Guild Wars 2

My main issue with guild wars 2 has been and continues to be one that is hard to define. It is one that guild wars 1 had down so perfectly that it saddens me to see gw2 not have this at all; the guild system (and I know a lot love/hate certain popular aspects of guilds to talk about like guild halls, guild missions, gvg, etc, but I wish to talk about a different one). When I played guild wars 1, the guilds I was in had structure that actually meant something. It MEANT something to be a part of a guild in an alliance (in alliance competition/rivalries/betrayals to go to other alliances made things interesting). It MEANT something to be in the best alliance possible. It actually MEANT something to be an officer/guild leader/co leader in gw1. There was a highly political aspect of guilds in gw1 (whether you were faction farmers in Cantha, or gvg guilds, or title hunters, etc). There was constantly a dog fight to be the best guild in your respective field. This was THE MAIN reason I kept returning to gw1 over WoW or other mmos. And I know people will say “if you liked gw1 then go play that… kitten kitten kitten …” but that’s a joke of an argument. It’s all about enhancing THIS game (you know, the one that isn’t running graphics from the early 2000’s and in which you can actually JUMP for crying out loud). It’s all about making THIS game as appealing to different types of gamers as possible in order to make it more of a success for Anet.

Let’s examine Gw2 in this respect:

Gw1 had alliances. Gw2 has worlds (essentially the replacement) and it is so pathetically incomparable it is just sad. What they SHOULD have done was give certain worlds tangible and visible rewards for defeating their opponents (particularly massive statues with sculpted images/descriptions of specific accomplishments that world has accomplished; ex: 1st world to conquer Teq gets a massive sculpture of that dragon somewhere in the world for all to see and be proud of) and not just these insanely boring +% for certain things like karma/gold. WHO CARES about getting more karma and gold when I have nothing to be PROUD of? You know what I love about Lion’s Arch now? I LOVE the fact that I can visit that and see the destruction and KNOW that I was a part of that great battle. That’s what made gw1 amazing in certain ways (especially with faction farming guilds able to take cities for all to see).

Next one: There is NO politics involved in this game like we had in gw1. I miss the backstabbing, the spying, the alliance making, and all the other political stuff from the glory days of gw1. You may argue that it’s “more fun and more accessible to different kinds of people to not have politics” but can’t we have JUST ONE aspect of guilds that CAN be highly political? And don’t even suggest World V World is political (LOL). It’s a bunch of people giving out orders because they bought a commander tag for 100g. They didn’t EARN that like gw1 leaders had to. They didn’t obtain respect from their followers. They just logged on and put their tag on, popped on ts or ventrilo and started barking out orders to conquer lands the same way they conquered them the last 2,378 times. There is no politics in gw2 like there was in gw1 (that includes wvw).

Last one: It doesn’t really mean anything to be a leader in a guild anymore since everyone can be in anyone’s guild at the same time. This destroys players having pride in their guild and strips away the honor of being an officer/leader. The guild systems now are more similar to WoW (terribly boring) than they are to gw1. Would it really impact guild morale if the guild leader was offline for a week now? Nope! And some, if not most, would say that is a good thing but I disagree. The best part about gw1 and Eve Online was having good leaders that you could respect and desiring to rise to the top one day yourself. Who cares about rising to the top in gw2 the way guilds function right now?

I say all this to express my (very minority) concerns and hopes for HoT. I saw in one of the videos some stuff that gives me hope (in guild competition in terms of completion times, etc) and I’m really hoping Anet gives those of us who love politics something to do. Gw1 had politics. Eve Online had politics. WoW did NOT have politics and so far gw2 is a lot more similar to WoW in that respect and I hate it.

Pretty good thread in fact.

I don’t really know how I can say anything that you already said here. Yes, It’ would be really cool to see these aspect entering in GW2. At least alliances would be a pretty interesting addition.

Other than that, I could see faction emerging from the different races but, in the storyline right now the whole thing is that our toon try it’s best to unify everybody. Differents factions would hurt this work a lot.

What do you mean by political? I certainly wouldn’t welcome backstabbing/spying etc…not in a video game like this. It has no place. I’m also not understanding where the politics was a thing in GW1. We had factions, but that was just a means to a rep, rather than anythng else. It wouldn’t make sense in this game.

Can you elaborate some? I’ve asked around and ppl from GW1 I know are scratching their head somewhat at GW1 being described as political.

I totally agree with you. When I was a kid i used to play a cheap p2w WoW-clone mmorpg that was poorly made but loved it and you know why? Only because of the politics and the reasons you listed above. It was extremly fun to form alliances with other guilds in order to beat the stronger enemy or backstab a previous ally of your in order to become a stronger guild and in general doing whatever it takes to rise to the top. I played more than 6000 hours on that game switching guilds and betraying people or trying to raise me guild to the top . AND IT WAS THE BEST GAMING EXPERIENCE I EVER HAD.

When I started playing guild wars 2 i stayed only for the mechanics and the combat but I really hope that maybe some day that excitement I had to log in and get myself involved in the politics will come back to me.

Randulf.7614:

What do you mean by political? I certainly wouldn’t welcome backstabbing/spying etc…not in a video game like this. It has no place. I’m also not understanding where the politics was a thing in GW1. We had factions, but that was just a means to a rep, rather than anythng else. It wouldn’t make sense in this game.

Can you elaborate some? I’ve asked around and ppl from GW1 I know are scratching their head somewhat at GW1 being described as political.

Not sure what you meant by “rep” but the people that lead the faction farming guilds in Cantha were highly politically active. I myself was a member, officer, guild leader, and co guild leader of various guilds that were extremely strong in the faction scene and I can’t tell you the number of times I heard about/was personally involved in/was impacted by sabotages (people working their way up to officer then kicking entire guild when the leader is offline), spying missions (to get member list, take screenshots of guild/alliance chat), and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was a BLAST. I HATE that for some reason many people think like you and say this has no place in this game when there were and maybe still are a GOOD amount of us that MISS that aspect of gw1.

Marvok.1083:

I totally agree with you. When I was a kid i used to play a cheap p2w WoW-clone mmorpg that was poorly made but loved it and you know why? Only because of the politics and the reasons you listed above. It was extremly fun to form alliances with other guilds in order to beat the stronger enemy or backstab a previous ally of your in order to become a stronger guild and in general doing whatever it takes to rise to the top. I played more than 6000 hours on that game switching guilds and betraying people or trying to raise me guild to the top . AND IT WAS THE BEST GAMING EXPERIENCE I EVER HAD.

When I started playing guild wars 2 i stayed only for the mechanics and the combat but I really hope that maybe some day that excitement I had to log in and get myself involved in the politics will come back to me.

I TOTALLY agree! What games was that by the way?

If they could somehow infuse politics into guilds/worlds/factions in this game and make it about beating your rivals on a DAILY basis in some grand and visible-for-all-to-see form I doubt I would not log on this game daily and play even more than I have so far.

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Randulf.7614:

What do you mean by political? I certainly wouldn’t welcome backstabbing/spying etc…not in a video game like this. It has no place. I’m also not understanding where the politics was a thing in GW1. We had factions, but that was just a means to a rep, rather than anythng else. It wouldn’t make sense in this game.

Can you elaborate some? I’ve asked around and ppl from GW1 I know are scratching their head somewhat at GW1 being described as political.

Not sure what you meant by “rep” but the people that lead the faction farming guilds in Cantha were highly politically active. I myself was a member, officer, guild leader, and co guild leader of various guilds that were extremely strong in the faction scene and I can’t tell you the number of times I heard about/was personally involved in/was impacted by sabotages (people working their way up to officer then kicking entire guild when the leader is offline), spying missions (to get member list, take screenshots of guild/alliance chat), and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was a BLAST. I HATE that for some reason many people think like you and say this has no place in this game when there were and maybe still are a GOOD amount of us that MISS that aspect of gw1.

That…sounds horrible though. Isn’t that considered griefing?

Randulf.7614:

That…sounds horrible though. Isn’t that considered griefing?

It is. What I got from this post is that he wants a return of alliances (which is actually a good idea), world based eye candy instead of the current system (getting gold increases and karma increases and etc) which I don’t agree with, and it sounds like he wants guild to be more restrictive in a claim to “have more pride in your guild” but from that last statement it would seem it wants people to be limited to one guild so it makes it more enjoyable to kick someone out when they have been lead to believe they are rising in the ranks (which is a terrible idea)

ImTasty.2163:

Randulf.7614:

That…sounds horrible though. Isn’t that considered griefing?

It is. What I got from this post is that he wants a return of alliances (which is actually a good idea), world based eye candy instead of the current system (getting gold increases and karma increases and etc) which I don’t agree with, and it sounds like he wants guild to be more restrictive in a claim to “have more pride in your guild” but from that last statement it would seem it wants people to be limited to one guild so it makes it more enjoyable to kick someone out when they have been lead to believe they are rising in the ranks (which is a terrible idea)

Alliances returning but having no political atmosphere to them (no structure mainly) would just be an extension of the current situation guilds are in; a hot mess that doesn’t encourage people to log on daily, contribute, and rise up the ladder. There is no joy about rising up the ladder in gw2 like there was in gw1.

I’m sick of seeing All that karma/gold boost, which changes daily, and barely impacts much of anything. Even if you do get 1-3g more a day does it really mean much in the grand scheme? Will you look back, a year from now, and care? I CERTAINLY would look back and care about having “eye candy” (as you call it) because that reflects something I helped accomplish. Why do you think the Hall of Monuments was such a popular feature in gw1: Eye of the North? People could actually SEE their accomplishments as they were added to their hall.

I do think having access to so many guilds takes away from being excited about one guild. After all, why would you want to work your butt off to make a guild successful when you could just join a massive 500 person guild and keep joining others until you find one that is already built up? This doesn’t encourage the rise of new guilds at all.

I won’t lie, having my guild members get kicked by a sabotage hurt in gw1, but it was part of the game and I accepted that (it made logging on daily an interesting thing!).

In the end it doesn’t really matter. This is what I, at least 2 others in this thread, and I’m sure a good amount more, want and we have been deprived of it since gw2 launched. I love this game dearly, but this is the one major flaw of it imo. I’m REALLY looking forward to the new things they are going to add to guilds in HoT and I hope ALL my complaints go away

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Alliances returning but having no political atmosphere to them (no structure mainly) would just be an extension of the current situation guilds are in; a hot mess that doesn’t encourage people to log on daily, contribute, and rise up the ladder. There is no joy about rising up the ladder in gw2 like there was in gw1.

I’m sick of seeing All that karma/gold boost, which changes daily, and barely impacts much of anything. Even if you do get 1-3g more a day does it really mean much in the grand scheme? Will you look back, a year from now, and care? I CERTAINLY would look back and care about having “eye candy” (as you call it) because that reflects something I helped accomplish. Why do you think the Hall of Monuments was such a popular feature in gw1: Eye of the North? People could actually SEE their accomplishments as they were added to their hall.

I do think having access to so many guilds takes away from being excited about one guild. After all, why would you want to work your butt off to make a guild successful when you could just join a massive 500 person guild and keep joining others until you find one that is already built up? This doesn’t encourage the rise of new guilds at all.

I won’t lie, having my guild members get kicked by a sabotage hurt in gw1, but it was part of the game and I accepted that (it made logging on daily an interesting thing!).

In the end it doesn’t really matter. This is what I, at least 2 others in this thread, and I’m sure a good amount more, want and we have been deprived of it since gw2 launched. I love this game dearly, but this is the one major flaw of it imo. I’m REALLY looking forward to the new things they are going to add to guilds in HoT and I hope ALL my complaints go away

I will agree with you about alliances. If they can be incorporated into the game and have the same amount of value as they have in GW1 then I’m for it. I loved my alliance in the first one and would love to see a return of something similar.

The eye candy, which is what it is, is just extra fluff. I’d rather have more meaningful buffs from WvW. As it is the pay off is a a bit weak. I’d rather they focus on increasing the buffs we get from WvW first before adding fluff of statues, or memorials, or whatever eye candy you are asking for.7

As for the HoM yes it was popular but there is a drawback from what HoM did and what you want. HoM was for your PERSONAL achievements, not what the world as achieved. A better PERSONAL reward system can be nice, but it should be way down on the priority list for Anet. After all HoM did not come out until a few years after the release of GW1. I’d rather Anet work on more content, like the expansion we are getting, instead of accounting for more fluff.

As for the griefing you were talking about I will not support anything like that. It that’s what you want then I hope we never get anything like that and that your complaints will never go away.

TL;DR Alliances good, eye candy so-so, greifing bad, and fluff is not a bad idea but should come second to actual content. To recall GW1, the trophies I got for beating the Undead Linch, Shiro, and Abaddon would mean nothing if the fight to beat them was not fun.

I hope the spirit of cooperation that is a pillar of GW2 stays intact. Leave the drama to the soap operas.

5 minutes into this thread and this popped right into my head:

Last time on Guild Wars 2…

ImTasty.2163:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Alliances returning but having no political atmosphere to them (no structure mainly) would just be an extension of the current situation guilds are in; a hot mess that doesn’t encourage people to log on daily, contribute, and rise up the ladder. There is no joy about rising up the ladder in gw2 like there was in gw1.

I’m sick of seeing All that karma/gold boost, which changes daily, and barely impacts much of anything. Even if you do get 1-3g more a day does it really mean much in the grand scheme? Will you look back, a year from now, and care? I CERTAINLY would look back and care about having “eye candy” (as you call it) because that reflects something I helped accomplish. Why do you think the Hall of Monuments was such a popular feature in gw1: Eye of the North? People could actually SEE their accomplishments as they were added to their hall.

I do think having access to so many guilds takes away from being excited about one guild. After all, why would you want to work your butt off to make a guild successful when you could just join a massive 500 person guild and keep joining others until you find one that is already built up? This doesn’t encourage the rise of new guilds at all.

I won’t lie, having my guild members get kicked by a sabotage hurt in gw1, but it was part of the game and I accepted that (it made logging on daily an interesting thing!).

In the end it doesn’t really matter. This is what I, at least 2 others in this thread, and I’m sure a good amount more, want and we have been deprived of it since gw2 launched. I love this game dearly, but this is the one major flaw of it imo. I’m REALLY looking forward to the new things they are going to add to guilds in HoT and I hope ALL my complaints go away

I will agree with you about alliances. If they can be incorporated into the game and have the same amount of value as they have in GW1 then I’m for it. I loved my alliance in the first one and would love to see a return of something similar.

The eye candy, which is what it is, is just extra fluff. I’d rather have more meaningful buffs from WvW. As it is the pay off is a a bit weak. I’d rather they focus on increasing the buffs we get from WvW first before adding fluff of statues, or memorials, or whatever eye candy you are asking for.7

As for the HoM yes it was popular but there is a drawback from what HoM did and what you want. HoM was for your PERSONAL achievements, not what the world as achieved. A better PERSONAL reward system can be nice, but it should be way down on the priority list for Anet. After all HoM did not come out until a few years after the release of GW1. I’d rather Anet work on more content, like the expansion we are getting, instead of accounting for more fluff.

As for the griefing you were talking about I will not support anything like that. It that’s what you want then I hope we never get anything like that and that your complaints will never go away.

TL;DR Alliances good, eye candy so-so, greifing bad, and fluff is not a bad idea but should come second to actual content. To recall GW1, the trophies I got for beating the Undead Linch, Shiro, and Abaddon would mean nothing if the fight to beat them was not fun.

Ok so we agree on Alliances (yey!). Check.

As for the “eye candy” vs. “semi useless buffs,” they are both a matter of simple programming. It’s not like it would take much for Anet to occasionally give a specific world for a big achievement they accomplished. It would probably take less than a day to program that and, as other worlds earn that amazing feat (if it is one that can be earned by more than one world), they can just copy and paste it to their world. I’m totally fine with them increasing the buffs from wvw stuff to make them more useful! I think they could easily do both of these to appeal to both of us.

Lastly, I guess we won’t agree on what you call “griefing.” All I can say is from gw1, and especially Eve Online, there was a LOT of fun to be had by the political aspect of it. One could argue Eve Online’s foundation is in politics as you can’t get anywhere until you embrace the system or be a good enough leader to create your own system. I want that system, at least in some small way, to be transfer to Gw2. Not in a way that forces those who don’t want to deal with politics to have to (no one HAD to join the major faction farming guilds of gw1: factions), but accessible to those that do.