Guild Wars 2

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but this has more to do with lord than anything else, so I will write there. It was very early in HoT that I realized how different Mordy is in his approach from other Elder Dragons, what with his industrial theme and him having a voice, but only now did I realize why it is so.

Simply enough: Mordremoth and his army is an allegory for populist far-right movements, religiously or ethnically motivated, particularily National Socialism and modern-day Salafi Islamism.

Weird, you ask? Well, allow me to explain further.

- Fascists and religious extremists alike have wide goals – not world domination perhaps but conquest and expansion are always on their minds – but target a specific group of people from whom they spawned, be it a nation, an ethnicity and its close relatives (as was the case with National Socialism, who sought the expansion of not only Germans but the entire Germanic world, including Scandinavia and the Nerherlands), or a religion (such as Sunni Islam). Likewise Mordremoth specifically targets and brainwashes a very specific group, the sylvari, whose nature it represents.
- Most important detail: Mordremoth claims to be the true origin and purpose of all sylvari. That IS what fascism is about. Mussolini claimed his fascist empire to be the continuation of Rome, the particularily infamous Adolf derived his Reich from both the German Empire and the Holy Roman Empire (Second and First Reich respectively), the modern day Islamic State claims to be the continuation of the original Caliphate and its extremist religion to be Islam in its pure, unadulterated form. Now, look at what the Mordrem Guard do. They CONSTANTLY ramble about how they are the true sylvari, how they are what they were originally meant to be – and how other sylvari kittenisted are traitors and hypocrites. That is basically what the National Socialists preached and what the IS preaches now.
- The effect they have on the targeted community. One of the themes of the expansion was how sylvari are prejudiced against. Now, remember what happened to the Germans in the USSR and the Japanese in the USA…
- The concentration camps. Need I say more?

Is anything of what I said sensible, or is it some meaningless rambling?

Now, keep in mind the liberal-progressive stance of AN on everything and this makes even more sense.

Mordremoth is a loser that resorted to a life of crime. But crime never pays. “Says you the thief” I hear you say! But we are reformed thief anti-heroes in this game who rejected a life of crime after our Destiny’s Edge representative took us under their wing to get us out of that life.

All the Elder Dragons are losers up to no good, they only fight purely for their own selfish ends and power for themselves is all they seek.

I think your.reading way way way to much into things here.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I think your.reading way way way to much into things here.

+1
I really doubt Anet’s writers were thinking of this.
OP reminds me of South Park’s “The Poop that Took a Pee”

I think you’re reading too much into it, indeed, especially as Mordy’s not the one setting up the camps (the Pact is — his camps are soldier-factories, not prisons as such) and the sylvari, in fact, were made to serve him. The Tree ‘varis are the brainwashed ones, it just happens that they’ve gone to a value system we prefer so we think it’s a good thing it happened.

Mordy’s an elder dragon bent on world domination. There might be a fascist feel to that, but Mordy isn’t an ideologue, he’s an actual powerful force that doesn’t care what you believe so long as you provide fodder for the clone pods.

what are you talking about? mordremoth isnt a metaphor hes an elder dragon

What in the actual…

Alright, this thread now outright beats anything I have previously read on the forum as ‘out of left field’.

I don’t think this is reading too much into it at this point, that’s just obsessive…

I believe you are correct about extremism — it is obvious. But realize that left-right is only a mental model, and a poor one at that (because it is only one dimensional, not even two dimensional). And your conclusions are not optimal. For example:
“National Socialism” is what it says — nationalist plus socialist. Nationalist is neither “right” nor “left” — but Socialist is left.

Fascism is defined specifically as making the economics of a nation as subordinate to the state. Unlike Communism, where the economic units are “owned” by the state, in Fascism the economic units are directed by the state — as in, this is what you shall produce, and these are the arrangements by which you shall sell to the state to stay in business — or bad things will happen to you, your family, and your associates.

So called “right wing” is blamed for selfishness an uncaring of others. And this is correct in the sense that “right wing” focuses heavily on individualism and ignores circumstances that negatively impact the individual – at the extreme it is Social Darwinism.

But accepting this definition of right wing — no way is Mordremoth right-wing. He wants “identical unit” slaves who will sacrifice themselves for the “collective”. Using the 2D definition, Mordremoth is a a totalitarian cult. All are servants of the state (which is embodied by him). All must sacrifice themselves for the state (Mordremoth). He is the Way, the Truth, and the Death.

Donari.5237:

The Tree ‘varis are the brainwashed ones, it just happens that they’ve gone to a value system we prefer so we think it’s a good thing it happened.

… Are you serious with that?

The Pale Tree is a loving parent. Mordremoth is a slave master. He enslaves bodies and minds. Mordremoth literally makes slaves of his minions.

The Pale Tree made children with morals and allowed them to oblige those teachings or go their own ways. You’re very confused about who’s doing what.

Imperios.2543:

Mordremoth is a metaphor for extremism

Nah. Mordremoth is a force of nature (literally), not an ideology.

Maybe, buuuuut:
-asura conzentration camps for early sylvaries
-asura hunting and imprisoning ‘lesser races’ to perform experiments in them: skritt in the asura startin areas come to mind.
-charr committing genocide in humans, including eating them and in the case of gwen i think there was stated that they defiled her some how, just a memory i can not find a source for this.
-humans answering genocide with actually skinning charr , sentient beeings, and wearing them as armour.
-Extremist organizations like the inquest, flame Legion and i think the human seperatists spring to mind as well
I think the elder dragons are more some kind of force of nature, i am not sure if they are actually able of sentient decision making. I allways got the impression that they were driven by something, not deciding to take actions.
That is why i have a hard time to see them as the great masterminds behind some extremist movement or Organisation.
Edit: because german autocorrect on phone is a kitten

I realized that there is no difference between sylvari and Norns. Both groups have individuals who turn against the Pact to side with the dragons.

The Norns even let them have a place in their home city. Yet no one is worried about the Norns turning. The only sylvari who turned were those just mindlessly following orders from the Pale Tree.

CETheLucid.3964:

Donari.5237:

The Tree ‘varis are the brainwashed ones, it just happens that they’ve gone to a value system we prefer so we think it’s a good thing it happened.

… Are you serious with that?

The Pale Tree is a loving parent. Mordremoth is a slave master. He enslaves bodies and minds. Mordremoth literally makes slaves of his minions.

The Pale Tree made children with morals and allowed them to oblige those teachings or go their own ways. You’re very confused about who’s doing what.

Imperios.2543:

Mordremoth is a metaphor for extremism

Nah. Mordremoth is a force of nature (literally), not an ideology.

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Or he was. We kinda killed him. We’re probably screwing up the natural order of things, but whatever, to Hell with these Elder Dragons!

They’re trying to kill us! Jerks.

Those loser dragons only want you to think of them as forces of nature but we should know better! Criminals always try justifying their behavior. Greater evils in real life had tried world domination and failed, some even said they had God’s approval and were issuing his will! At least the dragons don’t pretend they have God or “The Eternal Alchemy’s” approval.

This is why aliens don’t talk to us…

mordremoth was a corrupt religious feminist sjw

the the overlord pulling the strings is ianta karseitean

CETheLucid.3964:

Donari.5237:

The Tree ‘varis are the brainwashed ones, it just happens that they’ve gone to a value system we prefer so we think it’s a good thing it happened.

… Are you serious with that?

Not terribly. Just extrapolating from the OP’s premise. But if we set aside our cultural value systems to look at it objectively, the Pale Tree ’varis are the renegades going against their base design to try to slay their parent. Our values say the base design is wrong, evil, horrible, our values tell us to cheer the rebels on their way to independence and benevolence towards other living things, yet from the Mordrem point of view these rebels are the corruption, the mutant blight threatening their origin of species and drive to grow across the world.

I happen to share in the values of independence, free will, and being cooperative with others, so I’m more in the camp of those pleased the Mordrem rot diverged into the Pale Tree subset. Still, the OP talked about fascist brainwashing of subject peoples, which doesn’t really apply here. You don’t brainwash your hands into picking things up for you, and you’d be distressed if your left hand decided to head off on its own adventures or leap for your throat.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

what are you talking about? mordremoth isnt a metaphor hes an elder dragon

pertty muhc.

Agemnon.4608:

Those loser dragons only want you to think of them as forces of nature but we should know better! Criminals always try justifying their behavior. Greater evils in real life had tried world domination and failed, some even said they had God’s approval and were issuing his will! At least the dragons don’t pretend they have God or “The Eternal Alchemy’s” approval.

Nah, it’s canon. They’re somehow tied into the world of Tyria.

They awaken and feed on the magic of the world, destroy it in the process, and effectively hit a reset button on intelligent life and civilization.

Then they go dormant for several millennia in massive cycles. The Elder Dragons are largely indifferent to the world around them.

They generally don’t care if they kill everyone and destroy the world. They respect no one and have no sense of remorse or empathy for the creatures around them.

Our generation is the very first to actually succeed in not only resisting, but killing an Elder Dragon. It’s unprecedented. Possibly dangerous.

But you know even if the Elder Dragons are a natural process, most of us on Tyria kinda don’t want to die. So we’ll fight and resist.

We have some of the best and brightest minds our world has ever known. Maybe we can figure something out.

We have an egg from Glint, a dragon who was well on her way to becoming an Elder Dragon herself. A dragon that actually cared about us.

Maybe from her egg we can raise up an Elder Dragon through the generations that can ultimately control the worlds magic without destroying the world and killing us all.

That’d be pretty nice.

There is nothing in the game to suggest that any such parallels could be made. You are reading way, way, WAY too much into something that’s barely there.