My major issue with "hard content"

My major issue with "hard content"

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Posted by: Sylent.3165

Sylent.3165

Am I fan of raids? Actually yes. I did them a lot in Wow and did them in ff14.

The main reason I came back to gw2 full time now as my only game is because as an adult the game is beyond perfect for an hour at a time play which is the most I can do.

Seeing from any mmo in the past, and how this one is structured I see it taking well over an hour at a time for casual players to complete these raids. I fear it’s going to involve way to many people trying to be hardcore, talking down to players, kicking players who are trying to get this done.

This just isn’t what gw2 was made for I thought…..

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Posted by: Kormeg.2469

Kormeg.2469

In the 1st year of gw2, as I recall it, it took around an hour to do some regular dungeons.

I don’t see why you need for all content to be homogenized, why can’t some things take longer than others? Why can’t there be some content for people that have more time than you do? Maybe raiding is not something you can do very often compared to others, does that mean it has to be relegated to being short – just like almost every other form of content in game?

I mean they are already shortening fractals to just the one instance per run. Everything doesnt have to be the same and appeal to everyone. because that’s impossible.

Embrace variety

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

I don’t see why Anet can’t add raids. Don’t like raids? Don’t do them. There is plenty of casual content in this game. In fact, the majority of it is casual content. Doesn’t hurt to add something new to the mix. I work too, god knows whether I’ll have time for these raids. But they should still exist for those who do like them.

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Posted by: BIGHARSHNESS.3510

BIGHARSHNESS.3510

Yes, variety. I like longer content. It’s why I don’t like dungeons, because most like to skip through it all to get to the end… and the way it’s designed, it allows you to do that. I can’t blame them because people have done these paths so many times already. Here is to hoping Raids are designed to make you enage each step without skips.

If it’s any consolation, Fractals are going to be a lot more friendly to those who don’t have a lot of time to play.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

My issue is that this isn’t hard content the way I wanted it. This is throwing barriers to participation with organization and time investment.

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Posted by: Seisus.6591

Seisus.6591

Seeing from any mmo in the past, and how this one is structured I see it taking well over an hour at a time for casual players to complete these raids. I fear it’s going to involve way to many people trying to be hardcore, talking down to players, kicking players who are trying to get this done.

Here’s the good thing about raids in gw2: The rewards will not be better than rewards from playing other content. They may be shinier, but they will not give your character the advantage gained from raiding in other mmos.

While it does bum me out that some people will probably not be able to experience this content due to time constraints, my experience with raiding in other games tells me this will probably not last forever. As more people learn the fight mechanics clear times on the raids will drop making raids more accessible if you can find the group.

Lastly, and this is pure speculation, anet could implement a lockout system similar to other mmos. Since there won’t be a direct enhancement to your character from raiding, this lockout could exist until the player decided to reset it. This would allow a player to gather a few friends and take a swing at some bosses without having to worry about the instance resetting when they zone out.

All in all, I trust anet to make raids something enjoyable and accessible to as many people they can while still keeping them difficult.

(edited by Seisus.6591)

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Posted by: Chairman Wang.5930

Chairman Wang.5930

Seeing from any mmo in the past, and how this one is structured I see it taking well over an hour at a time for casual players to complete these raids. I fear it’s going to involve way to many people trying to be hardcore, talking down to players, kicking players who are trying to get this done.

Here’s the good thing about raids in gw2: The rewards will not be better than rewards from playing other content. They may be shinier, but they will not give your character the advantage gained from raiding in other mmos.

While it does bum me out that some people will probably not be able to experience this content due to time constraints, my experience with raiding in other games tells me this will probably not last forever. As more people learn the fight mechanics clear times on the raids will drop making raids more accessible if you can find the group.

Lastly, and this is pure speculation, anet could implement a lockout system similar to other mmos. Since there won’t be a direct enhancement to your character from raiding, this lockout could exist until the player decided to reset it. This would allow a player to gather a few friends and take a swing at some bosses without having to worry about the instance resetting when they zone out.

All in all, I trust anet to make raids something enjoyable and accessible to as many people they can while still keeping them difficult.

I use to think Urgoz took a long time… Power creep fixed that so it might happen in GW2. The HP sinks are real though.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Here’s the good thing about raids in gw2: The rewards will not be better than rewards from playing other content.

So far we’ve seen no evidence of that. They will be a source of Legendary Armor, which is better than the other stuff (whether you agree or not is irrelevant), and they’ve offered no alternative path for earning them (although Gaile hinted that their might be one).

I agree with the OP, there is plenty of reason for concern that the game is headed in a dark direction, and if the developers do not wish us to remain concerned then they have some ’splaining to do.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Substatic.6958

Substatic.6958

In the presentation he said raids will not have a new loot tier.

In other words, the F-Key Warrior who farms chests with his eyes closed and crafts ascended will have the same level of stuff as the evil elitist Raider.

There is no reason to complain.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I don’t see why Anet can’t add raids. Don’t like raids? Don’t do them. There is plenty of casual content in this game. In fact, the majority of it is casual content. Doesn’t hurt to add something new to the mix. I work too, god knows whether I’ll have time for these raids. But they should still exist for those who do like them.

I agree… unless there’s some unique content/rewards locked out behind it. And from what we heard, there is.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

In the presentation he said raids will not have a new loot tier.

It will though, it’ll have Legendary armor precursors, he said that. It won’t have a stat tier above Ascended, but it doesn’t need to, that’s not the point.

There is no reason to complain.

Not your call.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: uhohhotdog.3598

uhohhotdog.3598

I may be one of those that just don’t have the time to do them but I don’t have any issue with them being added. It’s not like I’ll be falling behind in any way. Legendary is cool to have but its not a necessity and I hope they keep it that way.

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Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

In the presentation he said raids will not have a new loot tier.

It will though, it’ll have Legendary armor precursors, he said that. It won’t have a stat tier above Ascended, but it doesn’t need to, that’s not the point.

There is no reason to complain.

Not your call.

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

It will though, it’ll have Legendary armor precursors, he said that. It won’t have a stat tier above Ascended, but it doesn’t need to, that’s not the point.

But it is not a new tier. Stat-wise it is identical to Ascended, which is fully available outside of raids. Heck, legendary is already an existing tier for that matter.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

(edited by lordkrall.7241)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

In the presentation he said raids will not have a new loot tier.

It will though, it’ll have Legendary armor precursors, he said that. It won’t have a stat tier above Ascended, but it doesn’t need to, that’s not the point.

There is no reason to complain.

Not your call.

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

Well we were told that raids will be required for making legendary armor – whether the precursors are limited solely to them (be it entirely or as part of the step to obtaining them in that scavenger hunt is unclear) or as a similar method to the original dungeon gifts hasn’t been detailed.

But it was stated that raids = required for legendary armor.

But I don’t see why this is a big deal. After all, dungeons were originally (and IMO, should still be) required to make the original legendary weapons (sadly, now you can do the pvp reward tracks 3 times to get enough tokens for the gifts).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

You mean, “can we assume that they won’t be available on the TP from people who have made them?” No, it’s possible that they will be TP-able. That is better than nothing, but NOT a solution, as all this does is make the TP even more destructive than it already is, and further enrich raiders at the expense of everyone else. Making Legendaries and selling them should not become the new job for raid-inclined players. Whatever method they come out with should be fair to both raiders AND non-raiders, not “great for raiders, not an absolute catastrophe for everyone else”.

As for whether they’ll be exclusive to raids, they haven’t said, but given how closely they tied the two concepts, yes, I think it is safe to assume that they are tied directly to raiding, until such time as they say otherwise. I welcome their input on that topic, but “wait, we’ll talk about it later” is not sufficient.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

Are you scared of having an Extreme Titan-like Raid in GW2 TC?

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

But it is not a new tier. Stat-wise it is identical to Ascended, which is fully available outside of raids. Heck, legendary is already an existing tier for that matter.

It is not a new tier stat-wise, but it is a new tier game-wise, and yes, Legendary is an existing tier, but not for armors, yet. whether or not it’s a new tier statwise is largely irrelevant, stats are not a huge deal in this game.

But I don’t see why this is a big deal. After all, dungeons were originally (and IMO, should still be) required to make the original legendary weapons (sadly, now you can do the pvp reward tracks 3 times to get enough tokens for the gifts).

That really depends on two factors though, 1. How difficult it is to complete a raid once, and 2. How many times we have to complete it to get a full set of ascended armor.

When I buckled down to get my Legendary, I needed to run Twilight arbor about 8-9 times. Each time was relatively simple to get through. If the new raids are as simple as Twilight Arbor, and I only need to do about 8-9 runs of it, then I can grit my teeth and make it happen.

If, on the other hand, the dungeon is considerably more complicated, taking longer to complete, being more likely to fail entirely, and if I’d have to run it more than even ten times in order to earn a complete set of ascended armor, then yeah, I want some alternatives.

Now don’t get me wrong, I fully expect that it will be harder and will require more completions, and I don’t want to cheapen the raid by forcing it into the rule above, I just want some alternative to doing it that way, as running the raid more often than that is not likely something I’ll have any interest in doing.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: inch.3769

inch.3769

Am I fan of raids? Actually yes. I did them a lot in Wow and did them in ff14.

The main reason I came back to gw2 full time now as my only game is because as an adult the game is beyond perfect for an hour at a time play which is the most I can do.

Seeing from any mmo in the past, and how this one is structured I see it taking well over an hour at a time for casual players to complete these raids. I fear it’s going to involve way to many people trying to be hardcore, talking down to players, kicking players who are trying to get this done.

This just isn’t what gw2 was made for I thought…..

Although I’m a massive fan of GW2, I can’t see myself being amazing at the raids However, I don’t think they will take much more than an hour to complete. From my experience, GW2s content, however hard core, is accessible to casual players. Take the fractals, the most they’ve ever taken for me is about an hour and a half. PVP can also be practised by Casual players. Raids will be harder, making it so you need more experience to do them well, but I doubt they will take much longer than an hour to actually do. Also, if you don’t like the raids, you can just enjoy the events and general open world PVE, not to mention the new WvW borderlands Theres a lot of new content coming, and you don’t by any means HAVE to do the raids I myself am going to spend my first few weeks when HoT comes out doing the Story and Exploring the maps

[tc]

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Posted by: Arietta The Broken.1875

Arietta The Broken.1875

So because you don’t have time, those that don’t are punished with short content that isn’t as demanding because it has to fit within the window of time you can play?

Content being this short, has to either be incredibly easy but take some time, or monstrously hard and be very short.

I’m sorry that you don’t have the time to play, but some people do. This game should cater to everyone, not just you.


Forget for a moment that Fractals is being changed in the new patch. Some Fractals can take pug groups at least an hour, even on the lower difficulties I know some people that really struggle with them and it does take a long time.

Arah – I was in a relatively inexperienced party only a few months ago, they were inside for nearly an hour before I joined, and then we spent at least another hour inside.

I remember the first time I went to Arah this time 3 years ago.. (Maybe even 3 years ago today.) We did P4 (which was bugged) and we spent nearly 4 hours in there. We killed everything.. and we couldn’t complete it due to it being bugged.


I’m sorry that you don’t have the time to play for long periods. I myself have to afk regularly during my play time because of RL reasons, I have to excuse my self from teams on nearly a daily basis. But does that stop me wanting content that’s going to consume a larger chunk of time in a day? Certainly not.

I remember in GW 1 when Hard Mode first came out, I spent 8 hours in Fissure of Woe in a 5 man team and we cleared everything. It was the most fun I’d ever had in a game. (That 8 hours included a lot of people going afk for lunch/dinner etc) but regardless it was fun.

While it is true we’re going to see a lot of people raging over being kicked or whatever.. I think this might be the time Anet needs to think about introducing a Raid Leader that has sole control over who is in the party and who isn’t.

You’re dumb. You’ll die, and you’ll leave a dumb corpse.

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Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

That really depends on two factors though, 1. How difficult it is to complete a raid once, and 2. How many times we have to complete it to get a full set of ascended armor.

When I buckled down to get my Legendary, I needed to run Twilight arbor about 8-9 times. Each time was relatively simple to get through. If the new raids are as simple as Twilight Arbor, and I only need to do about 8-9 runs of it, then I can grit my teeth and make it happen.

If, on the other hand, the dungeon is considerably more complicated, taking longer to complete, being more likely to fail entirely, and if I’d have to run it more than even ten times in order to earn a complete set of ascended armor, then yeah, I want some alternatives.

Now don’t get me wrong, I fully expect that it will be harder and will require more completions, and I don’t want to cheapen the raid by forcing it into the rule above, I just want some alternative to doing it that way, as running the raid more often than that is not likely something I’ll have any interest in doing.

Don’t worry, raids won’t take 5 minutes to complete and won’t be finished by an average player on his first play-through.

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Posted by: Todd.6573

Todd.6573

How can people see the new raids theme as a negative thing, we have been screaming for more challenging content, maybe not the people that play an hour a day, but the rest of us, thats invested thousands of hours on single characters.

So once they announced raids, it was all: “I cant get this because i cant do that” style of thinking – Then dont get it. You dont NEED it. Just stick with your ascended armor, enjoy the base fractal skins, enjoy the base fractal backpack.

For those of us that enjoy a challenge – We should be awarded for completing harder content, as such, unique skins and LOOKS is a perfectly acceptable reward.

Again, if you “cant” (lets face it, at some point you can but youd rather not), then dont, there is litterally no gear treadmill.

Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind.
- Theodore Roosevelt

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Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

How can people see the new raids theme as a negative thing, we have been screaming for more challenging content, maybe not the people that play an hour a day, but the rest of us, thats invested thousands of hours on single characters.

So once they announced raids, it was all: “I cant get this because i cant do that” style of thinking – Then dont get it. You dont NEED it. Just stick with your ascended armor, enjoy the base fractal skins, enjoy the base fractal backpack.

For those of us that enjoy a challenge – We should be awarded for completing harder content, as such, unique skins and LOOKS is a perfectly acceptable reward.

Again, if you “cant” (lets face it, at some point you can but youd rather not), then dont, there is litterally no gear treadmill.

Certain people simply cannot comprehend that this game is all about looks. You gain recognition with new skins, not new tier of gear.

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Posted by: SkylightMoon.1980

SkylightMoon.1980

Casual players lol. Ok OP let me explain this to you. The raiding content being put in game in HoT is in response to the community specifically asking for very challenging content, in some cases, specifically asking for raids.

This is content designed to require you to press more than 1 in your full zerker set. It is designed to challenge you mechanically and strategically. People who are casual wouldn’t really fit the criteria for completing the content, because thats not what being casual is about. Its not about putting in tons of hours and effort to complete a certain piece of content. Its about having a lay back experience.

So no, people who play the game casually probably won’t be able to complete the content. Yet that doesn’t mean that not everyone can complete this content. Anyone can, it just requires you to put effort into it.

So think of it as not catering to people who are put into groups like “hardcore” or “casual” but instead people who are willing to put in big effort to complete a certain fight as opposed to people who arn’t. Simple as that.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

This just isn’t what gw2 was made for I thought…..

Tell me what kind of content is made for gw2?

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

I don’t see why Anet can’t add raids. Don’t like raids? Don’t do them. There is plenty of casual content in this game. In fact, the majority of it is casual content. Doesn’t hurt to add something new to the mix. I work too, god knows whether I’ll have time for these raids. But they should still exist for those who do like them.

I agree… unless there’s some unique content/rewards locked out behind it. And from what we heard, there is.

Well, a lot of people disagree and want raiding to have unique loot. Though I suppose we have to wait to see exactly all the things raiders can get. Maybe there will be some kind of token system and raiders just get rewards faster, but that non raiders can still earn the rewards in other ways. Legendaries, however, should be LEGENDARY. They should require you to be a master at all the game modes. It needs to give the name legendary some meaning.

Though do we really want to be arguing this again? lol. This thread might end up getting locked like the two other ones.

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Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

You mean, “can we assume that they won’t be available on the TP from people who have made them?” No, it’s possible that they will be TP-able. That is better than nothing, but NOT a solution, as all this does is make the TP even more destructive than it already is, and further enrich raiders at the expense of everyone else. Making Legendaries and selling them should not become the new job for raid-inclined players. Whatever method they come out with should be fair to both raiders AND non-raiders, not “great for raiders, not an absolute catastrophe for everyone else”.

As for whether they’ll be exclusive to raids, they haven’t said, but given how closely they tied the two concepts, yes, I think it is safe to assume that they are tied directly to raiding, until such time as they say otherwise. I welcome their input on that topic, but “wait, we’ll talk about it later” is not sufficient.

The whole point of Legendaries is to be prohibitively time consuming to acquire. If whatever you can get primarily from the raids is capable of being traded, there is no need for a solution because there is no problem.

Nothing is done at the expense of the player, because Legendaries are completely unnecessary.

If someone can’t afford the time barrier of entry of raiding(they only have an hour to play as opposed to the time needed to do a raid), they can use the coins they get from the lower time they can play to get it.

(edited by Ticky.5831)

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Posted by: Serromus Jakta.3987

Serromus Jakta.3987

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

You mean, “can we assume that they won’t be available on the TP from people who have made them?” No, it’s possible that they will be TP-able. That is better than nothing, but NOT a solution, as all this does is make the TP even more destructive than it already is, and further enrich raiders at the expense of everyone else. Making Legendaries and selling them should not become the new job for raid-inclined players. Whatever method they come out with should be fair to both raiders AND non-raiders, not “great for raiders, not an absolute catastrophe for everyone else”.

As for whether they’ll be exclusive to raids, they haven’t said, but given how closely they tied the two concepts, yes, I think it is safe to assume that they are tied directly to raiding, until such time as they say otherwise. I welcome their input on that topic, but “wait, we’ll talk about it later” is not sufficient.

Here he goes again, same guy who made another one of these “raid complaining posts”. i can see this thread being locked soon. Just wait until they give out more info, how can you judge something that isn’t out yet? just wait until the expansion then you can do a proper judgment of the content, this is the reason Gaile closed the other post last night, because of threads like these.

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

Is there any reason to assume that the legendary precursors will be BoP and that they are exclusively available though raids?

You mean, “can we assume that they won’t be available on the TP from people who have made them?” No, it’s possible that they will be TP-able. That is better than nothing, but NOT a solution, as all this does is make the TP even more destructive than it already is, and further enrich raiders at the expense of everyone else. Making Legendaries and selling them should not become the new job for raid-inclined players. Whatever method they come out with should be fair to both raiders AND non-raiders, not “great for raiders, not an absolute catastrophe for everyone else”.

As for whether they’ll be exclusive to raids, they haven’t said, but given how closely they tied the two concepts, yes, I think it is safe to assume that they are tied directly to raiding, until such time as they say otherwise. I welcome their input on that topic, but “wait, we’ll talk about it later” is not sufficient.

Here he goes again, same guy who made another one of these “raid complaining posts”. i can see this thread being locked soon. Just wait until they give out more info, how can you judge something that isn’t out yet? just wait until the expansion then you can do a proper judgment of the content, this is the reason Gaile closed the other post last night, because of threads like these.

Other TWO threads. Both of them got locked. And he’s basically ignoring what Gaile said last night by saying it’s not sufficient to talk about this stuff later when there is more information. So now this thread will be hijacked by the reward topic even though that’s not really what it is about. Oh well…

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

Casual players lol. Ok OP let me explain this to you. The raiding content being put in game in HoT is in response to the community specifically asking for very challenging content, in some cases, specifically asking for raids.

This is content designed to require you to press more than 1 in your full zerker set. It is designed to challenge you mechanically and strategically. People who are casual wouldn’t really fit the criteria for completing the content, because thats not what being casual is about. Its not about putting in tons of hours and effort to complete a certain piece of content. Its about having a lay back experience.

So no, people who play the game casually probably won’t be able to complete the content. Yet that doesn’t mean that not everyone can complete this content. Anyone can, it just requires you to put effort into it.

So think of it as not catering to people who are put into groups like “hardcore” or “casual” but instead people who are willing to put in big effort to complete a certain fight as opposed to people who arn’t. Simple as that.

And to repeat, raids, almost certainly, are what we’re getting in the place of actual hard content..

It’s a shortcut to limiting completion along with a feature they can advertise for the expansion.

They’re only harder because it’s exponentially harder for most people to get everyone going in the same direction.

Oh they’ll probably be more scripted too, so it takes a few more sessions to learn the patterns.

What they likely won’t have is substantially harder execution requirements for individual members.

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

I am sad that were aren’t getting some kind of elite zone too. Something that would be best to tackle in a group, but that a solo player could still enter and try their hand at some of the content. Raids and that would have been perfect.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

What they likely won’t have is substantially harder execution requirements for individual members.

Yeah. I’m sure that the main difficulty (well, “difficulty”) will come not from requiring actual better skills, but from the need to have a bigger group.

So because you don’t have time, those that don’t are punished with short content that isn’t as demanding because it has to fit within the window of time you can play?

Again, if there’s an exclusive content/reward tied to it, then absolutely it is a reasonable request to make.

Content being this short, has to either be incredibly easy but take some time, or monstrously hard and be very short.

Or not have exclusive rewards.

I’m sorry that you don’t have the time to play, but some people do. This game should cater to everyone, not just you.

Agree – so the exclusivity that caters to you but not me should not exist.

Casual players lol. Ok OP let me explain this to you. The raiding content being put in game in HoT is in response to the community specifically asking for very challenging content, in some cases, specifically asking for raids.

Not the community. Just a small (albeit very vocal) part of it.

This is content designed to require you to press more than 1 in your full zerker set. It is designed to challenge you mechanically and strategically. People who are casual wouldn’t really fit the criteria for completing the content, because thats not what being casual is about. Its not about putting in tons of hours and effort to complete a certain piece of content. Its about having a lay back experience.

Cool. There’s nothing in what you said that requires exclusive rewards, however.

So think of it as not catering to people who are put into groups like “hardcore” or “casual” but instead people who are willing to put in big effort to complete a certain fight as opposed to people who arn’t. Simple as that.

No matter how you think of it it doesn’t change what it really is – and it is a content that exists to divide the community into hardcore elites and the remaining unworthy masses.

Other TWO threads. Both of them got locked. And he’s basically ignoring what Gaile said last night by saying it’s not sufficient to talk about this stuff later when there is more information.

Well, we already know that in GW2 this is the correct approach, because fixing things after they are already implemented takes months or even years.
And if the assumption is not true, all Anet has to do is to clarify it.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: RakumiAzuri.1569

RakumiAzuri.1569

The main reason I came back to gw2 full time now as my only game is because as an adult the game is beyond perfect for an hour at a time play which is the most I can do.

This reads like the most passive insult.

Anyway on topic I work a lot right now and I set a side time on Sundays to play. Granted 9/10 times I can only login to do missions then log off. You just have to find when you have time and make it work.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Navi.9308

Navi.9308

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Navi.9308

Navi.9308

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

They are just skins. Just because they’re called ‘legendary’ and require more effort to acquire than ascended gear doesn’t mean that they’re anything more than just glorified skins.

There is literally no differentiation between legendary and ascended gear other than visuals.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

So because you don’t have time, those that don’t are punished with short content that isn’t as demanding because it has to fit within the window of time you can play?

Content being this short, has to either be incredibly easy but take some time, or monstrously hard and be very short.

I’m sorry that you don’t have the time to play, but some people do. This game should cater to everyone, not just you.

First, assuming it’s impossible to make one content that can please everyone, short content is more fair than long content, because you can always stack multiple short content blocks together to form one longer one, while you can’t break up a longer content block.

Second, nobody is saying that they can’t have longer content in the game, just that not everyone should be funneled into it. If people love longer content blocks, then great, have those and let them do it, but provide alternatives so that players who don’t enjoy longer content blocks can avoid that content entirely, without missing out on rewards.

Don’t worry, raids won’t take 5 minutes to complete and won’t be finished by an average player on his first play-through.

Yeah, probably not, which is why we need valid alternatives.

How can people see the new raids theme as a negative thing, we have been screaming for more challenging content, maybe not the people that play an hour a day, but the rest of us, thats invested thousands of hours on single characters.

No, I’ve also invested thousands of hours into my characters, and I have been screaming against adding raids. Please please please do not overestimate how many GW2 players actually want raids, just because those players screaming for them have been very, very loud about it (and in many cases on places like Reddit, don’t even play GW2 themselves anymore).

For those of us that enjoy a challenge – We should be awarded for completing harder content, as such, unique skins and LOOKS is a perfectly acceptable reward.

Nope.

If you enjoy challenging content, your reward is that you just got to play the type of content that you enjoy. It does not in any way make you more deserving of reward than someone who completed less challenging content. You are both playing the same game.

The raiding content being put in game in HoT is in response to the community specifically asking for very challenging content, in some cases, specifically asking for raids.

Some of the community, yes, not all, and likely not most. Just because some players are getting what they want does not mean that the remainder cannot push to protect what they want as well.

The whole point of Legendaries is to be prohibitively time consuming to acquire. If whatever you can get primarily from the raids is capable of being traded, there is no need for a solution because there is no problem.

Nothing is done at the expense of the player, because Legendaries are completely unnecessary.

If someone can’t afford the time barrier of entry of raiding(they only have an hour to play as opposed to the time needed to do a raid), they can use the coins they get from the lower time they can play to get it.

If it is possible to buy legendaries, then it should be from NPCs, not the TP. Legendaries should not be used to enrich people on the trading post, especially if the only other way to earn them is locked behind raiding.

Other TWO threads. Both of them got locked. And he’s basically ignoring what Gaile said last night by saying it’s not sufficient to talk about this stuff later when there is more information. So now this thread will be hijacked by the reward topic even though that’s not really what it is about. Oh well…

This is the conversation. If they believe we dobn’t have enough information to have this conversation yet, then the solution is not locking threads, it is giving us more information. I’m not starting another thread on this topic myself, but this topic WILL keep coming up so long as the fear remains that players will be shoehorned into raiding or miss out on significant content and rewards.

If they want us to stop being scared, they need to give us reason to not be scared. Locking threads solves nothing.

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

No. There is no such thing as “just skins.” Skins are pretty much the top tier reward in this game, there is no situation in which “you shouldn’t care that you can’t get that, it’s just a skin” is a valid response. If I want that skin then I have every right to care about not being able to get it.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

They are just skins. Just because they’re called ‘legendary’ and require more effort to acquire than ascended gear doesn’t mean that they’re anything more than just glorified skins.

There is literally no differentiation between legendary and ascended gear other than visuals.

And the stat swapping and the purple pretty.

If that’s the case, whats your answer then? Would you be okay with it if you just got unique armor skins from raiding?

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

Nope.

If you enjoy challenging content, your reward is that you just got to play the type of content that you enjoy. It does not in any way make you more deserving of reward than someone who completed less challenging content. You are both playing the same game.

You sound pretty much radical to me. The next step would be allowing every single achievement and skin to be buy-able since you do not deserve them any more then someone who is a shovel knight 24/7.

Some of the community, yes, not all, and likely not most. Just because some players are getting what they want does not mean that the remainder cannot push to protect what they want as well.

https://youtu.be/gxLkfXwxLTs?t=18m23s

I’d say it is you and other vocal minority who is against new challenges. The reaction of audience at PAX South is pretty clear for me and Anet.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Navi.9308

Navi.9308

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

They are just skins. Just because they’re called ‘legendary’ and require more effort to acquire than ascended gear doesn’t mean that they’re anything more than just glorified skins.

There is literally no differentiation between legendary and ascended gear other than visuals.

And the stat swapping and the purple pretty.

If that’s the case, whats your answer then? Would you be okay with it if you just got unique armor skins from raiding?

I’m for unique rewards from raiding. I’m also for unique world rewards, dungeon rewards, crafting rewards, SPvP rewards, and WPvP rewards because I don’t think every single item should be available through every type of content.
It increases the longevity of the game and pushes players to experience and take part in content they normally wouldn’t.

Also, you can stat swap ascended gear can’t you? It’s just more difficult?

At the end of the day it impacts me little because I think nearly every single legendary skin is hideous. I just get annoyed with the “I want X reward but don’t want to do Y content, why can’t I get it from Z easier content or why can’t Y content be catered to my level of skill” thought process, it’s very self serving and elitist.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: ReiCH.6273

ReiCH.6273

For those of us that enjoy a challenge – We should be awarded for completing harder content, as such, unique skins and LOOKS is a perfectly acceptable reward.

Since the ultimate challenge is to overcome another human controlled oponent, in a consistent manner, how is it that you get unique skins and LOOKS but the folks at the top tier of pvp, get a lousy backpack. You get 6 slots, they get one. You better than them?

In most games, Casuals are the majority. In GW2, Casuals are the game. Azumi.9572

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

You sound pretty much radical to me. The next step would be allowing every single achievement and skin to be buy-able since you do not deserve them any more then someone who is a shovel knight 24/7.

Nope, that is a straw man argument. There is no “next step,” it’s just the one step.

I’d say it is you and other vocal minority who is against new challenges.

Nope. Again, you post an audience at a major gaming convention, the definition of “vocal.” PAX attendees are far more likely than the average GW2 player to be “serious” gamers, since they are going out of their way to attend a gaming convention, and far more likely to be “casual” about GW2, since it was a general gaming convention. Their reaction to things is in no way indicative of the reaction of the overall game community.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

Nope, that is a straw man argument. There is no “next step,” it’s just the one step.

Oh, the straw man card. If there’s no next step, why stopping there? Because you ask for it? Sounds very selfish. I’m certain there are shovel knights who would love to farm, let’s say, legendary armour, via shovelling. Who are you to limit their fun?

Nope. Again, you post an audience at a major gaming convention, the definition of “vocal.” PAX attendees are far more likely than the average GW2 player to be “serious” gamers, since they are going out of their way to attend a gaming convention, and far more likely to be “casual” about GW2, since it was a general gaming convention. Their reaction to things is in no way indicative of the reaction of the overall game community.

> cosplayers
> serious gamers

Pick one.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

I’d actually like to see legendary armor have the same skins as starting armor. Then, put in a second skin not tied to legendary that can be gained normally in raids, and maybe in other (difficult) ways in other parts of the game.

But I know that’s not going to happen.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Slapinator.4196

Slapinator.4196

Guys let’s try not to lead this thread in different direction than what the OP said about, organized groups possibly kicking casual players. The conversation we are currently doing has already been done TWICE led nowhere and the thread was locked.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

They are just skins. Just because they’re called ‘legendary’ and require more effort to acquire than ascended gear doesn’t mean that they’re anything more than just glorified skins.

There is literally no differentiation between legendary and ascended gear other than visuals.

And the stat swapping and the purple pretty.

If that’s the case, whats your answer then? Would you be okay with it if you just got unique armor skins from raiding?

I’m for unique rewards from raiding. I’m also for unique world rewards, dungeon rewards, crafting rewards, SPvP rewards, and WPvP rewards because I don’t think every single item should be available through every type of content.
It increases the longevity of the game and pushes players to experience and take part in content they normally wouldn’t.

Also, you can stat swap ascended gear can’t you? It’s just more difficult?

At the end of the day it impacts me little because I think nearly every single legendary skin is hideous. I just get annoyed with the “I want X reward but don’t want to do Y content, why can’t I get it from Z easier content or why can’t Y content be catered to my level of skill” thought process, it’s very self serving and elitist.

If by ‘destroy the item at a mystic forge and get, for a notable cost an equivalent item with different stats’ then yes.

Also, I hate being this guy, but you’re dodging the question.

A skin is also a unique reward. Would raids offering skins instead of unique legendaries be enough?

~~~~

I’m harping on this for a reason. There’s be no conflict (or almost no conflict) if it were just skins. Anet knows this. They also want more people trying for legendaries and people who normally wouldn’t normally do a raid to try them.

Which I’m fine with, let people have unique rewards for wahtever. My dog in this is I kind of want people to admit it’s about the exclusive rewards not the joy of playing hard content.

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Substatic.6958

Substatic.6958

I don’t get the issue. You can get full ascended from crafting + F-Key zerg spam likely much faster and easier than the Raid set, and it has the same stats.

What more do you want? Delete raids because you don’t like them? How about remove spvp and fractals too?

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: ReiCH.6273

ReiCH.6273

Guys let’s try not to lead this thread in different direction than what the OP said about, organized groups possibly kicking casual players. The conversation we are currently doing has already been done TWICE led nowhere and the thread was locked.

Well, that’s easy. This most certainly will happen if the raids get access to the lfg tool. Just as it already happens when you get into a fractal with the “wrong” class.

We should be discussing other more interesting questions like…

how are they going to pull off the soft trinity of control – support – dps

how are they going to balance the classes so that we don’t end up with class stigma like we did with dungeons

how are they going to accomodate the pvp and wvw communities who get 1 or 0 legendary items when the raiding community gets 6

how good can it be for the games economy to have players with armour that switches stat sets and thus no need to craft new stuff

In most games, Casuals are the majority. In GW2, Casuals are the game. Azumi.9572

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Oh, the straw man card. If there’s no next step, why stopping there? Because you ask for it?

Yes, because any step forward becomes irrational if it requires you to make another step. There will always be a cliff or a wall to run into. Rationality is about taking the steps forward that are rational, and then stopping when the next step would be irrational. I proposed a rational position, you proposed “well then what about if we keep going until it becomes irrational,” to which my response is “let’s not.”

I’m harping on this for a reason. There’s be no conflict (or almost no conflict) if it were just skins.

No, this conflict is entirely about skins.

A better question than “what if it were just skins” would be “what if it were just about the ability to stat-swap, but without any unique skins attached.”

I would be much more willing to pass on armor that had stat-swapping than I would on armor with unique skins.

I don’t get the issue. You can get full ascended from crafting and F-Key gaming and with far less effort than this Raid set, and it has the same stats.

What more do you want ANET to do? Delete raids because you don’t like them? How about remove spvp and fractals too?

Nobody’s talking about them removing the raids, just about making them unnecessary for those who have no interest in running them. So long as there are genuine methods of earning all the same rewards outside of raids, I don’t much care what goes on within them.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

My major issue with "hard content"

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Navi.9308

Navi.9308

I really don’t understand these complaints.

If you want gear of equal strength to raid gear you can already get it. This is not an issue.

If you want specific vanity gear then play the content for it.

If you don’t have the time to do the long, difficult content, then do the content that you have time to do. You’re still working towards gear of the same power level.

Some posters seem to have an intense level of entitlement, wanting vanity items handed to them on a silver platter.

I’ll ask the question I keep asking:

Would people who don’t want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins, and would the people who do want to raid be okay with it if it were just skins?

They are just skins. Just because they’re called ‘legendary’ and require more effort to acquire than ascended gear doesn’t mean that they’re anything more than just glorified skins.

There is literally no differentiation between legendary and ascended gear other than visuals.

And the stat swapping and the purple pretty.

If that’s the case, whats your answer then? Would you be okay with it if you just got unique armor skins from raiding?

I’m for unique rewards from raiding. I’m also for unique world rewards, dungeon rewards, crafting rewards, SPvP rewards, and WPvP rewards because I don’t think every single item should be available through every type of content.
It increases the longevity of the game and pushes players to experience and take part in content they normally wouldn’t.

Also, you can stat swap ascended gear can’t you? It’s just more difficult?

At the end of the day it impacts me little because I think nearly every single legendary skin is hideous. I just get annoyed with the “I want X reward but don’t want to do Y content, why can’t I get it from Z easier content or why can’t Y content be catered to my level of skill” thought process, it’s very self serving and elitist.

If by ‘destroy the item at a mystic forge and get, for a notable cost an equivalent item with different stats’ then yes.

Also, I hate being this guy, but you’re dodging the question.

A skin is also a unique reward. Would raids offering skins instead of unique legendaries be enough?

~~~~

I’m harping on this for a reason. There’s be no conflict (or almost no conflict) if it were just skins. Anet knows this. They also want more people trying for legendaries and people who normally wouldn’t normally do a raid to try them.

Which I’m fine with, let people have unique rewards for wahtever. My dog in this is I kind of want people to admit it’s about the exclusive rewards not the joy of playing hard content.

You say there would be no conflict if they were just skins but what is it that sets them apart from skins?

I’m just trying to determine what the actual difference between legendary and ascended gear is other than the text colour and the stigma.

I’m sure ANet is completely aware of the stigma associated with legendary gear and are using that as a driving factor to get players into raids but at the end of the day there is no stat difference which makes it a lot easier to justify such rewards.

As for your final point, you seem like a smart and reasonable person so I’m sure you’re aware that there are always many people in different camps.
There are those that will raid for the rewards, there are those that will raid for the challenge, and there are those that will raid for a multitude of other reasons (completionism, boredom, playing with friends, perceived prestige, etc.).