Guild Wars 2

Played demo for 1 1/2 hr now and some events in Verdant Brink and it feels like The Expansion that ruined LoTRO for me, “Mines of Moria”. Didn’t even bother with last 30 mins of session 1.

I had that feeling already when they added agony and Fractals as that reminded me of same stupid system they added in instances with MoM/Mines of Moria. That they later had to remove and admit it wasn’t good but by then it was too late and they had lost so many players.

At least in GW2 not all instances/Dungeons have that mechanic and it’s not like the only end-game to chose from. In LoTRO it was what You had to do to stay competitive and no choices really.

Now with this looking like a maze to navigate and You need to follow ceratain paths to move around like a maze. You can be next to a Place but not get to it as it’s above or below You etc. Same as in MoM that made it a pain and boring to navigate to get anywhere and do anything.

Prefer open spaces and where You can zig zag, run across and not follow roads etc. many ways to get to a location not this.

Also main mechanics n this game as far as combat is have more and more turned into tons of red circles on the ground and then charges with knockdowns and You get swamped with mobs using those mechanics. Boring if You ask me.

This is purely my opinions and mostly meant for the devs. Not to discuss with other players that might flame me. I probably won’t even log in to read replies. Just stated my opinions for devs, said my piece and that’s it.

Unfortionetly only 2 options to communicate with devs are either forum or bug reports and these are not bugs, so all left was forums.

Most i know and play with don’t even use the forums as they know anything they say will get flamed by a certain crowd that are in majority on forum but only place they are in majority it seems and they will flame and do anything to silence people with any opinions that don’t agree with theirs. Been playing MMO’s since Beta in Ultima Online, so seen my fair share of that.

Same in all MMO’s and eventually they end up ruining MMO’s as Devs listen to that crowd and think they acctually represent a majority of the playerbase. Usually the ones screaming that “stuff is too easy” and “PvE is Fluff play and for n00bs” etc.

Kind of like those 10 people standing at the DJ both in club and tells the DJ what “everyone” likes (as they are self proclaimed experts) and if DJ is stupid and play what they request/demands it empties most of the rest of the club. As A DJ You need to be able to see past those and look at the whole crowd to keep the club packed.

There should be a way to ask players their opinions execept forums and for players to express their opinions straight to the devs without having to go through this. As I said most i know don’t even bother with forums. They log in play and if they stop liking the game stops logging in.

I have rarely used this forums either but a few times. last time i Think was when Agony and fractals were introduced and I ended up posting then taking an extended break from GW2.

I do Thank You for the Beta participation !!! Much appreciated.

I was looking forward to it but now all i feel is “meh” and have to rethink if keeping to invest my time into this game or not, as this is the future of GW2 and it doesn’t seem to be my personal “Cup Of Tea”.

My Son was looking over my shoulder as I played (he never got a beta key) and he said the same basically. He found it all confusing, a maze and chaos.

Once you start unlocking the mechanics of HoT, you would find there are many, many ways of moving around the map, and not just following the roads.

In other words, you gave up too fast.

Well the maze was labyrinthine but I chalk that up to me not being familiar with the map more than anything else. I will admit that getting from point A to point B can be difficult, and I do hope there will be a few more open areas. But it’s nothing that puts me off.

As Kreejaffa said, once you unlock some other ways of moving around the map, I can see how it will open up quite a bit, especially being able to quickly descend from high places with gliding.

Oh and I should add that it was at least very Visual and pretty to look at as something positive but that doesn’t help unless content as far as gameplay, mechanics and practical map navigation design goes are fun as well.

Also found a bug I submitted and the bridge leading out of the starting area in Verdant brink was invisible and broken and only had the edges on both sides of the casm, so I ran around not knowing were to go there either. However on my friends screens it was visible so they ran up on it. Floating in the air on my screen and I tried and could walk over although on my screen Walking on air.

I agree that the map is awkward to navigate. I had the same problem as you, finding myself near places on the map but they were actually way above me, in a place I could not figure out how to reach for a while. More than the confusing navigation, which I could get used to after a while, I am not a fan of the focus on massive group event chains and seemingly nothing else. Perhaps it’s just for the sake of this beta test but I much prefer the wide open maps with vistas and hearts.

The movement thing I can understand and relate to, but I’m assuming that once you start unlocking the masteries for the glider and mushroom things that it’ll be a bit easier to navigate the map.

Personally, I found it difficult to test the events as stuff was kinda hard to kill with the gear they gave us, and I found that a couple of the events weren’t working for me. Not sure if they were broken or just not fully implemented. In particular there’s an event with the salvage pit where you’re supposed to go down in the pit and gather salvage and then bring it somewhere. I tried a few times to collect the salvage and come back up with it, but nothing happened. I couldn’t find an NPC to turn it in to.
Also, some of the events I found to be a little unclear as to what the objectives were. Maybe that’s just me though. :P

Other than that, I thought Revenant was pretty cool for the most part. Not having any kind of speed boost was a bit annoying, and the only condi clear I could find was on the heal under the Dwarf legend. That was a bit annoying because there are so many conditions being thrown at you on that map, and unless you’re running around with a party it can be a bit bothersome.

Well, glad I got to participate in the beta. I hope my post offers a bit of insight regardless.

Necari.5091:

In particular there’s an event with the salvage pit where you’re supposed to go down in the pit and gather salvage and then bring it somewhere. I tried a few times to collect the salvage and come back up with it, but nothing happened. I couldn’t find an NPC to turn it in to.

If I am thinking of the same thing as you, I believe you are supposed to just pick up as much salvage as you can (not taking it anywhere) before you die. As opposed to an actual event, they call it an Adventure I think and it is supposed to be like a high-score challenge mini-game.

Traveling won’t be so bad once you unlock waypoints, shrooms, and gliding.

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing. Personally I felt like this new map was born from next generation map building, we have enough straight foreward easy to navigate maps, its time for something completely different and challenging, and it looks like HoT is going to give us that.

Had that same experience with that pit. Picked up a box and if pick up Another it seemed You lose the first I Think. Only held 1 in Your hand. Then ran through portal/door up again and they said not bad and if i wanted to try again. Never went beyond 1/10 collected.

As Zepthite suggest it might be like have to collect many and even if it seems You drop Your first it still Counts and try get to 10 Before Death. Still just found it annoying and boring like most events i tried there. In fact many wasnt even avaliable as others had done them before I could join. Tried Escort Soldier but either i got swamped with mobs and died or soldier died.

I’m not a fan of all these charging, knocking down and/or red circle mechanics all over the ground that seems to be the thing of all mobs since the whole living story moved towards Mordremoth. I only find it annoying and not fun mechanics to fight. Very little variation as well.

In any case I came back to post screenshots of that bugged bridge that without friend sbeing on I could nwever have known to walk out on as it was just air over a casm on my screen. Happily the bridge was there on their screen or we would never have known.

Invisible Bridge:

LOL… Half of the OP was complaining about movement in the new map and the other half was complaining about forums and people on the forums. Awesome.

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing. Personally I felt like this new map was born from next generation map building, we have enough straight foreward easy to navigate maps, its time for something completely different and challenging, and it looks like HoT is going to give us that.

Wasn´t that the exact type of response op predicted? I mean telling him to play Queensdale from someone probably saying stuff are too ez mode and want what they consider “harder” content. Very smug and predictable.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

LOL… Half of the OP was complaining about movement in the new map and the other half was complaining about forums and people on the forums. Awesome.

Glad you proably prove him right then about forum attitude.

Did you read the complaining about forum people part of his post? I didn’t prove him right on anything

As op already have said my impression was pretty much the same. Nothing to do with hard or ez content. Just very unpractical and boring. Making thigs take longer to navigate doesn’t make it harder, just more tideous. Especially after doing it over and over again. Running up the same stairs a 100 times. Running around that cliff on a small path fighting trash mobs all the way a 100 times.

As some have mentioned getting gliders and mushroom jumping might make it less tideous? We´ll have to see. The events didn´t exacty seem fun either. No events I look forward to repeating on this map over and over every day.

Phille.7684:

As op already have said my impression was pretty much the same. Nothing to do with hard or ez content. Just very unpractical and boring. Making thigs take longer to navigate doesn’t make it harder, just more tideous. Especially after doing it over and over again. Running up the same stairs a 100 times. Running around that cliff on a small path fighting trash mobs all the way a 100 times.

As some have mentioned getting gliders and mushroom jumping might make it less tideous? We´ll have to see. The events didn´t exacty seem fun either. No events I look forward to repeating on this map over and over every day.

Agreed. Just because something takes a long time to do, does not mean it is difficult. The only “difficult” thing about the map was trying to complete some of the events when there weren’t enough people around.

Phille.7684:

As op already have said my impression was pretty much the same. Nothing to do with hard or ez content. Just very unpractical and boring. Making thigs take longer to navigate doesn’t make it harder, just more tideous. Especially after doing it over and over again. Running up the same stairs a 100 times. Running around that cliff on a small path fighting trash mobs all the way a 100 times.

As some have mentioned getting gliders and mushroom jumping might make it less tideous? We´ll have to see. The events didn´t exacty seem fun either. No events I look forward to repeating on this map over and over every day.

I see the new zone more in line with Silverwastes, where everything is connected into a coherent story and overarching theme.

If you compare it to Orr, it wasn’t as coherent. Although the theme was still against Zhaitan and the Risen, they weren’t really connected to each other. They were more isolated.

I’m not sure how i feel about this though. I like the meta-events such as in silverwastes, but i also liked how events worked in Orr too. It made the zones feel more diverse in it’s events, and made the zone feel larger.

Phille.7684:

As op already have said my impression was pretty much the same. Nothing to do with hard or ez content. Just very unpractical and boring. Making thigs take longer to navigate doesn’t make it harder, just more tideous. Especially after doing it over and over again. Running up the same stairs a 100 times. Running around that cliff on a small path fighting trash mobs all the way a 100 times.

As some have mentioned getting gliders and mushroom jumping might make it less tideous? We´ll have to see. The events didn´t exacty seem fun either. No events I look forward to repeating on this map over and over every day.

Getting just the glider alone made the map much easier to traverse, and getting the mushrooms will presumably compound that a ton (I couldn’t access a ton of the “jump spots” that would make it much faster/more convenient to use).

Similarly, pretty much no one even understood how to do anything. How many “major bosses” did you get to face? As I got to face two, yet many people didn’t even seem to know that there was stuff going on in the map. Your enjoyment may not be guaranteed, but the more complex system is far more appealing to me. Especially seeing as a massive chunk of it is explicitly there to prevent zerging for most of the stuffs as an effective way to get map content done.

Of course, I see those as amazing things that will be hated in this game. Anything that doesn’t allow for mindless activity seems to be hated on pretty hard. Hopefully it can pull through, I guess.

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing.

This doesn’t speak to his concerns because he is looking for new, future content he wants to do, not recycle old content.

This does not bode well for me. IMO, new content should look appealing and pull people in initially, not make it difficult to progress.

Please remember that I said initially…there’s nothing wrong with having things accelerate as you get farther along in the new content. But I didn’t get involved in silverwastes and drytop for awhile when i first hit 80, mostly because the initial presentation was irritating and clumsy, and gated you.

If the glider and such are prerequisites to moving around…I suppose that as long as they have a straightforward way to lead into them it will be OK. I hope that they don’t gate all this progression through scripted group events….it will make doing things solo tough if you are simply on at the wrong time, or are new to the areas and get lost behind the larger crowd.

nexxe.7081:

If you compare it to Orr, it wasn’t as coherent. Although the theme was still against Zhaitan and the Risen, they weren’t really connected to each other. They were more isolated.

I’m not sure how i feel about this though. I like the meta-events such as in silverwastes, but i also liked how events worked in Orr too. It made the zones feel more diverse in it’s events, and made the zone feel larger.

I agree. It’s not that I want the game to be like Orr, or like silverwastes. I want to have the CHOICE.

Honestly, If i was forced to play in silverwastes as the elder game, I probably wouldn’t be playing now. I enjoy it from time to time, but the bulk of my time is elsewhere, and I spend far more time in Orr then I do in silverwastes. if they provided OPTIONS, then you would get far more people involved. as it is, I’m worried that they are going far too narrow in their choice of future gameplay. While Im sure it would appeal to a small minority of players, that formula has proven to be a failure when it comes to the MMO community at large.

Elder scrolls online is the perfect example. they decided that after you hit level cap, you were going to be shoehorned into a hardcore, group oriented (i.e. you couldn’t solo most of it at all) end game with almost no other options. 6 months later they were scrambling to change the game enough to keep the mass exodus of players from continuing. a few months after that the elder game had done an almost complete flip flop from it’s original design…and they’re still trying to pick up the pieces.

It’s not the “challenge” that concerns me…its the decision to use such narrow progression approaches. I could be wrong…there could be still 80% of the expansion content hidden from us, that involves everything else like crafting, exploring, solo play, small group play, random wanderings, etc. but from what I’ve seen so far, my gut feeling isn’t a good one…

Lord Funk.1694:

My Son was looking over my shoulder as I played (he never got a beta key) and he said the same basically. He found it all confusing, a maze and chaos.

I think that’s the whole point. So, working as intended?

Plus, as others have noted, spending time there will open up more options, through masteries, and you’ll be able to get around more easily.

It is supposed to be restricting and confusing at first – that is literally the entire point. You will not be able to circumvent all of that in 1.5 hours.

It’s thematically right too – dank, confusing, underground like vibe.

If you don’t like it, well that’s a personal opinion I guess – and perfectly fine. We all like, what we all like, yeah? But maybe give it more than 90 minutes.

Kreejaffa.3682:

Once you start unlocking the mechanics of HoT, you would find there are many, many ways of moving around the map, and not just following the roads.

In other words, you gave up too fast.

If content is so boring that players like the OP give up before unlocking it, it’s not the players’ fault for giving too early; it’s the developer’s fault for not making the process enjoyable.

Honestly, this sounds like it goes completely against ArenaNet’s “the game is about having fun, not preparing to have fun”. If the expansion is only tolerable when you have unlocked half the masteries, the journey there is just a tedious, badly designed shore.

My two cents;

the scenery was beautiful. The pathways were very confusing.
I want a true expansion like FACTIONS. A new land to explore and discover. Lots of PVE. You can call it Cantha and reuse the map. After 3 years I think we deserve it instead of a small land that will be run over and over and over.

Buccaneers Fan
X Zero Cool X

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing.

This doesn’t speak to his concerns because he is looking for new, future content he wants to do, not recycle old content.

If he doesn’t like the new maps maybe he should look for a new game then, because the game is moving in a different direction than the easy mode maps we have played for years. I am happy with the direction it is going and I think the majority of veteran players will feel the same way.

Vavume.8065:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing.

This doesn’t speak to his concerns because he is looking for new, future content he wants to do, not recycle old content.

If he doesn’t like the new maps maybe he should look for a new game then, because the game is moving in a different direction than the easy mode maps we have played for years. I am happy with the direction it is going and I think the majority of veteran players will feel the same way.

Why do people always want others to leave the game? I’m sure Anet doesn’t think like that. They actually want people to enjoy their creations, and all the hard work they put into them.

If they didn’t get feedback from people that aren’t satisfied, they wouldn’t know how to change their game for the better. Telling them to simply stop playing is counter-productive for the game.

Nice zone so far, but hope there is even more harder content in other zones. Diabolical even. I’m glad anet seems to be moving away from what has been making this game die at a steady rate.

Vavume.8065:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing.

This doesn’t speak to his concerns because he is looking for new, future content he wants to do, not recycle old content.

If he doesn’t like the new maps maybe he should look for a new game then, because the game is moving in a different direction than the easy mode maps we have played for years. I am happy with the direction it is going and I think the majority of veteran players will feel the same way.

How is this not an easy mode map still? Even playing an entirely new class I found no difficulty in any of the content. It was honestly more of a challenge to try and jump over certain obstacles to get mastery points than kill any enemies. Your comment just seems hateful honestly, and I myself got bored of the content too. Not because the content was challenging, but just because it didn’t seem like there was much to do. In my opinion, these outposts really need A LOT more action going on around them, they seemed pretty dead. An not just zerg content, but also something that would challenge individual players as well.

Vavume.8065:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vavume.8065:

@ Lord Funk, Queensdale is always available if complex maps are not your thing.

This doesn’t speak to his concerns because he is looking for new, future content he wants to do, not recycle old content.

If he doesn’t like the new maps maybe he should look for a new game then, because the game is moving in a different direction than the easy mode maps we have played for years. I am happy with the direction it is going and I think the majority of veteran players will feel the same way.

I for one, have played since GW1’s beta and do not feel the same as you. I like big open spaces, with big mountains and big sprawling caves. It has nothing to do with the level of difficulty.

However, in this map, there was little to none of that. It felt like a string of (beautiful) corridors leading to rooms. I hope that other maps are more to my liking, but as is, I’m not content. All said and done, I have faith in Anet. And to get us into perspective, this is just a portion of one map.

My personal thoughts on the Beta.

1. The whole playable area, super detailed and very good to look at, that being said some areas also seemed very “cluttered” especially at night when the mordrems were attaking.

2. The event chains and such were fun, new baddies cool to look at and kill, also very detailed.

3. Wish there was more time to play than the 2 hour blocks, first block I played was basically just exploring the areas, which was fun, 2 block was running events and such.

4. All in all love the details put into it, gameplay was fun, revenant was fun, no real complaints other than time, a longer testing or whatever would have been cool.

It reminded me of a cross between Silverwastes and Dry Tops, although I like Silverwastes I don’t really like Dry tops that much.

Yeah, didn’t really think that much of the maze or the scenery, scenery is just chaotic.

Also a pity about the mobs, not that interesting after killing mobs in Silverwastes for more than 100 hours.

Found the storyline part of the Beta easy to complete, easier than some of the older storylines. Was using a thief with 2 pistols.

Wide open maps do not necessarily equal easy mode. Adding levels does not mean a map is particularly challenging. Also, not liking a particular map does not mean a player is looking for a free ride, either.

Something else to consider is that we only had access to a portion of a single map. There are going to be more maps and hopefully more and different mechanics available. While the portion we played in seems confusing and repetitive, I am looking forward to more stuff being available when the expansion ships, or if we get more betas.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

LOL… Half of the OP was complaining about movement in the new map and the other half was complaining about forums and people on the forums. Awesome.

But what else is he / she suppose to do? Accept that other people have different opinions then him / her? Of course not, pre-ad hominems for all!

Hours later and I thought I should add this as well as it’s part of HoT. I have never expressed this either as I don’t use forums much.

I did really enjoy the new sPvP Stronghold Map/Arena (coming with hot) we got to try a while back. In fact the most fun sPvP map I have played to date.

Really enjoyed how there were different tactics. Not just hold middle with an engi but (alot because of the Trebuchet acctually being very useful). Also that it wasn’ät such a hassle to repair it like it is in Battle of Khylo. You could level the plainfield and Control middle in various way’s not so much about a blob of duelling in middle. Felt like tactics and acctual thinking had more impact on Stronghold compared to current sPvP Maps. Very Positive in my book !!!

Only complaint I would have on that would be that it’s part of same rotation with all current Conquest maps/areanas, so You could end up not playing it alot. It deserves it’s won rotation as it’s a totally different type. Different roations for different styles. Conquest for those that enjoy that. One roatation for Conquest maps. Another rotation for maps like Courtyard for them that likes duelling in a blob in middle and no tactics as far as the map goes and one rotation for new maps like Strongholds. I assume more will be added in the future.

I even have friends in Guild and outside Guild that said they will finally try sPvP after watching the new map being played in various YouTube videos. Also Heard people say that Stroinghold is the only type of sPvP they want to play as soon as it’s added with HoT.

I’m not a hater by far as You might see and I’m not fanboi either. Not of GW2 or any particular play-style. I play some WvW, sPvP as well as Dungeons, Open World PvE and World Bosses etc. All Crafts to 500 that can be and the rest 400.

I’m not a self proclaimed 1337 player but Im definetly not a n00b either and as mentioned played MMo’s since Beta in Ultima Online. I prefer to play dungeons with a team of 5 the regular way (as i find that more fun than speed runs) but just last night we 2 manned CM because we felt like it.

I like variation and go with my mood and what I feel is fun for the day. After all i play to have fun in my leisure time. Not to be bored, kittened off or feel like I do a chore. I would assume that goes for most. Maybe I’m wong ??? The Lords forbid we have fun in an MMO right, he he he !!!

What each of us then consider to be fun of course varies.

I personally do however get bored if forced to play one particular style all the time.

In fact why I have played GW2 since headstart is because it has that variation and that the only end-game and über gear is NOT only avalaible from grinding one particular play-style (in most mmo’s it’s grinding dungeons as only end game to get the good gear). I really like that GW2 has not gone down that path even if looked like it for a while when Fractals first came out. Back then only way to get ascended trinkets was Fractals.

I enjoy Dry Top. I enjoy Silverwaste. Not as much as Dry Top even if Silverwaste is much more profitable as far as loot and chest goes.

So I do in fact like GW2 for all that. It has never felt too gated. I can move freely and I could even enter both Dry Top and Silver Waste with a low LvL character. I would die there but the Beauty is the freedom and that I can if I want to and I have tried it.

I Think that was part of not enjoying the new map Verdant brink and the new direction. It felt gated somehow and theme parked. You have to go this way and You need to get masteries to go past that and fly there etc. Not gated in a strict sense but still didn’t feel as free to move around as GW2 usually do. Just adding NPC’s that swarm You with knockdowns and red circles with conditiosn doesnt make it more fun or even challenging/harder. Just more annoying. Especially after a few times.

I usually have balanced view on things. try to see it from many angles as i myself enjoy various things.

Those that read my post as me being a hater and purely negative to everything in GW2 misinterpret me.

However I still can’t help but feel left with a “meh” with Verdant Brink and the new direction if that is representative of the entire direction GW2 PvE adn "open World content will take as a whole. That after having been so positive trying out the Stronghold map.

I do follow and have followed closely through YouTube videos by WoodenPotatoes, Mikei TheMighty, Matt Visual, MMO Inks, Allusive Table, Let’s Play and Point of Interests etc, as well as articles. I also really enjoy videos like Eexa as i find them brilliantly done. I do try to keep myself up to date on what’s going on with GW2 even outside my own game play. It’s just Forums I rarely use.

CureForLiving.5360:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

LOL… Half of the OP was complaining about movement in the new map and the other half was complaining about forums and people on the forums. Awesome.

But what else is he / she suppose to do? Accept that other people have different opinions then him / her? Of course not, pre-ad hominems for all!

Hmm hey well, when someone starts a thread “My Personal Impression Of Beta” and then spends half the great wall of text gibberish blaming forum posters for not letting anet make it kitten (the little fluffy animal thingy) easy enough for him… well fair game I say :P heh

It seems to be that the travel difficulties etc are by design. You get thrown in the deep end, not adapted to your environment. As you level your masteries you become better able to move around until you master the Jungle.

I would be wary of judging a whole expac by a 2 hour beta, but if you already made up your mind, there’s always the game you paid for.

Unfortunately I share the negative sentiments over the new map and it’s navigation. I think aNet made the same mistake with traveling on the map as they did with the traits last year and we can see how that affected the game, new characters are created seldom and those people that do create them never bother with trait unlocking either through doing the specific events or buying them and thus lowering the character base in the game. Unlocking on this level is wrong for basic content, such is map navigation and here we have multiple unlocking needs. I can’t see it succeeding with the players.