Guild Wars 2

Currently necros are not a totally special class for pve, providing not a lot for parties and being only a decent addition. Don’t get me wrong I’m very happy with the angle they’ve put on the mesmer once again making it a great addition to parties however what I’m trying to get at is, are the devs looking into more what a class is good at and continuing to expand that greatness. If so will necros loose a place a pve and only improve in pvp and wvw

do necros have a place now?

and still to early to tell if chronomancer will have a place outside of wvw groups

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

Relshdan.6854:

do necros have a place now?

and still to early to tell if chronomancer will have a place outside of wvw groups

What I’m trying to get at is are the devs aiming to improve what classes are currently good at rather then fixing weaknesses.
Necros are only decent currently in pve however being great in pvp and wvw

Nightwin.6423:

Relshdan.6854:

do necros have a place now?

and still to early to tell if chronomancer will have a place outside of wvw groups

What I’m trying to get at is are the devs aiming to improve what classes are currently good at rather then fixing weaknesses.
Necros are only decent currently in pve however being great in pvp and wvw

well, judging by the mesmer, it seems to be attempting to fix a weakness (mesmers used to be simply veil bots in wvw groups)…..so hopefully, necro elite specialization will fix it’s weakness in pve (group support).

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

Wouldn’t that kill the classic necros even more surely?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

you realize that’s the same as saying “yes” right?

Necro offers a few things that super mesmers don’t offer.

They have better access to weakness, poison, bleed, and fear

That’s pretty much it. So you need to choose between the following:

1. Weakness, poison, bleed, fear

or
2. Blocks, invuln, stealth, quickness, alacrity, unblockable attacks, skill reset, shatters, confusion, torment, slow, and group support

Your choice!

Im not sure how you can lose a place you dont have. ;>

spoj.9672:

Im not sure how you can lose a place you dont have. ;>

I kind of have to agree with this sentiment. We don’t have a place in the current pve or pvp meta. I also do want to stress that we are still making some speculations about relative effectiveness or access to certain skills when there is still a lot up in the air. With Anet changing a bunch of mechanics including bleed stacks, burn, poison, detaching stats from traits, etc. it’s possible they will announce more things which will shift the desire for certain classes and builds. That being said, it’s safe to assume necro doesn’t have a place in the meta until we find out otherwise, so worrying about being displaced is rather moot.

P.S. I love necros. I get that they’re neglected, but one can hope for change.

Let’s see it that way. They can’t screw up the Necro in PvE because he’s already in such a bad place. They can only improve or leave him in place.

Nightwin.6423:

Currently necros are not a totally special class for pve,

Translation: There are absolutely rubbish in PVE, bottom of the barrel.

Nightwin.6423:

providing not a lot for parties

Translation: Providing nothing for parties.

Nightwin.6423:

and being only a decent addition.

Translation: They have nice outfits.

Nightwin.6423:

If so will necros loose a place a pve and only improve in pvp and wvw

What place do we have to lose? We are already bottom of the barrel. It is hard to imagine things could be any worse than they already are for the necromancer.

The problem with the way Necromancers are going into the expansion is it’ll be far too easy for ANet to simply fill all the gaps and holes they’ve left untouched for 3 years with the specialization.

So while other classes get fun and exciting new toys to play with that expand the way their class is played, Necromancers get barely enough to bring the class up to where most of the other classes currently are and will likely be blown away by the other specializations.

PvP and PvE the class doesn’t do well in at all. In WvW it’s only useful because of the burst potential of wells. So even there, they don’t have much of an identity even though they’re part of the meta.

Even with the trait changes we’ve seen so far, nothing is changing. Power builds will be using the exact same specs they are now and they can’t even choose a third tree to go in because no other GM traits are worth taking. Condi builds (for some reason ANet honestly thinks there’s a difference between a condi build and a terror build?) are in the same boat with having no 3rd line to really invest in.

So what we’ve seen so far is the class hasn’t changed at all going into HOT. There’s too much ground to make up for a single specialization to compensate for. Especially when every other class is getting one too.

Atherakhia.4086:

The problem with the way Necromancers are going into the expansion is it’ll be far too easy for ANet to simply fill all the gaps and holes they’ve left untouched for 3 years with the specialization.

So while other classes get fun and exciting new toys to play with that expand the way their class is played, Necromancers get barely enough to bring the class up to where most of the other classes currently are and will likely be blown away by the other specializations.

PvP and PvE the class doesn’t do well in at all. In WvW it’s only useful because of the burst potential of wells. So even there, they don’t have much of an identity even though they’re part of the meta.

Even with the trait changes we’ve seen so far, nothing is changing. Power builds will be using the exact same specs they are now and they can’t even choose a third tree to go in because no other GM traits are worth taking. Condi builds (for some reason ANet honestly thinks there’s a difference between a condi build and a terror build?) are in the same boat with having no 3rd line to really invest in.

So what we’ve seen so far is the class hasn’t changed at all going into HOT. There’s too much ground to make up for a single specialization to compensate for. Especially when every other class is getting one too.

were have people seen all the new traits in the new lines or are you only going on the lines we have now with no changes?

You do know that traits will change get cut and merged much like the elementalist air trait line right?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

you realize that’s the same as saying “yes” right?

No it doesn’t.
We don’t know what the necro specialization is yet. How can we already tell that an Elite Mesmer (for lack of a better name) is far superior to an Elite Necro if we don’t even know anything about the Necro elite spec yet? All we know is that it has a greatsword, that’s it.

Yes the Elite Mesmer took away some things previously unique to the Necro, but who knows maybe the Elite Necro will get some groundbreaking new mechanic. It’s too early to tell.

Linken.6345:

Atherakhia.4086:

The problem with the way Necromancers are going into the expansion is it’ll be far too easy for ANet to simply fill all the gaps and holes they’ve left untouched for 3 years with the specialization.

So while other classes get fun and exciting new toys to play with that expand the way their class is played, Necromancers get barely enough to bring the class up to where most of the other classes currently are and will likely be blown away by the other specializations.

PvP and PvE the class doesn’t do well in at all. In WvW it’s only useful because of the burst potential of wells. So even there, they don’t have much of an identity even though they’re part of the meta.

Even with the trait changes we’ve seen so far, nothing is changing. Power builds will be using the exact same specs they are now and they can’t even choose a third tree to go in because no other GM traits are worth taking. Condi builds (for some reason ANet honestly thinks there’s a difference between a condi build and a terror build?) are in the same boat with having no 3rd line to really invest in.

So what we’ve seen so far is the class hasn’t changed at all going into HOT. There’s too much ground to make up for a single specialization to compensate for. Especially when every other class is getting one too.

were have people seen all the new traits in the new lines or are you only going on the lines we have now with no changes?

You do know that traits will change get cut and merged much like the elementalist air trait line right?

They went over all of the trait changes last Friday on the twitch stream. It was like 5 hours long or something. They showed the current state (which doesn’t mean they’re final, I’ll admit that) of all traits for all classes.

To say the Necromancer’s changes were disappointing would be an understatement.

Atherakhia.4086:

Linken.6345:

Atherakhia.4086:

The problem with the way Necromancers are going into the expansion is it’ll be far too easy for ANet to simply fill all the gaps and holes they’ve left untouched for 3 years with the specialization.

So while other classes get fun and exciting new toys to play with that expand the way their class is played, Necromancers get barely enough to bring the class up to where most of the other classes currently are and will likely be blown away by the other specializations.

PvP and PvE the class doesn’t do well in at all. In WvW it’s only useful because of the burst potential of wells. So even there, they don’t have much of an identity even though they’re part of the meta.

Even with the trait changes we’ve seen so far, nothing is changing. Power builds will be using the exact same specs they are now and they can’t even choose a third tree to go in because no other GM traits are worth taking. Condi builds (for some reason ANet honestly thinks there’s a difference between a condi build and a terror build?) are in the same boat with having no 3rd line to really invest in.

So what we’ve seen so far is the class hasn’t changed at all going into HOT. There’s too much ground to make up for a single specialization to compensate for. Especially when every other class is getting one too.

were have people seen all the new traits in the new lines or are you only going on the lines we have now with no changes?

You do know that traits will change get cut and merged much like the elementalist air trait line right?

They went over all of the trait changes last Friday on the twitch stream. It was like 5 hours long or something. They showed the current state (which doesn’t mean they’re final, I’ll admit that) of all traits for all classes.

To say the Necromancer’s changes were disappointing would be an understatement.

Oh I missed that will read up more

Edit
On a side note did they say anything about fixing the skills that dont work under water flesh golem comes to mind.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

you realize that’s the same as saying “yes” right?

No it doesn’t.
We don’t know what the necro specialization is yet. How can we already tell that an Elite Mesmer (for lack of a better name) is far superior to an Elite Necro if we don’t even know anything about the Necro elite spec yet? All we know is that it has a greatsword, that’s it.

Except the question asked if NECROmancer was losing a place, not whatever the new special class is. And the answer is a clear yes, necromancer is completely overshadowed by Chronomancer. I have no idea how ____mancer will fair, but it isn’t the topic at hand, nor one we can even discuss until it is revealed.

However based on Anets past treatment of necro, it seems likely that the specialization will simply fill the gaping holes that necro has had since launch. While every other specialization will add power, leaving the necro special class behind the curve yet again.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Except the question asked if NECROmancer was losing a place.

And again I’m saying, until necro gets it’s upgrade, we don’t know.

Yes I get what you are saying, in it’s current state the necro is far behind the mesmer, but considering the OP is comparing the upgraded mesmer vs basic necro, that’s a rather unfair observation. Right now Mesmer overshadows the Necromancer by far, wether it will stay that way or be fixed with the necro upgrade, we will see in the future.

I suppose you could say its losing its place as its gone from 8th to 9th place. Then again last place to last place isnt really a change. :>

funny to see so much negativity about necro’s while they outshine in survivability and control, i think it’s more because ppl expect a necro to do insta-kill instead of overall victory.
they are not made for zergs no, they are made to survive even the worst case scenario where others die allot faster in.
no support, what are you doing then?
i support all the time and win battles whether without one they lose big time.

the one thing ppl keep on forgetting is that the core profession will be improved after the update hits which will be before HoT, this means that they are already trying to get every class (including the necro) to the same level so every class has an equal use.

let’s first wait till they announce the necro, then you can judge.

If anything the mesmer specialization will help because they also get access to wells which means there might be new rune sets that proc off of runes or something.

Eh, I think we should wait for specializations on the Necromancer to be released before we start assuming they are “losing a place with Specializations”. It looked to me like the Dev’s took a hard look at the Mesmer and tried to figure out how to improve on the base class. I’m sure the Dev’s will do the same for other professions.

sorudo.9054:

funny to see so much negativity about necro’s while they outshine in survivability and control, i think it’s more because ppl expect a necro to do insta-kill instead of overall victory.
they are not made for zergs no, they are made to survive even the worst case scenario where others die allot faster in.
no support, what are you doing then?
i support all the time and win battles whether without one they lose big time.

the one thing ppl keep on forgetting is that the core profession will be improved after the update hits which will be before HoT, this means that they are already trying to get every class (including the necro) to the same level so every class has an equal use.

let’s first wait till they announce the necro, then you can judge.

The only thing I can agree with is the last sentence here.

Support in this game is not just through healing, a boon like regen or some minor healing is nice, but when compared to a projectile wall that negates 100% of the damage, or a well timed Aegis effectively doing the same thing, as well as blind. Or even a stability to prevent being knocked away into death. Or shared Might/fury or even high levels of Vuln. These are the major areas of support in this game, and necros lack all but mediocre Vuln.

As for survival, again, active tools is where GW2 is. While necro has Deathshroud allowing you to absorb damage better, when you compare it to extra dodges/blocks/blinds/projectile defense that negate 100% of the damage, well, it’s really nothing worth writing home about. Necro has no Vigor Trait, no Blocks, Mediocre Blinds, and no projectile defense.

Necros just don’t really fit this game very well as designed, they need access to some of these tools.

Love playing wellbomb necro in WvW, but outside of that I don’t find the profession to have any great strengths that make them stand out among the crowd, they jsut feel mediocre everywhere else to me. Cool, and I love the necromancer idea from way way back in other games, but I jsut don’t feel like necro fits in this game with how it’s currently designed.

Here’s hoping for the specialization though.

Current necro – minimal group support and mediocre damage
Current status of necros in groups – not wanted

Necro specialization – unknown
Future status of necro with specialization in group – unknown.

Look on the bright side – it can hardly get much worse for necros.

Necros don’t need groups. We bust heads solo.

Mo Mo.1947:

Necros don’t need groups. We bust heads solo.

Except for you know, something like Lupi where you have to get carried hard now that you are expected to use projectile defense or dodge every 2s.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Except the question asked if NECROmancer was losing a place.

And again I’m saying, until necro gets it’s upgrade, we don’t know.

The best Necroelite can do is to make Necroelite useful. Not the Necromancer core. In fact, if the Elite will be any good, it would be a death kiss for core Necromancer to a much greater degree that good elites of other classes might be

New condi class will be revenant and necros spec will be probably minion focus and that is bullkitten. We all know necro is useless now and will be even more useless after hot patch.

It can’t get worse so it’s all good.

I will never understand what people find useless about necromancer in PvE. Running power wells plays out excellently in all circumstances, including PvP and WvW. I’ve never had any of the issues most of you appear to be running into in the past two years, and generally tend to be fairly capable of doing better than most by simply playing intelligently.

met.9653:

New condi class will be revenant and necros spec will be probably minion focus and that is bullkitten. We all know necro is useless now and will be even more useless after hot patch.

Actually, if they made the Minion AI work (and i cannot understand how the kitten this hasn’t happened yet, even in WoW-private servers this kitten doesn’t happen…), the new Death Magic GM trait would be totally “broken” and MM’s would be quite awesome.

I mean : Necromantic Corruption (minions deal more dmg and transfer condi on hit) . Like imagine your Bonefiend tranfering its selfroot… X)

Anmida.4058:

I will never understand what people find useless about necromancer in PvE. Running power wells plays out excellently in all circumstances, including PvP and WvW. I’ve never had any of the issues most of you appear to be running into in the past two years, and generally tend to be fairly capable of doing better than most by simply playing intelligently.

that’s the meta for you, most think it’s useless so they assume it’s bad.
necro’s are far from useless, it’s just that only a select few know how to use them properly.

Relshdan.6854:

do necros have a place now?

and still to early to tell if chronomancer will have a place outside of wvw groups

Surprisingly Yes! There are a few instances were necromancers really shine in PvE. Now these are very few and very far between and it isn’t even close to enough to warrant a slot for them on a team unless you play with the person and like them. But they do have their minor uses.

For starters they seem to excel in the Aetherblade fractal and Mai fractal. Their Terrormancer build has proven to be surprisingly good against the golems in the boss fight in Aether and the fact they can cheat death with Unholy sanctuary while taking signet of undeath along with something like well of power gives them plenty of options to support allies in the fight while remaining extremely difficult for Mai to kill. This doesn’t mean they are the best at it, but not a terrible option.

Other examples include the husks in Silverwaste which, the necromancer excels at killing them in mass as well as their utility in the Wurm world event.

Beyond that their uses tend to waver quite a bit. For dungeons they just don’t have the proper support other professions provide and are extremely lacking in the damage department. And getting to a dungeon like Arah there Death shroud is trivialized to the point its absolutely laughable.

piano man.1672:

Eh, I think we should wait for specializations on the Necromancer to be released before we start assuming they are “losing a place with Specializations”. It looked to me like the Dev’s took a hard look at the Mesmer and tried to figure out how to improve on the base class. I’m sure the Dev’s will do the same for other professions.

Yes lets wait for the specialization. Until then I got my tinfoil hat!

Nightwin.6423:

Relshdan.6854:

do necros have a place now?

and still to early to tell if chronomancer will have a place outside of wvw groups

Actually having skills that speed up your overpowered cooldowns is great on a group.

What I’m trying to get at is are the devs aiming to improve what classes are currently good at rather then fixing weaknesses.

Translation:Don’t fix what isn’t broken. Scratch that. “Necro” broken.

Necros are only decent currently in pve however being great in pvp and wvw

Translation: Necros are only great in PvE because the enemies there aren’t stun locking you with 25 stacks of might.

Losing a place? No. You haven’t got one to begin with.

Let’s see what your greatsword and spec will bring first before the complaints start please.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Losing a place? No. You haven’t got one to begin with.

Let’s see what your greatsword and spec will bring first before the complaints start please.

I’ll have my tin foil hat handy.

Anmida.4058:

I will never understand what people find useless about necromancer in PvE. Running power wells plays out excellently in all circumstances, including PvP and WvW. I’ve never had any of the issues most of you appear to be running into in the past two years, and generally tend to be fairly capable of doing better than most by simply playing intelligently.

You can run around naked with no armor and a level 1 weapon and not have any issues, the game is really easy. The problem is for efficient runs where everyone is pulling their weight necros are useless. All you have to do is play an ele for a few weeks and you will see the difference pretty clearly. 2x the damage, dozens of boons, projectile blocks, healing for the team, etc… Just because you can beat the content with your necro doesn’t make them desirable or working.

sorudo.9054:

funny to see so much negativity about necro’s while they outshine in survivability and control,

In WvW a necromancer gets absolutely facerolled when attacked by multiple enemies. Any other class just pops their invulnerability skill, and runs for safety.

Necromancers most definitely do not outshine in survivability. In fact, they kind of outshine in their lack of said survivability. Necromancers are unique in that they need to invest in survivability to be on par with other classes.

Necromancers also have an absolutely rubbish downed state, that does not allow them to escape death. Unlike some other classes, that can move and stealth while downed.

sorudo.9054:

Anmida.4058:

I will never understand what people find useless about necromancer in PvE. Running power wells plays out excellently in all circumstances, including PvP and WvW. I’ve never had any of the issues most of you appear to be running into in the past two years, and generally tend to be fairly capable of doing better than most by simply playing intelligently.

that’s the meta for you, most think it’s useless so they assume it’s bad.
necro’s are far from useless, it’s just that only a select few know how to use them properly.

Maybe if you left your little bubble you would understand the problem.

Anmida.4058:

I will never understand what people find useless about necromancer in PvE. Running power wells plays out excellently in all circumstances, including PvP and WvW. I’ve never had any of the issues most of you appear to be running into in the past two years, and generally tend to be fairly capable of doing better than most by simply playing intelligently.

Wells have a terribad combo field. So using well in PvE with Necromancer simply tend to negate useful boon generation from allies. Which mean less and less might → lead to less damage → longer kills → less room for error → hard time. Although, well have long cool down.

Dadnir.5038:

Wells have a terribad combo field. So using well in PvE with Necromancer simply tend to negate useful boon generation from allies. Which mean less and less might -> lead to less damage -> longer kills -> less room for error -> hard time. Although, well have long cool down.

I’d love to see Dark Fields reworked to give something more useful (More aggressive?) on blast finishers and leaps. But I honestly think that blasting fire fields is overpowered, and it has pushed most other combo fields out of PvE. The boons gained from it last a ridiculously long time compared to the benefits of every other blast finisher (except maybe water), and it’s become obvious that the current strategy in Dungeons & Fractals is absolutely reliant on someone (usually an Ele for the bonus fury) blasting that field around 8 times at the start of a fight.

Fields are pretty balanced in PvE. Only light, ethereal, ice, poison and dark are underused currently. However with HoT we could see more usage of ethereal for confusion stacking and dark for defiance bar destruction. Fire is obviously the only one really used all the time in combat. Water sometimes used. Lightning and smoke are both used heavily for running sections. Thats 4/9 fields used currently. With 2 more maybe getting more useage with the expansion. Thats not bad considering how simple encounters are currently.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Let’s wait for the necromancer specialization first.

This is the worst thing to do because it would be better than base necro or equally inferior to others. DS a second HP need to shredded and a new mechanic should replace it, HP is kitten inferior factor to sustain and DS is impossible to balance. War were the squishiest class despite highest HP pool DS back then was in many cases better than current version war got buffed with proper sustain there is a reason their viable specs use Healing Signet+Adrenal Health how much people complain it’s passive doesn’t matter it’s a proper sustain for them because they have to constantly attack they have decent attrition necro has no attrition.

That’s the biggest flaw of necro it’s the root to all that makes us inferior to others in soon to be every area. This new guy working on it doesn’t seem to understand or care about necro and DS’s hindrance. To me it looks like they are waiting until there’s only few necros left, necros I know have tomes ready to change main, constant proof of the issue have been showed but still they go around it completely. It’s like they are screaming at us :“We don’t care!!!”. I don’t think I have ever seen a red post in necro forum that’s not close to beta/lauch dates. So no waiting for the specialisation is not a good answer.

Edit: I would like to add they don’t hate us they don’t care enough to. Am I wrong?? They didn’t prove otherwise since launch to my knowledge.

I would imagine Necro become ritualist but the support type like have access to boons opposite now (which is condi heavy).
I hope Necro got guardian virtue so they can provide aura type skills.