Guild Wars 2

Why can’t all guildies access the guild buffs? I don’t see what’s special about a karma or xp boost that should require HOT…

Absolutely agreed. I find it very embarrassing to tell our members that unfortunately the buffs are only for people with the expansion.

Didn’t know this. I hope they normalize all guild buffs asap. Considering all guild buffs were taken away with the introduction of HoT this isn’t surprising.

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

What are you talking about?

Just because someone doesn’t buy HoT doesn’t make them F2P … I have several friends I’ve played with for years that simply don’t have the expansion. They used to get guild buffs …

Mikal Dynath.6195:

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

What are you talking about?

Just because someone doesn’t buy HoT doesn’t make them F2P … I have several friends I’ve played with for years that simply don’t have the expansion. They used to get guild buffs …

Yes, that’s true too. But I’m sure the decision was designed around getting people to buy the expansion. It’s STILL a business decision and it’s still not likely to be changed. It would be nice though.

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Usually, I agree with what you say, but this time I don’t.

Guild buffs should not have been something locked behind the expansion pack. Guild buffs should be available to all guild members regardless of whether they’ve bought HoT or not.

It’s not like HoT introduced buffs to the game.

Seera.5916:

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Usually, I agree with what you say, but this time I don’t.

Guild buffs should not have been something locked behind the expansion pack. Guild buffs should be available to all guild members regardless of whether they’ve bought HoT or not.

It’s not like HoT introduced buffs to the game.

I’m not disagreeing. I’m saying it’s a business decision unlikely to be changed. I think it should be changed too…I just don’t think it will be. This is a call from the suits.

I don’t really think it’s “fair” but let’s be honest, if you’re even remotely serious about this game, you have / are planning to get HoT. Like come on, it’s $50. You could pay that much for a game that you play for 25 hours and never pick up again. It’s really not that much to ask, and frankly, if you’re going into an MMO not expecting to buy the expansions, idk what you’re thinking.

Andred.1087:

I don’t really think it’s “fair” but let’s be honest, if you’re even remotely serious about this game, you have / are planning to get HoT. Like come on, it’s $50. You could pay that much for a game that you play for 25 hours and never pick up again. It’s really not that much to ask, and frankly, if you’re going into an MMO not expecting to buy the expansions, idk what you’re thinking.

Well that’s the thing. I’m pretty sure most of the people who own the core game and still play are buying HoT anyway. The percentage of active players who aren’t going to buy HoT is very small. Compared with free to play players which a far greater percentage. I still think they should change it.

Andred.1087:

I don’t really think it’s “fair” but let’s be honest, if you’re even remotely serious about this game, you have / are planning to get HoT. Like come on, it’s $50. You could pay that much for a game that you play for 25 hours and never pick up again. It’s really not that much to ask, and frankly, if you’re going into an MMO not expecting to buy the expansions, idk what you’re thinking.

The fact is strong with this one.

Vayne.8563:

Seera.5916:

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Usually, I agree with what you say, but this time I don’t.

Guild buffs should not have been something locked behind the expansion pack. Guild buffs should be available to all guild members regardless of whether they’ve bought HoT or not.

It’s not like HoT introduced buffs to the game.

I’m not disagreeing. I’m saying it’s a business decision unlikely to be changed. I think it should be changed too…I just don’t think it will be. This is a call from the suits.

I agree this likely was a business decision. However, I’m not sure anyone at ANet wears suits and they’re driving the bus since they took over the publisher role. I’ve never seen Mike O in one.

There’s a business integrity question that they apparently did not consider worth basing the decision on. Consumers bought the core game. The core game came with certain benefits that not only required purchase, but which also took in-game actions to unlock. Now those benefits have been removed from core, requiring a new purchase and more actions to regain. How many players the removal of something paid for affects is not material to the integrity issue.

Sure, the “game conditions may change during play” clause in the ToS/UA gives them the power to do so with impunity. I’m not up in arms about it. Both guilds I’m part of are basically dead. That said, it was not a decision that inspired trust, loyalty and respect on my part. Rather the opposite, and such emotional capital ought to be of concern to businesses. I doubt I’m alone in that, though I’ve no idea just how many care.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Seera.5916:

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Usually, I agree with what you say, but this time I don’t.

Guild buffs should not have been something locked behind the expansion pack. Guild buffs should be available to all guild members regardless of whether they’ve bought HoT or not.

It’s not like HoT introduced buffs to the game.

I’m not disagreeing. I’m saying it’s a business decision unlikely to be changed. I think it should be changed too…I just don’t think it will be. This is a call from the suits.

I agree this likely was a business decision. However, I’m not sure anyone at ANet wears suits and they’re driving the bus since they took over the publisher role. I’ve never seen Mike O in one.

There’s a business integrity question that they apparently did not consider worth basing the decision on. Consumers bought the core game. The core game came with certain benefits that not only required purchase, but which also took in-game actions to unlock. Now those benefits have been removed from core, requiring a new purchase and more actions to regain. How many players the removal of something paid for affects is not material to the integrity issue.

Sure, the “game conditions may change during play” clause in the ToS/UA gives them the power to do so with impunity. I’m not up in arms about it. Both guilds I’m part of are basically dead. That said, it was not a decision that inspired trust, loyalty and respect on my part. Rather the opposite, and such emotional capital ought to be of concern to businesses. I doubt I’m alone in that, though I’ve no idea just how many care.

The suits is a euphamism. It doesn’t literally mean suits. The problem is there are still people making decisions at high levels, whether at Anet or NcSoft that are controlling some of the decisions. The developers that actually work on the game probably don’t have much say in these things. It’s extremely likely that some decisions are made for the reasons of making profit, them being a business and all. lol

Support just told me they were unaware of this and to have the affected guildies submit support tickets with screen shots of the message. Let’s make this a thing…

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

I don’t think it was a business decision: I think it was an oversight. ANet said pre-HoT that Guilds would have access to previously-earned upgrades and I don’t think they realized that the implementation of the bartender|buffs would lockout non-HoT owners. I guess one could argue that the old upgrades were one-offs and don’t exist anymore, while the new ones are permanently available; I think that’s a post-hoc rationalization.

If I’m correct, then it would be a business decision as to whether to fix the (presumed) issue and I can’t imagine ANet wanting to spend that much developer or QA time to change the implementation. Even the “simple” matter of adding an NPC to the LA guild instance requires work.

tl;dr Yeah, it socks [sic], but sometimes life does (and games do, too).

Sarika.3756:

Support just told me they were unaware of this and to have the affected guildies submit support tickets with screen shots of the message. Let’s make this a thing…

Thank you for doing something about it!

Don’t listen to those telling us to be quiet when we see something wrong.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Seera.5916:

Vayne.8563:

This is a business decision that’s unlikely to change. While it’s true that we used to have buffs for everyone in the guild, it’s also true we never had free to play players before. The free to play Guild Wars 2 is more of an unlimited demo than an actual full game. Anet isn’t allowing people to be free to play players out of the goodness of they’re heart. The idea is to convert free to play players to paying players. And while some people might think it’s cheesy to do this and not join, more people will likely join.

Usually, I agree with what you say, but this time I don’t.

Guild buffs should not have been something locked behind the expansion pack. Guild buffs should be available to all guild members regardless of whether they’ve bought HoT or not.

It’s not like HoT introduced buffs to the game.

I’m not disagreeing. I’m saying it’s a business decision unlikely to be changed. I think it should be changed too…I just don’t think it will be. This is a call from the suits.

I agree this likely was a business decision. However, I’m not sure anyone at ANet wears suits and they’re driving the bus since they took over the publisher role. I’ve never seen Mike O in one.

There’s a business integrity question that they apparently did not consider worth basing the decision on. Consumers bought the core game. The core game came with certain benefits that not only required purchase, but which also took in-game actions to unlock. Now those benefits have been removed from core, requiring a new purchase and more actions to regain. How many players the removal of something paid for affects is not material to the integrity issue.

Sure, the “game conditions may change during play” clause in the ToS/UA gives them the power to do so with impunity. I’m not up in arms about it. Both guilds I’m part of are basically dead. That said, it was not a decision that inspired trust, loyalty and respect on my part. Rather the opposite, and such emotional capital ought to be of concern to businesses. I doubt I’m alone in that, though I’ve no idea just how many care.

“Game conditions may change” is right…. I used cash to help build one of my smaller guilds up to all the WvW upgrade unlocks then it was taken off me without a refund…

Why do I even bother spending money on this game.

I agree that content players had access to before HoT, they should still have access to. New HoT content should be available to HoT purchasers. Not a fan of taking away content in general.

I have not seen anyone react to these tiny buffs missing with ‘I must get HoT right now’. I have seen it cause dissatisfaction and that may cause people to delay the purchase.

Garambola.2461:

I have not seen anyone react to these tiny buffs missing with ‘I must get HoT right now’. I have seen it cause dissatisfaction and that may cause people to delay the purchase.

Okay, as much as I think everyone should have access to this buff, this statement is just silly.

A million people, most of whom are used to paying for really bad cash shops and face book games are free to play players. People are used to having to pay for stuff these days. Really.

I’ve been recruiting for my guild and I get new people in all the time and not a single person I’ve said they can’t get the buff has said they’re not likely to buy the game because of it. However, when I said that not all the guild feature are accessible to them, a few of them have said they’re going to buy the game.

To an older player like me, stuff like this leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but there are so many people who have grown up in a completely different world.

When your expansion can’t sell on its own merits, this is what happens.

Sarika.3756:

Why can’t all guildies access the guild buffs? I don’t see what’s special about a karma or xp boost that should require HOT…

It’s part of the expansion. Don’t see why some should be able to cherry pick some content and not the rest.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Sarika.3756:

Why can’t all guildies access the guild buffs? I don’t see what’s special about a karma or xp boost that should require HOT…

It’s part of the expansion. Don’t see why some should be able to cherry pick some content and not the rest.

But they had access to guild buffs BEFORE HoT was launched. Why was something TAKEN AWAY from players who chose not to buy HoT? It would be entirely different if guild buffs was something that came with HoT. But guild buffs came with the core game. Why was a core game featured moved to expansion pack content?

It’s not like anyone is saying those without HoT should be able to create Revenants or have access to the elite specializations.

All players here are asking for is for content that came with the base game to be available to those who just have the base game.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Sarika.3756:

Why can’t all guildies access the guild buffs? I don’t see what’s special about a karma or xp boost that should require HOT…

It’s part of the expansion. Don’t see why some should be able to cherry pick some content and not the rest.

Before the expansion, everyone could get buffs, not just free players but people who bought the original game. Now people who bought the original game can’t get guild buffs.

I don’t care as much about free to play players not getting it, but people who paid for the game? They shouldn’t lose the ability to get guild buffs when they once had it.

Actually, I stand corrected on your first point.

On your second, I said that I believe that you are. Dissembling my words isn’t going to change my opinion. Supporting your statements with facts and evidence and not anecdotes that can’t be verified will. I’d also believe that if you didn’t care what I believe, you wouldn’t post about it so much.

DaShi.1368:

Actually, I stand corrected on your first point.

On your second, I said that I believe that you are. Dissembling my words isn’t going to change my opinion. Supporting your statements with facts and evidence and not anecdotes that can’t be verified will. I’d also believe that if you didn’t care what I believe, you wouldn’t post about it so much.

It’s think it’s a fact that Facebook games exist and tons of free to play MMOs exist that aren’t free to play and they charge for all sorts of unreasonable things. I think it’s a fact that people’s expectations in general are trained by their experiences. The conversations I claimed I did have are only natural.

If you go to most free to play players who like the game and you give them more reason to buy the game, ie you can get these other features as well as the new content, of course some of them are going to say yes I’m planning buying the game. My next paycheck or when I get money or when I hit 80. It’s a perfectly reasonable response.

It’s even possible some people say theyr’e going to buy it, and never do, or have no real intention of it, but they say it anyway. But I have no reason to make it up and it’s a very logical thing for a lot of people to say.

Just about everyone in my guild has bought HoT, so I don’t have that conversation so much with returning players. I have it with free to play players. What’s really that hard to believe.

In a culture where you have games like SWToR That are free to play but “pay too walk”, or games like DDO or Lotro where you have to pay for areas, races and professions to unlock them, how unreasonable is it to say that a specific buff isn’t available for free to play accounts?

It’s like we live in completely different worlds.

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, I stand corrected on your first point.

On your second, I said that I believe that you are. Dissembling my words isn’t going to change my opinion. Supporting your statements with facts and evidence and not anecdotes that can’t be verified will. I’d also believe that if you didn’t care what I believe, you wouldn’t post about it so much.

It’s think it’s a fact that Facebook games exist and tons of free to play MMOs exist that aren’t free to play and they charge for all sorts of unreasonable things. I think it’s a fact that people’s expectations in general are trained by their experiences. The conversations I claimed I did have are only natural.

If you go to most free to play players who like the game and you give them more reason to buy the game, ie you can get these other features as well as the new content, of course some of them are going to say yes I’m planning buying the game. My next paycheck or when I get money or when I hit 80. It’s a perfectly reasonable response.

It’s even possible some people say theyr’e going to buy it, and never do, or have no real intention of it, but they say it anyway. But I have no reason to make it up and it’s a very logical thing for a lot of people to say.

Just about everyone in my guild has bought HoT, so I don’t have that conversation so much with returning players. I have it with free to play players. What’s really that hard to believe.

In a culture where you have games like SWToR That are free to play but “pay too walk”, or games like DDO or Lotro where you have to pay for areas, races and professions to unlock them, how unreasonable is it to say that a specific buff isn’t available for free to play accounts?

It’s like we live in completely different worlds.

Because in this particular instance those guildies may have contributed to a mechanic that they can not use yet the guild needed their help to acquire it… So yes it was a kitten- move to milk money….

Kamara.4187:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, I stand corrected on your first point.

On your second, I said that I believe that you are. Dissembling my words isn’t going to change my opinion. Supporting your statements with facts and evidence and not anecdotes that can’t be verified will. I’d also believe that if you didn’t care what I believe, you wouldn’t post about it so much.

It’s think it’s a fact that Facebook games exist and tons of free to play MMOs exist that aren’t free to play and they charge for all sorts of unreasonable things. I think it’s a fact that people’s expectations in general are trained by their experiences. The conversations I claimed I did have are only natural.

If you go to most free to play players who like the game and you give them more reason to buy the game, ie you can get these other features as well as the new content, of course some of them are going to say yes I’m planning buying the game. My next paycheck or when I get money or when I hit 80. It’s a perfectly reasonable response.

It’s even possible some people say theyr’e going to buy it, and never do, or have no real intention of it, but they say it anyway. But I have no reason to make it up and it’s a very logical thing for a lot of people to say.

Just about everyone in my guild has bought HoT, so I don’t have that conversation so much with returning players. I have it with free to play players. What’s really that hard to believe.

In a culture where you have games like SWToR That are free to play but “pay too walk”, or games like DDO or Lotro where you have to pay for areas, races and professions to unlock them, how unreasonable is it to say that a specific buff isn’t available for free to play accounts?

It’s like we live in completely different worlds.

Because in this particular instance those guildies may have contributed to a mechanic that they can not use yet the guild needed their help to acquire it… So yes it was a kitten- move to milk money….

First of all, you’ve made two statements that have nothing to do with each other. Why people are mad has nothing at all to do with the motivation behind the move.

Secondly, you’ve quoted a specific argument and your post has nothing at all to do with that argument.

The conversation you quoted has nothing to do with whether or not it’s a way to milk money. It doesn’t have to do with some people being upset.

It has to do with the number of people that won’t care vs they number of people that do care.

My argument is there are tons of free to play players now, most of whom won’t care, vs a relatively small contingent of people who own the original game but didn’t by the expansion that still play regularly.

So I’m not sure how your comment fits into what’s being said.

I haven’t said it isn’t annoying for people who own the core game. I haven’t said they shouldn’t be upset. I have said it’s a business decision.

I just don’t think that group is nearly as large as the free to play player base, who mostly won’t go ballistic over having a buff they can’t access in a game they’re not paying for.

Just start a straw poll to players satisfaction with A: Core Tyria and B: HoT. What is the acceptable discrepancy between an MMO and the first ‘expansion’? 20% tops?

I wonder also what the other big MMOs satisfaction difference was.

I will say this, I didn’t have this bitterness while playing Factions, or Burning Crusade to list a competitor.

…because this is a new feature that came with HoT?

I don’t see how this should come as a surprise to anyone. If you don’t buy HoT, you don’t get any of the stuff from HoT aside from the stuff that’s just not practical to restrict in an MMO setting. That’s pretty much how MMO expansions work.

It should be quite evident to understand that in MMOs you are left out without the current expansion. But I have sympathy for people who can’t even claim a simple buff.

Generally though, I think it’s fallacious to complain about a feature they can’t use be cause they deny to buy an expansion. The attitude towards the whole media landscape nowadays is quite questionable: shows, movies and games get pirated everyday. Many people don’t understand that it costs a lot of money and passion to create such a product. If you are – even after hundreds/thousands of spent hours – too greedy to pay a free-to-play game with no drawbacks then you deserve to be left out of certain parts and new features.

I do have HoT, but I liked it better when you didn’t need to talk to an NPC to get buffs. I think it’s pretty crappy that non-HoT can’t have them at all.

ProtoGunner.953:

It should be quite evident to understand that in MMOs you are left out without the current expansion. But I have sympathy for people who can’t even claim a simple buff.

Generally though, I think it’s fallacious to complain about a feature they can’t use be cause they deny to buy an expansion. The attitude towards the whole media landscape nowadays is quite questionable: shows, movies and games get pirated everyday. Many people don’t understand that it costs a lot of money and passion to create such a product. If you are – even after hundreds/thousands of spent hours – too greedy to pay a free-to-play game with no drawbacks then you deserve to be left out of certain parts and new features.

It’s fallacious to complain?
Oh dear.

Andred.1087:

I don’t really think it’s “fair” but let’s be honest, if you’re even remotely serious about this game, you have / are planning to get HoT. Like come on, it’s $50. You could pay that much for a game that you play for 25 hours and never pick up again. It’s really not that much to ask, and frankly, if you’re going into an MMO not expecting to buy the expansions, idk what you’re thinking.

Come on it’s $50? Do you know what games you can get for this money? You can get almost any game for this money. And don’t compare how many hours you get from it, that’s not really fair, because MMOs are designed for players to put more hours into them. That’s why they usually make you do things over and over again and they mostly focus on gameplay and not so much on others stuff like story and quests. That’s the MMOs strength, you can put many hours into them because they are designed that way. So again, it’s not a fair comparison, otherwise I could pull out greatest strength of single player games and say “hey, Witcher 3 has amazing story, quests, characters, world, replayability and more which GW2 is lacking.” And you can buy Witcher 3 for about same price. And just for the lulz, since you mentioned hours, let me tell you that I have put 400+ hours in Witcher 3 and I have maybe put only about 100 in GW2 since expansion came out and it doesn’t look very promising that I’ll want to put many more.

ProtoGunner.4953:

It should be quite evident to understand that in MMOs you are left out without the current expansion. But I have sympathy for people who can’t even claim a simple buff.

Generally though, I think it’s fallacious to complain about a feature they can’t use be cause they deny to buy an expansion. The attitude towards the whole media landscape nowadays is quite questionable: shows, movies and games get pirated everyday. Many people don’t understand that it costs a lot of money and passion to create such a product. If you are – even after hundreds/thousands of spent hours – too greedy to pay a free-to-play game with no drawbacks then you deserve to be left out of certain parts and new features.

And who are you to tell people when and why should they buy xpac? They can buy whatever they want, when they want, if they want. “They deny to buy xpac” Well, kitten, don’t you think they have a reason for that? Do you buy games that you don’t like or think it’s not worth the money? Did you buy every DLC or xpac for every game you played? Games cost money to make? Well kitten, yes they do. So we should buy every single game possible, because you know, they cost money to be made? People can decide where they will put their money. Just because it cost kitten tons of money to be made, it doesn’t mean it’s product of good quality. Or it could be good quality but people simply don’t like the changes/decisions made. There are many games that cost a lot to make, but doesn’t mean everyone likes them. It’s just not their cup of tea.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Just start a straw poll to players satisfaction with A: Core Tyria and B: HoT. What is the acceptable discrepancy between an MMO and the first ‘expansion’? 20% tops?

I wonder also what the other big MMOs satisfaction difference was.

I will say this, I didn’t have this bitterness while playing Factions, or Burning Crusade to list a competitor.

I can’t tell you the number of Propecies players that complained to me about Factions (a new, stand-alone campaign), Nightfall (another campaign), or especially Eye of the North (the only ‘expansion’). They railed against the gating, PvE-only skills being over-powered and trivializing content, and especially heroes making the game too easy to solo.

I don’t doubt that some big fans of GW2 hate HoT and stopped playing (or play with increasing levels of frustration). I also don’t doubt that there are some who love it and some new players that wonder what the fuss is about.

But this has nothing to do with Nathan being gated behind HoT. I admit that I assumed that buffs would be available to core players, because ANet said that all existing improvements would carry over and be available. Then again, technically that is still true: the buffs are now permanently available; the old buffs were only temporary and had to be built up each time.

However, even if Nathan should not be gated behind HoT, it wouldn’t be free to change that. I’d be surprised if ANet focused on working on changing things for Core owner when there are still high-demand requests (including bug fixes) for HoT.

FrizzFreston.5290:

ProtoGunner.953:

It should be quite evident to understand that in MMOs you are left out without the current expansion. But I have sympathy for people who can’t even claim a simple buff.

Generally though, I think it’s fallacious to complain about a feature they can’t use be cause they deny to buy an expansion. The attitude towards the whole media landscape nowadays is quite questionable: shows, movies and games get pirated everyday. Many people don’t understand that it costs a lot of money and passion to create such a product. If you are – even after hundreds/thousands of spent hours – too greedy to pay a free-to-play game with no drawbacks then you deserve to be left out of certain parts and new features.

It’s fallacious to complain?
Oh dear.

Under these circumstances yes.

serialkicker.5274:

And who are you to tell people when and why should they buy xpac? They can buy whatever they want, when they want, if they want.

Exactly, but then they have no right to complain if they are locked out of a feature. That simple.

ProtoGunner.4953:

FrizzFreston.5290:

ProtoGunner.953:

It should be quite evident to understand that in MMOs you are left out without the current expansion. But I have sympathy for people who can’t even claim a simple buff.

Generally though, I think it’s fallacious to complain about a feature they can’t use be cause they deny to buy an expansion. The attitude towards the whole media landscape nowadays is quite questionable: shows, movies and games get pirated everyday. Many people don’t understand that it costs a lot of money and passion to create such a product. If you are – even after hundreds/thousands of spent hours – too greedy to pay a free-to-play game with no drawbacks then you deserve to be left out of certain parts and new features.

It’s fallacious to complain?
Oh dear.

Under these circumstances yes.

While I would agree that it is a bit silly to complain in that case, (Though fallacious? Really?) this is hardly a new feature.

I get the whole “It’s only fair to pay for stuff” thing you’re talking about. But it’s totally not applicable to this actual situation. And surely it doesn’t excuse low tactics to force people into buying the expansion, by rebranding certain features.

This is part of the reason WvW is emptier. Everything is stuck behind a new progression system, every guild that was interested in WvW got their carefully built up siege resources and buffs and even some standard functionalities cut off and placed into the expansion. Because please buy the expansion! The new progression towards old stuff is way awesome! And the sad thing is, HoT doesn’t even add that much to WvW that is actually new.

And the “new” old guild buffs fit in this case as well.

Is this really the road we want ArenaNet to take? (Does ArenaNet?) Take away older features and rebrand them into new ones, and then sell them under an expansion.

FrizzFreston have you ever played any other MMO? What about WoW, FFXIV and other big ones? You can’t even level up to the new level cap. You are completely left out!

Those mindor changes and features taken out can be ignored, honestly…

Careful, you’re moving into fallacious argument territory. (The irony!) It’s not relevant which games I have or haven’t played.

I have HoT, btw. I have no problem paying for new content. But needing to pay for things I had before feels weird. (Obviously that wasn’t the reason I did get HoT) And that’s what people are complaining about.

Not sure why you said you can sympathise, and then you don’t even seem to know what the complaint seems to be.

ProtoGunner.4953:

serialkicker.5274:

And who are you to tell people when and why should they buy xpac? They can buy whatever they want, when they want, if they want.

Exactly, but then they have no right to complain if they are locked out of a feature. That simple.

I didn’t reply to you about whether deserve buffs or not, but because you’re judging people that are too greedy and don’t want to put money for xpac.
But if you want to talk about whether they deserve it, then I will disagree with you again, because buffs are not a feature of HoT, they were in game before HoT. It’s a feature of core game. It’s a bit silly that you’re in guild and you can’t get a buff that YOUR guildmates worked for, The guild worked for buffs, why can’t the guild decide who gets it. If leader or officer thinks someone should not get buff, because they haven’t contribute to it, because they didn’t buy xpac, then let leader deal with it.
I have no problem with sharing buffs with players that didn’t buy xpac in our guild, because they are part of our guild and they are friends and I know they do whatever they can for guild and contribute in other ways and I’m also not gonna judge or tell anyone that they should buy xpac.
It’s just silly that they locked even such a small things (yet important) and especially if we consider other stuff like dungeons nerf for example and you get pretty clear picture that they are really trying their best to force anyone to buy xpac.. Now, there is nothing wrong with promoting your xpac and making it hard to resist, but do so with making xpac worthy and awresome, not by altering core game and nerfing features there and removing them for those who don’t buy xpac. That’s bullkitten and some people don’t want to support that.

These 24hour characterbound buffs are a new feature and didn’t exist before HOT. You can use it however, if you have the expansion which – again – is highly recommended to have, since otherwise you are left out of Raids, masteries, new subclasses, and other stuff.

The old Guild Buffs were taken away because of said “new and improved” Guild Buffs.

There wouldn’t be a problem if both coexist. But they don’t.

By your logic, you shouldn’t be able to access fractals without buying HoT. Because that is also entirely “new”.

ProtoGunner.4953:

These 24hour characterbound buffs are a new feature and didn’t exist before HOT. You can use it however, if you have the expansion which – again – is highly recommended to have, since otherwise you are left out of Raids, masteries, new subclasses, and other stuff.

Ok, so new kind of buffs, HoT exclusive, what does that tell you? They could made them same way as old buffs, but they didn’t, because they want you to buy xpac. They are still guild exclusive buffs, you can only get them if you’re in guild, but they locked them behind HoT. So yeah…
Also, I own HoT so no need to tell me what “I’m missing”.

serialkicker.5274:

but they didn’t, because they want you to buy xpac.

Of course they do, they, Anet, is a business and are making Games like GW2 to make money, it’s not a charity.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

serialkicker.5274:

but they didn’t, because they want you to buy xpac.

Of course they do, they, Anet, is a business and are making Games like GW2 to make money, it’s not a charity.

Read my previous post.

Anet removed something that players paid for from the game, tweaked/reskinned it, and put it back, locked behind the expansion. It is not new. Its charging players again for something they already paid for.

How would those defending this like a situation where, for example, Anet removed Warrior and Elementalist from the game, renamed them Fighter and Mage, recolored the skill icons, and locked them behind a new real money purchase?

Ashen.2907:

Anet removed something that players paid for from the game, tweaked/reskinned it, and put it back, locked behind the expansion. It is not new. Its charging players again for something they already paid for.

How would those defending this like a situation where, for example, Anet removed Warrior and Elementalist from the game, renamed them Fighter and Mage, recolored the skill icons, and locked them behind a new real money purchase?

I’m not quite buying this argument. Warriors and elementalists are character classes. In the past Anet removed magic find from armor, which was a buff that everyone had and changed the way it worked too. They also removed fractal progress and reset everyone, which annoyed a few people.

But this buff isn’t just a reskin of the old buff, because very few guilds, very very few, had 100% buff uptime and people couldn’t really choose what the guild triggered or didn’t trigger. You’re equating say a 24 hour magic buff when the guild triggered it, to a 24 hour personal buff that the guild unlocked but I can keep whenever I want. They really are different things.

That said, people did lose access to the old buffs. That’s the issue here, more than saying this is reskinned. For my guild, these buffs are a major improvement because we didn’t keep buffs going 24/7.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Anet removed something that players paid for from the game, tweaked/reskinned it, and put it back, locked behind the expansion. It is not new. Its charging players again for something they already paid for.

How would those defending this like a situation where, for example, Anet removed Warrior and Elementalist from the game, renamed them Fighter and Mage, recolored the skill icons, and locked them behind a new real money purchase?

I’m not quite buying this argument. Warriors and elementalists are character classes. In the past Anet removed magic find from armor, which was a buff that everyone had and changed the way it worked too. They also removed fractal progress and reset everyone, which annoyed a few people.

But this buff isn’t just a reskin of the old buff, because very few guilds, very very few, had 100% buff uptime and people couldn’t really choose what the guild triggered or didn’t trigger. You’re equating say a 24 hour magic buff when the guild triggered it, to a 24 hour personal buff that the guild unlocked but I can keep whenever I want. They really are different things.

That said, people did lose access to the old buffs. That’s the issue here, more than saying this is reskinned. For my guild, these buffs are a major improvement because we didn’t keep buffs going 24/7.

Magic find armor wearers were compensated, however. They got to freely choose what stat to change to. There has been no compensation for the guild buff.

It just seems like a very odd choice of thing to lock behind a paywall.

Unless someone was on the fence already, I highly doubt the little buffs would be enough to get someone to buy HoT.

Seera.5916:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Anet removed something that players paid for from the game, tweaked/reskinned it, and put it back, locked behind the expansion. It is not new. Its charging players again for something they already paid for.

How would those defending this like a situation where, for example, Anet removed Warrior and Elementalist from the game, renamed them Fighter and Mage, recolored the skill icons, and locked them behind a new real money purchase?

I’m not quite buying this argument. Warriors and elementalists are character classes. In the past Anet removed magic find from armor, which was a buff that everyone had and changed the way it worked too. They also removed fractal progress and reset everyone, which annoyed a few people.

But this buff isn’t just a reskin of the old buff, because very few guilds, very very few, had 100% buff uptime and people couldn’t really choose what the guild triggered or didn’t trigger. You’re equating say a 24 hour magic buff when the guild triggered it, to a 24 hour personal buff that the guild unlocked but I can keep whenever I want. They really are different things.

That said, people did lose access to the old buffs. That’s the issue here, more than saying this is reskinned. For my guild, these buffs are a major improvement because we didn’t keep buffs going 24/7.

Magic find armor wearers were compensated, however. They got to freely choose what stat to change to. There has been no compensation for the guild buff.

It just seems like a very odd choice of thing to lock behind a paywall.

Unless someone was on the fence already, I highly doubt the little buffs would be enough to get someone to buy HoT.

I’m not disagreeing, But I don’t see this buff as the same buff. Because I have this all the time and I never did before. It really is a different animal. I’m not saying it’s not a problem that we lost the first animal however.