Guild Wars 2

For now, I’m going with the popular theory that Ventari’s Tablet and the Dream are all that really protect Sylvari from Mordremoth’s influence. Clearly, that’s not all that is happening since pre-Mordy’s awakening we had that foreign sylvari clearly not acting under the influence of Mordremoth… at least not yet. So, exactly how Sylvari can be sort of “saved” from Mordy’s influence may not be totally clear, but for me it brings up the following question:

Are there ways that other dragon minions can be saved? I would imagine that, once corrupted, the answer is no. But what about pre-corruption? In the case of the Risen, Svanir, and Branded that obviously wouldn’t work since their minions seem to pretty much just originate in living (or dead) creatures which get turned corrupted. Obviously, we save them by not letting them get corrupted in the first place, right?

I suppose the real question I have for you all has to do with Destroyers (and maybe Bubbles’ minions, but that is purely speculation I’d imagine). Do Destroyers get made by some process not necessarily under immediate control of Primordus? Is there some “Destroyer Forge” that could theoretically be captured and turned good in the same way that Ventari’s Tablet seems to have turned the Pale Tree good? Is there anyway to free Destroyers and/or corrupted Sylvari and Mordrem from the influence of their respective dragons? Perhaps that would mean a way to undo corruption from other dragons? What do you guys think?

P.S. I’m sorry if this is the wrong forum, but since this was inspired in the expansion announcement I figured this was as good a place as any.

It wasn’t Ventari’s Tablet that “turned” the Pale Tree “good”. It was the environment , Ronan found the seed and brought back to his home, finding his family killed vowed to live in peace and started a colony. As the seed matured it became sentient and this was the only way it knew. The tablet is just a physical reminder of that way.

Take home a risen today! Nurture him, read him stories, saw up his lost limbs, and in no time you’ll have a good zombie for your own!

As for sylvari indeed this will be challenging, and more over it’s pretty clear that if mother tree starts saving her children, mordry will once again remind her the pecking ordrer. Ofc there’s always the “fried vegetables” solution.

Wilroc.5428:

Are there ways that other dragon minions can be saved? I would imagine that, once corrupted, the answer is no.

Both the case of Glint, and Arah path 3 say otherwise.
Now, there might be difference between beings corrupted into minions (Branded, Risen, Icebrood) and being created as minions (Destroyers, possibly at least some of the Mordrem). It is unknown where Sylvari lie in that distinction (but if the Trees are not just a preexisting race that Mordremoth captured and corrupted, but beings created to be his lieutenants, then all of us really need to take a pet Great Destroyer home to raise it with kindness).

Syione.3046:

It wasn’t Ventari’s Tablet that “turned” the Pale Tree “good”. It was the environment , Ronan found the seed and brought back to his home, finding his family killed vowed to live in peace and started a colony. As the seed matured it became sentient and this was the only way it knew. The tablet is just a physical reminder of that way.

To be clear, this is speculation. We haven’t been told in game our out (as far as I know) what turned the Pale Tree good.

Astralporing.1957:

Wilroc.5428:

Are there ways that other dragon minions can be saved? I would imagine that, once corrupted, the answer is no.

Both the case of Glint, and Arah path 3 say otherwise.
Now, there might be difference between beings corrupted into minions (Branded, Risen, Icebrood) and being created as minions (Destroyers, possibly at least some of the Mordrem). It is unknown where Sylvari lie in that distinction (but if the Trees are not just a preexisting race that Mordremoth captured and corrupted, but beings created to be his lieutenants, then all of us really need to take a pet Great Destroyer home to raise it with kindness).

Not exactly… Glint was never actually “corrupted” by Kralkatorrik. Like all the lieutenants, she was formed out of Kralkatorrik’s essence with a specific purpose (what that is or was, we don’t know, but we assume it is related to her prophetic abilities).

Through millenia of Kralky’s dormancy, Glint gained enough knowledge and experience to realize that she had a choice; and she could choose not to serve Kralky. This is similarly true of the Risen in Arah. Once the influence of Zhaitan was removed and The Source renewed; they became sentient enough to realize they didn’t have to obey anymore. I imagine this is the case with the Pale Tree as well. She knew and understood her purpose, but her environment and her upbringing taught her there was another, better way.

If anything, Glint and the Pale Tree were “corrupted” by goodness; by us. They prove that, though it may take countless influences and centuries of time, the Dragons’ influence can be overpowered and overwritten, even in their most powerful lieutenants.

Well, don’t remember wich path of Arah, but there is a ritual that could be made that gives the undead free will. they made it with the uddead Chicken and it was sussesfull.

I think it’s funny that the Sylvari being influenced by Mordremoth are being called “corrupted” anyway. Technically, the ones not under his influence are the corrupted ones, seeing as he originally created them for his own purposes, and the influence of Ronan and Ventari on the Pale Tree turned them into what they are. I’d love to see that angle played up in the story of the expansion. The whole “nature of good and evil”, and all that.

I think it’s for reasons like this that the story of the jungle dragon has the potential to be more interesting than the Zhaitan arc. We’ve been told from the beginning that the dragons are essentially forces of nature, but it’s easy to forget that when it comes to something as seemingly unnatural as undead. Flora, on the other hand… That’s something different. While it’s difficult to know what a creature like Mordremoth’s true agenda really is (or if he even has one, beyond “I want to cover the world in plants because it’s my nature” or something), it’s easy to see, from a certain perspective, why humans and the other races of Tyria might be viewed as the actual corruption. These aren’t just great big evil monsters – at least, not if the admittedly vague descriptions of them we’ve been given are accurate – they’re primal aspects of the world itself, and the sapient races are attempting to beat them into submission. Their struggle against the dragons is a struggle to tame the planet, and nothing wild ever wants to be tamed.

Mawdrey proves it’s nurture, not nature that matters here. If you raise a minion of Mordremoth with love and attention it will grow outside of his control.

To answer the OP, though. Zaitan, Jormag and Kralkatorrik all make their minions from what used to be living creatures. Jormag and Kralky corrupt them directly while Zaitan kills and then corrupts. Mordremoth and Primordus produce their minions from nothing. Mordremoth grows them and Primordus shapes them from the bare rock for his purposes. I think it is safe to bet that Bubbles is the same way with water.

As such, the first three can only be kept from Dragon influence by actually preventing them from being corrupted. The last three could possibly be interrupted during creation to be removed from Dragon control before they’re fully formed. This is proved true on two separate occasions with Mordremoth, so it could be the case with the other two.

CureForLiving.5360:

Syione.3046:

It wasn’t Ventari’s Tablet that “turned” the Pale Tree “good”. It was the environment , Ronan found the seed and brought back to his home, finding his family killed vowed to live in peace and started a colony. As the seed matured it became sentient and this was the only way it knew. The tablet is just a physical reminder of that way.

To be clear, this is speculation. We haven’t been told in game our out (as far as I know) what turned the Pale Tree good.

It is literally the only explanation that makes any sense. Otherwise there is no reson for them to have written the entire thing in to being in EOTN in the first place, no reason for sylvari to so heavily revere ventari’s teachings, etc.

It’s pretty clear that the tree valued ventari’s philosophy, and when grown passed it to her offspring. Like any parent/child relationship, some of those children adopted that value system, and some did not.

This indicates that succumbing to Mordremoth or not is a function of equal parts individual will and sylvari shared consciousness with their hivemind aspects. The tree itself decided to break away, much like glint did, is what allows less willful sylvari to remain free of corruption now that mordremoth is awake. More willful sylvari (like our player characters and anyone the plot deems important enough) have the ability to resist that influence on their own, but doing so is extremely difficult without the psychic bulwark of a shared mind and tree to call upon for support.

This is similar to addiction psychology. Sylvari are born predisposed to be Addicted to doing whatever Mord tells them to. Because Mord was not present, they didn’t realize this addiction trigger prematurely for the same reason alcoholics can’t develop a drinking problem when there is no alcohol around. They literally don’t know what they are missing. The dream itself is a support group, though it is unclear if this is a genetic quirk common to all sylvari, or if the Pale Tree is unique and specifically created the dream for this purpose. At any rate, that support group is vital to most sylvari’s ability to resist their genetic addition, but, like all addictions, certain exceptional invidivuals can handle that challenge through individual will, conditioning, or other techniques to remain clean of Mord’s influence without the support group.

The existence of the soundless indicates that while all sylvari come from trees, those trees may be far less involved and active parents than the one we know personally. If those trees know and accepted their purpose was to simply birth disposable minions, they would have no inclination or reason to create dreams of their own, as they expectation is mord directly controls those minions, and their role is to simply produce them.