Guild Wars 2

When I heard that Anet was inspired by Metroidvania games it got me really excited. I’ve found a blog from one of the designers for Metroid Prime and thought it could be an interesting read.

guide how to make Metroidvania-styled games:
http://subtractivedesign.blogspot.co.at/2013/01/guide-to-making-metroidvania-style.html

on planning level layouts:
http://subtractivedesign.blogspot.co.at/2013/01/guide-to-making-metroidvania-style_16.html

maybe this could be a good start to give players ideas what’s behind the design and to come up with new ideas for the GW2 devs… to make the game even better.

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

Tharomir.6985:

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

that’s what they’ve been hinting at. they’ve explicitly referenced zelda and metroid, and “coming to a stop because of a challenge you can’t complete, and later on returning with the tool you need, like a key to a lock”.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Tharomir.6985:

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

that’s what they’ve been hinting at. they’ve explicitly referenced zelda and metroid, and “coming to a stop because of a challenge you can’t complete, and later on returning with the tool you need, like a key to a lock”.

That sounds awesome! MMOs always feel like they come short when it comes to exploration and this might help make it better.

Who gave themselves the right to make up the stupid name? They’re discovery progression games, or just adventure games, and neither Metroid nor Castlevania were even close to being the first. And even so, what made the genre popular was Zelda, largely because it was the first with a save feature, allowing for exploration without the danger of losing all progression, what previously hindered the exploration of such games behind a poor endurance mode mechanic.

Conncept.7638:

Who gave themselves the right to make up the stupid name? They’re discovery progression games, or just adventure games, and neither Metroid nor Castlevania were even close to being the first. And even so, what made the genre popular was Zelda, largely because it was the first with a save feature, allowing for exploration without the danger of losing all progression, what previously hindered the exploration of such games behind a poor endurance mode mechanic.

Those games were so good that they defined the genre. Also, this is one of the silliest things to get upset over.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Tharomir.6985:

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

that’s what they’ve been hinting at. they’ve explicitly referenced zelda and metroid, and “coming to a stop because of a challenge you can’t complete, and later on returning with the tool you need, like a key to a lock”.

Yeah, that’s explicitly and clearly the intent. Seems like a reasoably streamlined version of the content too (notably instead of getting specific unlocks for specific content you’re getting general points for a region and direct which content you want access to next)

Still, intent isn’t execution, we need to see if they pull it off.

Conncept.7638:

Who gave themselves the right to make up the stupid name? They’re discovery progression games, or just adventure games, and neither Metroid nor Castlevania were even close to being the first. And even so, what made the genre popular was Zelda, largely because it was the first with a save feature, allowing for exploration without the danger of losing all progression, what previously hindered the exploration of such games behind a poor endurance mode mechanic.

It’s pretty much the accepted term for the concept in the industry ><

Tharomir.6985:

Those games were so good that they defined the genre. Also, this is one of the silliest things to get upset over.

Whose upset? I’m questioning a descriptor that is clearly unfitting for what it is describing. This is not Apple, we do not need to make up nonsensical names for the ‘hip’ rebranding and rerelease of the already established. And if anything is silly is your passive aggressive assumptions. And finally, that is entirely opinion, no more empirical evidence that the genre should be called after these two games than the opinion the genre should be named after Festers’ Quest. We call Shooters shooters and not Halogears for a reason, because it already has a name which is both as descriptive and sensible as it can be.

They already have a name, they’re non-linear or open world adventure games.

And to the above, no, it is neither an industry standard nor a well established term. There is not even any mention of the term in any text or media on game design before the mid 2000s, more than a decade of these games were released in various video game formats before this term was coined.

Everyone seems happy with, familiar with, and totally understanding the term, not sure the problem :p

I’m just going to be happy they weren’t inspired by NetHack or other roguelikes.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m just going to be happy they weren’t inspired by NetHack or other roguelikes.

But man, if they could make truly procedurally generated content work for a mMO ><

Words are created by popular usage, not by their proper usage at the time. Metroidvania may not fit some senses of style or even the proper connotations of those games, but its still a generally understood term.

Some people hate the word Blog. Doesn’t stop it being the most widely understood signifier for a “web log”.

Windsagio.1340:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m just going to be happy they weren’t inspired by NetHack or other roguelikes.

But man, if they could make truly procedurally generated content work for a mMO ><

I don’t think they can, really. The closest which happens is a Minecraft server open to X number of players. (I’ve seen up to triple digits, though no telling if it’s all at once.) Diablo 3 has its own small version of it, though Diablo 2 had a more focused procedural generation in how it created the first two act maps – rarely would it be exactly in the same arrangement.

Actually, recalling Lost Dungeons of Norrath, I’m sure they can write a way for it to happen. I’m just not sure if there’s a market for that level of RNG design in an MMO. If people complain about the grind now . . . oooh, imagine if it was a matter of RNG whether they see content at all?

Tharomir.6985:

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

Even if it did become like that, You’ll be able to play it only once!

Personally I’m all for making the Mastery system Character-bound instead of account-bound, and THEN design in a Metroidvania style.

Kite.2510:

Tharomir.6985:

If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.

Even if it did become like that, You’ll be able to play it only once!

Personally I’m all for making the Mastery system Character-bound instead of account-bound, and THEN design in a Metroidvania style.

well the idea is that it’ll be a neverending metroidvania, with new tools and stuff being added with time.

just keep in mind, people, that most of these will probably be quite simple. yeah, we got gliding, but most of them are probably more in the vein of “yeah now you can fight this monster that was virtually immune to you” or “hey you can open this door now”.

the unlocking method is also far more freeform than in metroidvania games.

well what I’ve learned from the blog I linked was that the maps (ideally) should be designed from the ground up with all the unlocks in mind. Adding new paths/secrets later on isn’t working that well. Maybe I got this wrong though. Of course, they could just add new maps with this in mind.

When thinking of Metroidvania games something comes to my mind:

• there are the big item upgrades (like super jump, screw attack, ice beam, etc.) which only exist a handful of
• there are the small upgrades (Missile pack, energy pack,…) with tons and tons of hidden locations for those.

What could be GW2s equivalent of those? Are mastery points the goodies that are “hidden” like all the upgrades in Metroidvania games? There is no vertical progression in GW2 so they can’t simply hide +100 health canisters or +1% damage packs.

I wouldn’t get too carried away with assuming this is going to be heavily like Metroid Prime or something. It’s probably just referring to the mechanic used in the Metroid games where you get suit upgrades that allow you to get through areas that were previously impossible (or at least extremely difficult – some of the Super Metroid runs get pretty crazy).

This mechanic will be used in places, but it’s too early to say exactly what it’ll look like, especially once it’s thrown into an MMO where players who have an upgrade are playing in the same space as players who don’t. If you’re expecting Metroid Prime Tyria you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

You may also not, but… just saying, we’ve been here before with the dynamic events hype before GW2 was released.

I’m guessing the concept might look a bit like this:

Imagine hang-gliding as the high-jump from metroid.

You are standing on a ledge in the Canopes, and you see another ledge a bit away from you, where you see other players fighting a mordrem boss. You want to take part in the battle, so you jump from your ledge and try to glide over there, but oh-oh: Your Gliding Mastery isn’t as advanced as it needs to be in order to glide that far. So now you know: Something is there, but you cannot enter, until later, when you practiced your hanggliding. So you walk around in the jungle, get better at gliding, until, boom: you are now strong enough to hold on to your glider long enough to get there.

Another Scenario could be with the mastery in which you learn the languages of the cultures in Maguuma:
There is a hefty battle in a small village in the jungle, and it is about to be overrun. But since you spent some time in the jungle, learning the languages of the villagers, you can enter the Chieftains hut, and are able to talk to him, or maybe read in a tome about a secret tunnel leading out of the village trough an old tree, into the underground layer of the jungle, and back to to surface in a safe distance. This opens different possibilieties when you fight in this certain village – remember, this is just a way I image parts of the new map… even more “how I would like the new map to work”. Let’s say it’s a Hylek Village. You enter the village, and spend some time there, talking, learning, discovering secrets, you learn to read their language via “Lore Mastery”. You gather information regarding an attack by the mordrem, so you try to get sieges ready, equip the villagers, bring the civilians to safety. Maybe you can fight the mordrem back, but maybe they are too strong, so you have to find another way, blowing them up as a last resort, or like I said, finding information about secrets that could safe the people. So now, that you know of said tunnel, you get another event: warn the villagers. Instead of further trying to fight the mordrem, you have to talk to as many villagers as possible before the time runs out and the chieftain closes the tunnel for good. You then failed the “attack event” and are in maybe half an hour (which is a lot in ingame time) able to get a group of fighters to take the village back.