was very wrong. Having sooooo much fun with an axe on a necro right now.

We for those like me, concerned about long casting time skills, this does not bode well at all:
From an interview with the devs, a question concerning this exact matter.
“Jon Peters, Game Design Lead: It’s all relative. We are trying to get a feel so I believe instead of taking a total of 1.5 seconds to complete the 3 part combo like the warrior and Guardian the Necro hits a bit harder but his combo is somewhere between 1.75 and 2 seconds long for all 3 attacks combined. In general, he has attacks that tend to be in the .75 to 1 second time frame instead of .5 to .75. In reality it’s a small difference and these attacks hit hard enough to make up for it. We feel like this is a really nice combination to go along with the Chill effects that reapers bring to the table.”

We still have to wait and see, but it is rather surprising that after the fiasco the guardian hammer is/was, they insisted on this aproach.

Specially since they seem to be out of touch with the fact that casting time, does not account for animation time, so the REAL casting time for the skills is much longer as stated in their own wiki for the guardian hammer
-Actual attack speed is once every .83 seconds for the first two swings, then 2 seconds for the symbol. The full chain completes in 3.7 seconds.
VS the stated casting times on the skills which are 0.5, 0.5 and 1.25 for a grand total of 2.25 vs the actual 3.7 hence why nobody uses it. And keep in mind hit or miss you still get the simbol with the hammer.

Invictus.1503:

A tad bit more information. I’m a bit bummed that none of the shouts cause Taunt. Mechanically it seems a mistake not to give Reaper access to Taunt.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/9691/Guild-Wars-2-Jon-Peters-on-the-Reaper-Elite-Spec.html

Its kind of obvious, though.

You should “Fear the Reaper”,

not “Taunt the Reaper”

Kilger.5490:

Cloth class with no evades/blocks/invuls in melee, better be packing something in that shroud form we dont know about. Hope it earns the title of shroud “knight” for a reason.

What does it being a cloth profession have to do with anything? Besides, Warrior does it and mostly just has invulnerability on short durations/long recharge. Also, it’s a Necromancer! It has blinds and dark fields too on top of having a 2nd HP bar.

Leo G.4501:

Kilger.5490:

Cloth class with no evades/blocks/invuls in melee, better be packing something in that shroud form we dont know about. Hope it earns the title of shroud “knight” for a reason.

What does it being a cloth profession have to do with anything? Besides, Warrior does it and mostly just has invulnerability on short durations/long recharge. Also, it’s a Necromancer! It has blinds and dark fields too on top of having a 2nd HP bar.

Heavy armor gives about an extra 10-15% damage mitigation (depending on toughness), this is pretty basic knowledge.

Invul/evade/block protects against all people at any range, are instant and ignores infinite damage, and anything the opponents do (except some things that go through block).

Well of darkness, which I assume youre talking about, blinds 5 people tops in melee only assuming they arent immune and are not cleansed. Well of darkness has a cast time during which time necro can be stunned or interrupted. Its not nearly as suitable for melee as the other defense types.

Kilger: while i get what you’re saying, there have been plenty of times a fight between me and a necro has ended in my frustration in them wrecking my face suddenly and then healing back from the damage i just did to them, so its not like they are all that defenseless in a fight. The amount of damage they can both eat then heal while dishing out their own can be silly.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Kilger: while i get what you’re saying, there have been plenty of times a fight between me and a necro has ended in my frustration in them wrecking my face suddenly and then healing back from the damage i just did to them, so its not like they are all that defenseless in a fight. The amount of damage they can both eat then heal while dishing out their own can be silly.

I understand this, should clarify I’m talking wvw. The other defenses are balanced for 1v1 and scale very well to 1vX (infinte), where shroud melts like a ranger pet under heavy fire. So sending a necro to the front line is just suicidal.

All this is just talkin anyway, will have to see what the deal is when it happens. They havent even told us all the abilities yet.

Kilger.5490:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Kilger: while i get what you’re saying, there have been plenty of times a fight between me and a necro has ended in my frustration in them wrecking my face suddenly and then healing back from the damage i just did to them, so its not like they are all that defenseless in a fight. The amount of damage they can both eat then heal while dishing out their own can be silly.

I understand this, should clarify I’m talking wvw. The other defenses are balanced for 1v1 and scale very well to 1vX (infinte), where shroud melts like a ranger pet under heavy fire. So sending a necro to the front line is just suicidal.

All this is just talkin anyway, will have to see what the deal is when it happens. They havent even told us all the abilities yet.

It’s likely better they balance WvW than making profession specs for unbalanced odds that occur there. It’s one of those points (one being meta dungeon builds) that I don’t think should be the source of inspiration for future additions to professions.

Ralanost.8913:

DeT M.4319:

but guys if we look from one side.. isnt “reaper” as generic sounding as “Dragon hunter” : ) ?

They are almost in all games. Now I really dont get it… why there was such big WhoOoO about DH

I don’t consider reaper generic at all. Only game that I know about has reaper as a class name. Though mostly garbage f2p games, I’m sure there is at least a half dozen with dragon hunter classes. The problem is more with what dragonhunter symbolizes in Tyria. We are all hunter of elder dragons and their minions. Yet Guardians get a specialization that makes them extra special at fighting them? It just doesn’t make sense. Reaper for Necro? It makes all the sense in the world. How can you even compare the two?

Also we all are Warrior. : ) If we look by it definition.

Kilger.5490:

Leo G.4501:

Kilger.5490:

Cloth class with no evades/blocks/invuls in melee, better be packing something in that shroud form we dont know about. Hope it earns the title of shroud “knight” for a reason.

What does it being a cloth profession have to do with anything? Besides, Warrior does it and mostly just has invulnerability on short durations/long recharge. Also, it’s a Necromancer! It has blinds and dark fields too on top of having a 2nd HP bar.

Heavy armor gives about an extra 10-15% damage mitigation (depending on toughness), this is pretty basic knowledge.

Invul/evade/block protects against all people at any range, are instant and ignores infinite damage, and anything the opponents do (except some things that go through block).

Well of darkness, which I assume youre talking about, blinds 5 people tops in melee only assuming they arent immune and are not cleansed. Well of darkness has a cast time during which time necro can be stunned or interrupted. Its not nearly as suitable for melee as the other defense types.

Also 8000 more base health than a true cloth class, the elementalist, and a second health bar.

Navi.1032:

• ‘Rise’ Shout seems counter intuitive, summon a bunch of minions that will then go and single target mobs, probably requiring minion related traits to work effectively.

Think of them as a different sort of DoT. Unlike burning or bleeding, you can’t just cleanse this one to get rid of it, but you CAN destroy it by … well, destroying it.

And the fact that they attack single targets just makes them a bit unpredictable, which is both good and bad. However, if you kill off some of the targets, then the remaining minions should focus on whatever’s left. A DoT that can get nastier if your allies fall.

I see that Rise shout working in a similar fashion as the Mesmer’s clones or the GW1 Bone Minion Master . Sometimes you just want some cannon fodder to distract the enemy or to get between them and you. Overwhelm your enemy with a great number of targets that they first try to kill before you. I agree that they might be lacklustre in terms of damage but they might prove to be a good strategic tool.

Mordeus.1234:

I see that Rise shout working in a similar fashion as the Mesmer’s clones or the GW1 Bone Minion Master . Sometimes you just want some cannon fodder to distract the enemy or to get between them and you. Overwhelm your enemy with a great number of targets that they first try to kill before you. I agree that they might be lacklustre in terms of damage but they might prove to be a good strategic tool.

death novas and life siphons

all i thought of, after reading the name and watching the teaser, was the single haunting line of Malthael

“No one can stop death…”

re-hearing that line in my head as the video ended gave me chills.

So… what armor is this? It was in a reaper video in an interview…

(doesn’t look familiar to me)

Ok after the Vlog yesterday, i am not so worried, “long” appears to be manageable.

What is a concern thou i life force generation while dueling or in 1v1 situations. GS and Reaper Shroud, have a way too wide Life force generation spectrum and it is bound to suffer the same way altruistic healing does on guardian, where it is used nowhere except on Zerg v Zerg.

-GS Has literally NO consistent life force generation. The skills you do have to generate life force are on long CDs making them 1 or 2 offs in real fights and have massive variance in respect to the amount of life force they generate.

To offset this your only real option is to trait into chilling force and blighters boon, which again have the massive drawback of locking the spec into a specific build for pvp. Even when traited the variance is extreme.
Death spiral goes from:
-0% life force, if you miss or they doge or they dodge your chilling attack, which will happen often since dodging the last hit of the chain severely gimps the reaper skills.
-12% life force, if you hit your 6strickes during the 1s casting animation (again very unlikely 6 to 8 % is a more realistic number if you ask me.
-24% life force, if traited and you hit a single chilled target all 6 hits, again 12% to 16% is more realistic.
-36% life force, if untraited and you hit 3 targets with all your 6 attacks.
-72% if traited and you hit 3 chilled targets with all 6 attacks.

While this “sound” awesome, like i said before, most pvp fights boil down to duels, very rarely you get the chance to strike several enemies at ones with a melee strike, essentially never you can do that repeatedly and consistently.
In practice you will be generating 6 to 16% life force every 10 seconds, assuming you are not interrupted dodged and so on.

This is not a concern on pve, where monsters bunch up and stand there for you to hit on them.

Apolo.5942:

Ok after the Vlog yesterday, i am not so worried, “long” appears to be manageable.

What is a concern thou i life force generation while dueling or in 1v1 situations. GS and Reaper Shroud, have a way too wide Life force generation spectrum and it is bound to suffer the same way altruistic healing does on guardian, where it is used nowhere except on Zerg v Zerg.

-GS Has literally NO consistent life force generation. The skills you do have to generate life force are on long CDs making them 1 or 2 offs in real fights and have massive variance in respect to the amount of life force they generate.

To offset this your only real option is to trait into chilling force and blighters boon, which again have the massive drawback of locking the spec into a specific build for pvp. Even when traited the variance is extreme.
Death spiral goes from:
-0% life force, if you miss or they doge or they dodge your chilling attack, which will happen often since dodging the last hit of the chain severely gimps the reaper skills.
-12% life force, if you hit your 6strickes during the 1s casting animation (again very unlikely 6 to 8 % is a more realistic number if you ask me.
-24% life force, if traited and you hit a single chilled target all 6 hits, again 12% to 16% is more realistic.
-36% life force, if untraited and you hit 3 targets with all your 6 attacks.
-72% if traited and you hit 3 chilled targets with all 6 attacks.

While this “sound” awesome, like i said before, most pvp fights boil down to duels, very rarely you get the chance to strike several enemies at ones with a melee strike, essentially never you can do that repeatedly and consistently.
In practice you will be generating 6 to 16% life force every 10 seconds, assuming you are not interrupted dodged and so on.

This is not a concern on pve, where monsters bunch up and stand there for you to hit on them.

I think you’re overestimating what most other LF generating weapon skills do. Ghastly Claws is just 12% LF with a 8 second cooldown, only 2 seconds shorter than Death Spiral, while having to spend twice the cast/sustain time to generate. Feast of Corruption has a 10 second cooldown, same as Death Spiral, and can generate little to no life force, even on a hit, if the target condi cleanse before you connect. Locust Swarm requires you be in melee for the full 10 seconds on a 30 second cooldown for just 20% LF, something that is both not always feasible nor always recommended. Reaper’s Touch, as good as it is, only does about 15% LF gain on an 18 second cooldown, and OH Dagger has no LF generating skills all. That leaves MH Dagger AA, which you should never use two melee weapons in PvP (especially with Necro), and Staff AA, which I believe is what most people currently use for a steady, reliable LF generator when their not using Dagger/Focus or spreading Condis with Scepter/Dagger… So the Answer to GS’s actually somewhat ordinary for Necro weapons LF generation is to also run Staff.

…and there are more traits that generate LF than Chilling Force and Blighter’s Boon that are still going to be around after the specialization update, like Reaper’s Precision, Gluttony, Soul Marks and Spectral Mastery. In fact, a spectral skill like Spectral Armor for protection or Spectral Walk for the stunbreak, or even Spectral Grasp to pull unwary foes sound like possible must-haves for any reaper build that’s built around sustain/bunkering.

Yup I agree with Foefaller. I was able to see that there’s traits for when you want your Reaper to handle mobs and traits for when you’re expecting to be 1v1ing a lot.

Reaper seems pretty fleshed out but they did say they’ve been working on this one for a long while and I’m sure there’s still going to be iterations between now and when the expansion is released.

well if you payed attention at all necros will be able to get a trait where they will gain an aurora in the blood magic area, which in effect members of said party will also gain this aurora if spec’d and or traited properly to where they can also regen health off of attacks, of course from what I got out of the stream though and with do reasons this aurora does have a time cap.

UKADAM.3910:

You know every reaper in the game are gonna have twilight lol

I know of at least one that won’t…

IndigoSundown.5419:

UKADAM.3910:

You know every reaper in the game are gonna have twilight lol

I know of at least one that won’t…

Make this two.

Twilight isn’t a Sword fitting for a Reaper. There are other Skins tht fit the Spec much better like the Sunless Greatsword, Naegling, Greatsword of the Dragonsdeep, the Ascalonian Greatsword or Dhuumseal

Walhalla.5473:

IndigoSundown.5419:

UKADAM.3910:

You know every reaper in the game are gonna have twilight lol

I know of at least one that won’t…

Make this two.

Twilight isn’t a Sword fitting for a Reaper. There are other Skins tht fit the Spec much better like the Sunless Greatsword, Naegling, Greatsword of the Dragonsdeep, the Ascalonian Greatsword or Dhuumseal

Make it 3, and add Corrupted Avenger, Shadow Great Sword and Belindas Greatsword (for the obvious reference).

Walhalla.5473:

IndigoSundown.5419:

UKADAM.3910:

You know every reaper in the game are gonna have twilight lol

I know of at least one that won’t…

Make this two.

Twilight isn’t a Sword fitting for a Reaper. There are other Skins tht fit the Spec much better like the Sunless Greatsword, Naegling, Greatsword of the Dragonsdeep, the Ascalonian Greatsword or Dhuumseal

I’d say a single bladed Greatsword isn’t the most fitting for Dark Spiral (drills look cooler if they’re symmetrical). But they’re easily my preferred choice for Greatsword skins.
For anyone with 23 HoM points can get a personal favourite of mine, the Fellblade.
Someone playing a Chill reaper and crafting a look for it may want the Corrupted Avenger. (whoops, Shiki beat me to it)
The Nightmare Court look wouldn’t be complete without the Nightmare Greatsword.

There’s plenty of really cool looking greatswords and amazing character designs you could have. If I’m gonna equip a legendary, it’ll at least be a more serious and fitting one like kudzu, Frostfang or Quip, one I can build a reasonable character around.