Guild Wars 2

I was wondering what you guys think of this. The Specializations post said there was a class that would be getting Shouts with their new specialization and I believe the necro is the most likely class to get them.
Why? Because Warriors, rangers and guardians already have shouts (so they’re out of the question), thieves and elementalists don’t seem very leader-y (squishy and stealthy) and Mesmers were confirmed to get Wells. This leaves the shouts to either the Revenant, the Engineer or the necromancer. As Anet’s been building up the necromancer as a commander (See Trahearne), it seems VERY likely that the necro will get the shouts. It’d also give them group support (which they are currently lacking).

tl;dr
So I wanted to get your opinions on this, whether you’d like them to get the shouts and maybe some speculation as to what shouts we’re getting.

My opinion
I personally am of the opinion that shouts would NOT mix well with the necro because I imagine necros being reclus, social misfits and/or taboo. Their closeness to death would repulse many people, so it would not make sense to make them a commanding character. (I also see it as a waste of potential as Shouts are really basic skills that require little to no strategies to use. Only timing is key).

I’ve seen this speculation pop up several times over the past week or so, along with the name ‘Banshee’. An argument made in favor of it that gets mentioned is that Necromancers currently lack group support skills and that shouts could give those to them.

I wonder though whether the ‘all shouts’ elite specialization might not actually still be guardian or warrior, even though they already have access to them. Nothing is preventing them from getting more shouts, right?

Necro shouts would make sense to me. Not all shouts are strictly support. Warriors have a shout that induces fear and ranger shouts have a bunch of random effects concerning the pet.

Perhaps necromancer shouts are tied into the non-physical dead. You could be calling on the spirits of those who have passed on to bolster allies or inhibit enemies. Or the shouts could be a sort of unholy scream that tears away at the enemy’s soul. Lots of possibilities.

That is indeed an interesting idea, to use shouts to communicate with spirits. Unlike the Revenant who channels spirits, the necro could use them to manipulate their surroundings…
But since shouts are usually insta-casts, I doubt that will be the case.

I don’t think shouts would work. While the banshee is certainly an interesting idea, shouts as a whole would work better on the Revnant’s elite IMO.

Another concern I have with the idea that since Necromancers are lacking group utility and shouts would open this up is that the class should be useful without needing the elite specialization.

ANet has already failed Necromancers pretty badly with the trait redesign making Necromancers almost identical after HOT as they are now. Both condi and power builds really don’t have a third line to go in. But I really don’t want to be forced into being a ‘banshee’ just to have a use in PvE.

Atherakhia.4086:

Another concern I have with the idea that since Necromancers are lacking group utility and shouts would open this up is that the class should be useful without needing the elite specialization.

That’s the point of specialisations though, to open new playstyle options.

Mesmers lacked consistent AoE that meant that I couldn’t run mine in WvW unless I just wanted to be a veilbot with limited tagging capability. Chronomancer offers more more access to AoE.

Necros lack party support, so surely it makes sense for its spec to change that?

Knox.8462:

Atherakhia.4086:

Another concern I have with the idea that since Necromancers are lacking group utility and shouts would open this up is that the class should be useful without needing the elite specialization.

That’s the point of specialisations though, to open new playstyle options.

Mesmers lacked consistent AoE that meant that I couldn’t run mine in WvW unless I just wanted to be a veilbot with limited tagging capability. Chronomancer offers more more access to AoE.

Necros lack party support, so surely it makes sense for its spec to change that?

The point is that both Necromancers with and without the specialization should be beneficial in PvE. As it stands, they’re not. Simply providing all utility to the elite specialization and ignoring the rest of the class (which the HOT trait presentation shows is the case) is not acceptable.

Necromancer’s Banshee getting support shout is dumb.

• I can understand Banshee getting Shouts.
• I can understand Necromancers needing support.
• I don’t understand Banshee using shouts to support allies.

It sounds dumb when a Banshee is yelling at their allies like, “YOU GO GET STRONGEEEER!!!!!”

A Banshee shout would be, “SCREEECH! I’M SHOUTING STUFF HERE TO SCARE YOUUUUU!!! SCREECCCHHH!!!!”

If Banshee gets shouts, It should be a CC spec, not a support spec.

Most famous necromancer shout: “FIIREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!”
Followed by necro exploding.

How do you know Banshee is the Necromencar elite specc?

Zoid.2568:

How do you know Banshee is the Necromencar elite specc?

We don’t, this is just a speculation thread. I believe it’ll happen because of the reasons I stated in the first post

runeblade.7514:

Necromancer’s Banshee getting support shout is dumb.

• I can understand Banshee getting Shouts.
• I can understand Necromancers needing support.
• I don’t understand Banshee using shouts to support allies.

It sounds dumb when a Banshee is yelling at their allies like, “YOU GO GET STRONGEEEER!!!!!”

A Banshee shout would be, “SCREEECH! I’M SHOUTING STUFF HERE TO SCARE YOUUUUU!!! SCREECCCHHH!!!!”

If Banshee gets shouts, It should be a CC spec, not a support spec.

I don’t see the necro shouting at all. For them to use words to direct phantoms/spirits, I can understand, but giving orders just seems odd. Like I said, necromancers are on the dark side of society so it’d be really odd for them to lead others. Heck, the reason for turning to necromancy is usually not a pretty one (like a dead mother/friend/cat).

Roseblood.6793:

Zoid.2568:

How do you know Banshee is the Necromencar elite specc?

We don’t, this is just a speculation thread. I believe it’ll happen because of the reasons I stated in the first post

runeblade.7514:

Necromancer’s Banshee getting support shout is dumb.

• I can understand Banshee getting Shouts.
• I can understand Necromancers needing support.
• I don’t understand Banshee using shouts to support allies.

It sounds dumb when a Banshee is yelling at their allies like, “YOU GO GET STRONGEEEER!!!!!”

A Banshee shout would be, “SCREEECH! I’M SHOUTING STUFF HERE TO SCARE YOUUUUU!!! SCREECCCHHH!!!!”

If Banshee gets shouts, It should be a CC spec, not a support spec.

I don’t see the necro shouting at all. For them to use words to direct phantoms/spirits, I can understand, but giving orders just seems odd. Like I said, necromancers are on the dark side of society so it’d be really odd for them to lead others. Heck, the reason for turning to necromancy is usually not a pretty one (like a dead mother/friend/cat).

A banshee shouting at enemies. Do you see that?

You got to think of Necro shouts -especially any possible support shouts- not as uplifting things like “For Great Justice!” or “Hold the Line!” but more forceful, like an order from a totalitarian leader or a bad boss, with a bit of a sadistic bent. Not the reclusive Necromancer that plys in dark, forbidden secrets away from unwanted eyes, but the megalomaniacal Necromancer that’s raised a zombie army to take over the world; Sometimes you just need minions that still have a pulse.

Possible shouts might be something like “Make Them Suffer!”, “Inflict Pain!” or “Fight On You Fools!” or for some legacy GW1 shout names, “Coward!” “You are All Weaklings!” and Varesh’s “Enemies Must Die!”

You know what?

A Banshee with a ghostly greatsword who screams to debilitate her foes/terrify her allies into performing better sounds kinda awesome. I would, in fact, play the heck out of that. Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll get it – more likely, I think, for the Engineer or Elementalist to get shouts. Especially since Marjory is definitely going to be one of these new Necromancer specs, and frankly she’s really not a Banshee.

As we recall, ‘Shouts’ aren’t always shouts – back in GW1, the Paragon had various song-like vocal skills which may well translate as ‘Shouts’ in something like the Tempest. Heck, don’t even need to do that – how many mages in fantasy have you seen who shout arcane phrases in long-dead languages to cast spells? And we all know how loud one has to be to get themselves heard in a busy machine shop – the Siegemaster (calling it now, Siegemaster for Engineer spec :P) would’ve learned to bellow like a furnace just to get people to listen to him. He’d probably have a similar set of shouts to Warr and Guard, which would be depressing, but honestly? I could see the Tempest invoking magical effects via shouted incantations.

Still kinda want this Banshee, though. The notion of screaming at your enemies to inhibit/damage them prior to carving them to pieces with a greatsword is in fact tremendously awesome and I want to do it. I will totally reskin Ryn to something primal and savage and stuff. It would be amazing.

Fraggit, now you guys have me hoping I’m wrong. Necro elite spec next, ArenaNet!

Wow I came to post about this too. As much as I dislike the idea of Necromancer’s getting shouts, only because it just sounds uninteresting. I have to agree that, barring the Revenant obtaining them, Necromancers seem the most likely candidate. Especially if “one specialization getting a defiance bar” is what the Necromancer’s Elite specialization allows them to do with lifeforce.

If we look at it right now, almost all really tanky professions have shouts (Warriors, Guardians, and Rangers), Necromancer is also tanky and is lacking shouts. Again it could go to the Revenant too but Roy said they are a dark knight-ish archetypal profession and usually those guys are lone wolves.

EDIT: Elementalists are a possible choice too as @DevilLordLaser discusses above. Plus if it is true Elementalists are receiving swords and they go a battle-mage route then it’s really possible they’ll be tanky enough to have shouts work for them too.

Mar.4839:

Wow I came to post about this too. As much as I dislike the idea of Necromancer’s getting shouts, only because it just sounds uninteresting. I have to agree that, barring the Revenant obtaining them, Necromancers seem the most likely candidate. Especially if “one specialization getting a defiance bar” is what the Necromancer’s Elite specialization allows them to do with lifeforce.

If we look at it right now, almost all really tanky professions have shouts (Warriors, Guardians, and Rangers), Necromancer is also tanky and is lacking shouts. Again it could go to the Revenant too but Roy said they are a dark knight-ish archetypal profession and usually those guys are lone wolves.

Hard for the Rev to get a new set of utility skills; their elite spec will likely introduce a new Legend rather than give them a straight utility choice. Now, that legend could be a Legend that offers its channelers six utility shouts, but outside Adelbern I don’t recall anyone in GW1 who spent their entire lives screaming at people. And Adelbern’s out because he’s a jackwad ghost in AC story.

Assuming that elite specs don’t double up on utility skill types, that leaves Warrs, Guards, and Rangers out. I can’t really conceive of a Thief permutation which would appreciate bellowing its face off. Stealth and yodeling just don’t mesh. Chronomancers do wells. So that does indeed leave Tempests, Siegemasters, or whatever the Necromancer ends up being, and frankly a case can be made for all three.

As for not wanting shouts on a NecroBanshee? We’re talking about screaming at your enemy’s soul. Frankly I could easily see an elite Banshee shout being something like…:

Howl from Beyond
“Unleash a scream from beyond the grave to rip at your enemies’ souls, Stunning them and making them Vulnerable. Regain life force for each target struck.” (2s Stun, 25 Vuln@10s, 20% life force per target. Moderate-heavy AoE damage)

Yeah. Scream at your enemies so hard their souls shatter, leaving them paralyzed for a couple of seconds whole you hoover up the wreckage, and also they’re maxed-out Vulnerable to you cutting them into ribroasts with your death-powered greatsword.

‘Shouts’ doesn’t have to mean mostly passive boon application for your group. Shouts just mean that somebody’s being loud. Banshees are as loud as it gets, eh?

Foefaller.1082:

You got to think of Necro shouts -especially any possible support shouts- not as uplifting things like “For Great Justice!” or “Hold the Line!” but more forceful, like an order from a totalitarian leader or a bad boss, with a bit of a sadistic bent. Not the reclusive Necromancer that plys in dark, forbidden secrets away from unwanted eyes, but the megalomaniacal Necromancer that’s raised a zombie army to take over the world; Sometimes you just need minions that still have a pulse.

Possible shouts might be something like “Make Them Suffer!”, “Inflict Pain!” or “Fight On You Fools!” or for some legacy GW1 shout names, “Coward!” “You are All Weaklings!” and Varesh’s “Enemies Must Die!”

This sounds cool. I like this. It’d have synergy with minions too if support shouts apply to them. (and they should)

As for the other classes, I can see “arcane” shouts on the Tempest, but it seems kind of unnecessary, and I can see the logic of an Engie siegemaster with shouts, but I don’t want it. Getting Hammer + Shouts? You’d be multi-classing Engie into warrior at that point.

Also, while several people have pointed out Thief shouts makes no sense, I could see it if the specialization is “Pirate” or “Gunslinger” rather than a sniper or assassin. A specialization with less emphasis on stealth, and a different angle on dueling and trickery than a mesmer. Shouts would then be “make my day” style taunts to affect enemies.

Not seeing it, shouts are a possibility, and a banshee style specialization would be a great place for them. But we already know the class is getting a greatsword, which would lend itself better to a more brutally themed specialization.

The necro shouts/banshee connection is very clever. I hope they notice this thread.

Dude. Have you seen banshees? Do you Celtic myth, broh? o_O

A screeching light-armor death maiden with a greatsword in hand rending her enemy’s souls with her unearthly voice before rending their flesh with her totally-earthly claymore? Yeah, that fits right in, and is also about as brutal as it gets. In fact the more I think about it the more intensely depressed I’m going to be when it doesn’t happen, because it sounds amazing.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Dude. Have you seen banshees? Do you Celtic myth, broh? o_O

A screeching light-armor death maiden with a greatsword in hand rending her enemy’s souls with her unearthly voice before rending their flesh with her totally-earthly claymore? Yeah, that fits right in, and is also about as brutal as it gets. In fact the more I think about it the more intensely depressed I’m going to be when it doesn’t happen, because it sounds amazing.

Obsessive lifelong irish ancestry, british history, and mythology nerd here. I’ve read more celtic myth alone than most people these days have read at all.

And if you want to get specific, the original Ban Si just meant Matron of the Mounds, Si (pronounced She) meaning mound, coming from the Aos Si (ae-she), the people of the mounds and the the original Celtic name for the mythological race of Ireland, so named because they made their realm under the earth after mankind took the surface. These people became known during the Christianization period as the Fae, the name taken from (barely) similar myths from the french. And the legendary figures of celtic mythology, such as the banshee, retooled to fit christian ideals such as death being the undesirable result of sin, instead of a part of life as the pagans taught. In fact undead are hardly even touched upon in Celtic myth, and are actually mostly featured in Germanic and Norse myth.

But even if you want to talk post-christianization after the undead influences took hold, then that still doesn’t fit. When have you ever seen a banshee wielding some kind of giant weapon? Not in any mythos or universe I know of, weapons are just not what they are known for, most of all the largest most gaudy, compensatory, distracting weapon one can imagine. I suppose it would have been better said, something more ‘subtle’, than something less brutal, not because banshees aren’t brutal or are particularly subtle, they are death wailing grief-addled undead after all, but because the focus of a banshee should be on their voice, and a giant honking boat paddle some lunkhead mistook for a sword would distract from that.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Dude. Have you seen banshees? Do you Celtic myth, broh? o_O

A screeching light-armor death maiden with a greatsword in hand rending her enemy’s souls with her unearthly voice before rending their flesh with her totally-earthly claymore? Yeah, that fits right in, and is also about as brutal as it gets. In fact the more I think about it the more intensely depressed I’m going to be when it doesn’t happen, because it sounds amazing.

On the one hand, I like that imagery, on the other hand, without more information regarding the Necro specialization, I worry that, if we do have the specialization that provides shouts, that we won’t get much more than party buffs which, while useful, would end up being a little boring.

Of course, it’s still possible that we will not be the class that gets shouts or that my concerns will turn out to be unfounded. Until I know more, I remain cautiously optimistic. Whatever happens: at least we’re getting a greatsword.

Well, let’s look at it from another direction. What sort of skills might Necromancers pick up?

Looking at this list right here and going down it…

Transforms - while a spec dealing heavily with transform skills would be interesting, it doesn’t seem very Necro-ish. That and it steps on the Kitgineer’s toes to some extent and would be a hassle to deal with.

Traps - Uhh…Marks. Moving on.

Guard Stuff - Consecrations seem…odd…for a black-magic caster, though black mages have often done inverted consecrations so maybe. Though, wouldn’t inverted Consecrations be Corruptions? Maybe that’s just me. Just seems…weird. Meditations are in the same boat, and Spirit weapons and Symbols step on minions and marks respectively. Tomes…yeahlolno, and Wards are a definite Guard exclusive. Nothing here really worth mentioning.

Warrior Stuff - Banners don’t really seem like a necromancer sort of thing, and frankly they’re not the sort of skill one centers a build around. Sure, one or two, but a barful of banners sounds like butt. Physical skills are just not going to transfer to Necromancer and I don’t care that they have greatswords, though that one comment by Marjory about Rox ‘teaching her the stances’ means stances might well be on the table. That could potentially be interesting if done right, though not nearly as awesome as a Banshee.

Engineer Stuff - …yeah, not happening.

Ranger Stuff - Spirits seem like they could be an idea, hearken back to the old GW1 Ritualists, but Ritualists did not, as a general rule, run around with two-handed greatswords. Besides, Spirits are bad and uninteresting on Rangers – why port bad an uninteresting to an elite spec? Survival skills don’t fit the Necromancer’s theme at all, and I think the forums would just erupt into open revolt if the necromancer’s elite spec had a Ranger-style pet, so…yeah.

Thief Stuff - Exempting dual-wields and stealth skills leaves us Deceptions, Tricks, and Venoms. Deceptions and Tricks are things ArenaNet did in order to group Thief utilities into traitable bundles and have no real identity or unifying nature, so they’re out. Venoms, on the other hand, could be semi-intriguing. Sure, the Thief’s venoms stink, but that doesn’t mean someone else’s have to as well. The greatsword Necromancer might well be a decent choice for experimenting with potent necrotic venoms, though frankly I’m not sure how that’s a build niche Scepter doesn’t cover. We’d have to see how that goes, but I don’t really think it’s likely. Venoms are another skill which are kinda bad and uninteresting on their original class and need work there before they get ported out to an elite spec.

Elementalist Stuff - Ignoring for the moment that giving Necromancers any category of Ele skills would result in Eles shrieking louder than Banshees…Arcane is out, as the Elementalist is the accepted mastery of outright wizardry and direct manipulation of the aethereal. I would’ve expected Massmores to get Arcane skills before Necromancers did, and they may yet do just that in a future Elite spec, but the sources Necromancers draw power from don’t lend themselves to ‘raw, non-elemental energy’. Cantrips…hmm. I don’t see a specific reason why not, except that nobody likes them and they only get used as traited defensive spells and stunbreaks. Conjures would be weird, especially since Elite specs are generally supposed to focus on their new weapon as much as their new skills and conjures would get in the way of that. Glyphs are tied too closely to attunement swaps to really be glyphs on anything else.

Mesmer Stuff - Turnabout is fair play! Chronomancers get wells, let’s see if there’s anything the Massmore can contribute Necromancy’s way. CLones/phantasms are right out, and both glamours and manipulations have the same issues Deceptions/Tricks do where they’re basically arbitrary categories for traits to deal with and don’t really have a unifying theme to run with. That leaves Mantras, and while Mantras are an interesting category choice on Massmores, a greatsword Necromancer is almost assuredly going to be melee-range since only Massmores are silly enough to snipe with swords. Mantras are…weird…in melee range. I don’t particularly like the notion of locking myself into a three-second cast in punching distance of the baddites. Not only does it feel kinda wildly unsafe, it seems clunky and flow-breaking to boot. How many MH Sword Mantra Massmores are out there, anyways?

(stupid character limits…)

In Summation - Marjory’s comments towards learning the stances for her new greatsword lead me to believe that we could be seeing a stance-based death knight sort of thing, which could be interesting but wouldn’t do a dang thing to solve the Necromancer’s whole selfishness issue in PvE unless they were some really whacky stances. Of the remaining skill types, relatively few fit a melee Necromancer-y sort of feel. Venoms are a possibility but would be a disappointing such possibility, Spirits would help solve the whole selfishness issue and also be a callout to Ritualists, but Spirits are in a bad place right now as it is, and relatively little else is of use.

I honestly think there could be a strong case for Shouts on the Necromancer elite spec. Necromancers need some manner of party support, even if it’s just actually-effective ‘debuff the enemies!’ offensive support, and the notion of a wailing Banshee carving people up with a claymore is just too awesome not to do. That and I think stances might well fit better on the Tempest. The name implies a very volatile, active combat style, and stances which synergized with attunements could be a pretty sweet thing to see. Even if it’d start getting into SC Maxi levels of “okay, Stance A leads into Stutter B, which can go into either Stance C or Follow-up D, depending on whether I do E or F…”

…anyways. Gripton of words aside…there you go. I’m going to go sleep now. G’night.

Shadow Knights had Scream skills so i dont see why Necromancer elite specialization cant have that as well.

Knighthonor.4061:

Shadow Knights had Scream skills so i dont see why Necromancer elite specialization cant have that as well.

It’s not that they can’t have it. It’s just a small amount of people wish it could be something else lol. Elixirs could be pretty cool. What necromancer doesn’t also dabble in alchemy for the most part :P

I still support idea of vampire spec for necro
Idea here is reworked DS that is no longer health bar only “blood/energy” bar that allow vampire go to this new form. All DS skills reworked for melle atacks with heavy lifesteal.
Now you can say lifesteal OP but another idea here is that vampire will constantly loose health if in vampiric form so lifestill is a way to sustain yourself.
Only problem is new weapon coz best would be daggers and necro already got that :P

I think a banshee with shouts is a really awesome idea. Shouts, if done well, could solve a lot of necro problems in pvp. Instant cast heal? Awesome. Short cooldown elite, that isn’t instantly countered by any Mesmer waiting to see it? Also awesome. Potential for group support, or powerful debuffs? Sounds great to me. Shouts seem to work well enough in pve and shoutbow is a powerful spec right now in pvp. Plus shouts could work for power and condi

If it’s done well, it could be amazing.

But for pvp at least, you could see power necros with new F skills, a whole new weapon, a new trait line, and a couple new utility bar skills. The potential is there.

Siva Mira.3546:

Shout #2: “What’s yours is mine!”
Steals all boons from nearby allies.

Drensky.9567:

“Save myself!”

Steal boons from allies and gives all your conditions to all of them. Breaks stun, gives 1 hour swiftness to you. Your allies gain 1 hour duration of all conditions they get from this skill and they also get 1 hour duration of chill, immobilize, and cripple.

I would love shouts like this /no sarcasm.

Banshee with agony. YES! YES! YES!